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110%er [5977]
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I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired.
Jun 1, 2014, 2:52 AM
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Some of you I think dislike Jake more than you love Clemson baseball. If the truth be told all Clemson baseball fans have a hand in the fall of Clemson baseball.
Clemson baseball verses South Carolina baseball the series with the gamecocks was very even if anything favored the Tigers until the gamecocks broke ground on a 36M Carolina Stadium. If you haven't been there it's a beautiful ballpark I've been four times only to see my Tigers get beat. If you don't think that had a hand in the rise of the gamecocks baseball program then you aren't being honest or you just don't understand how big a difference there is between Carolina Stadium and Doug Kingsmore.
Clemson has a beautiful setting for it's baseball stadium I think the best in the nation and Clemson should honor it with a world class ballpark. I think Clemson it's fans who have the funds have failed Clemson baseball. We shouldn't hold back funds based on the coach of the day.
Look at the ACC UVA was about to shut down it's baseball program until a famous writer gave millions to upgrade it's ballpark and save the program. Since that day UVA has been a power. Clemson once got elite players out of Virginia.
UNC baseball invested millions in upgrading it's ballpark and since has made it to several championship games in the CWS. Clemson use to get elite players out of North Carolina.
I'm not saying Jack doesn't shoulder part of the blame of course he does he is the Head Coach. I think he should do more to promote the program and fund raise. There is a retirement community near Clemson on a lake that has lots of people with more money than they can ever spend he has never reached out to them. Clemson baseball should be the biggest show in town from April until June and Jack should make that happen.
Clemson should take that beautiful setting and put a world class ballpark on that site. I blame the former AD Robinson he was the most useless AD in Clemson history!!! just look at LJ under his watch, what he wanted to do with Death Valley, how bad the football practice fields got under his watch. They weren't even regulation length and width. The major upgrades happened under Robinson. The site has so much potential with someone in charge with vision.
I think it's up to all Clemson fans who love Clemson baseball to demand that the AD invest in Clemson baseball no matter who the coach is in the future. When Clemson got beat by South Carolina 56-20 in football in the 1970's Clemson fans said never again and rallied to make sure it didn't happen again and that was the spark that lead to the 1981 NC. It's now time to do the same for baseball. I will say this Jack isn't a bad coach if he was Bill would have never hand picked him as his replacement. If it's time for him to go them he will go if not support Clemson baseball and give Clemson baseball the best in the nation,
I know some of you will say none of the investments matter and that is your right, but I only ask you to look at Clemson Football. Without the upgrades to Death Valley and the overall football program we wouldn't have had three straight 10 plus win season and we wouldn't have the nations #2 recruiting class. Clemson baseball can be great again, but it will take more than the baseball coach.
Go Tigers.
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110%er [6768]
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I'd like to see Jack not waste his time on magic beans.
Jun 1, 2014, 3:13 AM
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?
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110%er [5977]
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Well I have no idea what you're talking about
Jun 1, 2014, 3:23 AM
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maybe you were trying to be funny. I have was trying to be serious. If you only want to make funny comments then I guess you really don't care about Clemson baseball.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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facilities are definitely NOT the problem
Jun 1, 2014, 8:26 AM
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We are a top 15 facility but are playing top 60 baseball. I guess Xavier and liberty have much nicer facilities? What about MD? I've been to uvas stadium and it very much meh even though it is new. Clemson's is much nicer if you ask me.
Besides facilities don't teach fielding and hitting and small ball.
