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110%er [7128]
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Cross dressing shows agenda: Comedy vs Social Statement
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May 31, 2023, 12:36 PM
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With regard to TV / video / live performance shows in which cross dressed characters are featured are all the same as far as acceptability for children audiences - - - here is a question:
Does anyone really believe that you are fooling someone else by equating comedic cross dressing centric shows with adult centric ‘shock and awe’ cross dresser performances?
Feigning obtuseness as a tactic to convince someone of a false equivalency is really pathetic.
Xxxxxxxx
Cross Dresser (CD) characters in a child-appropriate comedy entails the use of non-sexualized costumes that are designed to make parodies of the CD characters.
CD characters in a drag show or adult appropriate ‘social statement’ production are intended to sexualize the CD characters and thus shock or excite the audience.
Examples:
(1). A tranny Bugs Bunny outfitted in skimpy women’s attire revealing a brassier holding two plump breasts and tight scanty panties covering up a pretty woman’s booty is not intended for children’s comedy purposes. This is only appropriate for shock entertainment for adult audiences.
(2). A CD Bugs Bunny who is wearing a wig and a fat schoolmarm’s dress is a character intended to parody Bugs ‘hiding’ in a funny costume in order to fool the gullible Elmer Fudd. This type of CD production is perfect for kids.
(*). Attempts to equate (1) and (2) by omitting context just doesn’t fool anyone.
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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But a pride T-shirt triggers you
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May 31, 2023, 12:36 PM
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All-In [38187]
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Re: But a pride T-shirt triggers you
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May 31, 2023, 12:40 PM
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All-In [34108]
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Re: Cross dressing shows agenda: Comedy vs Social Statement
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May 31, 2023, 12:39 PM
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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Re: Cross dressing shows agenda: Comedy vs Social Statement
May 31, 2023, 1:11 PM
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Ooooooops.
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CU Guru [1313]
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All-In [34582]
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Associate AD [828]
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Danny, can you tell us...
May 31, 2023, 12:55 PM
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Which of the Drag Story Hour drag queens shock you and which excite you?
(Cause what I see are gals that are about as over-the-top as, well, Bugs Bunny.)
https://www.dragstoryhour.org/ Home | Drag Story Hour The original 501c(3) non-profit that uses drag to share love and acceptance through inclusive storytelling!
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Danny, can you tell us...
May 31, 2023, 12:56 PM
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(Don't get me wrong - if you are turned on, whatever floats your boat is not my issue.)
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Orange Blooded [4776]
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Re: Cross dressing shows agenda: Comedy vs Social Statement
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May 31, 2023, 1:26 PM
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I've been to drag shows, just like presumably others on here, and had a blast but they were absolutely not child appropriate. Had to be 21 to get in for a reason. Now suddenly the left wants drag queens in schools? For what purpose exactly? I mean I'm sure you can be a drag queen and a lovely person so why not go read, or whatever, in your normal attire? The fact the schools want them there in drag is a bizarre thing to anyone who isnt an ideologically driven leftist. I mean we may as well have strippers in all their regalia in schools as well. As long as they stay off the pole whose to say its anything anyone should have an opinion about. The people who constantly bend over backwards to defend absolute nonsense just because their team told them to are pathetic.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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This whole debate is so dum.
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May 31, 2023, 1:59 PM
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The purpose of Bugs Bunny dressing like a woman in a cartoon is pure comedy. Everybody understands that. There is no other agenda. We are laughing at ourselves, and at human nature.
Having drag queens read books to little kids (or other similar programs or attempts to expose young children to cross-dressing and the LGBTQ+ experience) is nothing but a blatant attempt to advance a larger sociopolitical agenda - good or bad.
Attempts here to compare the two in some way is comedy as well.
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All-In [42151]
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It's pointed out because it destroys the dumbest argument...
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May 31, 2023, 2:08 PM
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That y'all employ on this issue: That it's somehow indoctrinating kids.
We all grew up watching #### like this and it didn't indoctrinate us into anything.
If you want to argue transgender people are mentally ill, fine, let's take a look. But you can't employ both arguments.
The argument that there are groomers indoctrinating kids into this is just as stupid as claiming guns make people commit violence.
You never had a problem with any of this until the GOP and Fox told you to; it's part of the usual pattern to find some group to demonize and distract you from bigger issues.
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Lot o points [155902]
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From a standpoint of intellectual honesty, it is comparing
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May 31, 2023, 2:30 PM
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apples and oranges and calling them both citrus.
The stuff from our youth, Bugs Bunny, whatever (full admission, I've read no other threads or articles about this in here or elsewhere, so forgive any rehash) was indeed used as comedy, but more significantly was considered comedy because it was presented as something clearly abnormal and out of the ordinary. The comedy WAS the absurdity of it all.
