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110%er [5647]
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All-In [40872]
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is that why minorties are not
Apr 14, 2021, 7:34 AM
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getting vaccinated? I thought it was because black guys were not treated for syphillis in Alabama in the 1930s
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Sounds racist. Why are they trying to kill blacks?***
Apr 14, 2021, 7:45 AM
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred
Apr 14, 2021, 7:53 AM
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coming from a guy that was mocking people for COVID vaccines. I got one on Friday, no ID was presented cause I knew my own name and time of the appointment i made online.
Now let's explain something
driving is NOT a right
buying alcohol is NOT a right
Purchasing Tobacco Products is NOT a right
Boarding a plane is NOT a right
Getting a vaccine is NOT a right
Voting IS a right, and shall not be infringed upon.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Ok. Let's go off your theory
Apr 14, 2021, 8:03 AM
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Then we should be able to buy guns without any proof and validation. It's a right after all.
You sound racist
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: Ok. Let's go off your theory
Apr 14, 2021, 8:07 AM
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yes, and you show multiple forms of ID when you register to Vote, in Florida a photo ID AND, my birth certificate, AND proof of residency. You do not need an ID to fire your weapon dufus.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Soo, it's racist to show your Id to vote but
Apr 14, 2021, 8:10 AM
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Not racist to register to vote requiring an Id?
I'm so confused
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: Soo, it's racist to show your Id to vote but
Apr 14, 2021, 8:11 AM
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you are the only #### bringing race into this. It is like you are 9.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Wait, I'm not the one that says it's racist to require
Apr 14, 2021, 8:17 AM
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People to vote. It's been made very clear.that is the reason why we can't it's racist to require Id.
I'm just using the Dems and media's words. It get pounded over and over. Your beef ain't with me it seems then.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Soo, it's racist to show your Id to vote but
Apr 14, 2021, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Soo, it's racist to show your Id to vote but ] |
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you are the only #### bringing race into this. It is like you are 9.
Tigerbalm’s head is in the sand. I was told by the left that voter id was racist. The thought would have never crossed my mind if they didn’t bring it up
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Also your point doesn't cover the fact you all
Apr 14, 2021, 8:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred ] |
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Are trying to kill blacks
We've established black are either too dumb or poor to get id.
Also, I was definitely required to have id. My daughter forgot hers and we had to go back home to get it
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110%er [9646]
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Got my vaccine on Friday - no ID needed.***
Apr 14, 2021, 8:32 AM
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Got my vaccine on Friday - no ID needed.***
Apr 14, 2021, 10:44 AM
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I needed an ID every single time I got a covid test and for my vaccine.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred
Apr 14, 2021, 8:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred ] |
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coming from a guy that was mocking people for COVID vaccines. I got one on Friday, no ID was presented cause I knew my own name and time of the appointment i made online.
Now let's explain something
driving is NOT a right
buying alcohol is NOT a right
Purchasing Tobacco Products is NOT a right
Boarding a plane is NOT a right
Getting a vaccine is NOT a right
Voting IS a right, and shall not be infringed upon.
Now do owning guns!
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred
Apr 14, 2021, 9:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred ] |
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coming from a guy that was mocking people for COVID vaccines. I got one on Friday, no ID was presented cause I knew my own name and time of the appointment i made online.
Now let's explain something
driving is NOT a right
buying alcohol is NOT a right
Purchasing Tobacco Products is NOT a right
Boarding a plane is NOT a right
Getting a vaccine is NOT a right
Voting IS a right, and shall not be infringed upon.
This is one of the dumbest takes I have ever read regarding racism and IDs.
So it is only racist when rights are infringed upon. But it’s not racist when it is a privilege. A privilege that apparently only whites have because we are competent enough to get id’s? So airlines, banks, alchohol and tobacco sales, getting covid tested, etc are all not racist because only privileged people can partake. Got it.
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All-In [31847]
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asking for an ID to vote is not infringing on the right...
Apr 14, 2021, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred ] |
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to vote...just like providing proof of citizenship in order to register to vote is not infringing on the right to vote.
To say otherwise is simply ignorant.
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All-In [34100]
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It's definitely infringing.
Apr 14, 2021, 11:21 AM
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But I think my disagreement with you will look more like an issue of terminology. An important one, though, because I think it clarifies things.
