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110%er [7177]
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Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 7:18 PM
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ddclemson
You posted a great response on the other thread. I wonder based on your teams listed who everyone thought was the biggest "DISAPPOINTMENTS" in college football? Based off - where they have been as a program compared to where they are now!
To me my top 5 in order:
1. Nebraska - did they change their offense prematurely? To date nobody has consistently just completely stopped that Osborne Nebraska I.
2. Michigan - all the resources one could ask for. But, epic fails over and over.
3. Southern Cal! To be fair they did win one in I believe 2004 and played for one in 2005. But, with your pick of the best players on the west coast and you still can't win - "you ought to be ashamed"!
4. Pennsylvania State - for all the hype they get - what have they done to deserve it? 30 years ago stuff. Janet Jackson to the Nittany Lions and all these teams - "what have you done for me lately"!
5. Pittsburgh - winner of 9 National Titles. The Panthers have football rich western PA to recruit from. NJ as well( NJ H.S. football is actually pretty good). What ever happened to them.
Honorable mentions: Notre Dame, Georgia
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Re: Pennsylvania doesn’t produce as many top athletes anymore
Aug 19, 2021, 9:15 PM
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Do a 5yr or 10yr average and those numbers change substantially. No way NJ would be ranked that high. I think VA would jump up and MD would fall also. Plus, I think it's been proven that Texas players are often overrated. Big state with crazy HS football programs, but that means there are several recruiting scouts in the region so they over-hype their state players. SC being smaller has zero in-state scouts so our players get knocked down. But look at the number of #1 recruits or Top 5 recruits SC has produced. Also look at SC players in NFL based on population, and I would argue our average HS talent is every bit as good as other states, just lacking the population.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 7:44 PM
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Good list. I'm not much of a historian, but would add Miami and Tennessee to the list.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 8:22 PM
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Good list. I'm not much of a historian, but would add Miami and Tennessee to the list.
You could add Miami! They certainly are right in the heart of a bunch of talent! Their stadium sitution holds them back a lot I think. The school from my understanding is a good ways from the actual stadium - so it feels more like a pro game instead of college.
Tennessee - I would like to edit Pitt out my top 5 and replace them with Tennessee. You are absolutely correct. I forgot about all the resources they have there. The stadium the big alumni. They are the only p5 school in a state that has roughly 1.9 million more people than S. Carolina. ( 6.9 million ).
The Vols really went down when Philliip Fulmer left.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 20, 2021, 8:13 AM
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So was ignoring Vanderbilt as a P5 school intentional?
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Freshman [-99]
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Not really.
Aug 20, 2021, 5:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools! ] |
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Florida State has absolutely no history or success before Bobby Bowden. Clemson has far more tradition and success than Florida state if you were looking at the program as a whole.
Miami really had no history tradition or success until Howard Schnellenberger in the early 80s.
I would have on my list Notre Dame. They are one of the biggest names in college football and they have not been relevant in years. Last year they had a good record but they were only relevant because of competing against Clemson and being in the ACC and we destroyed them in the ACCCG. They have not won a national championship since 1987.
The truth is A lot of the so-called blue blood programs have done nothing or very little in decades. They are living off their past reputation more than anything else. And they had huge advantages prior to the late 80s early 90s when cable TV became prolific and you had more than a few games on TV. I remember the 70s and 80s when you could count the number of college football games on TV each week on one hand.
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110%er [6223]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 8:05 PM
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that's a good list and I'm not sure who to add to it. As far as the corn huskers, Osborne took mostly home grown boys and made them into a great run oriented offense. He said he always recruited the best 3 to 5 players in Neb every year, even if they didn't have that many. But those 3 to 5 would bring in a bunch of walk-ons that would be ready to contribute as jrs and srs. Those kids were the core of his OL, DL and LB most years.
Since he left, the game has changed too much. Also, they have to recruit the same area as OK and the Texas schools. In todays college football, not even Osborne could replicate what Osborne did.
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CU Guru [1544]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 8:23 PM
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Hot take:
FSU from 1987-2000: for all the talent they had, should've won more than only 2 Nat'l titles.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 8:40 PM
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Hot take:
FSU from 1987-2000: for all the talent they had, should've won more than only 2 Nat'l titles.
Very True!
Teams raiding Florida for talent hadn't really gotten out of hand at the point. Same for Florida though. Who was about the only SEC team(and bama in like 92) that was a yearly contender(Tenn a few times but they should have done even more than they did too).
