Replies: 49
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All-TigerNet [11469]
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how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 2:55 PM
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fans??? just curious if the results are of those that want Brad back who really like the sport and watch a lot on TV and love the game. I know FuureDoc is a big Brad Brownell fan and likes the sport a lot, but anyone like basketball a lot and want Clemson to be more of factor? or are those way more football fans and just want to keep Brad because we don't stink and basketball is what it is?
I am huge fan and keep up with the sport on tv and news which I have mentioned
If Clemson keeps Brad and things stay the same I still will watch the game because it is exciting. I love March Madness and it's my favorite time of the year.
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110%er [7971]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 3:02 PM
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fans??? just curious if the results are of those that want Brad back who really like the sport and watch a lot on TV and love the game. I know FuureDoc is a big Brad Brownell fan and likes the sport a lot, but anyone like basketball a lot and want Clemson to be more of factor? or are those way more football fans and just want to keep Brad because we don't stink and basketball is what it is?
I am huge fan and keep up with the sport on tv and news which I have mentioned
If Clemson keeps Brad and things stay the same I still will watch the game because it is exciting. I love March Madness and it's my favorite time of the year.
How many fans who want him to leave without any other change to the program are complete uninformed morons with no understanding of the history of Clemson basketball or what is required to turnaround a program?
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All-TigerNet [11469]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 3:04 PM
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that wasn't my question, but thank you for playing...
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110%er [7971]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:15 PM
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that wasn't my question, but thank you for playing...
I thought this thread was for asking stupid questions based on your original post. Sorry i misinterpreted
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:18 PM
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He posted a detailed question.....you gave a stupid answer.
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110%er [7971]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:49 PM
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He posted a detailed question.....you gave a stupid answer.
Actually i also asked a detailed question as i was very specific. Guessing reading comprehension is not your strong point...
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:27 PM
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So your answer was a question but I’m the one with reading comprehension issues?
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CU Medallion [64546]
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March Madness is awesome...
Mar 3, 2022, 3:15 PM
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but it would be even better if Clemson were a part of it more than three times every twelve years.
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Legend [16132]
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How many times did we go in the 12 years prior to his tenure***
Mar 3, 2022, 3:41 PM
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CU Medallion [64546]
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OP took us to 3 during his seven-year tenure...
Mar 3, 2022, 4:25 PM
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Shyatt was great big goose egg during his five year tenure, and Barnes took us 3 times in four years.
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Legend [16132]
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So 3 then?***
Mar 3, 2022, 11:08 PM
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CU Medallion [64546]
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And explains, at least in part, why Shyatt was fired***
Mar 4, 2022, 2:19 PM
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Legend [19549]
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110%er [7971]
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Re: How many times did we go in the 12 years prior to his tenure***
Mar 4, 2022, 8:16 AM
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So, because we have been bad for 99 years, we cannot expect to one day be good? Got it.
Hope without a plan is simply a dream. A plan without investment is just hope. We can expect to be good one day when we decide to do the things and make the investment required to be good. The thing that guys like nctigs always misses is that cycling through coaches is a program killer without other changes to the program. NCSU, WF, Pitt and GT are four examples of programs who cycle through coaches looking for success (all with better history than Clemson in BBall) but end up paying a lot of buyouts with little to show for it.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 3:25 PM
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This is not as simple of a question as you make it seem.
I've gone back and forth this season, but at the moment, I am leaning for brownell to be back next year. I also watch every Clemson basketball game and love the sport.
If we don't make the tourney next year, then he needs to go.
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Orange Blooded [4387]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 7:18 PM
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i've gone back and forth myself... all year...tried to avoid the discussions on here for the most part
as of now, i find myself on the 'he should go' side
but there is certainly a strong argument that the Tigers should be better next year
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 3:29 PM
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Clemson was so-so in football, until we got Dabo. Clemson basketball will be so-so until we get the right coach there. It doesn’t take 12 years to see that. Dabo himself even said that he wouldn’t be at Clemson if he didn’t win!
