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Topic: Brownell is a very good coach - no question
Replies: 43   Last Post: Mar 12, 2021, 3:11 PM by: rambis007
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Brownell is a very good coach - no question

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Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 8:16 PM
 

That said, being a good coach is not always the simple answer.
After 10+ years, we have not turned a corner.
When you shoot for middle of the pack, and satisfied with a 5 seed and losing in the first round we play in - to a 13. It is troubling for me.

Because some on the board, want and expect more - does not make them less of a fan than those that continue to push the narrative that we are fine. That someday things will change. That we should be happy with making the dance as a 7-9 seed every few years and happy about winning a playin game.

I would rather have people wanting more than acceptance of mediocrity. I don’t always enjoy the way people discuss it or naming players or blaming other sports or facilities, etc.

I think sometimes, a change is needed to shake things up and bring something new to the party. As the definition of insanity states - doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Accepting losses and making excuses for them does no good.
Accepting the fact we are the only original ACC team to have not won.
Explaining away when other non traditional basketball schools win and Clemson does not, does no good.

Brad is and will be a good coach, I am glad he was at Clemson. But, I also think it is time for a change.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[3]
Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 8:34 PM
 

Agree 100% TU.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[3]
Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 8:44 PM
 

lthom022® said:

Agree 100% TU.


Clemson will never let go of a coach who gets to an NCAAT after the current season. If they struggle next year, then you can maybe see it...

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[1]
Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 9:01 PM
 

Agreed with your other post that it won't happen. But it did once. Tommy Bowden. We were coming off a pretty good year previous. Won the FSU Bowden bowl, beat the coots, and narrowly lost to a good albarn team. We probably would have gone to a bowl in 08, but people were pi$$ed because of mediocrity... Even though by all standards compared to the 90's were doing good. Just not best is the standard. Should be zero difference in any Clemson sport.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[1]
Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 1:19 PM
 

Tommy Bowden left mid-season and in a completely different situation. His team was 3-3, and he was straddled with expectations of winning a division (something he had never done), despite starting 1-2 in conference play. Georgia Tech and Florida State still remained on the upcoming schedule, and neither of those games looked favorable for us to win (we ultimately lost both). By most accounts, he had told it was the division or termination. Tommy then chose to resign.

That...is COMPLETELY different from what this team has done.

Expectations from the media started low. We were picked to finish 10th in the league. We finished 5th. Last year's 16-15 record caused many here to expect much of the same from the team, because most here believe we are a .500 (plus-or-minus two games at best) basketball program with rare postseason apperances.

Instead, we've just seen a season completed that, regardless of NCAA Tournament results, is likely in the top eight or ten in the history of the program. We've produced a season that would earn us a postseason tournament birth for the fifth straight season (Brownell confirmed at Senior Day this year that we were called for an NIT invite last year). We're going to the NCAA Tournament for the second time in four seasons, and in both of those appearances, we've been well within the field (8-seed or better...not in bubble discussions).

Let's compare to production from 2011-12 through 2015-16, where we had ONE postseason birth (2013-14 NIT, no NCAA Tournament births) and very little success to hang our hats on in the regular season. Facilities were awful, and recruiting well meant finding diamonds in the rough.

Compared to that, if you can't see that, starting with 2016-17, as disappointing of a year that it was, was the turning point for this program (with the opening of the renovated Littlejohn Coliseum), then you don't know what you're looking at. The, "What have you done for me lately?" answer for Brad is stronger than any of the haters would like it to be, because they know if they take that answer, they can't consider termination. Instead, it makes the case for what will eventually be a reality for him...an extension.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[2]
Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 8:45 PM
 

^^^this^^^
I'm not sure I've ever heard a better explanation.
Well done!

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[1]
Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 9:36 PM
 

Yeah I’ve been impressed by the way other teams are lining up to hire him away. I hear Arkansas is interested

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question


Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 9:41 PM
 

Wilmington wants him back!

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“Let’s make the others want to be like us” Dabo Swinney!!

The best is yet to come!! I’m so grateful for Clemson Football going into the 2020’s


How do you know no one else wants him?

[2]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 11:48 AM
 

Just because you haven't heard about it?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: How do you know no one else wants him?


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 9:31 PM
 

OK speak, oh wise one! who wants to hire Brownell away?

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So should we assume that no one wants to hire Dabo either?


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 9:37 PM
 

I haven’t heard any reports about teams coming after him.

