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Recruit [89]
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Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 10:49 AM
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14 games in the ACC and finishes 3rd?
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All-In [30777]
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Yes.***
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Mar 5, 2023, 10:52 AM
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CU Medallion [56587]
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And should have years ago. But truth be told, he will parlay
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Mar 5, 2023, 12:23 PM
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this gift of a season against an insanely weak ACC to trap us into extending his grift for years.
We’ve seen this movie before.
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Orange Blooded [4030]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:03 AM
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Depends on if you are a prisoner of the moment.
Are you simply looking at a single season and Judging him on that? Is that the type of coach who can move Clemson forward?
If this was Brads first year - the answer is clear.
But
If you look at the entirety of Brads work. The entire 13 years. The fact that the program has not shifted forward, Clemson does not expect to go to the dance 50%+ of the time. We don’t expect to be a contender year in and out for the top 4 seeds in the ACC tourney. We don’t expect to be ranked in the top 10. We don’t recruit well, we don’t develop inside game (this year is blessing it’s PJ), we still play mid major ball in shooting 3s and hoping.
If you believe Brad has suddenly found the ability to recruit, develop, and do those things, then ask yourself why it took 13 years.
Has been a good year and a lousy schedule. So bad that even with our record, the current best guess is that we don’t get a bid.
As for me, I look at the big picture. I have 13 years to review and make a decision from.
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Legend [18780]
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Depends
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:09 AM
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I was off the CBB wagon long before this season. But the guy is like Teflon.
Say what you want about the man, but he is always just good enough to hang around.
But no way in the heck can you fire him now unless he gets blown out in the first game of the ACC tournament and doesn’t make the big dance which I guess can still happen.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:09 AM
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I'm personally still pissed off that brownell didn't win more in his second year with the elite players that Purnell left him. I mean, how in the world did he not have a successful year when we didn't have a sophomore class, Brian narcisse was in our starting lineup, and our backup big man was catelin baciu!
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Orange Blooded [4030]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:13 AM
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Then you must have been super excited when he took OPs players in year one and made the dance.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Too bad he didn't follow Larry Shyatt
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Mar 5, 2023, 12:10 PM
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Heck he could have been worse and have a 0% winning percentage in NCAA Tournament like OP, the BB Predecessor.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins ] |
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"Elite" Players?
### are you talking about?
Good Lawd, people are blind within this fanbase
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110%er [5465]
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Legend [16327]
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yep ..when you look at how down the conference
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:12 AM
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is. then factor in that one of the big reasons we are on the bubble is because we lost some real head scratchers. the vintage brownell coaching of non consistency
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All-American [582]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:15 AM
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I agree with owensb01 with a yes. I not only look at wins but who were the wins against. In 13 years he has only a .500 win percentage against the ACC. He has only made the NCAA Tournement 3 times and one was in his first year and those were Purnell’s players. He failed to make it out of the first round 2 out of the 3 times. I also look at the loses and were they against. Another main issue is player development. In his 13 years how many did he develop to make it into the NBA. I believe Clemson is one of a few schools that does not have a player in the NBA.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
Mar 5, 2023, 12:16 PM
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Man some of y'all are delusional.
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All-American [582]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 3:29 PM
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Not delusional, just the facts.
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All-In [43977]
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Brad will be back next year and will get a contract extension.
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:17 AM
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Possibly another raise as well, depending on how our postseason goes.
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Legend [19589]
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If he gets a contract extension that will show
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:23 AM
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that Neff is incompetent.
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Legend [19567]
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It's not about an extension, it's about the buyout
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Mar 5, 2023, 3:54 PM
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I have little doubt now that Brad will return next year, with the extra year on his contract. But, if we do not make the dance, the buyout cannot be jacked up where we can't get out of the contract. If Chase Hunter returns, along with PJ and likely Hemenway, I think we have a chance to be pretty good next year. But, if we aren't, we have to be able to affordably cut bait. We make the dance this year, that could change some. We can still make the dance. But to miss this year, and again, next? That would be 3 of 14 years, the worse percentage of making the tourney of any coach not named Shyatt since Cliff Ellis. Cliff, Barnes and OP all made it at a better rate than Brad has, not counting this season.
I think Brad has earned next year at the least, but not making the tourney in what has been an excellent year is not a good thing. Not making it next year as well, we have to assess where we want to be as a program, and the dance IS the standard for being a successful program.