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Athletic Dir [899]
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Re: facilities are definitely NOT the problem
Jun 1, 2014, 9:26 AM
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Stadium is fine for fans. It's the amenities for the players that are sorely lacking....hence the push for new locker rooms, etc. Ours currently suck.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: facilities are definitely NOT the problem
Jun 1, 2014, 9:43 AM
[ in reply to facilities are definitely NOT the problem ] |
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Facilities are not exclusively the stadium and are not measured by attendance. We are NOT remotely a top 15 team in baseball facilities. We may be one of the only teams to get an at large bid to the NCAA tournament without dedicated weight room / training facilities for our baseball team.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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im not sure what our locker room looks like but their
Jun 1, 2014, 9:58 AM
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Weight room is literally 15 steps from the stadium and a #### good one. A dedicated weight room would be a waste I'm. Now locker and lounge rooms I could agree with.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: im not sure what our locker room looks like but their
Jun 1, 2014, 10:11 AM
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You and I might think its a waste but unfortunately, as you see with the ridiculous excess in football facilities, it's about what sways the recruits, I've had the opportunity to go inside the facilities at Carolina Stadium and there is simply no comparison. If we're gonna apply what we think is reasonable or excessive to our decision on team sports then we are going to lose our battles with South Carolina. Because they have a President and an AD who see the Athletic department as the "front porch" (Pastides' words) and are willing to spend whatever it takes.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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it looks like we're addressing the locker rooms and lounge
Jun 1, 2014, 10:15 AM
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This yr
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Legend [16902]
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Re: it looks like we're addressing the locker rooms and lounge
Jun 1, 2014, 1:24 PM
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Yes, so shouldn't Jack have the opportunity to recruit and train with said facilities.
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110%er [5915]
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Legend [16902]
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Re: facilities are definitely NOT the problem
Jun 1, 2014, 1:23 PM
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So because it is happening in the future means that their absence during SCar's rise to power had no significance. We should run the most successful coach on campus out of town before he's even has one season with new facilities or the use of the academic common market to help him?
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CU Guru [1620]
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Re: I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired.
Jun 1, 2014, 3:55 AM
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Great points! Was too young I guess to realize the Bobby Robinson fiasco..What were his plans for Death Valley?
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CU Medallion [57079]
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110%er [7191]
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Re: I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired.
Jun 1, 2014, 5:59 AM
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First off,I do not want to see Jack fired,but something has to change.
And you make some good points about our facilities( Kingsmore was opened in 1970 and renovated in 2002).
However you are misleading people by saying that Carolina Stadium is the difference in the two programs.
Carolina Stadium was opened in 2009,but the Gamecock program was allready prominent in college baseball.
Under Ray Tanner(1997-2012 16 seasons),the Gamecocks went to 6 CWS,had 14 straight NCAA appearances,10 Super Regionals,had 14 40 game winning seasons and 5 50 win seasons.
They were also one of the most dominating teams ,having won more games than any other D-1 team(from 2000-2004)and from 2000 to 2009 went 468-201.They also dominated SEC play(179-120).
And while it is true that the coots have dominated lately,South Carolina isn't the only team we face every year,and while I can't say for certain,I would say that not all of our competition plays in nice new shinny facilities like Carolina Stadium.
The problem however,is that Clemson baseball has been in a decline since 2010,our last CWS appearance,and no matter how you sugarcoat it,Carolina is only part of the problem,not the whole problem.
And building a new stadium won't change things if you can't recruit players who can do the fundamentials like pitch,catch,throw,hit( and hit with power),and whose coaching staff can't recruit depth( 2 starting pitchers won't get you far ,especially in post season.
Clemson baseball may need a new stadium,but they just may need new blood in the coaching staff as well.
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Commissioner [941]
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Baseball is %50 physical and %50 mental
Jun 1, 2014, 8:05 AM
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The chickens are just in our heads right now. That is the big problem. The season was lost after the series with them at the beginning of the year. Until things like that can be erased from memory and move on, there will be bad seasons. And that is the coaches job more than anything. MOVE ON guys. He can't convince them of that, so maybe it is time for him to move on.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired.
Jun 1, 2014, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired. ] |
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You're conveniently skipping the fact the Carolina baseball hadn't been to Omaha in 5 years and Ray was very much on the hot seat with fans for part of that 2010 season. Particularly after the beating they took from us at home that year. And, impact of the stadium reaches back prior to 2009 - when it opened. They broke ground in 2007. For those two years Ray took concept drawings and promised recruits the best collegiate facility in the country. That's two recruiting cycles before the opened the stadium. The second season after they did open the stadium, four full recruiting cycles after Ray Tanner had his $36 million palace to sell to recruit is it really just coincidence that they won two titles and played for a third. And, of course, this has had a negative effect on our program. To try and minimize the significance of Carolina Stadium to our struggles is to completely misunderstand the problem, which means no improvement will ever be in sight.
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110%er [5436]
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CU Guru [1250]
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I think that you are grasping for easy excuses
Jun 1, 2014, 6:16 AM
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and do not want to deal with reality. The quality of stadiums has nothing to do with mental toughness or desire.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Comes down to two things,Baseball and the kids have
Jun 1, 2014, 8:06 AM
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changed,and Jack has not.
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All-In [25963]
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Re: Comes down to two things,Baseball and the kids have
Jun 1, 2014, 9:16 AM
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That all may be true but this is true also, The Coots had 6,000 at the ballgame last night. If your math is correct, that is 24,000 empty seats. Just proves that the old saying , "If you build it, they will come" is not always true.
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Athletic Dir [899]
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Re: Comes down to two things,Baseball and the kids have
Jun 1, 2014, 9:29 AM
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the stadium cost 36 million...it does not seat 30,000.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Comes down to two things,Baseball and the kids have
Jun 1, 2014, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to Comes down to two things,Baseball and the kids have ] |
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Yes, time has changed. Schools are now investing millions of dollars into baseball and prioritizing it as a sport. Jack continues to coach a University that refuses to be serious about sports not named football and apparently has an online fanbase not able to use any problem solving or critical thinking - just scream "fire coach" whenever it doesn't look good.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired.
Jun 1, 2014, 9:19 AM
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You make some excellent point but if you think Jack will change remeber the story of the rattlesnack who, after promising not to bite the man, proceeded to bite the man and then said: I am a rattlesnake you know.
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All-In [36450]
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Re: I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired.
Jun 1, 2014, 9:43 AM
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Who's Jake?
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CU Guru [1838]
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He's that country singers dog. You gotta feed him***
Jun 1, 2014, 10:00 AM
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110%er [6937]
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Re:You are right. I would like to see him fired.***
Jun 1, 2014, 10:11 AM
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CU Guru [1346]
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My big problem is Leggett is just criticizing critcs
Jun 1, 2014, 10:12 AM
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right now. To say the team didn't gel and to not take any blame yet is not a very good sign. What optimism is he giving any fan right now?
And were the facilities better in 1994 or 1995? 2000? Those were much better years than the last 3 or 4.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: My big problem is Leggett is just criticizing critcs
Jun 1, 2014, 1:53 PM
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It's a matter of relativity. Yes, from 1994 to 2000 and beyond we had better or equal facilities to primary competition. Our most direct rival broke ground on Carolina Stadium in 2007. Boshamer stadium (UNC) was rebuilt in 2007 - George Stejnbrenner's spent $1 million on the courtyard alone (more than the initial cost of Doug Kingsmore). UVA has made constant improvements (significant, real improvements - not a few new chairbacks) since 2002. It is not a coincidence that our "struggles" (we have still remained more successful than most programs. I really don't know how to look up how many teams have made the post season 20 of the last 21 years but it isn't many) began when SCar went all in on baseball.
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MVP [533]
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So upgrades are why we recruit so well? What about
Jun 1, 2014, 10:53 AM
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Dabo and Co?
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Legend [16902]
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Re: So upgrades are why we recruit so well? What about
Jun 1, 2014, 1:56 PM
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What about them? Facilities was the one lasting benefit Tommy Bowden left behind and Dabo has maintained pressure on the admin. Are you unaware of the new indoor training facility or the recruiting lounge that is currently under construction. It might be a zero sum game, but if you want to compete in collegiate athletics facilities is the name of the game.
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Mascot [24]
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Re: I know a lot of you would like to see Jack fired.
Jun 1, 2014, 12:58 PM
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USC went from 21 'ill ion in debt to 131 million in debt due to baseball and football expenses
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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TDP was AD for a good period of time...
Jun 1, 2014, 2:23 PM
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so TDP has plenty of blame to take, since all the facilities upgrades at those other schools happened while TDP was AD.
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CU Guru [1065]
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Re: TDP was AD for a good period of time...
Jun 1, 2014, 2:51 PM
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TDP was a terrible AD and we are still paying for his mistakes.
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Head Coach [759]
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Need those donations to cover declining ticket sales
Jun 1, 2014, 3:19 PM
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Now is not the time to ask for fans to invest. The fact that fans are investing less is a symptom of the problem, not the source of it.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Need those donations to cover declining ticket sales
Jun 1, 2014, 3:24 PM
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very well said.. I have bought my last ticket until JACK IS GONE!!
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