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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If there had been a 4 team playoff then, FSU would have won
Aug 19, 2021, 10:09 PM
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five or six titles from 87 to 2000.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: If there had been a 4 team playoff then, FSU would have won
Aug 20, 2021, 2:27 AM
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Or if they could kick a field goal straight.
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Freshman [-99]
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One of the best things to ever happen to FSU
Aug 20, 2021, 6:01 AM
[ in reply to If there had been a 4 team playoff then, FSU would have won ] |
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Was Danny Ford getting fired after the 1989 season.
Clemson absolutely dominated Florida state in 88 and 89. It is ridiculous that Clemson lost the 1988 game because we dominated that game on both sides of the ball. Deion sanders single-handedly kept Florida State in that game with a huge kick return and a big punt return. Their offense only moved across the 50 yard line one time. Their only offensive touchdown came because of a big kick return by Sanders that got them Deep into Clemson territory. And he returned a punt around 50 yards for a touchdown.
Clemson totally dominated on both sides of the ball the entire game. We lost that game on special teams.
Then we absolutely annihilated them in Tallahassee the following year. One of Bobby Bowden‘s worst beatings.
Had Clemson not fired Ford I think we would have another national championship and Florida State would not have dominated the way they did when they first joined the ACC.
Message was edited by: Lowcntry_Tiger®
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CU Medallion [64589]
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Danny's teams were poised...
Aug 20, 2021, 8:04 AM
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to win at least two if not three more National Championships.
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Freshman [-99]
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I agree.
Aug 20, 2021, 6:55 PM
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Like I posted, we would have won at least one more and as you said potential two or three.
Ford had so much talent when he left that Ken Hatfield won the ACC two years later. Even he couldn’t screw up that much talent. He just couldn’t recruit to replace it.
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All-In [44045]
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As great as Danny was, I just don’t see the national championship potential
Aug 20, 2021, 7:06 PM
[ in reply to Danny's teams were poised... ] |
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many people seem to think we had coming up in the early 90s.
We were great in the mid-late 80s, but were always 10-2. At least one of those losses was a bad loss to a team we should have easily beaten.
The best we could muster those years was an ACC championship and barely top 10 finish. That’s nowhere close to being elite or contending for another national championship.
We were loaded on defense, and I agree that Hatfield inherited great defensive talent. But the offensive talent was lacking, and was nowhere close to what was needed to win a national championship. Having Danny as coach wasn’t going to magically make that offensive talent better, nor would we have contended for national championships. Claiming that we would is just sour grapes over his unfortunate dismissal.
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Team Captain [460]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 10:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools! ] |
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Bobby Bowden said in his book that on his tombstone it would say “but he had to play miami.” Without Miami fsu would definitely have a few more. If there were a 4 team playoff I’m convinced miami would have at least added 1988, 1990, and 2000 to their 5. Sad how the best teams of my childhood are a shell of themselves.
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Freshman [-99]
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Miami should have won the 1986 national championship.
Aug 20, 2021, 6:17 AM
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That was the 87 Fiesta bowl. Miami was hands-down the best team in the country that year but got out played by Penn State in the Fiesta bowl. Testaverde won the Heisman Trophy that season but he had a terrible game and threw something like 3 interceptions. Despite how bad Testaverde played they still almost won the game. It was a low scoring game and Penn State pulled it out 14-10.
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Orange Blooded [2030]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 9:03 PM
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Texas should be in that top 5
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CU Guru [1847]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 19, 2021, 9:56 PM
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It seems like it would skew the state of Florida’s numbers somewhat, with kids transferring in from other states to IMG Academy.
However, I realize they have a wealth of talent homegrown as well.
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CU Guru [1198]
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Texas A&M
Aug 19, 2021, 10:19 PM
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They have a 102K seat stadium, over 69K students(compared to less than 26K for Clemson), and a huge recruiting base in Texas, but they haven't won a NC since 1939 or a conference since 1998.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Texas A&M
Aug 20, 2021, 12:25 PM
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?????????? - Wow! Eye Popping numbers from a "football school"!
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Freshman [-99]
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Going back to Big Thursday
Aug 20, 2021, 7:30 PM
[ in reply to Texas A&M ] |
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I think some of those early games at the state fairgrounds had well over 100,000 people.