It's a complete 180 to where we are presented with the absurdity of an actual drag queen and told that there is nothing there but complete and total normalcy.
The contrast between the two makes them poorly analogous.
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All-In [42151]
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The argument I've seen here...
May 31, 2023, 3:08 PM
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Is that kids are impressionable, thus susceptible to being pushed into such behavior. Sure, I get it's for comedy. But if a young child idolizes Bugs Bunny, or another kid gets excited watching Tootsie or Some Like it Hot or whatever, are we really going to argue that THIS is what pushed the kid into cross dressing? Or maybe it was just always there?
I think the whole point is this obsession over these people is just as comedic and silly as a WB cartoon.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I don't think anybody is arguing that kids can be pushed
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May 31, 2023, 3:54 PM
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or convinced to become drag queens. I think you have misunderstood the argument altogether if that's what you think.
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All-In [42151]
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Are you kidding?
Jun 1, 2023, 8:41 AM
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That's absolutely what several people have argued here. You're going to honestly sit here and tell me you haven't read posts from people claiming "the Left" and schools aren't trying to "groom" kids into being transgender? Capt. Crash, xtiger, RememberTheDanny, NC_Tiger, just to name a few, have all claimed this. RTD had a post calling for educators to be imprisoned because he believes this is their goal.
####### actually read some posts here.
And if that isn't the argument, what is it?
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Well, I disagree with them too, then.
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Jun 1, 2023, 12:17 PM
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My personal belief is that most of these drag queens just want to expose little kids to the concepts of homosexuality and gender fluidity, as they have stated, in hopes that the little kids will see them as normal and non-threatening.
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110%er [5675]
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Surely you are not suggesting there is no sociopolitical
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May 31, 2023, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to It's pointed out because it destroys the dumbest argument... ] |
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agenda. They are pretty open about that.
Again, watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon has one purpose - to entertain and make people laugh.
Drag queens reading to kids has a very straightforward, stated purpose, and it ain't comedy. From the website dragstoryhour.org:
What is Drag Story Hour?
It’s just what it sounds like! Storytellers using the art of drag to read books to kids in libraries, schools, and bookstores.
DSH captures the imagination and play of the gender fluidity of childhood and gives kids glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role models.
In spaces like this, kids are able to see people who defy rigid gender restrictions and imagine a world where everyone can be their authentic selves!
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All-In [42151]
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Okay, so here's the mission statement:
May 31, 2023, 3:09 PM
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In spaces like this, kids are able to see people who defy rigid gender restrictions and imagine a world where everyone can be their authentic selves!
Do you think they're trying to create new drag queens, or just saying it's okay to be yourself?
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CU Medallion [58411]
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They are teaching young children about sexuality and
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May 31, 2023, 3:30 PM
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gender fluidity.
Again, for the gazillionth time, young children should be taught to be kind and respectful to all people, including people who may look, act, and talk "different", and allow them to "be their authentic selves".
However, they should and can be taught that without introducing them to or going over sexuality, sexual orientation, or gender fluidity, especially without the full knowledge and consent of parents.
And no, of course I don't believe they are trying to (or can) create new drag queens. I just think they are going too far in an attempt to gain wider acceptance.
For the record, I have close relatives and friends who are part of the LGBTQ+ community. I love them and have supported them 100% for decades in their desire to live openly and freely without fear, restriction, or harrassment. That is not what this is about, at all.
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All-In [42151]
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Re: They are teaching young children about sexuality and
May 31, 2023, 6:06 PM
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However, they should and can be taught that without introducing them to or going over sexuality, sexual orientation, or gender fluidity, especially without the full knowledge and consent of parents.
I, and I think most others, agree with this statement. Anyone claiming this is something schools are doing (and no, I'm not saying you're claiming that, so don't have another hissy fit like last week) doesn't know what they're talking about.
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Orange Blooded [3058]
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Re: It's pointed out because it destroys the dumbest argument...
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May 31, 2023, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to It's pointed out because it destroys the dumbest argument... ] |
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Most people probably had no idea this nonsense was going on until Fox reported it. What do you think is the purpose of having drag queens read to (or interact in any way) children?
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CU Medallion [58411]
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They have stated their purpose, and it's exactly what some
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May 31, 2023, 3:01 PM
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are claiming it isn't; it's to indoctrinate by giving children "glamorous, positive queer role models", and teach them about "gender fluidity".
I mean, that's the actual, openly stated purpose. It's not hidden, and it's not benign or innocent. There is an agenda.
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Legend [18023]
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Are they doing things beyond reading children books?
May 31, 2023, 5:07 PM
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the use of "indoctrinate", "not innocent", "agenda" are pretty loaded terms to use for what appears to simply be drag queens reading children books to kids. If that's all it is and simply showing them they exist is seen as "indoctrination"?