See how silly that sounds?

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Re: So should we assume that no one wants to hire Dabo either?


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 9:46 PM
 

In other words you don’t know crap

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Multiple schools have called to inquire about Brad


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 10:36 PM
 

over the last 11 years.

He hasn’t been interested and it didn’t progress to an interview or job offer, so you didn’t hear about it.

It’s common knowledge in coaching circles that he is happy at Clemson and isn’t interested in leaving.

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Re: Multiple schools have called to inquire about Brad


Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 1:24 PM
 

I'll echo this. Brad has been very devoted to Clemson...more so than many in the public would know. He does not want to leave Clemson. He has one daughter who graduated from Clemson and another in her second year. His family is very happy at Clemson.

And with our history, there's value in knowing a coach doesn't necessarily want to use us as a stepping stone for their next job.

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Re: So should we assume that no one wants to hire Dabo either?


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 9:54 PM
 

And as I’m sure you’re not aware, Dabo is among the highest paid head coaches in the country, so who’s going to come after him? Alabama has a coach, and they’re about the only school that could afford him. What else does anyone have to offer Dabo that Clemson can’t?

There are a lot of schools that can afford Brownell , but nobody wants him

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Dabo wasn’t always the highest paid coach.


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 10:38 PM
 

Yet we didn’t hear about anyone wanting to hire him away either. But you can bet other schools called to inquire during that time and he said no.

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Re: How do you know no one else wants him?


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 9:45 PM
 

The answer is : no one, just like when Bowden left Clemson I knew no one would ever hire that clown. When Brownell, God willing, leaves Clemson, no program in their right mind will hire that guy Who after 11 years playing in a major conference to have two NCAA appearances and have 5 of 11 seasons not even making the NIT! He took over a program it was a regular in the NCAA tournaments and turned it into an also-ran. Can’t coach, can’t recruit, all he can do I just wait for a shooter to get hot. I’m convinced he has pictures of somebody at Clemson who is influential. WCCP will not say a single negative word about him even Walt Deptula is zipped lips over Brad Brownell, he’s got dirt on somebody

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Wow, bury the hate dude.


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 10:33 PM
 

It’s not healthy.

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Re: How do you know no one else wants him?


Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 1:28 PM
 

1) Chill out.

2) If you're going with 11 seasons, at least give your argument the credibility of giving him THREE NCAA seasons, which he'll get this year...in his 11th season.

3) Brad confirmed at Senior Day that we were called for the NIT after last season.

4) Compare Brad's first six seasons to his last five, which just so happens to be when Littlejohn Coliseum was renovated. Notice any big changes? I do.

5) Perhaps the reason that so many platformed folks (in the conference and at the university) speak well of Brad is because...he actually knows what he's doing.

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I think we use this game to get fired up and ...

[1]
Posted: Mar 10, 2021, 9:56 PM
 

win the NCAAT. Today, the 3's went in early and team then decided "hey ! the 3's are going in early and no need to take it to the hoop and kick out to the open man, its soooo much easier" Thing is, glory is fleeting and lolly-gagging reared it's ugly head

taking it to the hoop and kicking out to the open man is ALWAYS, the Prime Directive.

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That, plus we didn't want to risk getting COVID


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 11:49 AM
 

and keeping us out of the NCAA Tournament.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


World class troll, I’m tellin’ ya ......***


Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 7:01 AM
 



2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg link

Brad Brownell: all-time losingest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Brownell is an average coach on his best day.***

[3]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 8:43 AM
 



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Brownell is an average coach on his best day.***


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 8:55 AM
 

^^^watched the game yesterday^^^

https://www-shakinthesouthland-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.shakinthesouthland.com/platform/amp/2021/3/10/22324043/clemson-basketball-tigers-lose-to-miami-no-grit?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16154688895445&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shakinthesouthland.com%2F2021%2F3%2F10%2F22324043%2Fclemson-basketball-tigers-lose-to-miami-no-grit

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I simply don't understand why...


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 11:14 AM
 

Clemson continued to throw-up 3-point shots in the second half instead of trying to penetrate, draw fouls, and get Miami in foul trouble.




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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


We shot 52% from three and 42% on twos.

[1]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 11:56 AM
 

Continuing to shoot threes was the correct thing to do.

Why do some people here continue to want to force the ball inside when the stats clearly showed that we were hot from 3 and cold from 2?!?

We scored 64 points yesterday. That is typically good enough to win (we average giving up 61.8 points per game).