For the young’uns on here, every Clemson/Carolina game up until 1960 was played in Columbia. The last big Thursday was 1959. They were originally played at the fairgrounds then later moved to Carolina’s stadium.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theclemsoninsider.com/2019/11/21/clemson-carolina-the-end-of-big-thursday/amp/ Clemson-Carolina: The end of Big Thursday The Clemson-South Carolina game grew to be an important social and political event. From the first time the two schools met in 1896 to the 1959 meeting, they played in Columbia during the week of the State Fair. The first 57 meetings were played on the third Thursday of every October.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Going back to Big Thursday
Aug 20, 2021, 7:37 PM
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I think some of those early games at the state fairgrounds had well over 100,000 people. For the young’uns on here, every Clemson/Carolina game up until 1960 was played in Columbia. The last big Thursday was 1959. They were originally played at the fairgrounds then later moved to Carolina’s stadium. https://www.google.com/amp/s/theclemsoninsider.com/2019/11/21/clemson-carolina-the-end-of-big-thursday/amp/Clemson-Carolina: The end of Big Thursday The Clemson-South Carolina game grew to be an important social and political event. From the first time the two schools met in 1896 to the 1959 meeting, they played in Columbia during the week of the State Fair. The first 57 meetings were played on the third Thursday of every October. Clemson-Carolina: The end of Big Thursday The Clemson-South Carolina game grew to be an important social and political event. From the first time the two schools met in 1896 to the 1959 meeting, they played in Columbia during the week of the State Fair. The first 57 meetings were played on the third Thursday of every October. Clemson-Carolina: The end of Big Thursday The Clemson-South Carolina game grew to be an important social and political event. From the first time the two schools met in 1896 to the 1959 meeting, they played in Columbia during the week of the State Fair. The first 57 meetings were played on the third Thursday of every October.
To have had such a home field advantage - yet - never dominated the series! It says a lot about their football prowess! As Charles Barkley would say; "Jusss Turr-ble"!
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1st Rounder [612]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 20, 2021, 1:04 AM
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I see nobody has mentioned South Carolina, is that just because the one year that they thought they were good- turned out that everybody else was just that bad?
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110%er [6981]
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South Carolina
Aug 20, 2021, 5:54 AM
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Big stadium, big conference, big booster money, low admission standards. Haven’t won a conference title in half a century. Never even played for a natty. They have the whole Southeast to recruit from, biggest school in the state. There’s no excuse for them not being better than they are
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CU Medallion [64589]
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I'm not sure you can include a perennial doormat on the list
Aug 20, 2021, 8:01 AM
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uof6c has only experienced brief periods of marginal success. Their history is based largely and primarily on failure rather than success and they certainly DO NOT fall into the category with schools like Nebraska, Penn State, Michigan, and Southern Cal.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 20, 2021, 8:21 AM
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I think that you need to expand it to a top 10. We should be arguing where on the list to put Tennessee, ND, Georgia, Texas, and Texas A&M, and not whether to include them.
You might also throw Wisconsin in there. There would always be talk of them halfway through the year, but they were never there in the end.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 20, 2021, 12:28 PM
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I do not disagree!
I have to be honest; I hadn't previously thought about Tenn and T A&M. Both should be on the list no doubt.
Not including certain schools is about "who should be better given the resources they have"! So, if a school don't have those resources they aren't as big a fail; so much as they are just "not good"!
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All-In [40100]
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Good list USC would be up there for me and Texas.
Aug 20, 2021, 8:27 AM
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Texas more based off seems like they should have the base to be very good.
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All-In [26503]
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da U is back ... maybe ... let's wait and see how this Bama
Aug 20, 2021, 8:31 AM
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game goes.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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I believe Bama is going to curb stomp the Canes.***
Aug 20, 2021, 8:53 AM
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110%er [6981]
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Re: I believe Bama is going to curb stomp the Canes.***
Aug 20, 2021, 1:07 PM
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Without a doubt
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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Texas, then
Aug 20, 2021, 1:32 PM
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... based on some of your criteria
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All-In [30820]
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Texas.. without a doubt..no. argument
Aug 20, 2021, 2:42 PM
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They broke up the big12 to get what they wanted.. thier own network and money. Well now they have their own network and buckets of money.
Huge, passionate fan base. Talent rich state.
Every coach in the last 20 yrs has been given everything a coach could possibly ask for... and they struggle to be slightly above average.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Texas.. without a doubt..no. argument
Aug 20, 2021, 6:41 PM
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They broke up the big12 to get what they wanted.. thier own network and money. Well now they have their own network and buckets of money.
Huge, passionate fan base. Talent rich state.
Every coach in the last 20 yrs has been given everything a coach could possibly ask for... and they struggle to be slightly above average.
One of their biggest problems is: "the H.S. football players coming out of Texas are severely overrated"! It's a big state and you can produce a long list of NFL talent. I get it.