You said in a previous post that you have close relatives and friends who are part of the LGBTQ+ community, who you have supported 100% for decades in their desire to live openly and freely without fear, restriction, or harassment. So, were you indoctrinated to love them or is that because you know them and have spent time around them you care for them and understand they are like everyone else?
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Those words are not loaded at all; they mean what they mean.
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May 31, 2023, 6:37 PM
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They describe exactly what is happening here. The drag queens' stated purpose is to give them "glamorous, positive queer role models", and "teach them about gender fluidity". That is the very definition of indoctrination, and that response was to Catahoula who flat out said there was no indoctrination:
Indoctrinate:
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: to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle
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: to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : TEACH
The drag queens are specifically there to teach the children about drag queens and queers (their word, not mine). The story reading is just a vehicle to accomplish that. So Catahoula was wrong. That was the whole point of that.
The problem I have with it, and I believe most others have with it as well, is that young children don't need to be introduced to the subject of queers and gender fluidity and sexuality in general, certainly not by the school. It is something that should be addressed and discussed between parent and child as it comes up or when they see fit. It is in no way necessary to teach children about queers and gender fluidity and sexuality, in order to teach them to be kind and respectful to all people, even people who are "different".
I found out my older brother was gay when I was about 11 years old. I already loved and respected him, so even though I grew up with all of the typical biases regarding homosexuality, all of the myths and prejudices were destroyed imediately for me, as I knew him to be a great guy.
As a result, I believe (and have accepted as truth) and have believed for most of my life, that LBGTQ+ is normal for some people, and it's something that doesn't need to be treated or changed or resisted. Outside of personal love/sex relationships, it should make no difference to anybody; it sure doesn't to me. The overriding, and more important message I learned from my experience was not that gay is cool, or normal, or okay, but that all people have the right to live their lives as they see fit, as long as they are not hurting or violating the rights of others to do the same. It's the concept that must underpin any free, peaceful society.
So, I fully understand drag queens and the whole LGBTQ+'s desire for acceptance, but drag queens don't need to indoctrinate young kids face-to-face, which could be harmful by introducing such complex, mature subjects to children who are not psychologically and developmentally ready, in order to accomplish and gain that acceptance. Parents are certainly not obligated in any way to approve of or accept it. I think it has to be accomplished by changing hearts and minds one by one, over time. We're not there yet, but we've come a million miles since I was a kid, so there's hope.
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Legend [18023]
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This is from merriam-webster...
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May 31, 2023, 7:48 PM
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which is where I assume you took that definition.
"Indoctrinate means "brainwash" to many people, but its meaning isn't always so negative. When the verb first appeared in English in the 17th century, it simply meant "to teach"..."
Unless you are living in the 17th century, most people use "indoctrinate" as a synonym for "brainwash" and not "teach." But maybe you are the rare bird that uses indoctrinate neutrally in place of "teach."
Your use of "indoctrination" with "not innocent" and "agenda" seems to suggest you feel negative about informing kids that transgender, drag performers, and/or gay people exist. If the only instruction these performers are giving the kids is that they exist, how is that harmful? You've said you don't believe these drag queens are trying to make kids become like them, so what is the specific harm that you think them reading a children's book is doing to the children? If your brother read a children's book to you (as a child) or the children would you think about this issue differently (not dressed as a drag queen, but just as himself)?
I don't think you are intolerant or a bigot or anything, but I'm trying to understand where the emotional reaction so many are having on this issue is coming from.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Those words are not loaded at all; they mean what they mean.
May 31, 2023, 10:56 PM
[ in reply to Those words are not loaded at all; they mean what they mean. ] |
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I couldn't disagree more. Positive role models simply show that people are people. It is not an attempt to "recruit." Which, like it or not, is what "indoctrination" suggests. It is most certainly what people who say "groomers" aren't even shy about suggesting.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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It's comical watching you guys trying to understand and
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May 31, 2023, 11:38 PM
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then misrepresent my very straightforward, common sense position.
I never said or implied they were attempting to "recruit" or "groom". That is a complete misunderstanding and misrepresentation of my position and is more of a reflection of what is going on in your own heads than mine. I don't care how "positive" they are; it is totally irrelevant. Nobody needs to even bring up the subject of drag queens, gender fluidity, sexual preference or sexual anything to 3-year olds; that is my whole point. If and when children have questions about those things, let parents be the ones to address it the way they see fit. Just let kids be kids without introducing them to sexual subjects and concepts; they will figure it out on their own in good time. If the goal is for them to learn tolerence, respect, and kindness toward all people, including drag queens and all LGBTQ+, they can do that very easily without being exposed to drag queens in pre-school.