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All-In [31134]
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Re: Brad will be back next year and will get a contract extension.
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:23 AM
[ in reply to Brad will be back next year and will get a contract extension. ] |
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Possibly another raise as well, depending on how our postseason goes.
You are correct but that would be the dumbest move in his young AD career.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Like the hiring of Garrett Riley, if you have the guy you
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:20 AM
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want, you pull the trigger to get better ASAP instead of wallowing in the muck and the mire of the last 13 years.
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All-In [31134]
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Re: Like the hiring of Garrett Riley, if you have the guy you
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:24 AM
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I think some of our fans like to always be either not in or on the bubble.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:25 AM
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I don't think we should or will.
Even with the weak ACC, I think this team outperformed its talent level.
and while we probably won't make the NCAA, the team could certainly make the sweet 16 if they shoot well for 2 games.
I'm ok with continuing his current contract and adding a year if it makes sense. A raise is fine too as long as it doesn't increase the buyout if we fire him later.
I really want to see what the offseason looks like.
Are all the players that can come back returning or are we going to lost half the team to transfer?
I'd also be ok with the AD telling Brownell his job is still at risk next year and he's welcome to look at other opportunities.
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1st Rounder [642]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:31 PM
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Well, after 13 years and only 3 NCAA tournament appearances (just 2 with his own players), you are clearly happy with basketball mediocrity. And losing to 4 of the worst teams in the country is ok with you.
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110%er [5465]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
Mar 5, 2023, 3:38 PM
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TU.
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Hall of Famer [24029]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
Mar 5, 2023, 11:30 AM
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A decision such as this makes me glad I am not the AD.
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Recruit [94]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:33 AM
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14 games in the ACC and finishes 3rd?
Duke and UNC are threatening to make the NIT this year. The ACC is way down, so yes! Brownell has got to go!!
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Associate AD [806]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:44 AM
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The answer is yes. Technically they could fire him if he won the NC. The team finished 3rd in conference and was 15-1 at Littlejohn. They won 5 Acc road games. If they make the tournament then we will have made it 2 out of the last three years and three of the last six after not making it 6 years in a row. The Hunter boys,Hall,Schieffelin,Godfrey,Beadle, Middlebrooks and Wiggins among others are all underclassmen.Joe Lunardi is not on the selection committee.The Net is only part of the equation.Those are facts.In my opinion he won't get fired. It seems like he has adjusted to the porthole and we are moving in the right direction.Hey everyone do you remember when we ran Purnell out of town cause his style of play couldn't win a tournament game? Lol or when Barnes left us at the alter?
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Freshman [-99]
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OP was not fired. He left and FYI has
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Mar 5, 2023, 12:22 PM
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NEVER won a game in the NCAA tourney and has only been 6 times his entire career, vastly overrated coach.
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110%er [6153]
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We fired Ken Hatfield after an 8-win season and bowl invite.
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Mar 5, 2023, 12:02 PM
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We fired Jack Leggett after 22 winning seasons and regionals his last five years.
So, yes. We’ve proven we can and will fire a coach with a successful record when we feel he’s not making progress.
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Hall of Famer [24507]
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Re: We fired Ken Hatfield after an 8-win season and bowl invite.
Mar 5, 2023, 1:57 PM
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We fired Jack Leggett after 22 winning seasons and regionals his last five years.
So, yes. We’ve proven we can and will fire a coach with a successful record when we feel he’s not making progress.
We fired Jack leg because the baseball program was starting to get stale....
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110%er [6153]
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Did the program get fresh after we fired Jack?
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Mar 5, 2023, 2:52 PM
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And if not, are we better off than we were?
That’s the challenge ADs face, and why they get paid the big bucks.
We fired Hatfield and then we’re mediocre for 20+ years
We fired Jim Davis and we’ve been worse than mediocre since.
We fired Jack and certainly got no better.
But, the fans and donors expect a highly paid AD to make the decisions and improve things.
We’ll see what Graham Neff does if the basketball team performs poorly out of the #3 tournament seed.
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Hall of Famer [24507]
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Re: Did the program get fresh after we fired Jack?
Mar 5, 2023, 5:53 PM
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Well Monte did win the ACC in his 1st year...
But did he seemingly regressed after ....