But, they often do not live up to the star rating they had come out of H.S. The football culture is great and the stadiums and everything else is good. Which is great! Good for them; but I wouldn't give them this huge advantage in terms of talented football players who can go on to college and make a difference.
Look at what Jimbo Fisher is doing in recruiting and what Charlie Strong tried to do at Texas > bring in some Florida/Georgia talent.
This little nuance isn't talked about much; because Texas H.S. Football has been crowned king due to its "pageantry"! But, to me it stops there from what I have seen "in large part". Said better, "it doesn't live up to the hype in terms of players to me or even teams"! ESPN loves featuring Texas schools; so over the years, I've had the chance to see a good many.
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Hall of Famer [22314]
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old joke, the N on their helmets stands for Nowledge... but
Aug 20, 2021, 7:06 PM
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seriously, I think Nebraska's fall is the saddest. Because I don't think they're ever coming back. EVER. Regardless of the coach. They were one of the elites for decades. A dominating OL of "big old corn-fed farm boys" as I once read, who they could recruit locally in the midwest. Then they'd pluck some shifty & speedy QBs and RBS from other parts of the USA. That offense was unstoppable, and they usually had a nasty defense, too.
But it's tough to recruit kids to Lincoln Freaking Nebraska. And now the "name recognition" is long gone. A few bad hires broke their momentum. Unlike say, an FSU or Miami... Nebraska has very little talent in their own backyard. I just don't ever see them coming back.
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All-In [44045]
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I agree, it’s sad and the chances of them being elite again are slim.
Aug 20, 2021, 7:12 PM
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They would have to have a great coach with notoriety agree to coach there, and have really really consistent administrative and fan support so he would have what he needs.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: I agree, it’s sad and the chances of them being elite again are slim.
Aug 20, 2021, 7:14 PM
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Judge Keller - where would you put Michigan?
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Hall of Famer [22314]
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110%er [7177]
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Watermelon Schools!
Aug 20, 2021, 9:37 PM
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Had to share this: I was speaking to an older gentleman this afternoon and I was getting his opinion on Texas and Michigan and Texas A&M, etc.
He told me, "they are all watermelon schools"! I said, "what do you mean by watermelon schools"? He said, "they big, but crack easy"!
LOL! ??????????????????
God bless him! LOL!
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: old joke, the N on their helmets stands for Nowledge... but
Aug 21, 2021, 7:15 AM
[ in reply to old joke, the N on their helmets stands for Nowledge... but ] |
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I knew a guy that played a couple of years at Nebraska in the early 90's. When I asked him why he went there, he said because the student ratio women to men was 2 to 1. I don't remember checking the ratio of women to men when I was applying to schools, so I am guessing that was one of Osbourne's recruiting pitches.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: old joke, the N on their helmets stands for Nowledge... but
Aug 21, 2021, 8:11 AM
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I knew a guy that played a couple of years at Nebraska in the early 90's. When I asked him why he went there, he said because the student ratio women to men was 2 to 1. I don't remember checking the ratio of women to men when I was applying to schools, so I am guessing that was one of Osbourne's recruiting pitches.
LOL! I never checked the "ratio" but I did take some "comprehensive" looks while on my campus visit. At the time, it was something that crossed my mind when considering my school of choice for my continued education. But, never a ratio perse.
Willing to bet Osborne not only told them; but likely had it staged so some kid from Georgia, Texas, Cali would feel like they struck gold in Lincoln, Nebraska! That Rascal!
***Nebraska is exhibit A in: "if your program is on top, never take it for granted and enjoy and revel in the moment"! Acting as if "it's the norm" or like "it gets old" isn't good! Enjoy our program status in other words Tigers fans/alums right now!
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CU Medallion [52342]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 20, 2021, 11:57 PM
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FSU
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 21, 2021, 8:15 AM
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FSU
If they don't come back soon; for sure. But, they were National Champions in 2013. Beating Auburn in the process.
But, my list if re-done would look like this:
1. Nebraska
2. Michigan
3. Tennessee
4. Texas
5. Penn State
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CU Medallion [52342]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 21, 2021, 2:32 PM
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My point was that when they fell it was quickly.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Biggest Fails in college football? What Schools!
Aug 21, 2021, 2:45 PM
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My point was that when they fell it was quickly.
True!
All that talent and "the PPP" on the field is proof positive: "Joes/Johnny's are needed no doubt; but you had better have sound leadership to go with it or you still won't win"!
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Replies: 47
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|
|
50