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 3:35 PM
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Clemson was so-so in football, until we got Dabo. Clemson basketball will be so-so until we get the right coach there. It doesn’t take 12 years to see that. Dabo himself even said that he wouldn’t be at Clemson if he didn’t win!
This is what I've been saying for a while. Why don't we just hire a Dabo like coach for our basketball program? I mean seriously, it's not rocket science. Maybe our new AD can figure it out. It's easy!
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110%er [6153]
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If only it were that simple ...
Mar 3, 2022, 4:10 PM
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When Dabo arrived, the Clemson football program was a lot like the NC State basketball program is today.
There was a lot of solid tradition, history and success to illustrate why the right coach could come in and revive a moribund program.
NC State is arguably the most storied hoops program in the history of the ACC. They won multiple conference titles, had numerous all-Americans, and they have two national championships to their credit.
In football, Clemson has a similar standing in the ACC. The Tigers were a participant in almost all of the major bowls in the 1950s. They experienced a resurgence in the 1970s and actually won a national championship in 1982 before sinking into mediocrity in the 1990s.
It was easy to see what was possible at Clemson in football and a Dabo took full advantage of those possibilities.
Now look at how hard it’s been for NC State to capitalize on their long and illustrious ACC hoops history and see where they are right now.
When you see what The Wolfpack is enduring, it’s hard not to understand why the hurdles in Clemson basketball are si high.
NCSU can not find a coach capable of doing what fans want and expect. They certainly have not found a “Dabo Swinney” ...
So why is it assumed that a great basketball coach is just out there waiting to be beckoned to Clemson?
Clemson got lucky with a Dabo in football. The challenge in basketball,is immeasurably greater.
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Orange Blooded [3374]
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Re: If only it were that simple ...
Mar 3, 2022, 5:04 PM
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I hope that you believe that our basketball history doesn’t have to be our future. I want to believe that Clemson’s goal is to win a National Championship in basketball. If you believe Coach Brownell can do that, keep him for 12 more years. If you don’t then let him find another job and hire a person who can take us to that goal. I believe if Rick Barnes had stayed we would have already won a National Championship in basketball.
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110%er [6153]
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We’re on the same page for the most part.
Mar 3, 2022, 5:27 PM
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You finish by saying *if* Rick Barnes had stayed, and that is very much a part of the overall problem.
Nothing I said was meant to defend Brad Brownell tenure at Clemson. I’m fine with trying once again to raise Clemson’s profile by making another coaching change.
But, I absolutely do believe that history and tradition have a large impact on the ability of a program to rise above their station. It’s a large part of the reason SCAR cannot ever seem to gain any traction.
Back to Rick Barnes ... he had the ability and the opportunity to be a game changer for Clemson. But, he didn’t want the challenge. I honestly don’t think he himself believed it was possible.
So, what now? What available coach has the ability ... and actually wants the challenge?
If he’s out there and we can find him, go get him.!
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: If only it were that simple ...
Mar 3, 2022, 5:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: If only it were that simple ... ] |
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Not sure I agree with you about Rick Barnes. He left Clemson to coach at better programs and has come close to winning a Natty only once. Don't get me wrong, I think Rick is an excellent coach, but win a Natty here? Very doubtful.
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110%er [7971]
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Re: If only it were that simple ...
Mar 4, 2022, 8:10 AM
[ in reply to Re: If only it were that simple ... ] |
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I hope that you believe that our basketball history doesn’t have to be our future. I want to believe that Clemson’s goal is to win a National Championship in basketball. If you believe Coach Brownell can do that, keep him for 12 more years. If you don’t then let him find another job and hire a person who can take us to that goal. I believe if Rick Barnes had stayed we would have already won a National Championship in basketball.
Our goal in basketball is to be middle of the pack ACC as reflected by our spending. We have natural obstacles to basketball success which would require a huge investment to overcome. We have determined that other programs have a better chance of success and chose to direct the money in their direction. Yes we rebuilt LJ but we had to as it was rusting out but I am not taking about a place to play. I am talking about investing in a Dabo world type of facility in basketball with a bistro, nap rooms and slide. Making sure our coaching staff is elite and compensated as such. Making sure we surround the team with a ton of staff so no detail is overlooked.
Barnes left because winning is too difficult at Clemson so he did what any coach would do when a better offer came along.
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Legend [17300]
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Re: If only it were that simple ...
Mar 3, 2022, 7:00 PM
[ in reply to If only it were that simple ... ] |
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Clemson won the 1981 National Championship in football (not 1982).
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110%er [6153]
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Whatever ... it was awarded subsequent to our winning the
Mar 3, 2022, 7:52 PM
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1982 Orange Bowl, so technically we won it in 1982 for our performance during the 1981 season.
I know cause i was there.
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110%er [7971]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans? ] |
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Clemson was so-so in football, until we got Dabo. Clemson basketball will be so-so until we get the right coach there. It doesn’t take 12 years to see that. Dabo himself even said that he wouldn’t be at Clemson if he didn’t win!
Its hard to believe that any reasonable person thinks that Clemson football and Clemson basketball are comparable programs.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans? ] |
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The average Clemson sports fan cares much, much more about football than basketball however. That's why Brad has lasted long as he has. I'm willing to give him one more year.
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110%er [6673]
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Bring the question back after the season...
Mar 3, 2022, 3:58 PM
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They could upset Vtech, and have an upset or two in the tournament springing them to the NIT?
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Orange Blooded [3277]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:15 PM
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I will make the same statement I made when folks were pushing for Leggett to be replaced. It only makes sense to replace Brownell if there is someone better waiting in the wings. Don't give me the whole "we don't know if the person is better or not yet" crap. If they are unproven and turn out to be better than Brownell is, then likely they won't be here very long. If they are proven, then what would make them want to come to Clemson? The opportunity to say they are coaching in the ACC? It certainly won't be the money thrown at them as we tend to skimp on paying our basketball coaches.
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All-TigerNet [11469]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:28 PM
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I will make the same statement I made when folks were pushing for Leggett to be replaced. It only makes sense to replace Brownell if there is someone better waiting in the wings. Don't give me the whole "we don't know if the person is better or not yet" crap. If they are unproven and turn out to be better than Brownell is, then likely they won't be here very long. If they are proven, then what would make them want to come to Clemson? The opportunity to say they are coaching in the ACC? It certainly won't be the money thrown at them as we tend to skimp on paying our basketball coaches.
And how do you know there is not someone they have contacted by third party contacts of agents that is interested that is better than Brad? Let's say it was John Beilein who wanted to get back in college coaching. He took Michigan to the Natty game? That is better than Brad would you say not? He coached at West Virginia a long while too, and Clemson is a little similar. That is where President Clements came from. Not saying is, but you know nothing like the rest of us...
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Orange Blooded [3277]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:31 PM
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Again, my statement was that it only makes sense to replace Brownell if there is someone better willing to come here. The guy runs a clean program and is generally likeable. His results on the court are often extremely frustrating, but basketball at Clemson has ALWAYS been extremely frustrating. And yes, I would love for that narrative to change. The question is, will the administration make the fiscal changes necessary to attract a coach better than Brownell?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Generally likable!?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:26 PM
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Is not a reason to keep a coach, good grief, this is big boy sports, big time business and big time money. If our leadership is making decisions based on “well he’s generally likable “ we get what we deserve in terms of our mediocre, bottom tier program (predicted to finish 10th or worse every year in the ACC). Such an embarrassing sentiment.
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Orange Blooded [3277]
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Re: Generally likable!?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:38 PM
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read the entire post. there are d-bag coaches out there who have similar resumes to Brownell's. I am not a proponent of keeping Brownell because he is a good guy. My statement is, was and will always be, you don't fire a coach unless the replacement is going to be an upgrade.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Generally likable!?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:41 PM
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I agreed with that sentiment until this year, the program is stagnant, complacent and not trying to move forward at this point. After 12 years sometimes a change of scenery is just needed for both parties. Like I said I agreed with this approach until this year. We have all sounded like the coots for many years, "give him one more year" or "next year", etc... As the great Bill Parcells said "You are what your record says you are" and after 12 years, we are an apathetic program.
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All-In [46565]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:17 PM
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My personal opinion is we need a new vision for the program that believes we can be great at basketball. A vision to grow our program into the beat program ever in Basketball.
What happened in the past, it’s past and only gives us insight on us what we must not do or accept.
Clemson can be the best program ever, we just all need to believe and strive for that belief in my Opinion.
I want us to to win the ACC tournament and go to the Ncca tournament and win it. I like Brad Brownell and always wish him the best.
We need a change a vision for being great a better mindset and goals for our program period.
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Legend [19523]
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^^^This^^^...
Mar 3, 2022, 4:25 PM
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Hopefully Graham Neff thinks the same way and wants the very best for the program
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110%er [7971]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 4:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans? ] |
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My personal opinion is we need a new vision for the program that believes we can be great at basketball. A vision to grow our program into the beat program ever in Basketball.
What happened in the past, it’s past and only gives us insight on us what we must not do or accept.
Clemson can be the best program ever, we just all need to believe and strive for that belief in my Opinion.
I want us to to win the ACC tournament and go to the Ncca tournament and win it. I like Brad Brownell and always wish him the best.
We need a change a vision for being great a better mindset and goals for our program period.
A vision is good but ultimately requires funding. Given we are at a competitive disadvantage vs other elite schools would you drop extra coin in our basketball program or would you push the funds to football, soccer or softball where we have a high probability of success?
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Walk-On [102]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 9:55 PM
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Studies by the NCAA and others have shown that there is no correlation between wins and the amount of money spent on basketball programs.
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Oculus Spirit [76889]
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Seems you are getting your answers
Mar 3, 2022, 4:33 PM
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every time your pulse drops…
Everybody wants better. No matter the cost. Stop being so obtuse just to get a rise out of people “fan.”
Clemson MBB has far bigger hurdles than Brad, yet history doesn’t resonate with you. That’s your problem, mate.
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Legend [16439]
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I am less of a college hoops fan when we are irrelevant
Mar 3, 2022, 4:44 PM
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The whole ACC is basically irrelevant this year, so no, I have really watched no college hoops except for our games.
Can't really say that I am in the group you are addressing ("many who want BB back"). I don't make coaching decisions...I just make rooting decisions and financial support decisions. Whether BB is back or not will have no impact on the decisions I make with regard to college basketball. If Brad returns, I will be his #1 fan, but if we move on, next man up...I will have your back.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: I am less of a college hoops fan when we are irrelevant
Mar 3, 2022, 6:18 PM
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The whole ACC is in coach K TOUR mode. Think they might get some calls?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:11 PM
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I love college basketball and especially Clemson basketball, so I am not the targeted person for your question. That said, as it has been outlined on here before we have been living in this limbo for 12 years where we are OK, not good, not bad (generally), but OK and kept thinking we would turn the corner and become a consistent, good, VT like basketball program. My dad and I kept saying, might as well keep BB, who would we get to replace him that’s better? This year has really opened our eyes and we both agree a change has to be made, you can’t be 12 years in and have seasons like this, there is no excuse for it. The sweet 16 run was awesome, but that should be a regular thing, not an all time high point for a coach 12 years into the program he developed. We need a change, BB needs a change. What we are doing is not working, the program has no identity. Bad seasons happen this deep into a career, but it’s usually after tons of success and then the perfect storm of injuries and circumstances that cause it (like football this year to an extent). But that’s not what this is, this has served as a big old smack in the face, kick in the pants that THIS is our program, we have to make a change or in 12 more years we will have 3 more NCAAT appearances, about 7 .500 seasons (barely above or below) and 2 respectable seasons that might make the NIT… I would rather the unknown than sign up for that, the worst part about the BB era is that I have slowly started caring less and less, while March is still my favorite time of year. I want to love basketball again, just my 2 cents.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:20 PM
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fans??? just curious if the results are of those that want Brad back who really like the sport and watch a lot on TV and love the game. I know FuureDoc is a big Brad Brownell fan and likes the sport a lot, but anyone like basketball a lot and want Clemson to be more of factor? or are those way more football fans and just want to keep Brad because we don't stink and basketball is what it is?