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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If he flames out (once again)
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Mar 5, 2023, 12:14 PM
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in post-season play? yes.
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110%er [7915]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 12:17 PM
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The real question is why would a fan want a coach fired after finishing 3rd in the conference?
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CU Medallion [56587]
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Because that’s more of a reflection of the Conference, not Brad.
Mar 5, 2023, 12:36 PM
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Freshman [-98]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins ] |
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Absolutely correct sir. This group of nabobs has been after a level of perfection that nobody can produce without excessive cheating.
Look at 99% of the once hot coaches such as S Smart, Brey, Pearl, the next few coaches at UNC/Duke. What do they have in common?
They face a tough battle to establish a program due to the state of the game.
Now, OP left under pressure due to zipper problems, RB was bought by Texas, where he failed to establish a top program. RB was pretty rude on his way out regarding the Clemson community and town.
Both were good coaches at Clemson, but the league was tougher back then.
Main point is that none of these clowns are big donors or they wouldn’t be crybabies on here.
Insignificance is a thing we all share on here.
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Freshman [-99]
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You’re an idiot!
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Mar 5, 2023, 2:29 PM
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Dumb take after dumb take.
OP was not run out of town. He left and was vastly overrated. Only 6 trips to the NCAA his entire career and was 0-6.
Barnes was a first class jerk and used Clemson, but even at Texas with all those recourses and support he only had a few successful trips to the tourney and ended up being fired.
BB’s perceived success this year is purely a reflection of how crappy the ACC is and frankly has been for nearly 5 years. After 13 years it’s time to move on.
VT, Miami, and FSU have had better success in basketball than Clemson since joining the ACC despite Clemson being a founding member of the conference and historically a better program.
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110%er [5465]
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Re: You’re an idiot!
Mar 5, 2023, 3:40 PM
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TU
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1st Rounder [642]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins ] |
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Why would you not fire a coach who can only get you in the NCAA tournament 3 times in 13 years?
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins ] |
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It’s really simple. 3rd is not the goal regardless of history. And, since we’ve only been playing a rotational schedule during Brownell’s tenure it is impossible to compare the significance of finishing 3rd to previous coaches.
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Legend [16112]
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Were you at the game last night?***
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:42 PM
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CU Medallion [67612]
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Re: you can actually fire a coach for moral turpitude
Mar 5, 2023, 12:36 PM
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but only at Univ of Maryland. 
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CU Guru [1204]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:37 PM
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You can, but why would you want to. Don't believe the spin that the ACC is down just
because Duke and UNC or not quite as good as they have been in the past. We did
win the ACC/Big 10 challenge.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:42 PM
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Unfortunate your opinion isn’t back up by facts. Of P5 teams the ACC had the 4th worst win percentage OOC while playing the lowest rates SOS. We lost more OOC games than any other conference. Only the PAC 12 had a lower percentage. The ACC is not good this year.
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Hall of Famer [24507]
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Yes...
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Mar 5, 2023, 1:51 PM
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Marty schotenheimer(sp?) Famously went 14-2 with the Chargers....
Lost the playoff game and got fired weeks later.....
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 2:45 PM
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BB will probably make the tournament and win the first game to earn himself a long extension and pay raise only to not see the tournament again until another do-or-die season in which he will repeat the same process.
Until death (or retirement) do us part…
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All-In [43977]
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If we make the NCAA Tournament this year, and I believe we will…
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Mar 5, 2023, 3:06 PM
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that will be 3 NCAA Tournament appearances out of the last 5. That’s notable, and also shows improvement recently.
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110%er [5465]
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Re: If we make the NCAA Tournament this year, and I believe we will…
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Mar 5, 2023, 3:43 PM
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Mediocre is mediocre is mediocre. If you want mediocre then write GN and tell him you are happy with a mediocre program.
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CU Guru [1056]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
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Mar 5, 2023, 5:29 PM
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We should kindly thank coach B for his work. Neff needs to see who he can get before he makes the change. There have to be younger coaches who love these GenZ kids, knows basketball and thinks Clemson best job in the world. Time for change.
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CU Guru [1890]
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Re: Can you really fire a coach that wins
Mar 5, 2023, 5:49 PM
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It's all in how you phrase the question. Do you really want to keep a coach that cannot when win more than one ACCT game each tourney?
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