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YOUR BALANCE
All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…
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All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 7:45 AM

Let me ask you, because the day is coming:

Would you blindly support a player that opts out of a playoff game?

Millions of dollars in the NFL on the line… All they get if they win is a tacky ring and some bowl swag…

I’m not debating a players right to make whatever decision they feel is best. But if an IPTAY donor wants to criticize it, then I say that’s fair game.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 7:52 AM

If a player decides to go ahead and prepare for his career rather than play in the Playoff, then that's a business decision he has to make. I won't criticize it.

I think he will regret not having the memories of being there, especially if the team ends up winning the Natty. But each man has to decide what's best for his career to put food on the table. You won't hear any gripe from me about it.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 7:58 AM

So personally “preparing “ for the NFL is superior to prepping with a top 4 college team? This is horse hockey that started with the Mcaffrey dude.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:01 AM

That's up to the individual if it's better or not. There's plenty to do to get ready for the NFL outside of getting reps on the field. That's each man's decision to make.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 10:44 PM [ in reply to Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games… ]

Mogambu® said:

So personally “preparing “ for the NFL is superior to prepping with a top 4 college team? This is horse hockey that started with the Mcaffrey dude.




Which pays more?

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 16, 2022, 12:22 AM [ in reply to Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games… ]

Mogambu® said:

So personally “preparing “ for the NFL is superior to prepping with a top 4 college team? This is horse hockey that started with the Mcaffrey dude.



My families well being is more important than any football game....period

If I'm in position to secure financial support for the next 2 or 3 generations of my family and playing in the college football playoffs may stop me from being able to do that.....then I'm sorry, I'm opting out...

Family first
Team 2nd

Every time

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Yes***


Dec 15, 2022, 7:52 AM



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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 7:59 AM

Almost all draft level ability players will have an insurance policy in place in the slight case of an injury does occur. They won't leave Clemson penniless if they go undrafted. Personally I think it's a selfish move to sit out on your team but that is how society has changed and I guess I just didn't go along with this change.

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For the top players, those insurance policies don’t come close


Dec 15, 2022, 8:09 AM

to what they would have made in the draft. That Notre dame player lost out on >$10M and his insurance paid him $850k.

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Re: For the top players, those insurance policies don’t come close


Dec 15, 2022, 8:42 AM

This is true but someone in a prior post made reference to being able to put food on the table. I believe $850k should put plenty of food on the table. I understand it’s not $10MM but it’s also not poverty. This is also why Dabo puts an emphasis on guys getting their degrees. They could get hurt at any time. But to think a guy with a degree and $850k in the bank right out of college isn’t still in pretty good shape is ridiculous to me. There was a pro player that said something like that a few years ago. He wasn’t getting the contract increase he wanted and said he couldn’t even feed his kids for the several million $ a year they were offering. Yea. He may have lost a lot but he still has a lot.

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Re: For the top players, those insurance policies don’t come close


Dec 15, 2022, 8:54 AM

So you would stay at a job making the bare amount to put food on the table over a job with significant increase to stick around your friends?

Of course you wouldn’t. You don’t risk millions of dollars for 800k simply because it puts food on the table.

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Re: For the top players, those insurance policies don’t come close


Dec 15, 2022, 10:45 AM

You are vastly oversimplifying this. There is risk but you make it sound like being injured is a certainty if he plays. He’s already taken that same risk 13 times this year. Why is this game different?

Comparing the scenario of a job that barely puts food on the table vs a higher paying job to receiving either of those amounts ($10MM or $800k) as a 20-something recent graduate is apples to oranges.

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I’m not risking $10M+ for a guaranteed $850k and an Orange


Dec 15, 2022, 10:41 AM [ in reply to Re: For the top players, those insurance policies don’t come close ]

Bowl.

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I’m not risking $10M+ for a guaranteed $850k and an Orange


Dec 15, 2022, 10:51 AM [ in reply to Re: For the top players, those insurance policies don’t come close ]

Bowl.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:01 AM

I have zero problem if anyone posts their opinion. It's an opinion/discussion board. I 100% don't like it. I have the utmost respect for the kids who play for our military institutions. They made a commitment that restores order whether they become famous or not.

This opting out is just the first step. Some already have started checking out for the season. This only leads to the next logical solution. NFL farm systems independent of college...which some already want. So yeah, I hate it. Despise it.

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I won’t be thrilled about it, but I’m not going to blame


Dec 15, 2022, 8:20 AM

the player for making the best decision for him. It may hurt his draft stock to not get the exposure and another opportunity to prove himself against another top-level team. But if he has weighed all of that and feels it’s best for him to sit out, I have no issue with that decision.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:27 AM

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter whether fans are ok with opt outs or not. Sit down one down and start a list of things that have changed in your life and after about 24 hours you will give up and realize things change. College sports exist because people turn their televisions on, go to games, buy merchandise and donate to schools. As long as we support the end, the means are out of our control so accept it or turn the tv off.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 9:16 AM

It will matter when enough fans stop buying tickets and watching the games.

