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Legend [16900]
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Hey Brownell Bros
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May 8, 2023, 11:28 AM
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In the previous 13 seasons the baseball program fired two coaches and still missed the tournament as much as your guy was able to make it. We’ll be back again this year. Probably as the equivalent of a 4 seed. Coaches matter. Stop enabling mediocrity. You are part of the problem.
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All-In [30757]
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NEFF already made his decision
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May 8, 2023, 11:37 AM
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if you want Clemson to succeed then you have to support Brownell
the rest is just fodder for the internet.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: NEFF already made his decision
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May 8, 2023, 11:40 AM
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Clemson will not succeed at basketball with Brownell therefore no amount of support matters. You would point and laugh at any rival sticking with this bum like we have. Stop embarrassing yourself.
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All-In [30757]
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again NEFF made this decision.
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May 8, 2023, 11:44 AM
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You can choose not to support Clemson if you want. that is ok.. It's your time and money. Spend it how you wish.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Until Neff understands that simple concept
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May 8, 2023, 11:52 AM
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we are going to be stuck in mediocrity.
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All-In [30757]
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Neff has NO say in my mediocrity
May 8, 2023, 1:12 PM
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that's all on me.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: again NEFF made this decision.
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May 8, 2023, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to again NEFF made this decision. ] |
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It is not, in fact, a binary decision. There are myriad ways that I can both support the University generally, IPTAY, specific academic programs and departments, and specific athletic programs while also expressing, both publicly and privately, my extreme dissatisfaction with Brownell’s continued employment. Neff, however, has a simple binary decision to make in a little less than a year. He has made the wrong decision two years in a row. I, and many others, are working to make sure he completely understands the potential consequence if he does it again.
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Letterman [250]
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Neff, BOT, etc. don't agree with you
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May 8, 2023, 12:25 PM
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I think you're mistaken in that individuals who minimally invest in IPTAY and/or make donations to Clemson athletics or the university in general will sway Neff and the BOT. As it stands, the major players, i.e., Neff, BOT, large donors, do not agree with you. You can continue with what I'm sure is a threat to not contribute to IPTAY; however, I think he will call your bluff. Part of the change to the IPTAY structure was penalizing you for not renewing.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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I have been a season ticket buyer for over thirty years...
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May 8, 2023, 12:34 PM
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and I can tell you I will be not buying basketball tickets this upcoming season.
While Neff, the President, the BOT, and some large donors may be content with inconsistency and mediocrity, I don't have to be. I know several other season ticket holders who share my discontent and will be doing the same.
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Legend [16058]
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Dropped mine as well. I only had them for 6 years but...
May 8, 2023, 6:40 PM
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I've seen enough. And after we missed the NCAA Tourney for the 10th time in 12 years I told Neff as much. He said he saw our season as an NCAA season them we proceeded to lose to Morehead State at home in the NIT. Won't be watching this garbage from the stands this year.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Neff, BOT, etc. don't agree with you
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May 8, 2023, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Neff, BOT, etc. don't agree with you ] |
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I’m not sure I understand your point. Obviously they don’t agree. Hence his continued employment. They’ve made it clear that they are perfectly content to suck at basketball. I have two major points of contention.
One, if we aren’t going to compete in the post season we don’t need a $3 million a year coach. No one should use Clemson/IPTAY as their piggy bank. Dabo, despite his tremendous salary, generates massive positive returns for the University. Brownell does not.
Two, if we are going to compete in the post season then Brownell is not the guy. This is self evident and any arguments to the contrary are ridiculous and long past the point of debate.
In either scenario, it is time for him to go. My direct financial contributions are pretty minimal. But I know several that give way more than I do that share my dissatisfaction. Heck, I know a couple that have been locked into rather significant contributions and are second guessing themselves based on football results alone. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to realize you can buy premium seats resale for a fraction of the total cost of purchasing through IPTAY. They are playing a dangerous game of chicken to treat basketball with such apathy.
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Letterman [250]
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Re: Neff, BOT, etc. don't agree with you
May 8, 2023, 1:56 PM
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I'm not going to pretend to think I have all of the answers. I don't fault anyone who thinks a change is warranted. One major point of contention with you is that Clemson basketball doesn't "suck."
