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Topic: I am very concerned about our planet , Trump just "broke" it
Replies: 51   Last Post: Jun 9, 2017, 4:36 PM by: Reckless96®
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Replies: 51  

I am very concerned about our planet , Trump just "broke" it

emoji_events [6]
Jun 4, 2017, 1:17 PM

I studied the accuracy of the 1970 earth day predictions, and now I understand why the media and lefties are so , so mad at the POTUS... we are all now doomed. These guys were spot on, weren't they,

https://www.ihatethemedia.com/earth-day-predictions-of-1970-the-reason-you-should-not-believe-earth-day-predictions-of-2009

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Dude


Jun 4, 2017, 1:50 PM

...they're the same scientists that predicted the earth was on the verge of entering a 2cnd Ice-Age when I was in the 1st-grade in 1979.

The earth heats up and cools down. I find it amusing that people think we actually control the weather on planet Earth.

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Re: Dude


Jun 4, 2017, 2:01 PM

> ...they're the same scientists that predicted the
> earth was on the verge of entering a 2cnd Ice-Age
> when I was in the 1st-grade in 1979.
>
> The earth heats up and cools down. I find it amusing
> that people think we actually control the weather on
> planet Earth.


jeepers , check your "sarcasm meter" ...I think it is broken. Did you read the information in the link?

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Re: Dude


Jun 9, 2017, 3:50 PM

Yeah, I did.

I was agreeing with you...but I put "Dude" in the title hoping that a few fruit-loops would click on it hoping for a rebuttal.

I love getting them all stirred up.

2021 purple level member flag link

don't let actual facts trouble you

emoji_events [10]
Jun 4, 2017, 1:54 PM

No offense, but anybody ignoring the alarming trends out there is an idiot whistling past the graveyard. It's astounding to me this repute-the-environmentalist movement that's grown up, basically like regressive Flat Earthers. Which is another symptom of our times; there's no truth anymore, see, there's just spin.

There's moss growing all over Antarctica right now. Why? Because it's warming up.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/antarctica-green-climate-moss-environment/

We have entire glaciers splitting off from the ice shelf right now in chunks that makes the iceberg that took the Titanic down look bush league. One's about to split off that's the size of Delaware, in fact.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/massive-iceberg-set-to-break-off-from-antarctic-ice-shelf-1.3441504

We've got polar bear populations declining dramatically because there's nowhere for them to stand and fish anymore.
https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/polar-bear-population-decline-a-wake-up-call-for-climate-change-action

I could go on. And on. And on. I've got some buddies down at the coast with Fish & Game and another with the EPA and the trends and declines in sea life and marine populations is keeping them up nights.

But hey, you wanna ignore the science, go right on ahead. Just don't expect those of us who actually know better to buy into someone's political BS because environmental responsibility happens to be expensive and they'd rather not spend the money.

Science, fortunately, remains science. And it really has nothing to do with politics.

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the elephant in the room is human population

[3]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:03 PM

You can limit industry all you want but as long as earrh's population continues to grow in industrialized countries no amount of rules on emissions etc is going to have much impact.
And lefties whistle past the graveyard on this issue, preferring to reward illegals and lower socioeconomic groups for having more children.

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^^^THIS^^^


Jun 4, 2017, 7:13 PM

such a huge impact, but doesn't seem to be a topic of conversation.

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No offense,but I can find online artilces that can dispute

emoji_events [15]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:04 PM

the claim you are trying to support too. I have done it before...Glaciers that re increasing in size and heat studies that show other planets are warming at a greater rate than earth.

Science is sciense, but agendas are agendas. Climate prognostication is modern day snake oil sales.

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"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."

"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."


+1***


Jun 4, 2017, 2:07 PM



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Re: No offense,but I can find online artilces that can dispute

[4]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:12 PM

Agendas are indeed agendas.

People have no idea how dangerous it is to discredit the Fourth Estate. In the past the press was at least trying to get it right; now everybody's getting news served up As They Like It and again, there's no truth anymore, there's just spin, and it you don't like the way something sounds, you just change the channel and find somebody who tells you things you actually wanna hear. Which is comforting until a permanent storm system of super-hurricanes starts wheeling around every major ocean wiping islands and coastal regions off the map, we lose the North Atlantic Current and watch England freeze over, permanent draught systems and Dust Bowl-type conditions descend on what's now our agricultural heartland...etc, etc, etc...

