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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who...
Dec 28, 2020, 10:07 AM
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believed that Trump conspired with Russia to fix the 2016 election have a record of not knowing the truth when it jumps up and bites you right in the butt and that your news sources lack any form of credibility due to leading you to believe that lie.
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Hall of Famer [24765]
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Of course not... We all know it was JARED !!!***
Dec 28, 2020, 10:10 AM
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All-In [34108]
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Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who...
Dec 28, 2020, 10:21 AM
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By "conspired with Russia," do you mean the meeting in Trump Tower between Don Jr. and the Russians, or when Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen met with Russians, or when George Papadopoulos talked to Russians, or when Paul Manafort shared polling data with Russians, or when Jeff Sessions and Jared Kushner met with the Russian ambassador?
Or do you mean the time Russians offered to sell information to Roger Stone, or when Stone talked to Russian hackers?
Or the time that Don Jr. talked to Wikileaks, or when Kushner and Michael Flynn met with the Russian ambassador, or when Cohen met with a Russian billionaire at Trump Tower?
And by the way, when are you going to give us your assessment of all of those FACTS about Russian collusion, which are supported by evidence as well as admissions by the people who did it? Please be sure to address all of those facts in the same way you want your election fraud claims addressed, so that people can model their behavior on yours. 
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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5 investigations found no evidence of Trump/Russian....
Dec 28, 2020, 11:08 AM
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conspiracy that included a 2.5 yr investigation by Mueller according to his report before congress. You're barking at the moon. Candidates often have contacts with foreign Govs to familiarize with those who they may be dealing with after the election.
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All-In [34108]
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Re: 5 investigations found no evidence of Trump/Russian....
Dec 28, 2020, 11:19 AM
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Candidates often have contacts with foreign Govs to familiarize with those who they may be dealing with after the election.
I just provided you with numerous examples, which by the way are also in the Mueller Report, and that's your answer? In that case, why should you expect any different sort of answer to your election fraud stories?
As in: "You're barking at the moon, CT88. All purported fraud has been dealt with at the local, state, and federal levels, and no court has determined that the election results were invalid. Elections always have some irregularities and even claims of fraud, but once the challenges are resolved, the votes are certified and the world moves on."
If it's okay to dismiss evidence as you do with Russian collusion, then it's okay to dismiss your supposed evidence of voter fraud. Can't have it both ways, my friend, lest you risk the charge of hypocrisy. Do you care about the truth?
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CU Guru [1315]
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Re: 5 investigations found no evidence of Trump/Russian....
Dec 28, 2020, 7:05 PM
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Sadly, you forgot the conclusions of the Mueller report. Try harder, you're embarrassing yourself.
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CU Guru [1315]
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Re: 5 investigations found no evidence of Trump/Russian....
Dec 28, 2020, 7:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: 5 investigations found no evidence of Trump/Russian.... ] |
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You do realize that that shyt is old news, right? Move on. Biden and Hunter are now the ones that will be investigated for corruption. We all know Joe (and Hunter) have a long history (rap sheet) of lying, plagiarising and shady deals, this time with the CCP. Gonna be messy...very messy. I smell resignation and/ or impeachment. Take your pick.
Hello Kumalan the snarky giggly hoe.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: 5 investigations found no evidence of Trump/Russian....
Dec 28, 2020, 7:17 PM
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How will they impeach Biden without the House and the Senate? The only way Biden doesn't finish his term is if he has health issues.
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All-In [48078]
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All-In [34108]
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All-In [34108]
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Is this one of those normal contacts, CT88?
Dec 28, 2020, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to 5 investigations found no evidence of Trump/Russian.... ] |
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From an email dated June 3, 2016 from Rob Goldstone to Donald Trump Jr
Emin [Agalarov, a Russian pop star represented by Goldstone] just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras [a Moscow-based developer who tried to partner with Trump in a hotel project] this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary [Clinton] and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.
What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?
I can also send this info to your father via Rhona [presumably Rhona Graff, Trump’s longtime executive assistant], but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.
Don Jr's response
Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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History record many examples of candidates using....
Dec 28, 2020, 1:16 PM
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opposition research by contact with foreign actors. I cite, Hillary-Coie Perkins-Fusion GPS and Kevin Steele and ask... What's the difference here?
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All-In [34108]
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Re: History record many examples of candidates using....
Dec 28, 2020, 1:21 PM
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OK, so you're moving from "they didn't collude" to "it doesn't matter if they colluded"? Wow, that was fast!
Bear in mind, you just confessed that it wasn't a hoax.
