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CU Medallion [58376]
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Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 12:11 AM
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close to another mid-pack finish, which probably has Clemson higher-ups thinking they'd better lock Brownell down with a ten-year extension before somebody else snatches him away, almost guaranteeing 10 more years of mid-packery!
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 12:22 AM
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Best is the standard.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 9:59 AM
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I'm sure he's not trying to be successful, or live up to his own expectations of his program.
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Orange Blooded [2964]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 1:25 AM
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If you’re looking for something to be critical of your cup will always be full. I enjoyed a great come from behind win by the Tigers tonight.
Go Tigers
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 1:32 AM
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If you’re being evaluated on a test that you’ve written, you will always ‘exceed expectations’. We were a consistent tourney team under Barnes and Purnell, we are not close to that currently. Why not try someone new to get us back there and maybe that guy can break through?
Message was edited by: ClemCE09®
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Orange Blooded [2964]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 1:52 AM
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Barnes and Purnell. Great coaches who left Clemson. Tell me why before you criticize Brownell who has stayed.
Go Tigers
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 1:57 AM
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They were better than Brownell…
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All-In [27289]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 6:33 AM
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That was easy
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us ] |
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They were better than Brownell…
The win percentage was not terribly different that CBB. OP could not scratch in the dance where CBB got us to the sweet 16. Neither of these coaches could win in the dean dome where CBB was able to break the 50+ game streak longest in basketball. So other than you remembering them to be better how exactly were they better?
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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110%er [8520]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 8:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us ] |
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What you are missing about "being a perennial tournament team" is how low the ACC has dropped in perception. The BIG10, Big12, Pac12 and SEC are heads and shoulders above the ACC now. There will likely be ACC with 20 wins not making the Tournament this year and used to never happen.
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All-In [38422]
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 6:57 AM
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close to another mid-pack finish, which probably has Clemson higher-ups thinking they'd better lock Brownell down with a ten-year extension before somebody else snatches him away, almost guaranteeing 10 more years of mid-packery!
It’s too bad for you and the other haters that our team just won’t lay down and quit so y’all can push CBB out the door. The nerve of our players going hard after the win this late in the season.
BTW just changing coaches and nothing else will only hurt the program
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All-American [586]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 7:26 AM
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How do you figure that just changing coaches and nothing else will just hurt the program? If a different coach has better in-game strategy and is a better recruiter and motivator how does that not improve the program?
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Right - It could make all of the difference in the world.
Mar 3, 2022, 7:43 AM
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Changing coaches is ALWAYS a gamble. But, keeping the same coach is a gamble too. It's really not that complicated - If you're happy where you are, you keep who you've got. If you're not, you have to be looking. Are we happy finishing 8th in the conference? because that's our average finish after TWELVE YEARS under Brownell. Again, this isn't complicated.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Right - It could make all of the difference in the world.
Mar 3, 2022, 8:06 AM
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Changing coaches is ALWAYS a gamble. But, keeping the same coach is a gamble too. It's really not that complicated - If you're happy where you are, you keep who you've got. If you're not, you have to be looking. Are we happy finishing 8th in the conference? because that's our average finish after TWELVE YEARS under Brownell. Again, this isn't complicated.
OR you can make other changes to help the program. Firing the coach is only one option but it seems the only one the haters on Tnet know about.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Haters? I Only hate mediocrity. To be clear, Brad Brownell
Mar 3, 2022, 9:05 AM
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is a great guy in my opinion, and not a bad coach. We can debate all day about how much responsibility Brownell bears, but it's undeniable that he has been the head coach of a program that has been mired in mediocrity for over a decade. I don't hate him at all. In fact, I like him, and I feel bad for him; but he has been the head coach for 12 years. No sane person can possibly believe this program can move forward with him at the helm. That defies all reason. It's a total break from reality.
He got a new arena and new facillities 6 years ago. What are the results since then? An average 8th place finish! SHOCKER! How can you pretend Brownell has nothing to do with these results? Again, I understand that Brownell is a great guy and I understand why people want him to succeed, I really do, but this obsession with him is odd and downright creepy.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Haters? I Only hate mediocrity. To be clear, Brad Brownell
Mar 3, 2022, 9:43 AM
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is a great guy in my opinion, and not a bad coach. We can debate all day about how much responsibility Brownell bears, but it's undeniable that he has been the head coach of a program that has been mired in mediocrity for over a decade. I don't hate him at all. In fact, I like him, and I feel bad for him; but he has been the head coach for 12 years. No sane person can possibly believe this program can move forward with him at the helm. That defies all reason. It's a total break from reality.
