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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 10:26 AM
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In the fact that 98% of the posters on this board would always choose what was best for them and their families, especially financially, over their loyalty to a company. If they put the right advisors around them some of these young people have the ability to take this NIL money and secure their retirement and some. It’s creating avenues for these young people to become entrepreneurs and learn how to run a business. And we are angry because they are ruining our entertainment. That’s absurd.
Of course there will be plenty that blow the money, yes it may be an uphill battle in recruiting because of our market. But I’m all for the opportunity that this creates for these young people. America is the land of opportunity, why would we want to inhibit that?
Spare me the cap argument, athletes aren’t capped on endorsements. So it makes no sense. Let’s hope the majority of these guys surround themselves with wise men who help them grow their wealth. If NIL makes you not want to experience the most exciting 25 seconds of college football, or see our tigers continue to beat the crap out of our little sisters in cola, or see all but one rally cat on a beautiful fall afternoon in Death Valley… then you should find something else to do because it’s not going anywhere.
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All-In [30775]
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i don't think it is Irony.. hypocrisy maybe, or just naivety
Jan 7, 2022, 10:30 AM
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It is easy to post stuff on anonymous message boards with zero responsibility or accountability..
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 10:37 AM
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Most houses have more windows than mirrors.
It's much easier for people to look out and judge others than to look within and check themselves.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 10:38 AM
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I think you are being generous with the 98% figure. I say higher!!
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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if they want to be entrepreneurs and business owners.......
Jan 7, 2022, 10:43 AM
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then they can also start by paying:
for their own education
for their own clemson apparel
for their housing
for their meals/nutrition
for their personal trainers
for their medical bills
for their books/laptops or whatever else "NORMAL" students pay for.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: if they want to be entrepreneurs and business owners.......
Jan 7, 2022, 10:53 AM
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Not sure I’d pay much to IPTAY or for tickets to see “normal” kids play football. If I wanted to do that, I would just go over to the intramural fiends during the week.
Your post made no sense Pheebo.
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All-In [30775]
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i would,, it is about Clemson***
Jan 7, 2022, 3:34 PM
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: if they want to be entrepreneurs and business owners.......
Jan 7, 2022, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to if they want to be entrepreneurs and business owners....... ] |
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“Normal” students as you called them, don’t produce revenue for the institution that they attend. “Normal” students have always been free to be entrepreneurs and create revenue for themselves with no governing board stopping them. Also, the school isn’t coming out of pocket for NIL. Nothing changes about their agreement with the school to play there. So your argument is completely invalid and makes absolutely no sense. You only come off as very angry and emotional, lacking logic in your post.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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If that's the case then treat the players like employees....
Jan 7, 2022, 11:13 AM
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or better yet coaches........pay them a salary of "their worth"...........give them bonuses based on their contribution to the team output and revenue generation. At least then the Schools have control of contracts & buyouts to protect them against QB1 heading out to the portal to test waters of the highest bidder.
it's already pay for play hiding behind the facade of NIL.............just go all out.
at this point I'd be ok with that.
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Athletic Dir [858]
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Re: if they want to be entrepreneurs and business owners.......
Jan 7, 2022, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: if they want to be entrepreneurs and business owners....... ] |
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"Normal students" also do not have the benefit of getting $80-100K in tuition and benefits.
Nobody forces these kids to play. We are losing focus on the point of going to college which is to get an education and not merely to play football. 95% of these kids never will get NIL money and they will not go to the pro's either so they should focus on their biggest benefit and make the most of that free education. NIL is only for a tiny select handful...the rest have to just put up with their prima donna NIL player that does not have to work the rest of his life before he has even accomplished anything.
The caveat to this is that they just need to create a football science major that includes playing, coaching, training etc so that many of these players with a genuine aptitude for sports can continue after college with something of value instead of sitting rotting away in an old car like Refrigerator Perry.
If the problem is that you think players should get a slice of the pie, why not include all of the other students? The colleges do not exist merely to create football programs for a few kids to benefit from.
If it comes right down to it I want the money from football programs to be accounted for in terms of reducing tuition for everyone.
The last thing I want to see is college sports to devolve into a lower level professional sport with little interest in being educated.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: if they want to be entrepreneurs and business owners.......
Jan 7, 2022, 12:39 PM
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I think that adults should be free to profit off of themselves and not be hindered from a governing body.