But that kinda stuff is coming. I've got a friend from Upstate New York who this very second is trying to sell his house on Lake Ontario. I wish him luck. Thirty years ago his house was on the beach. After awhile the beach vanished and the house stood behind a four-foot breakwall. Now the water level's over the breakwall and his basement is flooding and overwhelming even his pump's ability to purge it. The house is gone, basically. Just a matter of when.

So it goes. Get used to a lot of that. Doesn't mean we as a species can't roll with it but pretending it isn't happening doesn't help anyone.

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Re: No offense,but I can find online artilces that can dispute

[4]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:29 PM

Tell your friend to move to Lake Hartwell. There's plenty of beach there.
I know I lay awake and worry that the average temperature is expected to increase by one-tenth of one percent by 2050.
I have been hearing this crap for nearly 50 years and I have not seen the beach houses on the Carolina coast get swallowed-up by the ocean yet.

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Beach houses in NC were falling in during the 80s,


Jun 4, 2017, 3:21 PM

they even had to move the Hatteras lighthouse so it wouldn't fall in. Every so many years, they try to restore the SC beaches by pumping sand from offshore.

Need to pay better attention.

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Re: No offense,but I can find online artilces that can dispute


Jun 4, 2017, 2:31 PM

> Agendas are indeed agendas.
>
> People have no idea how dangerous it is to discredit
> the Fourth Estate. In the past the press was at least
> trying to get it right; now everybody's
> getting news served up As They Like It and again,
> there's no truth anymore, there's just spin,
> and it you don't like the way something sounds, you
> just change the channel and find somebody who tells
> you things you actually wanna hear. Which is
> comforting until a permanent storm system of
> super-hurricanes starts wheeling around every major
> ocean wiping islands and coastal regions off the map,
> we lose the North Atlantic Current and watch England
> freeze over, permanent draught systems and Dust
> Bowl-type conditions descend on what's now our
> agricultural heartland...etc, etc, etc...
>
> But that kinda stuff is coming. I've got a friend
> from Upstate New York who this very second is trying
> to sell his house on Lake Ontario. I wish him luck.
> Thirty years ago his house was on the beach. After
> awhile the beach vanished and the house stood behind
> a four-foot breakwall. Now the water level's over the
> breakwall and his basement is flooding and
> overwhelming even his pump's ability to purge it. The
> house is gone, basically. Just a matter of when.
>
> So it goes. Get used to a lot of that. Doesn't
> mean we as a species can't roll with it but
> pretending it isn't happening doesn't help aat all..

So , we caused the Dust bowl? Hmmm...what steps should we have taken to prevent it? It is much more likely that we will ruin the earth by way of nuclear weapons than by dropping out of the Paris accord.

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The USDA and extension offices caused the Dust Bowl,


Jun 4, 2017, 3:26 PM

by encouraging farming practice (plowing, disking) that pulverized the soil. Sure, they got better production at first, but then the winds carried off the topsoil. Practices then changed back to avoid that.

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Thanks for the education - I guess that settles it. No need

[2]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:51 PM

for anyone else to question anything regarding Global Warming . . . uh, Climate Change. Just switch off our brains and wait for democrats to tell us what the science says, and which scientists to believe and which ones are frauds or unqualified.

What a relief.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


It's high school science, not some advanced theory.

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 3:29 PM

Radiating gases absorb heat (IR). Non-radiating gases don't absorb heat. When you put more radiating gases in the atmosphere, less heat escapes to space.

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Thanks - I guess.***


Jun 4, 2017, 3:33 PM



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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


what percentage of our atmosphere is CO2?


Jun 4, 2017, 5:07 PM

What is the percentage of by far the largest greenhouse gas, water vapor. What percentage of CO2 is man made. What is the cost to lower this percentage and what are the benefits for this cost. Where is the break even point where we start to create global cooling.

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Clearly the solution is global redistribution of wealth


Jun 4, 2017, 5:02 PM

to help the poor folks, who can't get enough food, "clean" energy

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you

emoji_events [5]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:06 PM

hmmm, OK the Earth is always changing. The belief that signing an agreement that allows India and others to use as many fossil fuels as they want in any qty they want while we pay billions to fund others to do the same is just poor logic.

