Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
devils advocate- Brownell
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 27
| visibility 1

devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 11:43 AM

What are realistic expectations? Jut looked it up to see for myself-
Brownell- .568 overall winning percentage at clemson acc- .481
Barnes- .607 overall at clemson acc- .438
Purnell- .605 overall at Clemson acc- .446
Ellis- .580 overall at clemson acc- .384

ellis, barnes, and brownell - 1 trip each to sweet 16, Purnell- never won NCAA game

Dating back to 1984 Clemson has had a few good years but never a consistent winner in basketball. Is it coaching or is it just a difficult place to get big time basketball recruits because of the lack of tradition and it being a rural area with a rollercoaster fan base when it comes to basketball? If not Brownell, who would you suggest they go after?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 11:52 AM

Niko Medved

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 11:58 AM

He just re-upped at CSU.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 12:35 PM [ in reply to Re: devils advocate- Brownell ]

I heard he is in the Ukraine

badge-donor-05yr.jpgringofhonor-74tiger.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 1:23 PM [ in reply to Re: devils advocate- Brownell ]

braker® said:

Niko Medved




Not only did he reup at CSU, he had several options at jobs better than Clemson but declined. Apparently he has his eye on a big time school. We will see a lot of this just like coot football did the last two coaching searches. The fanbase is delusional into thinking they will have their choice of coaches but the most wanted want no part of your school. The result is if we fire CBB we will end up with someone we barely know about...

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 12:02 PM

You are highlighting the two main viewpoints on Brownell in one post. A) It's the head coach. B) It's more than just the head coach.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

This is not the same high quality ACC in basketball


Mar 15, 2022, 12:02 PM

that those other coaches had to endure. Expansion, and now the conference's terrible TV contract, have made this league a shell of itself in basketball, so comparing winning %'s across decades does no good. My eyes and not the #'s tell me everything I need to know, and that is the simple fact that it is time for a change within this stale program.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

But something has to be said for deepening of the league w/


Mar 15, 2022, 2:08 PM

the Big East teams that really made the league tougher to navigate. Maybe not that the blue bloods got better but the league talent became more spread out. Maybe not this year so much but since Brad has been here I would say the ACC is tougher sledding. NCAA bball as a whole has gotten more watered down and parity now reigns. So comparing his tenure to previous tenures is really tough to do with any confidence.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 12:15 PM

Apples and oranges—-, Purnell and Barnes had to take over dumpster fires and still had a better winning percentage overall than Brownell. Brownell was handed program in a very good shape and he has not improved it.

His one trip to the Sweet 16 took much longer than the other guys.

it’s just beating a dead horse, things are never going to get better

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 16, 2022, 6:39 AM

Cdixon11 said:

Apples and oranges—-, Purnell and Barnes had to take over dumpster fires and still had a better winning percentage overall than Brownell. Brownell was handed program in a very good shape and he has not improved it.

His one trip to the Sweet 16 took much longer than the other guys.

it’s just beating a dead horse, things are never going to get better



Guess you missed the empty recruiting year when OP left? Or the fact that CBB had to rebuild the roster due to featuring a different style of play? Or LJ being at the end of its useful life being a run down, rusting out dated facility? Or Brad having to raise money to fund player amenities in the new facility which were not part of the original concept?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Oh no another BB family member or staffer with a new account


Mar 15, 2022, 12:16 PM

How do y'all have so much free time to manage so many different Tnet accounts? Do you have a twitter manager too?

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Clemson doesn't care about basketball....as evidenced by Brown-L getting 14 years.