Land of the free, unless it’s gonna change something that I like just the way it is.
And as far as a “slice of the pie” these guys aren’t receiving profit from a school, conference, or the ncaa. Giving it to all students? As I stated in another portion of this thread, those students don’t produce revenue for the school, so why would they be entitled to anything? Terrible arguments you are attempting to make.
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1st Rounder [632]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 10:57 AM
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Tying this to the everyday man is a moot point when you look at how many individuals are asked to sign non-compete clauses in the open market. A true free market would see Billy's Body Shop offering the Tide's 3rd string QB NIL if he comes on over today and brings his play book. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to profit. I'm just saying it's not free market and it doesn't have all the controls of the ordinary work force. You're comparing apples to kumquats.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 11:03 AM
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I see people throw out the "bring a playbook" thing a lot but it doesn't make sense. You know there's a reason coaches review film to prepare for their opponents before a game right? By the time a game rolls around the opposing teams DC knows all the plays the other team runs outside of maybe a trick play or some other play the team came up with leading up to the game.
So it's not like a playbook is going to give any new information to an opposing coach. A player transferring over to a new team wouldn't be aware of any adjustments made by his former team the week leading up to a game.
If what you're saying was a thing then it'd be a huge issue in the NFL where guys can get cut and sign with a new team all the time. You'd also see teams having to make massive changes to everything they do each time an assistant coach leaves to take a new job.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 11:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: Does anyone else see the irony ] |
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Im not comparing DJ doing a Dr Pepper commercial with USUCK’s valedictorian from 2017 who decided to sign a non compete to deep fry chicken at bojangles and now can’t go work at KFC because they are offering him 87 cents more an hour and a free fill up every shift.
I’m comparing the free worlds ability to not only make money but make free decisions to make even more money everyday.
I’ve personally never signed a non compete and would never. If you choose to do so, good for you. I’m not sure how we got here anyway but I appreciate the trip.
I think you are also overestimating the value of a playbook. Enough film and you have a live playbook. Will coaches have to adapt to some language they use? Probably, but they do that anyway.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: Does anyone else see the irony ] |
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Yea I never understood the comparisons of a college student voluntarily playing football to doing what I do to make ends meet. By all means pay up like everybody else that goes to school. Well the coach can leave? That’s right he has a job. Playing college football is not a job so quit making it sound like it is. Stupid comparison in my opinion.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:14 PM
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Right, it’s not a job. This is NIL which means Name, Image, and likeness. By all means a legal adult should be able to profit off of who they are at any time.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:22 PM
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Worth millions? It’s pay for play they can call it what ever they want to. NIL sounds fair though. Just makes little sense to offer so called NIL’s to high school kids that are coming in that has never played a down. How the hell do they know if the NIL of a particular player will work out. They are paying the players to come to their university under the guise of the NIL. It’s not real hard to figure out. Yea but I agree if TL or Shipley jerseys are selling at the Tiger Sports Shop not think cutting them in is a big problem
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:29 PM
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You realize many teams were already paying players, right? Tennessee was literally handing out McDonald’s bags with cash a couple of years ago. Are people going to take advantage, of course they are. That’s what crappy people do. That doesn’t deny the right of adults to profit off of who they are.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:40 PM
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I’m not saying it has never been done. It happens everywhere but it was not the right thing to do and if they had been caught their could have been consequences for the program. We are not talking about $100 handshakes. This is millions to get kids to sign. It’s either an amateur sport or it’s not. When I’m thinking NIL I’m thinking I buy a #16 jersey TL should get a kick back on that; not setting up a fake LLC to funnel TL a million to sign with Clemson.
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Freshman [8]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 11:03 AM
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Avenues for these young people to become entrepreneurs? Think about the average 18 year old. I'm sure that's exactly what's on the forefront of most of their minds. If it is, then the free education would be more beneficial than the money, but hey, they shouldn't have to wait for anything, should they? That's the world today.
The opportunity NIL creates for these young people is increased selfishness, misplaced priorities and a warped sense of values as they become pawns in the hands of corporate America or some rich booster who now has a legitimate avenue to hand a sack of money to an 18 year old who's never seen that much money in his life.
What about the mental, physical, emotional well-being of these boys who are trying to become adult men (by the way, age doesn't equal your maturity level)? Who cares about that? This NIL world will do more harm than good to these kids' lives and is diametrically opposed the goals that CDS and the current Clemson football program seek to accomplish.