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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Re: It's comical watching you guys trying to understand and
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Jun 1, 2023, 12:10 AM
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What's comical is how you guys try to have it both ways. You say it's OK for Tom and Jerry to be batting their eyes at each other and smooching under the mistletoe, but then want to get outraged over a kids "pride" T-shirt. Make up your mind, either kids get exposed and indoctrinated or they don't.
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Legend [18023]
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Here's the part I'm confused and curious about the answer...
Jun 1, 2023, 1:36 AM
[ in reply to It's comical watching you guys trying to understand and ] |
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You say, "they (kids) will figure it out on their own in good time. If the goal is for them to learn tolerence, respect, and kindness toward all people, including drag queens and all LGBTQ+, they can do that very easily without being exposed to drag queens in pre-school."
What is the specific issue with drag queens reading to kids in school, or rather, what is the difference in the kids learning about them and building that "tolerance, respect, and kindness toward all people" in school vs out of school? What is the danger they are being exposed to by having drag queens read children books to them in school that has you so worried? It might even be something I can agree with you on, but first I'd like to understand what specifically the worry is, since it's not grooming or recruiting as you have made clear?
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I think that by the time kids hit puberty, they need to have
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Jun 1, 2023, 5:31 AM
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a solid understanding of not only the biology, but all of the safety, social, moral, and emotional aspects of sex. By that point, they need to have all of the facts. Even then, however, they aren't nearly mature enough to understand and process it all, and will still need a ton of guidance and restrictions for years to come.
My whole point in this is that pre-school kids are certainly too young and developmentally immature to understand, and therefore be unnecessarily exposed to most anything relating to sex. Sexuality, including sexual preferences, homosexuality and gender fluidity, is one of those things. Seeing and knowing LGBTQ people is not the issue, to be clear; learning what LGBTQ+ means is .. because they are too young, too immature developmentally, cognitively, and psycologically. Some things are just not age appropriate.
On top of all of that, many people still believe that homosexuality and cross-dressing are sins. Those people have every right to prevent their children from being taught otherwise, and protect them from people and environments which try to do so.
If you can't understand that, I simply can't help you. If you disagree, that's fine, but I can't explain it or break it down any more thoroughly than that, and we'll just have to disagree.
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Legend [18023]
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No, I think you've made your point clear, however...
Jun 1, 2023, 5:23 PM
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We know children around the age of 2 or 3 have an understanding of gender and biological sex. So, I'm not sure they are developmentally immature to understand gender fluidity at that age. But I understand the belief that the subject matter is too confusing for them in any real depth, but that's why I wanted to know if the drag queens are doing anything other than reading to the kids.
But let's go with the notion the subject matter is too complex, that's a reasonable assertion. But, why is there so much negative emotion mixed up with that point? Would there be equally negative emotions tied to trying to teach the children calculus or particle physics at such a young age? Obviously, those are too complex of subject matter for them but I doubt there'd be such a negative reaction. So, again that's where I'm coming from on this. What is the danger that comes from teaching (by way of reading a book from what I've been able to gather) the kids this subject matter that goes beyond its complexity? (or, how does that complexity come with such negative beliefs of being "dangerous" or "not innocent"?)
I'm not coming at this from a cynical place, I truly am trying to understand the fear you and others who don't believe this is "grooming" or "recruiting" have regarding the issue. I might even agree with you on some level, but I just don't see it yet.
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Orange Blooded [4776]
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Re: No, I think you've made your point clear, however...
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Jun 1, 2023, 5:27 PM
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I suspect that it's at least in part due to the fact that schools that have been embracing this stuff over the last few years have suddenly seen exponential growth in the number of gender confused kids. Some may consider this a grand achievement but most do not.
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Legend [18023]
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I'd assume those that view it that way...
Jun 1, 2023, 5:59 PM
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and that would "blame" drag queens for reading children's books to kids as the reason for that would probably also view it as "grooming" or "recruiting" and Smiling doesn't, so I doubt he would agree.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: It's pointed out because it destroys the dumbest argument...
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May 31, 2023, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to It's pointed out because it destroys the dumbest argument... ] |
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It somehow indoctrinated kids??
Are there more or less lbgtqxyz’s today or 30 years ago?
You wouldn’t be all triggered about getting the trannies away from kids if it wasn’t making some impact.
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All-In [42151]
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The adults are talking here.***
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May 31, 2023, 3:09 PM
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Why did you lock me in this room with a tranny?***
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May 31, 2023, 3:34 PM
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110%er [5675]
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All-In [34486]
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Bruh, your rhetoric is straight out of a front porch poker
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May 31, 2023, 8:55 PM
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game in front of a general store in 1960s Mississippi. I’d probably chill out on the wrong side of history talk.
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Associate AD [828]
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If cartoons aren't a threat to children...
May 31, 2023, 10:57 PM
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than why does anyone think video games are?
(Asking the crowd blaming video games for gun violence.)
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