Shot selection wasn't the problem. Carelessness with the ball was the problem, along with allowing three Miami players to beat us.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[2]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 10:09 AM
 

Here is the problem - we have turned the corner. Big-time. Sure, it rain't raining natties, but in the greater landscape, we have become a decent-mid-level BB team. We are better off than most ACC programs (despite pay FAR FAR less for it)

For the first time since.... forever - Clemson is not THE bottom dweller in ACC basketball. Sure, there were decent years of being mid-table but they were always surrounded by many bad years.

Say that again - we are not the BOTTOM team. We are not UNC's homecoming date. Actually, UNC doesn't want to play us :lol:

We are a good mid-level program, stable and building. Why roll the dice at this time? Who do you have in line?

Folks get up in arms whenever our team does well and then another team has a good day. Yeah, Miami played above their norm yesterday. Congratulate them and then lets look forward to the NCAA because I hope this team carries a chip on their shoulder.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[2]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 10:46 AM
 

I value your opinion, but I don’t see it the same way. I guess turning the corner means different things depending on perspective.
If you measure against CBB tenure, maybe we are better. But due to drop in ACC.....
Has Clemson improved? Or have the others dropped? Those of us old guys, see the ACC as the worst we have ever seen it.
We still don’t have an inside game or rim protectors. (Outscored 40-16 in paint yesterday). Guard play is better, but undersized and are then at disadvantage when defending.
We lose our best player - who was our inside game - and he has played out of position for his career.
IMO, to turn a corner, we need to be competitive in all aspects of the game. Inside, outside, etc. playing small ball seldom sustains unless playing in small conferences.
If nothing changes and we stay where we are, do we regret not making changes earlier? I personally think it is time. Am I going on a hunger strike or going to say I told you so if we don’t start competing next year? No to both.
Clemson fan all the way. But allowed to have an opinion.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 10:56 AM
 

IMHO really good coaches know how to instill confidence in players. Confidence in shooting, confidence in playing big in big games, confidence when faced with adversity. I have not seen that ability from CBB. Sad to say it.

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


I feel like you're just repeating tired cliches

[1]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 1:48 PM
 

rather than actually thinking about what you're saying.

We shot 52% on threes yesterday. Do you give the coaches credit for instilling our team to have the confidence to shoot so well? Or is it only the coaches' fault when we don't shoot well?

We played well in many big games this year. Look at our resume. We played a very good schedule and beat several ranked teams. We have done that many times under Brad. Last year, we beat several top 5 teams.

You said you haven't seen Brownell instill confidence in our shooters or give them confidence in big games. What is that based on? Were you unaware of what I posted here, or are you expecting something more?

As for our performance in tournaments, I can only point to his NCAA Tournament record at Clemson. His winning percentage in the Big Dance is better than Purnell's, Barnes's, and Ellis's were here.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[2]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 2:07 PM
 

All of the above.

The ACC is as strong as it has traditionally been. Now we have even more power programs. Cracking the top 1/3 is now harder. A more crowded field. Ask NC State if winning the Football title is harder now than it was 40 years ago.

Is the ACC weaker - yes. Power conf NON-NC contender teams are weaker. The sub .500 conference teams are not as good. That is the result of the mid-majors waxing. Clemson - if going by historical considerations - should be on of the P conf teams that is even WEAKER that the pre-NCAA expansion.

However, we are better overall. We are riding higher despite the tide going out.

Is the ACC stronger. Yes. Is it weaker. Yes. Is Clemson better, yes.

Right now, the "haves" are the traditional Power conference blue-bloods as well as a few trendy good mid-majors. It is tough right now for any non-trendy power conference team.


Here is the other item, if we want to truly become a force in Basketball - we need to be willing to spend $300 million into a new basketball facility. Now tell me if you had 300 million, would you invest it in basketball or football? Which would you have invested it in 15 years ago. Why 300 million? Because back in the early 2000s UVA did just that (Actually about 180 million into the facility) and then they had to wait for a sweet-sixteen coach that was fleeing a school cutting its basketball budget.

My consideration for us is this: ROI -return on investment. We are not investing in BB on the same level as UNC/Duke/UofL let alone NC State, Cuse, etc. We are normally in the bottom 1/3... but we are mid-table or better. We are getting

But athletics money is generally a zero-sum thing. You can't outspend everyone unless you are the 31-0hio-State and even then you don't wiun everything. Do we cut football, baseball, soccer, etc to better fund basketball? I am not sure about that.