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Thanks to TV money, buying tickets is no longer...


Dec 15, 2022, 9:49 AM

necessary to make the game successful. Also thanks to TV money, the game is approaching unwatchable due to the number of commercial breaks. Nothing quite like the excitement of a score+PAT, then a commercial break. Kick-off, then a commercial break. They are killing the goose that laid the golden eggs!

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 10:29 AM [ in reply to Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games… ]

Yeah, like that is going to happen. Dude, think.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:17 PM

I am. Apparently you aren't.

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Two different perspectives:


Dec 15, 2022, 8:32 AM

1. From a fan/ team perspective I hate it! If you commit to a team, it’s for the duration of the season in its entirety.
2. From a player and business decision perspective, if I’ve finished the regular season, I’ve played and practiced faithfully and consistently for at least 3 yrs and a legit NFL prospect, I don’t want to risk losing millions of dollars due to injury.

How a coach handles this will effect said player being an ambassador/ contributor in the future. All said, I think you have to support the player. None of us are in his shoes.

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Re: Two different perspectives:


Dec 15, 2022, 8:39 AM

Ok, but where do you draw the line?
After what game should he pack it in? Why this line?
If Clemson was playing final game for natty - should he play? Same probability of injury and absolutely no financial gain.
Semi finals?
Conf championship?
Against SC?
Louisville?
BC?
Should he have sat out the OOC games?
Should he have not played this entire season and simply trained?

Where do you draw the line?
Injuries can happen at any time. Deshaun I believe did his knee in practice. Murray just blew his out on TV and it was non contact.

I get if he was Simpson fighting an injury. But, not a healthy scratch. JMO anyway.

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I’m fine with the player drawing the line wherever he wants to.


Dec 15, 2022, 10:25 AM

If he thinks after game 3 that he can’t improve his draft stock anymore, and there’s no upside and only downside to continuing playing (or is not willing to risk the downside to get more upside) and wants to sit the rest of the season out, by all means go for. That’s his decision, I’m not going to criticize it. When tens of millions of dollars are at stake for the player, I won’t blame him one bit for choosing the path he thinks best gets him there.

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I don't get the blindly reference.


Dec 15, 2022, 8:42 AM

People can get upset if someone opts out or chose not to. I don't think it has anything to do with being blind to what we'd rather happen as fans.

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Ok, 20 year old kids make bad decisions all the time


Dec 15, 2022, 9:09 AM

I hear all these folks spouting the same platitude:

“It’s the right decision for him”

“I’m not going to question him, it’s his life/career”

“I support whatever his decision is because I want whatever he wants”

Fine, I get it. But that’s a blind and unprincipled stance.

I would have a ton of respect for the person that stood up and said: “yeah, it’s a selfish act and he’s letting his teammates down, but I’d do the same thing”

Also, I was 20 years old once and I remember how many stupid decisions I made that I thought were the “right decision for me”. In fact I would say that most decisions an average 20 year old makes are bad!

I’m glad Dabo doesn’t have weak spine like half of the Clemson fans on this board. Because he told Myles Murphy he is making the wrong decision. Told him he loves him, but that he doesn’t agree with him.

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Re: Ok, 20 year old kids make bad decisions all the time


Dec 15, 2022, 10:17 AM

Believing in the freedom to make one's own choices for their future is one of the principles America was built on. To suggest that it is "blind and unprincipled" is laughable at best.

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It’s not unprincipled, it’s just predicated on principles


Dec 15, 2022, 10:27 AM [ in reply to Ok, 20 year old kids make bad decisions all the time ]

you don’t value as much.

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Re: Ok, 20 year old kids make bad decisions all the time


Dec 15, 2022, 10:30 AM [ in reply to Ok, 20 year old kids make bad decisions all the time ]

Where did Dabo say it is the wrong decision?

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Re: Ok, 20 year old kids make bad decisions all the time


Dec 15, 2022, 10:53 AM

What Dabo said when asked about how he felt about Murphy’s decision was “you can agree to disagree and still love each other”. The implication is that he disagreed with the decision. He did not say it was right or wrong. He did seem disappointed when talking about it.

https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-football/news/watch-dabo-swinney-on-myles-murphy-opting-out-orange-bowl-practice-41444


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Again, you call it blind, but it's an opinion at best.


Dec 15, 2022, 10:50 AM [ in reply to Ok, 20 year old kids make bad decisions all the time ]

One can base their opinion on all the facts and chose to say those same things, but it doesn't make the person blind. You just don't like or agree with their reaction.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:45 AM

Some have to study for those Wonderlic tests...ask Lavar...