So okay, in light of how much effort you just spent not refuting my actual fact, which fact about voter fraud would you like people to spend an equal amount of time refuting?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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When did colluding become conspiring?
Dec 28, 2020, 1:36 PM
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You are not confused about the differences in the terms. Stop insulting me by pretending I do. I do not treat you that way.
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All-In [34108]
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Wait, is this more refutation on your part?
Dec 28, 2020, 1:51 PM
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I have no idea what you're accusing me of here. Go back and read my posts, and then come back and tell me which fact about election fraud you want refuted.
Actual fact about election fraud, actually causing the state to declare the wrong winner. I promise to give it every bit as much attention and careful refutation as you gave to the Russia "hoax" that you just admitted was not a hoax.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: Wait, is this more refutation on your part?
Dec 28, 2020, 2:37 PM
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You conflating collusion and conspiracy. Collusion is a simple conversation with two parties agreeing to do something. Hillary colluded. Trump colluded, perhaps but the investigation was a waste of time because colluding is not a legal term according to Bob Mueller. He said he found no evidence that any American conspired with Russia to fix the election.
Any contact by either candidate is collusion. The hoax was making idiots believe that something illegal transpired. It did not but you're still harping about how wrong one candidate was while and ignoring that both candidates did it and most of those in the past did the same thing.
My first comment when Felix introduced this topic to the forum was pointing out that collusion is not illegal and trying to explain that concept to those of you who have deaf ears. Remember?
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All-In [34108]
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Re: Wait, is this more refutation on your part?
Dec 28, 2020, 2:52 PM
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I agree that despite there being collusion, Republican Bob Mueller appointed by Republican Rod Rosenstein determined that it did not rise to conspiracy. No argument there. And I accept that determination. Mainly I think that the Trump campaign got lucky because their best chances at conspiracy failed due to their own incompetence.
So, again, I think we've come to an understanding that there was collusion, which has been adamantly denied by Trump and his supporters, and that Mueller declined to find that the evidence rose to the level of conspiracy. But the evidence is what I said it was in my earlier post, which I recommend re-reading because that was just a quick list of easy-to-prove stuff.
Now, which fact did you want to offer in support of election fraud? Can you name one, like I did with the Don Jr. email?
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Wait, is this more refutation on your part?
Dec 28, 2020, 4:36 PM
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I think Mueller did an incomplete job and durn well should have investigated Trump's finances. How can you tell if a guy is compromised if you don't have a look at his money and see if he owes money, and who to?
His own lead attack dog, Andrew Weissman, said much the same. Weismann also mentioned that the investigation was also blunted by two main factors - that the president had the power to fire all of them, and that the president had the power to pardon anyone connected to him.
It stalled them, hugely, and then Bill Barr pretty much put paid to the whole affair with his introductory summary - which had very little to do with the conclusions Mueller's team had put together. It didn't matter; Barr did what he'd set out to do and the narrative was set.
There's a good NPR article about this. Weismann did a pretty extensive postmortem of where exactly Mueller's team came up short, and why:
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/918129496/a-lead-prosecutor-on-muellers-team-weighs-in-on-where-the-investigation-fell-sho
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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All-In [34108]
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who...
Dec 28, 2020, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who... ] |
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Yeah, I know...it's amazing how when you add all that up, it starts looking like an actual conspiracy.
Let's also not forget that Trump owes at least $300 million and probably closer to a billion dollars to some as-yet-unidentified folks who very much appear to be Russian oligarchs - we don't know for sure yet, mind because the paper trail leads through a bunch of shell companies routed through Deutsche Bank's private side, which is incidentally currently under widespread investigation for laundering at least $80 billion dollars to those very same Russian oligarchs, a scheme known as the "Global Laundromat". And the two Russians who handled Donald's accounts at Deutsche Bank did sort of quietly resign last week and skeddadle back to Russia, too. Odd.
I'm absolutely certain Donald was in no way involved in any of that, though. I mean, if he was laundering money, we'd see a bunch of cash infusions that seemed to appear out of thin air, a bunch of businesses losing stupid amounts of money on paper, and of course he'd keep those businesses open even though they're money pits...and, oh, wait. We actually did see all that. A whole lot of that, actually.
I dunno, is that maybe potentially not actually a "collusion hoax", but a shockingly compromised president who was owned hook, line, and sinker by a hostile foreign power? Just maybe so....