BTW , you do realize these scientists are of the same "ilk" as the 1979 group?

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Concerning the iceberg breakoff,


Jun 4, 2017, 2:06 PM

just on the other end of that iceberg is growth. It's like the quarter game at the arcade, drop a quarter in and the backside grows, but the other end pushes quarters off the edge. PAY DAY!

Go Tigers AND Tiger Nation(al Champs!)!

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Take care, stay well and see you soon in The Valley!


Re: don't let actual facts trouble you

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:10 PM

Consensus isn't science and many scientists dispute that the findings are due to pollution. That being said, our nation alone cannot stop or reverse pollution alone. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with stricter standards if all nations were doing the same. It's time for the rest of the world to pony up.

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you


Jun 4, 2017, 2:33 PM

Proof we shouldn't try

Yeah

Can't do it alone.... let's just pretend it's not happening

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you


Jun 4, 2017, 2:57 PM

First of all, do a little research about some of these "scientists". They need government funding, and a reason to be funded. There are numerous documented examples, including one recently, of falsified findings and a concerted effort to push their agenda.

Yes, I believe that the clear and present danger is the one that you devote your precious time and energy.. Pun intended. Did you see the news this morning? It's like seeing someone break into your neighbors house, and calling the cops because said neighbor has been burning leaves after dark.

No i don't care to pay for another "world program" with my taxes or my job.

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:19 PM

You can't convince those who have no idea what they're talking about . It's as if they don't want to know a truth exists .

If given an overwhelming preponderance of evidence and still doubting this evidence .....fools . You can't lead a horse to water .

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DB23


Re: don't let actual facts trouble you

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:19 PM

And yet...we have these reports that say exactly the opposite. Antarctica has more ice now than ever recorded.

http://joeforamerica.com/2017/05/al-gore-furious-ice-growing-poles-global-warming-hoaxes-implode/?utm_source=TE&utm_medium=shr&utm_campaign=TE

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you


Jun 4, 2017, 2:31 PM

Yep.... and Iceland was once tropical.

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


Re: don't let actual facts trouble you


Jun 4, 2017, 2:34 PM

For a more critical analysis:

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-us-temperatures-after-the-year-2000/
The data is the data. It cannot be altered. Otherwise, it is not science. Any true scientist will tell you that altering the data in any way for any reason constitutes heresy in the scientific world. See the graphs of data before and after alteration.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425232/climate-change-no-its-not-97-percent-consensus-ian-tuttle
The "97% consensus" was a gross estimate (it was a guess) without validity. It is incorrect.


http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
Water vapor calculations are essential. With them, the effect is virtually negligible. Even without, the estimates are that man is only capable of producing a 5% effect. Even including man-made change, are the changes in temperature significant and outside of historical norms. It is unlikely that we can answer this question with certainty, but the best guess is, "probably not," given prior evidence of cooler historical climates (before actual measurements were taken).

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you

[2]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:50 PM

It's not about climate change or environmentalism, it really hasn't been for a long time...it's about socialist economic policy--redistribution of wealth. The leaders of the movement readily admit as much.

(OTTMAR EDENHOFER, UN IPCC OFFICIAL): Basically it’s a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War... First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

Christiana Figueres, leader of the U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change: “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history.”

Former U.S. Senator Timothy Wirth (D-CO), then representing the Clinton-Gore administration as U.S undersecretary of state for global issues, addressing the same Rio Climate Summit audience, agreed: “We have got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.”

Christine Stewart, former Canadian Environment Minister: “No matter if the science is all phoney, there are collateral environmental benefits.... climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world.”

Daphne Muller, green-progressive-liberal writer for Salon: "This moment requires we the people to rethink democracy as a global mechanism for enacting policy for and by the planet."

Peter Berle, President of the National Audubon Society: "We reject the idea of private property."

David Brower, a founder of the Sierra Club: "The goal now is a socialist, redistributionist society, which is nature's proper steward and society's only hope."

Mikhail Gorbachev, communist and former leader of U.S.S.R.: "The emerging 'environmentalization' of our civilization and the need for vigorous action in the interest of the entire global community will inevitably have multiple political consequences. Perhaps the most important of them will be a gradual change in the status of the United Nations. Inevitably, it must assume some aspects of a world government."

Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth: “A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources.”

Monika Kopacz, atmospheric scientist: "It is no secret that a lot of climate-change research is subject to opinion, that climate models sometimes disagree even on the signs of the future changes (e.g. drier vs. wetter future climate). The problem is, only sensational exaggeration makes the kind of story that will get politicians’ — and readers’ — attention. So, yes, climate scientists might exaggerate, but in today’s world, this is the only way to assure any political action and thus more federal financing to reduce the scientific uncertainty."

Researcher Robert Phalen's 2010 testimony to the California Air Resources Board: "It benefits us personally to have the public be afraid, even if these risks are trivial."

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you


Jun 4, 2017, 3:15 PM

Exactly. The environment is merely the new fuel efficient vehicle by which the anti-capitalists push their social eutopia.

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RE: Polar Bears

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 3:18 PM

http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/02/17/polar-bear-numbers-still-on-the-rise-despite-global-warming/

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 3:42 PM

Yea, and current culturally directed science has absolutely nothing to do with facts. I've always paid attention to "science"...I'm 58 years old, I knew for a fact that the earth was cooling and we were facing famine. I knew for a fact that we would be completely out of petroleum by 1990. Eggs are terrible for us and should be avoided at all costs (thousands of egg producers were put out of business.
The Gulf of Mexico will take decades to recover from the BP oil spill....houses must have ventilated attics or they will have excess humidity and suffer structural damage (Univ of FL and CO building science depts., baloney)...diverticulitus is caused by eating seeds....margarine is better for you than butter. blah, blah blah.

Use your brain and understand that there is no untainted science. In order to even be a part of the "scientific community" you have to toe the party line. And now, they want us to give them political control over our very lives so that they can "save us" I pray that as you get older you gain some wisdom to go along with your zeal for "science".

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Re: don't let actual facts trouble you


Jun 9, 2017, 4:36 PM

See, that's your problem right there. Anybody that doesn't agree with your politics is an idiot. That's incredibly rich.

The "science" that you talk about is far from settled, and there are just as many studies that contradict the climate science that you and others hold as fact. The earth heats up, cools down, and has never needed any help from human beings to do so. Global warming is just that, and we don't control it. People who think otherwise are well...are completely unhinged and have a "God" complex. They want to make themselves feel better about what they don't understand, and can't control (and they want to control everything) so they make up hypothesis after hypothesis hoping some of it sticks to the wall. If it does, they go about telling the rest of us that their science is fact and the rest of us had better start getting in line and following suit otherwise we're idiots. For those of us they can't convince they set about creating new rules and laws to punish us for our unbelief. These are your liberal-fascist types.

Some people will literally fall for ANYTHING. They tell themselves they're enlightened, but in reality they're scared, and think the universe just happened all on it's own. Yep, these are the folks who don't have any rational explanation about who created the universe, but they expect the rest of us to follow their lead on why the earth heats up and cools down? Thanks but no.

You're very confused. The only science that's settled is that mankind has barely scratched the surface and still doesn't have a clue. If you don't believe me just check out the science 40 years ago and see how much of what we think we knew THEN about the earth's warming/cooling cycles has remained the same.

You're simply not in position to lecture.

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My favorite:


Jun 4, 2017, 2:01 PM

“The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years. If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”
• Kenneth Watt, Ecologist

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Take care, stay well and see you soon in The Valley!


the Northern Hemisphere has warmed DRAMATICALLY since January.

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:09 PM

WHEN IS THE GOVERNMENT GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS ENORMOUS TEMPERATURE RISE?!?!?! ICE IN THE ARCTIC IS MELTING!!!

Maybe if we give Al Gore a few billion dollars, the warming will stop and actually start cooling off around September. Climate Change is REAL!

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never believe a politician or an environmentalist


Jun 4, 2017, 2:14 PM

I remember as a youngster freting that I would never be able to drive a car.

https://youtu.be/nI8scHUxgoc

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Re: never believe a politician or an environmentalist

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:22 PM

There was an entire theory about the "peak oil" disaster looming too.

What changed that was technology...in particular, oil frakking. They're able to get oil out of oil shale now; they couldn't before, and that's allowed the USA to supply itself a lot more domestically, though frakking has its own environmental consequences.

That's not to say there's not a technology fix for this global warming problem either. Actually there probably is, and that's widespread deployment of large-scale mylar balloons in low orbit to provide shade...essentially "cooling" zones that offset the heat building up because the atmosphere is a little thicker than it once was. It's ambitious...but theoretically possible, and will probably have be done at some point if super-hurricanes start developing and getting out of control.

Disasters only happen in a straight-line extrapolation. Fortunately humans are inventive little creatures that think their way around problems as they arise.

Again, to do that, though, people need to first acknowledge what the actual problems are. Putting your fingers in your ear and going "la-la-la-la" like a freakin' three-year-old doesn't help. And it looks durn stupid to boot.

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Re: never believe a politician or an environmentalist


Jun 4, 2017, 2:49 PM

> There was an entire theory about the "peak oil"
> disaster looming too.
>
> What changed that was technology...in particular, oil
> frakking. They're able to get oil out of oil shale
> now; they couldn't before, and that's allowed the USA
> to supply itself a lot more domestically, though
> frakking has its own environmental consequences.
>
> That's not to say there's not a technology fix for
> this global warming problem either. Actually there
> probably is, and that's widespread deployment of
> large-scale mylar balloons in low orbit to provide
> shade...essentially "cooling" zones that offset the
> heat building up because the atmosphere is a little
> thicker than it once was. It's ambitious...but
> theoretically possible, and will probably have be
> done at some point if super-hurricanes start
> developing and getting out of control.
>
> Disasters only happen in a straight-line
> extrapolation. Fortunately humans are inventive
> little creatures that think their way around problems
> as they arise.
>
> Again, to do that, though, people need to first
> acknowledge what the actual problems are.
> Putting your fingers in your ear and going
> "la-la-la-la" like a freakin' three-year-old doesn't
> help. And it looks durn stupid to boot.

Ocean fertilization may work as well.

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Re: never believe a politician or an environmentalist***


Jun 4, 2017, 8:27 PM



2021 white level member flag link

This was my favorite.........


Jun 4, 2017, 2:21 PM

“By the year 2000, if present trends continue, we will be using up crude oil at such a rate…that there won’t be any more crude oil. You’ll drive up to the pump and say, `Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, `I am very sorry, there isn’t any.'”
• Kenneth Watt, Ecologist

****The millennials are like, what are you talking about,"Filler up buddy!"?

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do you remember gas rationing?


Jun 4, 2017, 2:28 PM

if your license plate had an even number, you could buy gas on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Odd numbers on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday (something like that). And you would be like 10th in line at the gas station (on good days).

What a fraudulent time that was. I think that's why the children of that era (and I was one) don't believe half the eco-scientific doom & gloom now.

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Re: do you remember gas rationing?

[3]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:33 PM

> if your license plate had an even number, you could
> buy gas on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Odd numbers on
> Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday (something like that).
> And you would be like 10th in line at the gas
> station (on good days).
>
> What a fraudulent time that was. I think that's why
> the children of that era (and I was one) don't
> believe half the eco-scientific doom & gloom now.

Good God your memory is terrible. That was OPEC cynically cutting production to drive the price of crude up. Actually they're doing the opposite right now, and trying to drive the price down so they put the domestic oil-frakkers out of business here in the USA. Whereupon they will have the kind of control they once enjoyed in the 1970's...doing stuff like you just described.

If you really want to stop the bad guys, at least acknowledge who they are, what they're doing, and as GI Joe once said, Knowing Is Half The Battle, and all that...

Lordy.

A slightly dated article, but it gives you the point about what OPEC's up to:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/07/opec-plan-kill-us-shale-oil-price-down-seven-year-low

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Re: do you remember gas rationing?


Jun 4, 2017, 2:37 PM

Stop using science

Stop explaining global economics

Don't mention economic warfare

Fingers in ears

Lalalalalalala

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Re: do you remember gas rationing?


Jun 4, 2017, 2:37 PM

Yea.... remember Gore wishing for gas prices to be 5$ a gallon?

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


sorry to trigger you

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:38 PM

I kind of suspected the overly emotional would start chiming in here.

these pics obviously photoshopped:





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19B

I don't think he's arguing that rationing happened.


Jun 4, 2017, 3:43 PM

I think his point is WHY it happened. It wasn't because oil wasn't available for production (as I believe you were insinuating); it was because OPEC deliberately didn't produce or deliver the product to the market.

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probably sore that I called the 70's a "fraudulent time"


Jun 4, 2017, 4:34 PM

but it was. I lived it as a little boy. I just didn't care to write a novel describing all the reasons.

If Cold War USSR didn't wipe us out with nukes, the acid rain would kill us all, or the ozone hole would cause us to burn up, or the coming ice age would freeze us, or the pollution would choke us to death, or we would all run out of gas and oil and devolve back into frontiersmen and pirates.....it was one impending doom after another. These were our leaders too, supposedly our brightest and most learned scholars, saying all this stuff. Absolutely none of it was accurate.

That's why I am so skeptic of everything as an adult. You know me, I'm a reasonable guy. I've just been scammed and swindled a few too many times to accept every impending world disaster we are fed. Fear is a great way to keep people subservient.

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Re: I am very concerned about our planet , Trump just "broke" it

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:24 PM

Same old same old...... give billions to some other country.... then they give some of it back to politicians "foundation." All legal and clean....

Where do trillions go? To other countries.... in turn they make politicians millionaires and billionaires. It's pretty easy to see. I noticed when I was 11...

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


Re: I am very concerned about our planet , Trump just "broke" it

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:47 PM

On top of that, I don't particularly care about giving up a bit more of US sovereignty to a bunch of international bureaucrats who'll have a say in how much I have to pay to heat/cool a house and drive a car. The ones in DC and throughout the Fed and state govts, not to mention the UN, are bad enough. The US has done quite a bit to limit greenhouse gases and will continue to do so, Paris or not, through continued innovation/technology. However, I'm optimistic the CRATS will find other ways to subsidize other countries for their efforts.

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Re: I am very concerned about our planet , Trump just "broke" it


Jun 4, 2017, 3:04 PM

Obviously a taker...lol

TDer all for big government

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Re: I am very concerned about our planet , Trump just "broke" it

[1]
Jun 4, 2017, 2:30 PM

Being a good steward of the earth doesn't mean to me what it does to the leftist....

I'm worried more about clean water than I am about climate change or crude oil.

Previous generations have always solved a problem when there was one at hand. We still have crude and warmer weather allows us a longer growing season. Just need cleaning water for drinking and watering.

These screw balls accomplish nothing more than driving up prices and driving away industry.

Just my two cents

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Re: I am very concerned about our planet , Trump just "broke" it


Jun 4, 2017, 3:23 PM

> Being a good steward of the earth doesn't mean to me
> what it does to the leftist....
>
> I'm worried more about clean water than I am about
> climate change or crude oil.
>
> Previous generations have always solved a problem
> when there was one at hand. We still have crude and
> warmer weather allows us a longer growing season.
> Just need cleaning water for drinking and watering.
>
> These screw balls accomplish nothing more than
> driving up prices and driving away industry.
>
> Just my two cents

That I can absolutely get behind...very much my own take. I really could give two rips about the "environment" and anybody calling me "leftist" would be shocked what I actually think of the left.

The problem is the right is being so in-your-face, brayingly, brazenly stupid right now it's hard for me to keep quiet. Especially when they're being so bloody loud. It hurts my head.

Trying to deny the obvious impact industry can have on the "environment" - which has become a bad word in the right-wing lexicon - is one of them.

Like you, I don't care about the "environment". I do care if there's chromium-6 in my drinking water, or a flood of dumped titanium slurry coming down the river...which is, by the way, lethal in parts per million, and that's the kind of epic, here-and-now disasters unchecked industry will do if there's not someone watching.

I do care if there's no more tuna for my sandwich because idiots overfished them.

Like you, I agree we will fix problems as they arise, and that's probably a lot more realistic than trying to suppress the dirty industries of third-world countries still struggling along with emergent industrial bases.

But I'm leery of the way facts are being discredited or utterly ignored because they're inconvenient. When people start doing it too aggressively in my direction, they're going to get my wrath, because it's a slippery slope from that to fascism and some of these guys seem awfully durn close.

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