I am huge fan and keep up with the sport on tv and news which I have mentioned
If Clemson keeps Brad and things stay the same I still will watch the game because it is exciting. I love March Madness and it's my favorite time of the year.
I like Coach Brownell for many reasons! One of which is that he seems to be living rent free between your ears!!!!
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:25 PM
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fans??? just curious if the results are of those that want Brad back who really like the sport and watch a lot on TV and love the game. I know FuureDoc is a big Brad Brownell fan and likes the sport a lot, but anyone like basketball a lot and want Clemson to be more of factor? or are those way more football fans and just want to keep Brad because we don't stink and basketball is what it is?
I am huge fan and keep up with the sport on tv and news which I have mentioned
If Clemson keeps Brad and things stay the same I still will watch the game because it is exciting. I love March Madness and it's my favorite time of the year.
You say you love the game and watch a lot of basketball. But you also seem to believe the ACC basketball schedule and the ACC football schedule are the same, and that Clemson has some kind of natural advantage in basketball recruiting that most people don't see.
You don't seem to get any joy watching Clemson compete unless they win. That doesn't sound like a basketball fan.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 5:28 PM
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What?
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Legend [17573]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 6:43 PM
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fans??? just curious if the results are of those that want Brad back who really like the sport and watch a lot on TV and love the game. I know FuureDoc is a big Brad Brownell fan and likes the sport a lot, but anyone like basketball a lot and want Clemson to be more of factor? or are those way more football fans and just want to keep Brad because we don't stink and basketball is what it is?
I am huge fan and keep up with the sport on tv and news which I have mentioned
If Clemson keeps Brad and things stay the same I still will watch the game because it is exciting. I love March Madness and it's my favorite time of the year.
How many like me matriculated at Clemson largely due to ACC basketball, rarely missed a game as a student from 1979-1984, traveled 200+ miles one-way to see 2-4 games per year for 25-30 years, and stopped following Clemson basketball approx. 10 years ago due to boring style of play and inept coaching under pressure? I'm a big college hoops fan who has attended multiple ACC tournaments, many 1st/2nd, many Sweet 16, and three Final Four tournaments (Seattle-UCLA championship, Minneapolis-Duke championship, and New Orleans-UNC championship.) I would like to see Clemson give any new coach a shot.
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Orange Blooded [4387]
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watched the ACC for 50+ years
Mar 3, 2022, 7:14 PM
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definitely my favorite spectator sport..
until now, i've stayed out of the 'should he stay or should he go' discussions...
but i've moved - a little reluctantly - to the 'time for a change' side
there is no reason Clemson can't have a really strong program, a consistent winner, with the occasional great team..
i don't think it will happen with Brownell as the coach...
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110%er [8530]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 3, 2022, 7:26 PM
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I do not like our record of NCAA Tournament appearances under Brownell but I also do not think we could hire a better coach. Count me in the group that is unhappy overall but doubt we can upgrade.
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Scout Team [196]
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 4, 2022, 2:27 PM
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If Auburn can do it why can't we?
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Freshman [-99]
TigerPulse: 21%
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Re: how many who want BB back are big college bkball fans?
Mar 4, 2022, 6:42 PM
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If Auburn can do it why can't we?
A Brownell coached team dominated Auburn with that coach a few years ago in the tournament. That was probably their biggest lost in program history and Clemson's most dominating playoff win.
The Auburn coach has a sleazy reputation.
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