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I think OSU's star receiver is opting out but


Dec 15, 2022, 8:46 AM

he was hurt bad last year and most of this season and wasnt very effective in his last outing. But he is their best guy. Kinda of like Ross last season I guess.

While I understand it the players side of it, its still wrong and lame. The kid can do whatever they want but they cut out on their side of the deal early. It warrants crticism and people, especially donors, are well within their right to voice displeasure if they want to. It comes with the decision.

For some reason they are all convinced they will get hurt if they play...not the previous 12 games, but just this one. Has anyone published the data of top round draft picks getting injured in a bowl game? If its happened its extremely rare.

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Re: I think OSU's star receiver is opting out but


Dec 15, 2022, 9:03 AM

Well the bowl game is typically a month or longer after the end of the regular season. That’s a month less to heal from any injuries prior to the draft and thus far the only healthy players to opt out have been in non-CFP games.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:49 AM

I don't have a problem when a player opts out of a regular bowl game, but would not be ok if they opt out of a playoff game.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 9:04 AM

As this is now a business:

Contracts for all commitments.

The contract should include All IN and those who are not willing to commit (injury,portal etc exceptions)
The exceptions can be taken into account for such student athlete employees and violations of
contracts enforced. It is the only way a manager and employee can plan with confidence.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 10:21 AM

This is what I have been waiting and wanting to see.

It's the only way to really marry the freedom of athletes with the freedom of schools to pick people who are committed. Sign contracts for length of stay, number of games, etc. It will let the schools self-regulate the transfer portal without the need for the NCAA. Scholarships, NIL money gained during their time at the university, etc can all be built into the contract to be contingent on their fulfillment of obligations.

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I don’t blame the player one bit.


Dec 15, 2022, 8:56 AM

He is a product of the college football enterprise we fans have all allowed, and at times even encouraged.

We are hypocrites if we blame players for focusing on the money, when we have had no problem with the multibillion dollar TV deals, 8-figure coaching contracts, and multimillion dollar facility upgrades.

It would be great for the players to play purely for the love of the game, and be focused on their academics first and their sport second, while still playing at a high level, but that ship sailed decades ago when more and more money started infiltrating college athletics.

So no, I don’t like a player opting out of a game, and opting out of a playoff game feels even more severe. But I can’t sit here and blame him when he is merely a product of our current system. With millions on the line, he has to think about what’s best for his future.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I don’t blame the player one bit.


Dec 15, 2022, 9:12 AM

Totally agree.

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Re: I don’t blame the player one bit.


Dec 15, 2022, 10:25 AM [ in reply to I don’t blame the player one bit. ]

Well said Judge. I do think there’s prob a lot of fans who, in addition to not liking the player opt outs, also don’t like coaches making these huge bloated salaries and casino like facilities. Lot of fans I talk with agree there’s flat out too much money in college sports. But as you said, that ship sailed long ago and I agree that it’s selective and largely selfish to blame players for looking out for themselves, from a financial perspective, by opting out of bowl games when they’re projected first rounders.

The player is simply managing risk. It’s a smart business decision. Fans may not like it, and the purely selfish part of me doesn’t either. “I wanna beat the Vols!” But I also don't see any Clemson fans (myself included) offering some MD job at a PE firm or equal paying job to bridge the gap in lost NFL dollars if the player plays in a bowl game, gets hurt and only collects on the injury insurance policy. Throwing stones is free. The world isn’t.

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Re: I don’t blame the player one bit.


Dec 15, 2022, 11:07 AM

But he doesn’t “only collect on the injury insurance policy”. He should have a degree and the ability to go out and get a job like all the non-athletes that graduated with him. The difference at that point is that he has an $850k head start on most of them. He may have sustained an injury that ended his football career but he isn’t dead. Far from it, he has a degree and $850k in the bank. Still not bad for a 20-something recent graduate. I would have loved to be in that financial situation when I got out of school. It takes most people a lifetime to build that kind of wealth if they ever get there at all. To your comment, if he has an engineering degree, why wouldn’t you offer him a job? These guys are eventually going to have to face a life after football. Some sooner than others. That is why getting their degree is so important.

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Re: I don’t blame the player one bit.


Dec 15, 2022, 12:43 PM

Valid point on the degree but how many first round NFL picks have engineering degrees? Not many. Not all of these opt outs have their degrees. And the highest paid Clemson undergrads don’t make millions like NFL first rounders do.

The broader point I was trying to make (and may have failed) is, the chance to earn millions in your 20s is life changing if you’re even semi smart about it. Very few get a chance to take advantage of the time value of that kind of money. Engineering job and 850K is very good, sure. But it’s dimes vs dollars compared to the millions you can earn as a first round draft pick. And for what, to play in a bowl game? To OP’s point, I think a playoff game is different now. Chance to win a title is more of a unique life experience. But with 12 teams that novelty will be less in the future. The more college football is a business, the more players will treat it like one. For folks to be mad about the college football system and machine that it is today, I get that. But don’t hate the players because the game is no longer a game.