Re: Oh no another BB family member or staffer with a new account


Mar 15, 2022, 12:29 PM

Actually have zero affiliation with Clemson basketball. My only affiliation is that I'm a clemson graduate. Simply asked a question after pointing out the winning percentages of the last 4 head coaches. Didnt say Brownell should stay or go. Just asked what are the expectations. I guess your opinion that he should go is the only one that should be accepted.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 12:16 PM

I like Brownell and think we should keep him unless Clemson decides to put major money/emphasis into basketball (which ain't happening). However, you cannot compare his winning % to prior coaches (especially Barnes). That was a MUCH tougher ACC back in the day...it's not even comparable. Rick Barnes would have Clemson in the current ACC in the top tier.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell - please send to Tiger Neg


Mar 15, 2022, 12:33 PM

The team this year finally got it together, with a healthy Hall, Tyson returning and some good freshman coming in plus a couple of tough transfers, this could be his best team ever. GIVE HIM A CHANCE. Brownell leaves and some of our players may go with him.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell - please send to Tiger Neg


Mar 15, 2022, 1:00 PM

"this could be his best team ever. GIVE HIM A CHANCE."

That's funny! :-D That is what some would be saying about a 7-year college student who hasn't graduated.

Boosters have pumped a whole lot of money into the program already. It's time for a coaching change.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Greg Buckner.


Mar 15, 2022, 12:45 PM

Outside of ever being a head coach, he's got college and NBA chops and has a budding coaching career in the making. He knows what Clemson basketball is capable of developing into, loves him some Tigertown, and he's a people person. Dabo in football and UNC's Hubert Davis are good examples to date of coaches moving into head positions for the first time and finding success (Davis' sample size is admittedly small though with only season). Plus, as several have pointed out before, this would be a different approach to hiring a head coach than we've ever taken, which can't be all bad considering our past "success" here.

Would a PJ Hall appreciate an NBA vet coming in and helping with his further development towards that aim? Someone who would connect with the student body and fan base that has a passionate belief about our potential?

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 12:48 PM

The quality of the ACC back then was 10x better back then. Look at the all conference teams back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_All-Atlantic_Coast_Conference_men%27s_basketball_teams

The league has been very weak the past couple of years. Ellis, Barnes and Purnell years were much tougher.

Barnes' first year...first team All ACC

Joe Smith

Jerry Stackhouse

Randolph Childress

Tim Duncan

Rasheed Wallace

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 1:37 PM

Purnell not really. That was about as weak of an era as you can get when he was rebuilding. Duke was fading, UNC was lost, and Paul Hewitt could make a run. OP kinda got luck in the rebuild timing.

Next the Barnes era is more interesting. No one and done, fewer Div1 teams, fewer if no TV access for mid-majors. I remember being shocked to see VCU on cable - even for the CAA tourney now it is just another package in the regular season. Heck you might see UNC Asheville on ESPN...U

Thus all power teams were basically stronger but that also mean the Barnes had a richer pool. There are only but a few Stackhouses or Duncan and they are still being poached by the elites. However now the Buckner of the world don't have to go to some mid-bottom power power conference team. They can go to the A10 and get the same exposure and even hardware while they are at it. So the ACC was stronger but than today but also had a stronger resource pool. Now things are diluted and that makes it ... easier?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 2:34 PM

I stand corrected on Purnell years...overall ACC was down on talent. That said there were some good teams and UNC was far from lost, reaching 3 final 4s and winning 2 championships.

2004 2nd Georgia Tech
2004 3rd Duke
2005 1st North Carolina
2008 4th North Carolina
2009 1st North Carolina
2010 1st Duke

Still I agree, this was not a great ACC decade with regard to depth of teams and talent.

Still rather have Purnell vs BB

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 1:51 PM [ in reply to Re: devils advocate- Brownell ]

Unfortunately the Clemson basketball job is really not that attractive in terms of. We hired Purnell from Dayton where he was basically mediocre. Never won an NCAA tourney game and record was just above .500 in conference play. Brownell had a good record at wright state and UNC-Wilmington but he had never won an NCAA tourney game. Cliff Ellis had a good record but he had never won an NCAA Tourney game before Clemson. And you guessed it, Rick Barnes had never won an NCAA tourney game prior to Clemson. Even if Brownell is let go, the best we could hope for would be some upstart mid major coach who would jump ship the first time a bigger job came calling. I don't have all the answers but history is a pretty good indicator of what is to be expected

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 2:13 PM

This is just wrong. They weren't mediocre at all Purnell had Dayton as a 4 seed in the NCAA tournament. Barnes had Providence in the NCAA tournament three times. Brownell had Wright st in the tourney one year and had 4 strait 20 win seasons. They were all pretty good candidates at the time, maybe not the hot one or two guys.