The implication that being set for retirement at 18 = someone's best interests / happiness? That's pretty weak.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 11:21 AM
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Let’s try and work through this one.
No kids don’t think about being entrepreneurs, which is why the point was made that this helps create that for them. You realize it takes money to make money? Give me $5 million and an old farmer in my ear and I’ll never worry about anything again. That being said, these kids are still getting a free education. They just get the money as well.
The rest of your post revolves around maturity and mindset and I can appreciate this. I believe I said that hopefully they are surrounding themselves with wise advisors. Some obviously won’t and will make poor decisions. Money doesn’t change you, it only enhances who you are.
I’m glad you brought up Dabo because I think he’s a very valuable piece to this puzzle. Think about how a young man who is becoming independently wealthy and setting himself up for life at such a young age, who is being guided by a man like Dabo. What a great situation. Why does it have to be either or? It can be both and. These kids can make a lot of money and become great people in life and do good with that wealth. Especially with role models like Dabo in their life. Of course the university’s need to have a good structure to help guide these young men and the good ones will.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:07 PM
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I’m going to say the chances of an 18 year old making money to make more money is a very low percentage. Look how it has worked out for those in the NFL. They have folks that teach them how to manage money because they know most won’t have any of it in 10 years. Just the reality of people in general. Not many do the right or smart thing.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:12 PM
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You are right. I think you changed my mind. They should stop paying athletes, all of them. I mean what’s the point? Some of them are just gonna blow it all anyway so just don’t pay any of them.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:45 PM
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Not going to argue with you. When you say pay are we talking realistic numbers to keep all teams competitive or are we talking Texas or Texas A&M money that most schools in the nation can’t compete with. Needs to be a balance somewhere because none of this long term will help college football if we want fair competition. I for one do not think a National Championship should be paid for with BS LLC’s.
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110%er [8530]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Does anyone else see the irony ] |
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Anyone really thinks that an 18 year old having $1 million by way will set him up for life has never lived on his own and paid taxes and bills.
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110%er [8095]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 11:27 AM
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You have not convinced me.
I still say NIL is ruining college football.
Most of the supporters of NIL say coaches make way too much money and it's time the players "get some". Well, giving the players "some" or lots, is not solving the problem of coaches making too much money. It's time for the NFL to fund their own developmental league and let college football be for STUDENT-athletes.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Nothing wrong with that if you can get the student athletes to sign away their right to use NIL as long as they are at the schools. The on field product would be a shell of its former self.
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All-In [30775]
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it doesn't.. but the schools didnt
Jan 7, 2022, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Does anyone else see the irony ] |
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do anything to address that argument for the last decade.
NCAA couldn't dodge it when they tried to put up a fight .
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110%er [8530]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 11:34 AM
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Absolutely right because are plenty of cases where NBA or NFL players are not prepared to handle the money they have and wind up broke. First of all, if were playing in the Championship game I doubt there would be many sour grape fans blaming NIL. We lost 3 games and the world has not stopped and football is not on the brink of disaster.
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Standout [304]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:48 PM
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There are also plenty of cases of regular joes blowing their cash, and plenty of cases of pro athletes doing great with their money.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 12:54 PM
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Me blowing my extra $100 a week is different than the millions these guys have made and read about later because they have nothing. It’s sad but not many people could handle the kind of money these guys make especially those that have not had much their whole life.
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All-In [44026]
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I'm okay with them having the opportunity
Jan 7, 2022, 12:44 PM
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to have endorsement deals.
Many of these guys are very marketable based on their football talents, and the high profile programs for which they play. With all of the money involved in college football today, it only makes sense for athletes to get a cut.
The problem, though, is that it continues to push the idea of student-athlete farther away from what it was intended to be: a four year period of life where young men go to college to be educated at a high level, to prepare them to better themselves and society. Playing a sport for the school you attend was more like a hobby or an interest, not the main priority when attending college.
Most of the players who are looking at NIL deals are going to college because of their sport, with the hope of playing professional football. They aren't there for academic reasons. Some of them are high caliber students who would've been admitted to their school of choice as a general student, but the overwhelming majority aren't.
Colleges and universities today are perfectly happy to accept these students, most of whom are poor candidates for admission based on their academic record, as long as they meet some minimum standard, simply because they are good at a marketable sport like football. The same is true for the other revenue-generating sport, men's basketball. It's making a mockery of higher education.
Alumni are generally happy to allow this to happen, because they love having strong athletic teams. Most don't care that their school has made significant exceptions to its academic standards for these select athletes. They justify this because sports are an important rallying point for alumni, and also provides great marketing and revenue for the school. In turn, coaches get insane salaries for coaching, and athletes get good coaching, training, and many perks, including academic tutoring to keep them eligible.
I realize that NIL hasn't caused these problems. This farce has been going on for decades. NIL has just made it slightly worse, moving us farther away from the idea of higher education and student athlete.
I don't blame the athletes or the coaches for making this system work for them. Not one bit. But I do blame the schools. They are mostly spineless "leaders" and administrators who don't seem to have a problem with any of it. Shame on them.
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Standout [304]
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Re: I'm okay with them having the opportunity
Jan 7, 2022, 12:53 PM
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Judge, love reading your posts, but this one? Show me the proof that the overwhelming majority of these athletes couldn’t get admission. And last I heard our sports teams did pretty well in the classroom, maybe better than the Clemson gen pop did GPA wise.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I'm okay with them having the opportunity
Jan 7, 2022, 12:58 PM
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Always figured it was a known fact that these guys do not have to meet the same standards as a regular college student. They also get their hand held all the way through with tutors. Not saying it’s a bad thing but if you keep your head down and give effort you are going to graduate. They make sure if it.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I'm okay with them having the opportunity
Jan 7, 2022, 1:17 PM
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We all suspect that big-time student athletes sometimes aren't the best and the brightest academically.
Some highlights:
Football players average 220 points lower on the SAT than their classmates. Men's basketball was 227 points lower.
University of Florida won the prize for biggest gap between football players and the student body, with players scoring 346 points lower than their peers.
Georgia Tech had the nation's best average SAT score for football players, 1028 of a possible 1600, and best average high school GPA, 3.39 of a possible 4.0. But because its student body is apparently very smart, Tech's football players still scored 315 SAT points lower than their classmates.
UCLA, which has won more NCAA championships in all sports than any other school, had the biggest gap between the average SAT scores of athletes in all sports and its overall student body, at 247 points.
Some "universal truths," according to the Journal-Constitution:
All 53 schools for which football SAT scores were available had at least an 88-point gap between team members' average score and the average for the student body.
Schools with the highest admissions standards, such as Georgia Tech, the University of Virginia, the University of California-Berkeley, UCLA, and the University of North Carolina, had the biggest gaps between the SAT averages for athletes and the overall student body.
Football players performed 115 points worse on the SAT than male athletes in other sports.
The differences between athletes' and non-athletes' SAT scores were less than half as big for women (73 points) as for men (170).
Many schools routinely used a special admissions process to admit athletes who did not meet the normal entrance requirements. More than half of scholarship athletes at the University of Georgia, the University of Wisconsin, Clemson University, UCLA, Rutgers University, Texas A&M University and Louisiana State University were special admits. . . At Georgia, for instance, 73.5 percent of athletes were special admits compared with 6.6 percent of the student body as a whole.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I'm okay with them having the opportunity
Jan 7, 2022, 1:21 PM
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Older article but there are a lot more like them when you Google athlete admissions vs the rest of the student body.
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Hall of Famer [24729]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 1:01 PM
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I disagree with you. It will change the landscape of college football. It will be about who can pay more and college football will never be the same. Clemson may never win another national title. Texas A&M may get a few though.
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Commissioner [976]
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I think 98% of posters
Jan 7, 2022, 1:12 PM
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Also realize this is short sighted because it is terrible for the sport and will be terrible for future players and some current players.
The system we have had for years seems to work great. You pick a school, get an education, and then either go pro or you have a huge network of support as a result of meeting so many people at one school for 4 years.
The current system there is no loyalty either way. So if you’re a mid tiered player, you’re not getting much NIL, and you’re transferring, sometimes more than once, not developing relationships that will end in a good job.
The NIL and portal are great for a tiny group of players, most of whom end up in the NFL anyway.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: I think 98% of posters
Jan 7, 2022, 1:22 PM
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But according to your post NIL and portal are only great for a tiny group of players. So the players it doesn’t affect still reap the benefits of the old “system” and the the ones it does affect if done correctly could reap benefits of both?