We are competing. Clemson was considered to be bottom team. That is what irked tobacco road in the 90s and Barnes. "How in the heck is Clemson .500 in conference, this is impossible - or they are cheating under ellis again". Now, being 5th in conference and generally mid-table, we are not a garbage team anymore. I will take this. DO I want more, yes - but fast success is often a worse item (see adidas issues) in the BB world.

Miami was dead last in 3pt-ers this season in ACC play, they have no outside game. If you can shoot 2s become dunk city. Or lose. They had a good game and really, the difference in that game was that we had TWO more turnovers than they did.
They scored 1.2407 points per possession, we scored 1.306. We score more per possession than they did. We actually nearly matched them in rebounds 7:6 but those two turnovers in a tight game was the 3 point difference. THAT is your 3-4 point swing.

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Please stop with stats and logic.


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 2:45 PM
 

Those aren't allowed on the basketball board, especially if they support this crazy notion that we have a good coach and have had a good season.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question


Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 1:52 PM
 

Facts don't care about feelings.

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I agree, it's interesting to read post after post here

[1]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 1:43 PM
 

complaining that we are middle of the pack in the ACC under Brownell.

Fans seem to forget that we routinely finished at or near the bottom of the conference throughout our history. Many people consider our basketball history to be the worst in the ACC.

Conference record under Brownell:

2010-2011 - finished 9-7, 4th out of 12 teams
2011-2012 - finished 8-8, 7th out of 12 teams
2012-2013 - finished 5-13, 11th out of 12 teams
2013-2014 - finished 10-8, 6th out of 15 teams
2014-2015 - finished 8-10, 8th out of 15 teams
2015-2016 - finished 10-8, 8th out of 15 teams
2016-2017 - finished 6-12, 12th out of 15 teams
2017-2018 - finished 11-7, 4th out of 15 teams
2018-2019 - finished 9-9, 9th out of 15 teams
2019-2020 - finished 9-11, 9th out of 15 teams
2020-2021 - finished 10-6, 5th out of 15 teams

Since moving to a 15-team conference, our average finish is 7.62. Over the last four years, our average finish is 6.75.

Do we want to be better than that? Absolutely. No one wants us to just be middle of the pack. But as you stated, we are way ahead of many ACC programs.

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I absolutely hear where you're coming from.

[1]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 11:44 AM
 

Although I disagree that we haven't turned the corner. There is good evidence that we have turned the corner, such as:

-Improved facilities
-Improved recruiting
-ACC finish in the top third this year for just the 10th time in program history
-NCAA Tournament berth this year for just the 12th time in program history

Everyone should be able to recognize this year as a successful one. If anyone has a problem with this season, they either aren't a genuine Clemson basketball supporter or are clueless about our program's basketball history.

We ALL want more. We want to see us in the NCAA Tournament more often. I believe we should be in it every year. That is Brownell's goal too. And we want to see some deeper runs too, like we had under Brownell a few years ago when we made the Sweet 16 (for just the third time in program history).

I have seen a lot of posts here that default to the negative. They minimize the success we are having this year, including overemphasizing negatives or creating their own. I don't understand that. We need to support the program. What does continuing to reference "11 years" accomplish? THIS year shows a step in the right direction. Why not look forward to seeing if this success we are having now continues?

I believe it will. We are not a senior-laden team this year. Losing Simms will certainly take some adjusting, but if you look at our roster we have a good distribution of talent across all for years (FR, SO, JR, SR). This isn't a team that was built for a one-year run and nothing more (a la LSU football recently).

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Re: I absolutely hear where you're coming from.


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 11:57 AM
 

Here, we have common ground.
That is the flow and development as they move thru the years.
Especially this Covid year. Teams that rely strong on freshman, (Duke, unc, Kentucky) had problems due to not enough time to develop chemistry.
Where Clemson can succeed is developing chemistry and relying on experience. Aka, winning with seniors, juniors and some role playing others. Being smart.
With the many transfers and struggle to have inside game (yes, I am a broken record here), we have not been able to develop where I thought we might.
We both want the same thing. Actually, based on what you just wrote, your expectation may be higher than mine. Dance at least every other year. Win the games in the ACC tourney that we should win and scare others (aka - VT). If stars align - maybe shock the world. This could have been hat year due to ACC weakness.
I am a fan - lol, with an opinion.
Get BB to get inside game- and I would be on board for another couple of years.

link

I don't think he's unwilling to have an inside game.