To infringe is to limit. The things about constitutional rights is not that they can't be infringed (limited) at all, but what constitutes an unconstitutional infringement or limitation.
We can place all kinds of limitation on speech, on gun ownership, on the privacy right against search and seizure. The question each time is where the infringement goes too far.
Oftentimes the constitutional question is whether the particular limitation is acceptable because it is important for another government interest. For instance, the government has a competing interest in maintaining order, which means they can require permits for speeches in public places, or to own a handgun. These are infringements, but sometimes they are outweighed by a significant governmental interest.
So the question about voter ID is not whether it's infringing (it is, by limiting the exercise of the right), but whether the government has a competing interest that justifies the infringement.
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All-In [31847]
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I strongly disagree....
Apr 14, 2021, 2:50 PM
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The defined right is for citizens to be able to vote.
Providing proof of citizenship at time of registration and providing ID at time of voting is not limiting the right to vote past what the constitution limits, which is citizenship.
The exercise of the right is still reserved and limited to citizens by the Constitution...if anything, having to provide proof of citizenship to register and proof of ID to vote is ensuring adherence to the defined right.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: I strongly disagree....
Apr 14, 2021, 4:10 PM
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By that argument, the government could require ID every time someone wants to speak.
It's an infringement because the government is putting an obstacle between you and exercising your right. It may be a desired obstacle, but it's not a necessary one, and we know this because not all jurisdictions require ID to vote.
So I'm not disagreeing that the government has an interest in making sure non-citizens don't vote--in fact I think that's handled when you register in the first place.
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All-In [31847]
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Nope...wrong again...
Apr 14, 2021, 4:54 PM
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The constitution doesn't limit the right of free speech to citizens...therefore asking for an ID to speak would be limiting speech past what the Constitution calls for.
Again, proving you're a citizen...by proving you are the person whose registration you are voting under...is just an upholding of the limitation on voting spelled out in the Constitution.
"It may be a desired obstacle, but it's not a necessary one, and we know this because not all jurisdictions require ID to vote."
No, that just means that some jurisdictions don't bother to adhere as directly to the Constitutional requirements. That isn't a proof of necessity.
By the way...I'm an engineer and I'm kill'n you at this lawyering stuff. Pick up your game
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All-In [34100]
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Re: Nope...wrong again...
Apr 15, 2021, 9:43 AM
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You are correct about noncitizens having 1st Amendment rights. That was a bad analogy on my part. You may be an engineer but you're smart enough to school me over law stuff fairly regularly. Meanwhile, I'll never win against you in a debate over anything about engineering.
I should have used a more real-world example showing that all of our rights can be, and are, routinely infringed. Let me suggest some now. There are laws against certain types of speech (incitement, slander, etc.). Also, the 1st Amendment right of assembly can be limited, for instance by requiring a permit for an event, or prohibiting assembly in certain places--these are generally referred to as time, place and manner restrictions. There are laws against bearing certain types of arms. And so on.
The point is that none of these rights go without some infringement, but the government's ability to infringe tends to be scrutinized by the court (the "strict scrutiny" review applicable when fundamental rights are at issue).
Now, it sounds like you're suggesting that even if everything I just said is correct, checking ID still isn't an infringement. But why would that be? Are you talking about some specific constitutional language that makes the right to vote different? If so, let me know what language you're thinking about. (I.e., go ahead and school me again.)
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All-In [31847]
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What I'm saying is that asking for proof of citizenship....
Apr 15, 2021, 4:44 PM
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In order to vote isn't infringing on the right to vote because it is direct enforcement of the limit of the right expressly called out in the Constitution.
And in this case, asking for an ID to prove the voter is who is listed on the registration ( which is the means of proof of citizenship obtainment).
Of course many of our rights have certain infringements allowed by the courts. But that doesn't mean EVERY law relating to a right is an infringement.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: What I'm saying is that asking for proof of citizenship....
Apr 15, 2021, 6:18 PM
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In order to vote isn't infringing on the right to vote because it is direct enforcement of the limit of the right expressly called out in the Constitution.
Where is it expressly called out in the Constitution?
Of course many of our rights have certain infringements allowed by the courts. But that doesn't mean EVERY law relating to a right is an infringement.
I agree in terms of "relating to a right," but I don't agree in terms of prerequisites to exercising a right. A citizen has the right whether they've proven it to a poll worker or not. You and I could even agree that voter ID is a reasonable infringement if there's a significant governmental interest, but that doesn't mean it's not infringing by definition--it's putting a limit on the exercise of a right.
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All-In [31847]
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The right is limited to citizens right there in the...
Apr 15, 2021, 8:41 PM
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Constitution. You ask where it's expressly written? Well, right there where it says "citizen".
Unlike the other things you've mentioned as infringements...proving you are the person who registered as a citizen isn't limiting or restricting the right, but rather confirming eligibility limits to the right as laid out in the Constitution. I'm sure they may be some, but I can't think of any other Strict Scrutiny type issue where the proving of eligibility for a right is considered an infringement of said right.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: The right is limited to citizens right there in the...
Apr 15, 2021, 9:06 PM
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I'm sorry, can you quote the words you're referring to? I'm not even aware of the Constitution declaring that only citizens have the right to vote.
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All-In [31847]
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15th amendment....
Apr 15, 2021, 11:01 PM
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"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude"
You have to be a citizen to vote.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: 15th amendment....
Apr 15, 2021, 11:16 PM
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All-In [34100]
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Re: 15th amendment....
Apr 16, 2021, 8:54 AM
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That's correct, it's actually a matter of statutory law, which I didn't remember until researching it during this conversation--it's not my area of practice
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: 15th amendment....
Apr 16, 2021, 10:00 AM
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All-In [34100]
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Re: 15th amendment....
Apr 16, 2021, 10:42 AM
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LOL at the part where you called me a legal genius
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All-In [34100]
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So, two things.
Apr 16, 2021, 8:53 AM
[ in reply to 15th amendment.... ] |
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First of all, you're saying that the right to vote isn't even in the original founding document or the Bill of Rights.
Second of all, you're pointing to a Reconstruction Amendment which was enacted to make sure non-white men can vote--not to limit voting to citizens.
That doesn't enshrine the right with a citizenship limitation, and in fact it doesn't even expressly limit voting to citizens. Due to the purpose of the Amendment, it's concerned with protecting citizens against racial discrimination. As a logical matter, it doesn't even say non-citizens can't vote.
The right to vote is not actually set forth in the Constitution, only the right not to be discriminated against while voting.
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All-In [31847]
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I'm well aware of that...
Apr 16, 2021, 9:47 AM
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but I think if you read other cases (and I sure as heck can't recite them or call them by name) there is discussion about the 15th and it's impact on limitation to citizens.
It's certainly correct that voting is not a direct constitutional right, but there have been cases were the 15th amendment is used to imply a limitation to Citizenship. Surely, no one would argue that if a state let non-citizens vote, that that state could limit non-citizens voting based on race because the 15th only says citizens can't be limited by race.
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All-In [34100]
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I was completely not aware of it.
Apr 16, 2021, 10:50 AM
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I've definitely seen court cases talking about the right to vote being the most fundamental of rights and so on, going way back in the day when I clerked on the court, I worked on an important Right to Vote vs. First Amendment case. You probably would have found it interesting. It had to do with the ACLU wanting to hand "Voter Rights Cards" to people at a polling place. The question was whether they could be permitted to do so--it was considered a potential infringement of the right to vote. It was also potentially a violation of state election law.
I'm not aware of cases interpreting the 15th Amendment, but I think the upshot is that there is plenty of room to argue about whether requiring ID is an infringement of the right to vote. I still think that an obstacle is an obstacle, even when it's completely reasonable or even necessary. I think at bottom there might simply be a terminological distinction on how to use "infringement," and maybe my suggestion that it was equivalent to "limitation" is wrong.
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All-In [26469]
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yall libs better reel him in before he goes
Apr 14, 2021, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred ] |
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Completely off the reservation
Healthcare is not a right ??
Your Obamacare buddies will slash your tires
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110%er [5647]
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Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred
Apr 14, 2021, 11:40 AM
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Whoops. I'll have to back the tally down to 9377 if ID is not required across the board.
Sorry for the false alarm.
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All-In [34486]
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Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred
Apr 15, 2021, 4:50 PM
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godddamn you're corny AF
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All-American [587]
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Re: Reason number 9378 the left has no cred
Apr 16, 2021, 4:01 PM
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No you don't. They have been vaccinating transients and the homeless for months.
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