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Commissioner [979]
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A Story
Sep 17, 2021, 2:17 AM
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I am a husband and father of 2. Both my kids attend school in the upstate here, and my daughter was sent home on 8/28. both of my kids are under the current ages to be vaccinated. A classmate tested positive, she was in a room with him, just a precaution. No signs or symptoms from her, just wait it out. Ok. Wife is a stay at home mom dealing with a ton of auto immune stuff and has some hesitancy about the vaccine based on advice from her physicians. Plural, she has several, she turned 40 recently and the last year and a half has been a f'ing nightmare for both of us, more for her, mine is watching a beautiful vibrant woman who I love dearly struggle. 9/2 the wife has a sniffle isn't feeling well. Calls doctors, they recommend getting tested. She's positive and since I have been exposed along with it and my kids, we are all staying home. I let work know, no biggie, duces. 9/5 she is nearly being hospitalized, fever, cant breathe coughing the usual. Doctors recommend and antibody injection, we both agree because she's heading for the grave otherwise. Get's the thing, two hours later no fever...but shivering like hypothermia or someone dealing with serious withdrawals. This continues for three days. But it seems she is getting better, but that cough (non smoker) won't let up. Still hasn't to this day. I call my employer, my doctor to set up a test for me so I can think about going back to work, knowing my wife can still barely make it down a hallway without collapsing but needs must. Test scheduled. Ya boy Paul is positive. I had this last November and coughed for 2 months and couldn't smell or taste for a month after. I am pretty nervous but also having it and I got vaccinated in July and Aug. 2 weeks exactly before her positive test. She's still pulling through, today she drove to Starbucks with my daughter and was the first time she had been out since her last doctor visit. Came home and slept most of day after from exhaustion. I've been fortunate, other than being positive and had a runny nose one morning (two days prior to test) and nothing else. Take care of yourself people. Please. Get it or don't I do not care, but don't dissuade others from doing it based on a radio host (they've been dying a lot recently) or something your Uncle Zelbert said or posted on Facebook. Talk to your doctors, clergy, and get the data and make an informed choice.
Thanks yall. P
Message was edited by: deletedmemory®
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All-In [40798]
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did I get this correct?
Sep 17, 2021, 4:49 AM
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First off, I am glad your wife is doing better.
Did you say, you had covid in Nov with symptoms, vaxxed recently, and then still got covid again a month later?
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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That's what he said.
Sep 17, 2021, 6:36 AM
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I pray she recovers quickly.
He's one of roughly 3%. Foreign data of course. The study from Israel where they said natural immunity is better. Well for them to find that they had to track reinfections. Everyone was so anxious to say it's better to get it naturally and vaccines don't work... They missed the part of the study that says natural immunity doesn't work forever... Just works better.
Here's the kicker.... Would Paul have gotten tested at all had he not been going back to work? Pretend none of this happened where Paul knew anything. Has he felt bad enough to get tested? His time line seems to be accurate too. Natural immunity is stronger and lasts longer than the vaccines. But after about 10 months they too wane. That is data from an old study in Brazil. That 3% is probably an undercount because that 3% had symptoms severe enough to get tested. Did Paul? Would Paul have even gotten tested under different circumstances?
It's the children driving this now. He never mentioned if his daughter was tested. This is what is also ignored. These kids exercising their individual right to refuse to wear a mask and these schools who are getting nailed... Those kids go home to someone. A parent. Maybe a parent in poor health. The idea that a mask is a personal choice that has no impact on others is probably the biggest reason for Florida's death chart I posted. Sure the kids have a chance of dying no different than the flu. They'll be fine. Well... They go home to parents. Hug grandparents.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full-textComparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections Background Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear.
Methods We conducted a retrospective observational study comparing three groups: (1)SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals who received a two-dose regimen of the BioNTech/Pfizer mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine, (2)previously infected individuals who have not been vaccinated, and (3)previously infected and single dose vaccinated individuals. Three multivariate logistic regression models were applied. In all models we evaluated four outcomes: SARS-CoV-2 infection, symptomatic disease, COVID-19-related hospitalization and death. The follow-up period of June 1 to August 14, 2021, when the Delta variant was dominant in Israel.
Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant ( P <0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.
Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.
### Competing Interest Statement
The authors have declared no competing interest.
### Funding Statement
There was no external funding for the project.
### Author Declarations
I confirm all relevant ethical guidelines have been followed, and any necessary IRB and/or ethics committee approvals have been obtained.
Yes
The details of the IRB/oversight body that provided approval or exemption for the research described are given below:
This study was approved by the MHS (Maccabi Healthcare Services) Institutional Review Board (IRB). Due to the retrospective design of the study, informed consent was waived by the IRB, and all identifying details of the participants were removed before computational analysis.