To your points of contention.
1. I think you are mistaken as to the going rate for a HC in the ACC, especially if you want to get an established coach. That being said, basketball actually generates revenue for Clemson. I believe only one of two sports.
2. I disagree with on you point two. I think CBB's teams are typically well-suited for postseason play. There's no reason to type any more because you don't agree.
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Legend [15783]
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What are you basing your point #2 on? Certainly not
May 8, 2023, 4:41 PM
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what we have seen in 13 years. Doesn't matter how suited we are for the tournament if we can't make the tournament.
They looked well-suited in the Moorehead St. game.
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All-In [30757]
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Orange Blooded [2843]
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Neff will be proven correct
May 9, 2023, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: again NEFF made this decision. ] |
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And you will be proven to be the bozo you are. You hate basketball. We know that already. Enough. Back away from the keyboard and stop snorting coke. I know you are angry Brownell just cleaned up in the portal. Curses! Makes the tournament and then you have to go back in your hole. Ten straight winning seasons is not mediocrity. It is a miracle considering Clemson’s basketball history.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Neff will be proven correct
May 10, 2023, 4:24 PM
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Every coach in my lifetime would have done the better against the modern ACC.
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Legend [16058]
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Dropped my season tickets and donation giving level...
May 8, 2023, 6:37 PM
[ in reply to again NEFF made this decision. ] |
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So I guess Brownell is succeeding.
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All-In [30757]
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did you put Borwnella s the reason when you did?***
May 9, 2023, 7:41 AM
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110%er [7920]
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Re: NEFF already made his decision
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May 8, 2023, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: NEFF already made his decision ] |
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Clemson will not succeed at basketball with Brownell therefore no amount of support matters. You would point and laugh at any rival sticking with this bum like we have. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Brownell has succeeded in his tenure by most reasonable measures. Its fine that some fans want to raise the bar but the question becomes what is required to meet the updated goals. The proposed basketball facility is a great start. Perhaps a new coach is required but at this point we have who we have so why not at least get on board instead of being miserable and trying to share your misery with everyone else?
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CU Medallion [64517]
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We've been on board...
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May 8, 2023, 12:17 PM
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for the last thirteen seasons during which time the team has only made it to the NCAAT three times and the first time was with OPs players.
If making the NCAAT is not one of the top two or three "reasonable measures", someone needs to reexamine the commitment to the program. Settling for inconsistency and mediocrity IS NOT the answer.
Best is the standard my a$$!!!!
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110%er [7920]
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Re: We've been on board...
May 8, 2023, 12:56 PM
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for the last thirteen seasons during which time the team has only made it to the NCAAT three times and the first time was with OPs players.
If making the NCAAT is not one of the top two or three "reasonable measures", someone needs to reexamine the commitment to the program. Settling for inconsistency and mediocrity IS NOT the answer.
Best is the standard my a$$!!!!
Winning percentage would be a reasonable measure where CBB has been within one win per season of any of our coaches. Graduation percentage would be a reasonable measure as they are also students as well as athletes (hence the name). A top four conference finish, a sweet 16 trip and a win at UNC. As a program we have never consistantly made the dance and the few years under OP we made it but could not win a single game. Ultimately overall CBB has been a success. Perhaps not as much success as you think we deserve but making a change, unless we go big like baseball, will not bring the results you desire.
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Orange Blooded [3363]
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Re: We've been on board...
May 8, 2023, 5:05 PM
[ in reply to We've been on board... ] |
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Taking out the 2010 season, the Oliver Purcell players, this is Brad Brownell’s RECORD:
16-15. 23-13
13-18. 25-10
16-15. 20-14
17-14. 23-11
17-16
16-15
16-8
17-16
What does the RECORD say?
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CU Medallion [64517]
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3 NCAAT appearances over his 13 year career at Clemson...
May 8, 2023, 5:34 PM
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You are what your record says you are.
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Legend [16058]
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Looks pretty sh!t outside of 3 years...
May 8, 2023, 6:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: We've been on board... ] |
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One of which was an NIT team that lost to Morehead St at home in the first round.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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as a 25-point favorite!!!!***
May 9, 2023, 7:52 AM
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All-In [40088]
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Re: NEFF already made his decision
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May 8, 2023, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: NEFF already made his decision ] |
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Going to the NCAAT is not a new standard. It is a reasonable standard. I'm not sure I have a number for you but I know it's more than 3 times out of 13 years.