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Re: I don’t blame the player one bit.


Dec 15, 2022, 10:58 AM [ in reply to I don’t blame the player one bit. ]

I don't get how TV deals and coach salaries have any bearing on college players playing a bowl game or opting out? And facilities, they're provided specifically for the players to use, so that really makes no sense either.

Is it just envy that some adults are making money and not "sharing the wealth"?

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The point is that there is a lot of money in college football today.


Dec 16, 2022, 1:39 AM

It’s not a low budget sport that players and coaches participate in purely for the love of the game. For coaches, it’s a high paying job. For fans, it’s entertainment and bragging rights. For colleges and universities, it’s marketing and alumni relations. And for TV networks, it’s a chance to make big bucks on viewership and advertising.

Players are the key to all of this. Without the players, none of these other entities would have squat. Players are paid big if they make it to the NFL. Why should high draft picks risk injury when they stand to make so much money? Loyalty to team is important, but it shouldn’t be more important than security their future for themselves and their family.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 9:17 AM

I agree that the decision is their’s to make. What they fell is best for their future. However, if they decide to opt out of any game to bolt for the NFL. They should have to pay the school back for that years tuition and fees.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 9:21 AM

Once a Tiger always a Tiger and I wish them all the best in the future and thank them for their service to Clemson, no matter how long or short it was. As long as they kept their noses clean and didn't harm the brand while they were there, I'm good.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 AM

I would rather see a player opt out rather than loaf his way through the game, as we saw one player do repeatedly this season, and have seen others do it, even in championship games. Just quit already if you don't have your heart in it. You hurt the entire team if you are not all in.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 10:58 AM



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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 10:58 AM

It’s their decision but when football is over have fun in the real world that’s not going to cater to what you want or feel like doing

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Opting out of bowl games or playoff games is no longer


Dec 15, 2022, 1:26 PM

a big deal. NIL has given every player a reason to be more focused on the $. No loyalty, except to the $$. That's what the NCAA, the conferences and the TV folks are loyal to, so why not.

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Players, fans & supporters should be able to opt out at any time...


Dec 15, 2022, 8:21 PM

Players don't give a crap, neither should we. Seems pretty simple. I've already started opting out myself, to be honest.

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A drunk will run a STOP sign, but a stoner will wait for it to turn green.


Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:31 PM

Now it is becoming all about the money.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 8:44 PM

Interesting how Jaylon Smith and Jake Butt both say that they would play in Their bowl game again. Interesting read
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/06/jaylon-smith-jake-butt-skipping-bowl-games-injuries-draft-mccaffrey-fournette


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I wouldn't like it, but I still support their ability


Dec 15, 2022, 9:05 PM

to make that choice.

> Millions of dollars in the NFL on the line… All they get if they win is a tacky ring and some bowl swag…

I love Clemson Football, but given the choice between a championship and millions of dollars… I'm taking the money every time, so I can't blame a kid for doing the same.

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Yes


Dec 15, 2022, 10:29 PM

I'm a pragmatist. I understand some would claim they would risk generational family wealth to play in one meaningless college football game that few will remember in two years. But I believe 99% if faced with that personal decision would take the $20 million vs. playing and risking most of it for a non-playoff game. I certainly would. And most of these young men with Communications degrees who do not make the NFL cut will not have close to the same opportunities as Petroleum Engineering majors.

If memory serves, Dabo and Clemson fans were on board supporting Brent Venables & Tony Elliott departing last year prior to the 2021 non-playoff bowl game for less money than NFL lottery picks will earn -- and these coaches had no risk of injury. There was not a peep of dissent -- just well meaning congratulations all the way around as there should have been. It seems like a double standard is at work.

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No, I wouldn’t.


Dec 15, 2022, 10:35 PM

I support players choosing not to participate in cash grab exhibition games (aka all non playoff bowl games).

As soon as the playoffs were created, only 4 teams “seasons” extended beyond the conference championships. Non playoff bowls may as well be preseason games and should be treated as such. If you don’t see that now, wait until the expansion. If the establishment wanted to continue to have bowl games mean something they should have limited them.

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Re: All of you that are cool with players opting out of bowl games…


Dec 15, 2022, 10:54 PM

Yes.

If the sponsors of the playoff games want to offer generous NIL deals to the players who participate in these games, in order to get the participation of most of the top players, I would welcome that.

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Sure, so long as they also support fans opting out as well***


Dec 16, 2022, 3:23 AM



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J. Marc Edwards
Cary, NC


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