He got a new arena and new facillities 6 years ago. What are the results since then? An average 8th place finish! SHOCKER! How can you pretend Brownell has nothing to do with these results? Again, I understand that Brownell is a great guy and I understand why people want him to succeed, I really do, but this obsession with him is odd and downright creepy.
of only moderate quality; not very good is the definition of mediocre but we have typically been mid pack under CBB which is better than our historical average and also in line with our investment in the program. Wondering if we gold plated the basketball program the same way we have gold plated the football program would it put us where we want to be? Had we not gold plated the football program would we have won two national championships? With our basketball history and no built in advantages we need to do something else to push the program over the top. NIL would be one way and dumping money into the program would be another. Changing coaches without doing anything else would likely make the program worse instead of better as previously explained.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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We are the definition of mediocrity. Boring, predictible,
Mar 3, 2022, 10:45 AM
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middle of the pack. Mediocrity. From Dictionary.com:
of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:
That's our basketball program. Brownell hasn't done jackshit to change that in 12 years. You're saying nobody else can. You're saying anybody else would likely make it worse. I'm saying you have a very strange attachment/obsession with Brownell. I say give somebody else a chance. And once again, I'm all for doing whatever else it takes, within the rules, to improve our basketball program. If we are not willing to be more competitive, if we are satisfied with eternal mediocrity, then I say this in all seriousness: Scrap the program and put the money to good use. Start the wrestling program back up. Give money to charity. I don't care, but stop admiting defeat from the start and accepting perpetual mediocrity in basketball. Lets actually win the ACC once every decade or every 15 years at least. Let's challenge every 4 or 5 years. Let's expect to finish in the top 25 on a fairly regular basis. Let's expect to have a good basketball program at Clemson. Let's do what it takes. Let's not be afraid that if we lose one coach that has presided over a decade plus of mediocrity, we will get worse. Let's not be afraid to TRY to get better.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 8:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us ] |
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How do you figure that just changing coaches and nothing else will just hurt the program? If a different coach has better in-game strategy and is a better recruiter and motivator how does that not improve the program?
Clemson is not a destination job so the next coach will either fail and we will start cycling through coaches destroying the roster each time or if successful will leave for a better gig. Once again churning the roster in the portal era. If you want to help then set up an NIL for the basketball program so Clemson can compete for better players. But simply cycling through coaches like many ACC programs have done over the last 10 years will not lead to the success you are seeking
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 8:39 AM
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How do you figure that just changing coaches and nothing else will just hurt the program? If a different coach has better in-game strategy and is a better recruiter and motivator how does that not improve the program? Clemson is not a destination job so the next coach will either fail and we will start cycling through coaches destroying the roster each time or if successful will leave for a better gig. Once again churning the roster in the portal era. If you want to help then set up an NIL for the basketball program so Clemson can compete for better players. But simply cycling through coaches like many ACC programs have done over the last 10 years will not lead to the success you are seeking
Why don't they start by offering a larger buyout to Brad? $3 million at extended payments is short change for a power conference school. Or are they not, because they know it's going to cave in?
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I'm for whatever changes are needed, but to suggest that
Mar 3, 2022, 7:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us ] |
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meaningful change that will result in significant, meaningful improvement is possible without a coaching change is laughable. That is the main change that is needed.
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110%er [8520]
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Re: Best thing about tonight's win - it probably gets us
Mar 3, 2022, 8:41 AM
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And except for 2 or 3 years in the history of Clemson basketball, it has always been that way. Nothing new here.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Do you want to be better or not?***
Mar 3, 2022, 9:07 AM
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Orange Blooded [2964]
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Re: Do you want to be better or not?***
Mar 3, 2022, 9:33 AM
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That’s a great question but not an answer. You say you like CBB, that he is a good coach, man, but you can’t support him because…Dabo wins conference and national titles? Because Barnes and OP were better?
To me, Barnes and OP can’t be better if they don’t stay. Again, tell me why they left and then we’ll know why Clemson is not a “basketball “ school.
Great game last night and Go Tigers!
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CU Guru [1157]
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Re: Do you want to be better or not?***
Mar 3, 2022, 9:44 AM
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So by this logic the only thing he needs to do to keep his job is to want to keep his job? Its a performance based business, next man up please.
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Team Captain [486]
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Re: Do you want to be better or not?***
Mar 3, 2022, 9:41 AM
[ in reply to Do you want to be better or not?*** ] |
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That is the question. If you want to be mediocre, keep the coach. If you want to TRY to be better, you need a different coach. Sorry, but it's pretty simple.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Do you want to be better or not?***
Mar 3, 2022, 2:30 PM
[ in reply to Do you want to be better or not?*** ] |
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If you really cared about getting better you would help group fund a basketball NIL and quit whining about the coach.
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