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110%er [7920]
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Re: NEFF already made his decision
May 8, 2023, 1:02 PM
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The tournament has been played 84 times and we have been invited 16 times or 19%. CBB as made the dance 3 out of 13 times which is 23%.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: NEFF already made his decision
May 8, 2023, 1:07 PM
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Now do 64 team era unless you are being willfully deceptive. Then exclude the Shyatt years and the Brownell years. Now where does he actually stand?
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Take out the team that OP built and what is the percentage?
May 8, 2023, 1:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: NEFF already made his decision ] |
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2/12=16.7% Brownell did not build that team. He brought one guy with him who didn't play and then transferred out.
Program builders have some combination of recruiting and coaching ability. Coach Brownell is lacking in one or the other. He is an assistant masquerading as a head coach. Had he followed Larry Shyatt, he would have been gone a long time ago.
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: NEFF already made his decision
May 8, 2023, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: NEFF already made his decision ] |
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Since the NCAA tournament expanded to 64, Men's basketball has only made 12 of 38 tournaments. If you take out the Shyatt/Brown-L years our Tigers have made 9 of 21. As you can see when you take out bad coaching you can have decent basketball success at our football school.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: NEFF already made his decision
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May 8, 2023, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: NEFF already made his decision ] |
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It is a true statement only as reflected by the administration retaining him. Other than counting wins, he is the worst coach in the 64 team era other than Shyatt. Average RPI, ELO, SRS - literally any comparative measure says his teams are worse than everyone but Shyatt’s. This is then easily validated by his lack of post season appearances and inability to graduate professional basketball players - relative to his predecessors. To argue that we need to keep Brownell because he is equal to or greater than his predecessors and that the struggles in basketball are inherit to the program are an out at out lie.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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I don't think Neff had anything to do with the decision...
May 8, 2023, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to NEFF already made his decision ] |
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to retain CBB.
I think he was directed by the President and BOT. While he may have fully supported the decision, the decision wasn't ultimately up to him to make.
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110%er [8414]
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The dumbest take from these broken record obsessed posters
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May 8, 2023, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to NEFF already made his decision ] |
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Is that they think they understand the nuances of hiring and firing coaches better than a professional athletic director, and that they believe they want to win more than he does. You don’t; that’s why you’re posting incessant nonsense on a message board and not making decisions that shape an athletic department.
BTW who was it that fired Monte Lee and hired Erik Bakich? We should get that guy to make all of our coaching hiring/firing decisions.
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Hall of Famer [22429]
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Re: The dumbest take from these broken record obsessed posters
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May 8, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Notice how it is a lot of the same people who think they know better than Dabo who should be on the football coaching staff as well.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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110%er [8414]
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Exactly; except posters like this Op think they’re
May 8, 2023, 1:09 PM
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Coaching justice warriors and what they say on this site is going to have an effect on how our program is run. At least that’s his excuse for constantly flogging the sheet out of this particular deceased equine.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: The dumbest take from these broken record obsessed posters
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May 8, 2023, 1:13 PM
[ in reply to The dumbest take from these broken record obsessed posters ] |
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It’s equally funny that you think being an AD requires some professional certification like being a chemical engineer or doctor. Brad has been our coach during the entirety of Neff’s professional career in sports administration. Lots of athletic directors move into the job with no relevant experience. It’s often purely a fund raising position. The only insight he has that I might lack is exactly how much money he truly has to spend.
And yes, I’m hoping the guy who made an excellent baseball hire will get over his obvious affection for Brad and make a move of similar quality.
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Legend [16058]
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Legend [16058]
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Legend [17748]
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Hi!***
May 8, 2023, 5:35 PM
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Orange Blooded [3531]
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Re: Hey Brownell Bros
May 8, 2023, 5:42 PM
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Need to see more of this. Talking about the real issues of Clemson sports.
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Orange Blooded [3723]
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Re: Hey Brownell Bros
May 8, 2023, 6:06 PM
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Brownell bros. Lol
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