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 1:54 PM
 

We have had some pretty good bigs during the last 11 years, and all have shown marked improvement while they were at Clemson. Guys such as Jerai Grant, Sidy Djitte, Landry Nnoko, and Elijah Thomas.

Brownell hoped that Trey Jemison would be another one, but he didn't quite develop like we hoped and surprised everyone when he transferred. I think we all had high hopes for him.

Big guys with a strong low post game are just hard to find these days. I think the NBA's shift to a more guard-heavy, perimeter-oriented game has had something to do with that. You just don't see a true center in today's NBA game, and the same has happened in college. Most tall teenagers today want to step out and shoot threes, not bang down low.

That's not to say that I wouldn't love to get an athletic 6'11 player who has some size on him with a jump hook with both hands and a jumper out to 10-15 feet. That would be great. But in looking at high school recruits, I simply don't see many of those players. I am sure Brad would like to have one or two of them though.

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Re: I absolutely hear where you're coming from.

[2]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 1:51 PM
 

Judge, Brad has 149 loses here in 11 years. That is the most loses. You always talk about his wins, but what about this stat?

Remember the loss to Gardner Webb in the tourney with no timeouts left technical?

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2014/11/21/clemson-gets-technical-foul-for-calling-a-timeout-it-doesnt-have-coughs-up-game-to-gardner-webb-video/

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Either you believe we are improving or you don't.


Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 1:56 PM
 

If you don't see improvement over the last few years, you either aren't looking or you don't want to acknowledge it.

Have you not enjoyed this season?

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I don’t think you’re any less of a fan than anyone else,

[1]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 12:45 PM
 

I think you’re completely unrealistic. People seriously need to stop comparing us to these other football schools, we’re not other football schools, we’re a football school playing in the only basketball conference, recruiting in the hardest area to recruit. Even using the logic that we are remotely comparable to other football schools, for as many Alabama’s that are Out there who made a good coaching hire, there’s probably twice as many teams like Texas A+M who fired Billy Kennedy after making the tournament, and are now the worst team in the SEC. And the truth of the matter is we are turning a corner, this senior class will have made 2 tournaments an NIT, and probably would’ve made the NIT last year had the season not got cancelled. They also ended the streak in Chapel Hill. We also brought in one of the best recruiting classes in Clemson Basketball history last year. I never thought I’d see the day where fans would call for a coaching change after we finished above UNC, Louisville, Syracuse, Duke and NC State and made the tournament but here we are.

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Amen.

[2]
Posted: Mar 11, 2021, 1:59 PM
 

It's ridiculous, these "fans" can't acknowledge that we finished ahead of those basketball powerhouses without adding an asterisk that "the ACC is down" or "those teams aren't what they used to be."

It's yet another example of them enjoying bashing our team rather than praising it. I don't understand that.

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question

[1]
Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 6:21 AM
 

Brad is too good to fire but not good enough to keep same Tommy Bowden dilemma

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Pig

Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question


Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 12:24 PM
 

Harrumph!!! Harrumph!!!

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Re: Brownell is a very good coach - no question


Posted: Mar 12, 2021, 3:11 PM
 

clemzn1981 said:

That said, being a good coach is not always the simple answer.
After 10+ years, we have not turned a corner.
When you shoot for middle of the pack, and satisfied with a 5 seed and losing in the first round we play in - to a 13. It is troubling for me.

Because some on the board, want and expect more - does not make them less of a fan than those that continue to push the narrative that we are fine. That someday things will change. That we should be happy with making the dance as a 7-9 seed every few years and happy about winning a playin game.

I would rather have people wanting more than acceptance of mediocrity. I don’t always enjoy the way people discuss it or naming players or blaming other sports or facilities, etc.

I think sometimes, a change is needed to shake things up and bring something new to the party. As the definition of insanity states - doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Accepting losses and making excuses for them does no good.
Accepting the fact we are the only original ACC team to have not won.
Explaining away when other non traditional basketball schools win and Clemson does not, does no good.

Brad is and will be a good coach, I am glad he was at Clemson. But, I also think it is time for a change.


Change. To use the insanity quote here is wrong since you see every year it’s different results. So you think it’s due to the coach we have and there are no other issues that Clemson basketball has for not winning the ACC tournament. So who do you suggest is the savior?

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