All necessary patient/participant consent has been obtained and the appropriate institutional forms have been archived.
Yes
I understand that all clinical trials and any other prospective interventional studies must be registered with an ICMJE-approved registry, such as ClinicalTrials.gov. I confirm that any such study reported in the manuscript has been registered and the trial registration ID is provided (note: if posting a prospective study registered retrospectively, please provide a statement in the trial ID field explaining why the study was not registered in advance).
Yes
I have followed all appropriate research reporting guidelines and uploaded the relevant EQUATOR Network research reporting checklist(s) and other pertinent material as supplementary files, if applicable.
Yes
According to the Israel Ministry of Health regulations, individual-level data cannot be shared openly. Specific requests for remote access to de-identified community-level data should be directed to KSM, Maccabi Healthcare Services Research and Innovation Center.
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All-In [40798]
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All 6 people that were in my office a month ago got Covid
Sep 17, 2021, 6:59 AM
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all 6 were vaccinated 3-4 months earlier. It seems obvious which one was the spreader because he had minor symptoms a day or two before and the others didn't get sick until 2-3 days after.
If the vaccine was 50% effective against infection then the odds of all 6 vaccinated people getting infected is 1/2^6 or about 1.5%
It seems really common that my case is more normal and all the news articles with these great statistics seem to be wrong. It's just a moving target. This months studies might be good but last months are already out of date and those that write articles use whatever study they can find whenever it was made as long as it follows their agenda/hypothesis.
When this started, pfizer and moderna were 90% effective against infection. The odds of all 6 of us getting infected with a 90% rate is 1/.1^6 or .0001%
We all got sick, not too sick just really bad cold and headache and loss of smell and fever for a couple of days. Not everyone had every symptom except the cold/sinus symptoms and none had worse symptoms.
The person that most likely was the super spreader had the moderna vaccine.
BOOSTERS is the answer! And 8 months is the time because it was 8 months since vaccinations started when they decided boosters was the answer.
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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Everyone has "gotten" covid.
Sep 17, 2021, 9:25 AM
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A percentage of them never knew. A percentage of them felt bad. A smaller percentage got very sick and were put in a hospital, and an even smaller percentage died.
Vaccine effectiveness starts with a (usually) symptomatic positive PCR tests, and then is further measured against hospitalizations and then against deaths. Nothing in the VE equation takes into account transmission. And honestly, to study transmission you really have to destroy some freedom. For example, a good way to study transmission would be to identify an outbreak, a positive case, say in a crowded factory. Immediately, upon that first person feeling sick, you take the entire factory section where that person worked. You seperate and quarantine everyone, in isolation, and then run PCR tests daily, through 80 cycles, measuring viral loads. Those who do become infected, you monitor their viral loads from the onset of the first signs of infection on a sensitive PCR test, right up through symptoms, then right on through recovery. After about a month and some change, you release everyone. Go back and look at those viral loads. You had a captive outbreak that you could then measure from very early on and see the progression of disease in a quarantined population from the first PCR signs, right up through symptoms and recovery. China just so happened to do this. Catching many infections before any symptoms were present. They found the virus literally explodes in your body replicating rapidly, faster than other known viruses. You reach a peak viral load within a day or two, and that peak viral load remains for about 6 days (roughly), symptoms start around that 6th day of "infection". Viral loads only decline around the time symptoms present. So there is your transmission. They found that this process, explosive viral replication, and 6 days of high viral loads (1,000 times higher with Delta than Wuhan) before symptoms start, is almost identical between mRNA vaccinated people and unvaccinated people. The ASSUMPTION is that the spread is therefore similar, and that's probably a safe assumption. AFTER day 6, ct counts climb for those vaccinated much faster, meaning they clear the virus much faster, when compared to the unvaccinated.
All the vaccines do, any vaccines, OR prior infections, all that any of that "immunity" does, is help you clear the virus and recover. Prior to symptoms, or even without symptoms present, the viral loads and shedding are essentially the same. Vaccine or not.