Freedom is terrible for no one or no thing. Adults should be free to earn money based off of themselves. Not forbidden to because of some archaic system. Had the NCAA and the conferences addressed this issue years ago and started building an infrastructure to support it we wouldn’t have the craziness that’s in Texas right now. But they didn’t, everyone just kept grabbing every dollar they could and assumed the “system” would stay great forever.
Again just because it evolves past what you deem as suitable for your entertainment doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It means you are selfish.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I think 98% of posters
Jan 7, 2022, 1:39 PM
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Again just because it evolves past what you deem as suitable for your entertainment doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It means you are selfish. Tigerman
And it does not mean you are self rightous or correct either just means everyone does not agree with your point of view.
Message was edited by: rhpltmeg®
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All-In [36409]
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I Bet a Large Portion Wouldn't Violate Contracts and Screw
Jan 7, 2022, 1:26 PM
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Other entities over w/o cause just for greed.
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Legend [15870]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 2:43 PM
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Before I post my opinion I want to say I love sports, played sports and love Clemson athletics.
I would not have a problem with NIL if like every other student, student athletes that make money from NIL should have to pay their own tuition, books etc… that come with a scholarship. The only reason they are making money is because they can play football or some other sport. What about a kid who used his mind which also benefit’s Clemson financially Do you think these students should be compensated?? They should be able to market their minds for money just like athletes market their athletic skills playing a sport.
Clemson football player’s benefit from DV stadium which can see for miles, they benefit for playing on TV (which doesn’t cost them any $$), talk radio, and other media outlets. That’s a lot of free advertising for student athletes.
Programs sold a games purchased by fans benefit student athletes financially ( again at no charge ) fans who wear Clemson sports wear help athletes make money from NIL.
Without the fans there would be no money ?????? for NIL. Without the fans and TV money there may not be enough money to even field a team. Athletes that make it to the NFL benefit from Clemson’s strength and conditioning program, coaching, exposure a long with money other perks because they are athletes. Some of that from taxpayers ??????.
I feel the same way about people who make 6 figure or more in income. They should have to pay their kids tuition. Pell grants and other grants should be for those kids whose family cannot afford their kids tuition.
I love college athletics but we have enabled these athletes to the point some feel they are the school. Some feel they should have more say in the direction of college athletics. They are doing a pretty good job of controlling college athletics. ESPN , other sports media and other corporations are going to eventually control college athletics. They have a good foothold into college athletics now.
I don’t know what the answers but what they are doing now with NIL and TP has put college football into a chaotic mess. Rather than a team sport it’s becoming everyone for themselves.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Agree 100 percent well said.
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Legend [15745]
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Re: Does anyone else see the irony
Jan 7, 2022, 3:53 PM
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It’s creating avenues for these young people to become entrepreneurs and learn how to run a business. And we are angry because they are ruining our entertainment.
There's nothing absurd about it. When the purity of amateur athletic scholar-athletes is overwhelmed by the overt free-for-all money grab/player grab, it becomes unenjoyable to some. If that's not you, continue to enjoy it.
But I’m all for the opportunity that this creates for these young people. America is the land of opportunity, why would we want to inhibit that?
When the purity of amateur athletic scholar-athletes is overwhelmed by the overt free-for-all money grab/player grab, it becomes unenjoyable to some.
Spare me the cap argument, athletes aren’t capped on endorsements.
1) By "athletes" I assume you mean professional athletes. Those are professionals.
2) Professional athlete endorsement deals are just that. Endorsement deals. Not thinly-veiled purchasing of the athlete to come play for, say, Green Bay. The NIL deal has literally made college football more wild-west than professional athletics...there is no cap (and I don't think we need to pretend that Texas A&M, USC, Texas, etc, aren't coordinating NIL packages to recruits, both in high school and the transfer portal), there is no contract. There sure as heck isn't any interest in attending school.
Look, I'll continue watching most Clemson games. I still love Dabo as a coach and love the program he has created. They don't get a dime out of me anymore, but I'll still enjoy watching probably eight or so games a year. But that's it. No other college football (or sports in general, but college basketball lost its luster long ago) is interesting to me. But to you, it is. That's fine.
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Legend [17767]
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It’s like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife***
Jan 7, 2022, 5:18 PM
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