If you want to make the agreement that the guys we hired weren't good Tournament guys, but more program builders, sure.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 3:09 PM [ in reply to Re: devils advocate- Brownell ]

Oliver Purnell started at all four program he built up that were dumpster fires. Dayton was as well. He had a strong reputation for building programs. That is one of the reasons why he left Clemson. Unfortunatly he found one program in DePaul he could not build. It finally ended his career.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/oliver-purnell-1.html

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 3:34 PM [ in reply to Re: devils advocate- Brownell ]

I think we have a short memory. Prior sweeny...Clemson was a good job not a great job. Much more success than basketball but the program was stuck in a rut for years earning the moniker Clemsoning. Yes a good job but not one of the best in the country at the time. No one could have predicted the success of the past 13 years. Saying Clemson basketball is not fixable is just not acceptable. I graduated in 1990 and all 4 of the years of B-Ball were fantastic. The atmosphere was electric. Yes we did not win a national championship, but hope was there.

W L
87 26 9 Lost Regional Semifinal*
88 19 11 Lost Second Round
89 14 15
90 25 6 Lost First Round

I attended the ACC championship this weekend (my daughter goes to VTECH) It was unbelievable. VaTech was not and is not a basketball mecca, but there is hope in the program, driven primarily by the coach. He may be gone in a year or two, but for the kids at VT now it is something special. It is easy to say we never have and we never will. The Sweeny experience should make all us believers.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 11:35 PM

Go back through Clemson basketball history. You will see that Clemson has only been two games over .500 in Atlantic Coast conference play a few times. As a matter of fact Brownell has been two games over .500 5 times in ACC play. Rick Barnes once. Cliff Ellis twice. Purnell three. Shyatt 0. Bill foster twice. Tates Locke once. Press Marovich 0. Bobby Roberts 3. Banks Mcfadden 0. That's 17 times since 1953. I Love clemson and I pull for every team wearing orange. But tell me again why its a great job.
Brownell is the only coach to win in chapel Hill and he's taken them to a sweet sixteen. As good as every coach in Clemson history except Bill foster who had one magical year and made the elite eight. He runs a clean program and in college basketball that's a rarity. There is very little tradition and the job is a stepping stone. Look at Barnes. He parlayed that success into the Texas gig and had the best years of his career. Even Cliff Ellis had more success at Auburn. Some people just want to change for the sake of changing because its always the coaches fault

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Yeah my first ACC game as a student was the NC State game


Mar 16, 2022, 10:23 AM [ in reply to Re: devils advocate- Brownell ]

in '87. We were undefeated coming in. Stood in line in the winter cold for hours (God bless co-eds). Sat in the rafters. Fans were overflowing into the aisles. It was a sweatbox inside. Electric atmosphere and pretty sure it went to overtime ending with a sweet Tiger W. I was hoarse 'til Tuesday.

Needless to say my outlook on Clemson basketball was pretty much spoiled that day. It's been a mostly sad decline since with a few highlights sprinkled in. To know what we were capable of as a program and student body and fan base, to the apathy and defeatist outlook so many have today, it's barely recognizable. Still, though, it's Clemson basketball, and that's something I can never quit on. It would be great to be able to care less these days, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

C-L-E-M-S-O--N!

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 1:21 PM

You Nailed it ! I have followed CU Basketball for over 50 years. With a few exceptions over that time basketball ( no matter the coach) has been a disappointment. It is NOT a coaching issue. It just IS what it IS !!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 3:32 PM

Blacksburg is a heck of a lot more rural than Clemson/Greenville/Anderson.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Re: devils advocate- Brownell


Mar 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

Maybe, but Blacksburg/Roanoke isn't more rural, and it's only 40 miles btwn them. The Clemson/Greenville comparison is pretty good.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-20yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Lucky Johnson


Replies: 27
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic