Replies: 20
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All-Pro [663]
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Clemson and UVA Offenses…
Nov 8, 2022, 9:00 AM
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Are both at or near the bottom nationally and in the ACC. USF was terrible as well. It’s 100% scheme and identity. The time is now to revamp the offense and go with something fun and exciting. That’s what brought the likes of Nuk, Sammy, Tee, etc. to Clemson. With UGA, UT, UNC, FSU all trending up recruiting is going to be tougher than it was 5 years ago. The offense Dabo, Tony, Jeff and Street are running has been figured out and simply doesn’t work. We all know what’s coming. Time for a revamp!
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Orange Blooded [3276]
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Re: Clemson and UVA Offenses…
Nov 8, 2022, 9:26 AM
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Remind me again who the offensive coordinator WASN'T when we won the 2 titles? That's right, it WASN'T Chad Morris. What brought that receiving talent to Clemson wasn't the offensive coordinator. It was Jeff Scott as recruiting coordinator. UVA's offense sucks this year because the receivers have hands of stone. Sound familiar to some of our woes last year with Elliott as coordinator? Very good to great receivers can make a mediocre quarterback look very good (see DJU versus Notre Dame in 2020). Mediocre receivers can make a mediocre quarterback look horrid (see DJU pretty much since the start of 2021).
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: Clemson and UVA Offenses…
Nov 8, 2022, 9:37 AM
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Enough with that already. 2016 and 2018 were years ago and Clemson had ungodly talent to mask poor schematics on offense. 2018 will be 5 years ago next season. Dabo is a CEO and the best program builder bar NONE. He can’t be successful without outstanding coaching surrounding him. Coaching that is good with play designs and player development. Doesn’t look like we have that anymore. So stop with the crap.
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110%er [8520]
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Re: Clemson and UVA Offenses…
Nov 8, 2022, 9:28 AM
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I don't care where UVA is because they have nothing to do with us but we have lost only 1 game and to win, you have to score more points than your opponent. You get no bonus for yards gained.
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110%er [6858]
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Your pulse, as low as it is, is vastly overstated
Nov 8, 2022, 9:31 AM
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Your big picture assessment level is that of a child.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: Clemson and UVA Offenses…
Nov 8, 2022, 9:39 AM
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I agree 100% with you. Good assessment. It’s embarrassing what has happened to UVA’s QB and offensive production. Elliot….
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Scout Team [167]
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Re: Clemson and UVA Offenses…
Nov 8, 2022, 10:17 AM
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We used to be HUNH, zone read. We scored points fast and ran teams into the ground (LSU 2012, Bama 2016).
We seem now to be totally reactive on offense, with tempo only after picking up a first down. What we do depends on what the defense does.
This isn't a bad system, but its very cerebral, and fits the personality of TE (Industrial Engineering major, analytical mind) well. We've tried to do all that within the confines of an RPO, meaning the QB has a decision to make on every play. That worked fine with Trevor. DJ simply cannot make those decisions consistently. So instead of changing the system, the system is simplified, to seemingly make the decision making process easier. But our offense now appears predictable. And the wrong decisions are still being made.
DJ is an incredible athlete, with a great arm, and can make great throws. He is a good runner, teammate, and leader. He would be far better turned loose to scramble and find the open guy, which is what I bet happened when he played in 2020, with the results apparent. If DJ
In 2020, we scored 14 total points at home against a GT team that finished 3-9. No one scored fewer points against them than us. Kennesaw State scored 17. We were told that we couldn't have expected to be successful since GA Tech threw a completely different scheme at us. Folks, that should have thrown us off for a quarter AT MOST. But we dang near lost that game. Clemson's talent should not in any way have been held back by Ga Tech's defense that year. Yet it was. How?
We don't have a bad scheme. We have a scheme that requires a certain type of player to make it work. Without that player, it DOESN'T work. The complexity of the scheme is what makes it effective. To simplify the scheme removes its teeth. Even when run well its not explosive or scary. It performs efficiently based on effort, talent, and flawless execution. What if the execution falls off? What if the talent doesn't show up? What if the effort is lacking?
You don't convert on any of your 6 plays, and you grind to a halt.
Just my opinion.
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Orange Blooded [3571]
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I think this is a twofold answer…
Nov 8, 2022, 10:31 AM
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Jeff Scott is a helluva recruiter. He brought in exceptional talent. Early on Chad’s O was new and exciting. Players wanted to line up in it and go. It brought DW4 to us. As I recall Morris recruited DW4 to that offense. There was worry that DW4 was going to recommit when Chad left. What Chad did was create mismatches with our limited talent at that time. Jeff brought the toys to Chad.
Exit Chad. Cupboard is full of talent at the skill positions. Now Jeff and Elliot don’t have to run crazy scheme or be fast. We literally had generational type players all over the place that just out muscled and out performed competition.
The offense doesn’t have those type playmakers anymore and now we don’t have the “mind” to recreate an explosive offense that creates mismatches. It’s almost like we have too much pride to admit it.
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Legend [19576]
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^^^this***
Nov 8, 2022, 10:33 AM
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: I think this is a twofold answer…
Nov 8, 2022, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to I think this is a twofold answer… ] |
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You are brilliant son. That is exactly what has happened. I’m sure some of these newbies will call you a coot because they don’t remember when we won games by out scoring other teams with a wide open attack offense .
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Orange Blooded [3571]
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It’s been pretty simple to watch the evolution of offense
Nov 8, 2022, 2:13 PM
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Now we just need to treat 2023 like 2013 all over. Reboot this thing. Apple puts new software out about every 2-3 years. Runs great. Great product.
I trust Dabo.
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Freshman [-79]
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That logic is flawed.
Nov 8, 2022, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to I think this is a twofold answer… ] |
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We didn't have "generational" talent.. we had elite talent. Overall, 2016 wasn't that on paper talent wasn't anymore elite than it is today, and that includes the QB. Therein lies the issue.
Deshaun Watson was obviously elite. Without him do we win a national championship? No chance.
Trevor Lawrence, elite. Do we win a national championship with Kelly Bryant or Chase Brice? No chance.
We didn't win those championships because we were more talented than everyone else. We had less elite talent overall than the teams we beat. Why? QBs!
Hopefully you're getting THE issue now. It's not scheme or talent, it's the performance at the most important position on the field.
Without elite performance at the most important position on the field, you're not winning national championships in today's game.
Our offensive scheme is NOT the issue. Playcalling is NOT the issue. The playbook is gigantic and it has elements built-in for the explosive offense you speak of. So what's the issue? We don't currently have a QB capable of the increased complexities involved in a dynamic offense. We've tried.
That is the sole reason you're seeing a watered down offense. It's not because we don't have any other plays. It's that we're running those plays because it gives the struggling QB a chance to manage and win the game.
You can't draw up magic plays where a dysfunctional QB suddenly turns into Tom Brady. We have explosive plays - we just not able to get consistent performance from the key position FOR EVERY OFFENSE. EVERY explosive offense depends on a QB capable or running.
Some of you folks are confusing scheme with execution. You can't just turn on the explosive offense switch when we can't execute it from the main guy.
We don't need new coaches or new players. We need a QB who can execute a dynamic offense. Just for a second imagine of we had Trevor or Deshaun running this offense. Would we be more accurate? Would we see the field better and work through progressions? Would be putting the ball in a place where receivers can up and get it? Yes, to all those questions. Would we freeze in the pocket, be indecisive and scared to throw the ball. Obviously not. Those dudes would even further strengthen the run game as well.
It's not the offense or the playcalling. It's the most important position on the field. Fix that, and national championships are more realistic.
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Freshman [-79]
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We're not running Tony's offense, and
Nov 8, 2022, 10:44 AM
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no, the issue is NOT the offensive scheme. The issue is the level of play from the most important position on the field. As QB goes, so goes any and every scheme.
Starting last year, it became quite obvious that our QB wasn't going to be a Trevor or Deshaun. The play at QB dropped to barely functional, and while this year started out better it appears the lack of confidence and decisiveness has crept back in.
The playcalling is limited (in any offense) to what the QB is capable of doing. Tony was handcuffed by those limitations last year, and the cuffs are back on Brandon now.
There are no magic plays or schemes you can run when your QB is limited. You have to stick with what he can do.
Scheme isn't the issue.
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CU Guru [1558]
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Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and
Nov 8, 2022, 11:15 AM
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DJ may should switch to baseball. I thought he was a good pitcher. He won’t make the NFL as a QB.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and
Nov 8, 2022, 11:20 AM
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I've had this same thought. He had a fastball in HS that was consistently in the mid-90s. You look at the stud ex-FSU pitching coach we just hired and give him a chance to develop DJ and he might actually have a shot at making it to the next level as a relief pitcher.
If I were advising him, I would definitely be in his ear about this.
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Scout Team [167]
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Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and
Nov 8, 2022, 11:17 AM
[ in reply to We're not running Tony's offense, and ] |
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Correct. This QB is not equipped for this scheme.
Instead of changing to a different scheme, we've made this scheme simplified (harmless) and still asked him to run it.
So now you have a limited scheme being run by a player who still can't really run it. Worst of both worlds.
That's how you end up with 4 and 5 star players all over the field and an impotent offense.
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Commissioner [932]
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Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and
Nov 8, 2022, 11:41 AM
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The thing to me about DJ was I glanced at his hs record while he was at the helm, you wouldn’t think a team with a 5 star QB with his size would walk through competition.
But they lost a number of games. Cade on the other hand did not, which is why it feels like a different vibe when he comes in, even as a true freshman.
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Commissioner [932]
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Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and
Nov 8, 2022, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and ] |
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The thing to me about DJ was I glanced at his hs record while he was at the helm, you wouldn’t think a team with a 5 star QB with his size would walk through competition.
But they lost a number of games. Cade on the other hand did not, which is why it feels like a different vibe when he comes in, even as a true freshman.
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Commissioner [932]
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Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and
Nov 8, 2022, 11:43 AM
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would think***
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Freshman [-79]
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Again, there are no magic schemes
Nov 8, 2022, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: We're not running Tony's offense, and ] |
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or playcalls to help DJ, other than the reduced playcalling we've had to adapt to. As you said, the QB struggled with the simplified scheme, i.e., one adapted for him, so you're basically saying there isn't a scheme when the QB is dysfunctional. Not sure what you're getting at it really - seems you're suggesting there's a more complex scheme that DJ could run, but we're just not using it??
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: Clemson and UVA Offenses…
Nov 8, 2022, 1:06 PM
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Tony should have kept the offense and coaches he had. He would at least be going to a bowl. He has a better QB than us.
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