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Legend [19883]
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Heisman Winner [111388]
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no, it is not a Fad.
Mar 23, 2022, 1:21 AM
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Hydrogen cell cars ARE EV's, they just use a different battery tech. You can not charge them at home, so there's that, and they seem to be pretty far behind lithium-ion in so far as cost and efficiency.
As far as pure Hydrogen-powered cars, they will replace diesel for long Haul Transport and Heavy Machinery and will require a special fueling station, but the average Joe will not have access to this, and for good reason.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: no, it is not a Fad.
Mar 23, 2022, 5:27 AM
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Based on what I've read, what this guy said.
Aren't there some CAT buses in Clemson that are already hydro?
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Heisman Winner [111388]
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110%er [7073]
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Re:no, it is not a Fad. H2 fuel is made from Nat. Gas = CO2
Mar 23, 2022, 10:40 AM
[ in reply to no, it is not a Fad. ] |
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Hydrogen as a fuel for automobiles is an environmental chimera (and not the female monster of Greek mythology ... this isn't a SCOTUS nominee thread).
H2 gas is made from methane (from natural gas). By-products of methane to hydrogen are hydrogen (duh, even I know that) and CO2.
Since there is an entire separate process (read: inefficient use of energy) to convert methane into H2 gas, and then the H2 is used in energy-inefficient car engines, I'm guessing (and admitting that I haven't attempted to do any research on the overall energy balance) that H2 fuel is no more effective environmentally than gasoline or diesel.
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Associate AD [838]
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Re:no, it is not a Fad. H2 fuel is made from Nat. Gas = CO2
Mar 23, 2022, 11:37 PM
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There are catalytic processes with methane that produce hydrogen and carbon, not carbon dioxide. Very high temperatures required, so thoughts are that fission heat will be required for scaled up production. I understand the holdup to be development of a cladding material that isn’t Chernobly graphite.
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All-In [40872]
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if you take CH4 and turn it into C and 2H2
Mar 24, 2022, 6:07 AM
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it will take more energy than you will have available once they are separated. That's like basic chemistry.
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Associate AD [838]
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Re: if you take CH4 and turn it into C and 2H2
Mar 24, 2022, 8:14 AM
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Thus why it takes very high temperatures and a catalyst. Plenty of papers on the subject. I haven’t worked in this area, but I heard “nuclear heat source if we can develop a high-T clad other than graphite” 15 or so years ago. Direct heating. People afraid of graphite after one accident.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-pathways![]() Hydrogen Production Pathways DOE's hydrogen production program looks at a wide portfolio of processes over a range of time frames and production scales.
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All-In [26469]
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Just don't name the first model "Hindenburg"***
Mar 23, 2022, 8:09 AM
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110%er [5647]
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Re: EV fad a bust already? Let's Go Hydro!
Mar 23, 2022, 8:29 AM
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Like the CFL lightbulb - a great government scam for the few who made millions
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: EV fad a bust already? Let's Go Hydro!
Mar 23, 2022, 10:13 AM
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That comparison might be valid if everyone was still wanting to use incandescent bulbs. CFL was a transition into LEDs.
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Heisman Winner [111388]
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Re: EV fad a bust already? Let's Go Hydro!
Mar 23, 2022, 10:20 AM
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I remember all the biching and moaning about that one. OMG, I can not believe the government is making me use a more efficient lightbulb that was not designed in 1880. This is obviously a power grab where GE will make more money than GE.
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All-In [40872]
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We should just make it a law that everyone drives
Mar 24, 2022, 6:09 AM
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a tesla. Give everyone until 2024 or 2025 to save up for one.
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Heisman Winner [111388]
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we should also speak Hyperbolically, ALL OF THE TIME!!!!
Mar 24, 2022, 10:48 AM
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because makes some of you look like children.
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Associate AD [838]
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They should raise the phase-out thresh for the tax credit
Mar 26, 2022, 11:51 AM
[ in reply to We should just make it a law that everyone drives ] |
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But you can still buy a honda clarity starting at 33,400 and get the full 7500 credit. They only list a lease price for the fuel cell model, but you have to live in CA.
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Oculus Spirit [80978]
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Battery powered cars are a stepping stone.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:21 AM
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Hydrogen power is the end goal.
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Lot o points [155633]
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I think hydrogen's come and gone.
Mar 24, 2022, 9:16 AM
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Read the OP's article and I still contend it's too energy inefficient to produce and capture liquid hydrogen on a large scale.
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All-TigerNet [11155]
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Still waiting for this...
Mar 24, 2022, 9:33 AM
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Should have had it 7 years ago.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: EV fad a bust already? Let's Go Hydro!
Mar 24, 2022, 9:01 PM
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TigerBalm is on target. Passenger vehicles and small trucks will be powered by battery electric, i.e. lithium ion.
Tractor trailers and anything heavier, such as mining equipment, trains, planes and ships will transition to hydrogen fuel cell electric.
Won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. This is not driven by governments, this is driven by free market economics.
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110%er [7073]
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Re: EV fad a bust already? Let's Go Hydro!
Mar 24, 2022, 9:18 PM
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Looking for AustinPounders® to help out (confirm / refute) my guess:
With the rate that the electric power industry is using natural gas (as a cleaner burning fuel than either coal or bunker oil), and with the USA's short-term political power play to export natural gas to the EU and other markets, the price for natural gas will rise gradually at first, and then at an accelerating rate, as the fracking-extracted gas gets depleted and supplies become harder to find.
With the rising price of natural gas (which will rise in price faster than oil &/or coal), the cost of hydrogen gas will also rise to unattractive levels.
H2 powered vehicles will be left holding the bag.
Let's see what Mr. A.Pounders has to say (and if he thinks keeping this thread alive is worth his time!)
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: EV fad a bust already? Let's Go Hydro!
Mar 24, 2022, 9:53 PM
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Nothing you said is wrong, but you certainly overlap some short term issues with some long term issues.
Also keep in mind the price of hydrogen will continually come down over the next 10 years as the world generates hydrogen without using natural gas. If you’re wondering how that’s gonna happen ……. google is your friend.
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Associate AD [838]
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Electrolysis, radiolysis, urea conversion, fart capture
Mar 25, 2022, 9:06 AM
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We’ll never run out of natural gas. I just made some.
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110%er [7073]
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Re: Electrolysis, radiolysis, urea conversion, fart capture
Mar 25, 2022, 10:30 AM
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Rat-a-tat bada-bing KA-BOOM.
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