And there is a reason for this that they're studying very carefully. There's science behind all of this. Read up on the part in this article that talks about interferons. Interferons are literally the very first immune response we have when a cell is infected. They signal to our immune system that there is an infected cell, and a virus. Without them, your IMMUNE SYSTEM AND IMMUNITY DOES NOT KNOW YOU ARE INFECTED. It is covid's biggest trick, and what makes covid unique in the virus world. No virus has ever stopped interferons to the level covid has. And they've learned, each major upgrade in variants, from Wuhan to Alpha, and from Alpha to Delta, the biggest difference in the virus R0, transmissibility, has come from increased interferon suppression, which is what allows such explosive and rapid replication. That is why the British variant was more transmissible than the Wuhan version, and why the Indian (Delta) variant is more transmissible than the British variant. Each step in evolution is favoring increased interferon suppression, which is what causes all that I mentioned to happen. It explains why I say, vaccines only help you fight the virus once you know to fight it. Until then, prior immunity, vaccine immunity, whatever, all immunity makes no difference until your body is signaled to USE IT. HOWEVER, at that time, it becomes critically important to your level of "illness". With Delta, immunity notwithstanding, you have far more virus to clear, making it symptomatic for many more vaccinated people, and more severe for those unvaccinated. Interferon suppression is also why kids get it now almost like adults. Children have higher levels of interferons, and they naturally decrease with age. The increased suppression with Delta has allowed it to enter the population of children easier. This is the science why the statement that vaccines prevent transmission is FALSE, and why that obituary the dude posted above is based on BAD information (from the liberals, democrats, CDC, and government). They know all the science, and they chose to KEEP that misinformation knowing the vaccines do little to nothing to stop transmission. They also know they still help keep people out of hospitals and they didn't want that message to be lost with "new" information.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02039-y
Key part: Finally, the virus shuts down the cell’s alarm system. This happens in numerous ways, but Stern-Ginossar’s team identified one clear mechanism for SARS-CoV-2: the virus prevents cellular mRNA from getting out of the nucleus, including instructions for proteins meant to alert the immune system to infection. A second team confirmed this finding, and again pointed to Nsp1: the protein seems to jam up exit channels in the nucleus so nothing can escape15.
Because gene transcripts can’t get out of the nucleus, the infected cells don’t release many interferons — these are signalling proteins that alert the immune system to the presence of a virus. SARS-Cov-2 is particularly efficient at shutting down this alarm system: compared with other respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV and respiratory syncytial virus, SARS-CoV-2 infection induces significantly lower levels of interferons16. And this June, researchers reported mutations in the Alpha variant that seem to enable it to subdue interferon production even more efficiently17.
“It’s clear that SARS-CoV-2 is a very fast virus that has a unique ability to prevent our immune system from recognizing and combating infection in the first stages,” says Stern-Ginossar. By the time the immune system does realize there is a virus, there is so much of it that immune-response proteins sometimes flood the bloodstream at a faster rate than normal — which can cause damage. Doctors saw early in the pandemic that some people with COVID-19 who become very ill are harmed by an overactive immune response to SARS-CoV-2, as well as by the virus itself. Some proven treatments work by dampening down this immune response.
The vaccine does not "protect" you from "getting" covid. It protects you from getting severely sick, and dying. Everyone "gets" covid. Probably already has. I know this is a hard concept to understand, but when I mention all this stuff depends on your definition of "infection", it really is key to understanding everything. The science on this is very bad. What the virus does is something that means it will be around forever, and future mutations will assuredly carry even higher viral loads and increased immune suppression. Scientists are worried about the virus evolving to escape the vaccines with a spike protein mutation, and that's a valid worry. The effectivity of the vaccine on the spike protein is still very high though, and that's where the vaccines still shine. HOWEVER, they do nothing to stop the TRANSMISSION, and won't. Vaccines do nothing to address the level of virus your immune system encounters when it knows you are sick. They only impact how well you eliminate the virus once your immune system knows to eliminate it, and that's where it still saves MANY lives. And although there are no studies on this, I imagine prior infection will do no more good in this area, as again the benefits of immunity are all useless until your body knows to use your immunity.
The virus is evolving to circumvent our immune systems, not our vaccines or immunity. It has beaten our very first line of immune defense, and learned how to stop any immune response, vaccine or none, for a period long enough to let it explosively replicate. It is becoming more severe by replicating more before we can fight it, not by escaping our vaccines or immunity. Our immune systems are therefore presented with larger and larger amounts of virus, spread to places viruses never go, because no virus has ever been able to sneak in and make itself at home for such an extended period. It gets into more areas of our anatomy where we generally don't fight viruses because viruses never get there. Hence the innumerable symptoms and organs and areas where we see symptoms and disease.
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Commissioner [979]
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Re: Everyone has "gotten" covid.
Sep 17, 2021, 4:26 PM
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Data dump there brother.
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Commissioner [979]
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Re: That's what he said.
Sep 17, 2021, 4:28 PM
[ in reply to That's what he said. ] |
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Daughter wasn't tested. Kept at home of course, if any symptoms had shown then yes would have been. My kids and frankly 99% of their classmates are wearing masks. They're taking it serious at least in our section of district 5. rest of post is spot on, kid goes home, wifes health isnt great, Covid.
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Commissioner [979]
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Re: did I get this correct?
Sep 17, 2021, 4:25 PM
[ in reply to did I get this correct? ] |
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apparently yes. May have been a false positive idk, I treated it as active though however, because I wouldn't wish what I had to watch wife go through on anyone else.
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