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: If he hadn't treated Russia like a red headed step child
Dec 28, 2020, 1:19 PM
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you might have a point. Making America energy independent is the only thing he did to help Russia. Since oil is Russia chief export driving the price of a barrel of oil down and suppressing it for years just doesn't fit your speculation. He helped Russia into the poor house.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who...
Dec 28, 2020, 10:27 AM
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Personally, I thought they were hypocrites as well. Most certainly didn't agree with innocent until proven guilty then and it's the opposite now, it's many Republicans who have already declared Biden guilty.
So, I kinda laugh when I see a poster (who I remember from 2016 posting BS) now suddenly talking about innocent until proven guilty.
as I have said many times, I think national level politicians are all corrupt. I dont trust any of em. ??
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I have posted little on the Hunter laptop story but...
Dec 28, 2020, 11:13 AM
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I will direct you to the audio recordings which reveal that CNN's owner directed his people to shut down any news about Hunter's laptop in the weeks leading up to the election. I think the entire MSM did the same thing and they were the ones pushing the Russian conspiracy story.
Imo, anyone who can't take those two facts and conclude that the MSM is not in the pocket of the DNC is not worthy of respect or honor.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: I have posted little on the Hunter laptop story but...
Dec 28, 2020, 11:18 AM
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I do believe the media is biased.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: I have posted little on the Hunter laptop story but...
Dec 28, 2020, 6:37 PM
[ in reply to I have posted little on the Hunter laptop story but... ] |
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I think you don't know what you're talking about. When you persistently refer to the "MSM" as a singular entity you are showing from the get-go you simply don't know anything about the actual media and in fact know so little you don't even know what you don't know.
There's too much media consolidation, granted, and I particularly don't like this evolving trend of billionaires buying newspapers and media outlets like Bezos owning Washington Post or Bloomberg owning, well, Bloomberg, because it also buys them immunity from scrutiny from the media source they own. WaPo's got magnificent journalist standards, granted...but are they ever really going to investigate their own owner, or even critique Bezos or any of his interests even should they not be aligned with the public interest? Hardly. And that deserves serious discussion.
But there's still hundreds of different un-aligned outlets all competing for the same market share, and they're not all going to just line up like Rockettes and toe the same line. They are competitors. They won't collectively ignore a good lead because stories are their stock-in-trade, and their M.O. has always been: if we don't cover this story, somebody else will.
The "MSM", as you characterize them, really it's just the actual media - just weren't willing to let Rupert Murdoch, Steve Bannon, and Rudy Giuliani lead them down the primrose path again. They eagerly chased the rabbit with the Hillary Clinton E-mail "scandal" just prior to the 2016 election and discovered they'd been had by a weaksauce Russian scam that tilted the election; this time around the same cast of characters tried in clumsy ham-handed transparent fashion to do it yet again with Hunter Biden and his alleged laptop.
To recap just how incredibly stupid the whole premise was: a certain blind repair-shop owner just happened to have been given three laptops by somebody he couldn't identify (because he was blind, see), who never came back for it...and so he looked on it and discovered its troublesome contents and then passed on to the FBI - though not after making a copy of those contents, of course (why?)...and then Rupert Murdoch's outlets tried to run with this dog of a story, the mainstream outlets were all collectively like: nope. No way, no how. Seen this crap-ola before, we ain't biting again. Even if there turned out to be the maps to El Dorado and Jimmy Hoffa's grave on that laptop the MSM weren't going near it because it was the fruit of a thoroughly poisoned tree.
That's what happens when you get outed as liars and purveyors of misinformation...and then come forth with another obvious fabrication in the 59th minute of the 11th hour. Nobody will ever listen to you again...a lesson you yourself seem to have failed to grasp.
You hand somebody a dog turd and tell them there's a real diamond hidden inside, they're not going to look...not a second time, anyhow. I keep telling you that and you keep not understanding it.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who...
Dec 28, 2020, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who... ] |
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I agree with you on the corruption. When they pass bills that make no sense what so ever then someone is setup to make a killing off of it.
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110%er [5675]
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Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who...
Dec 28, 2020, 2:03 PM
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spooneye®
W T F. You cite a bunch of meetings like they are evidence of wrong-doing. Let's go to the source document...
Tell me what evidence supports any of the lunacy in the Steele Dossier. Trump has had "operatives" within the DNC and in Russia for more than a decade (according to the doc). Yet, there is not one email, not one text, not one phone call, NOTHING over the past decade to even remotely prove it. Unlike the texts Strzok sent, unlike the classified emails HRC sent, unlike the meeting between AG Lynch and Clinton which all agree happened, unlike Big Guy demanding Ukraine fire their prosecutor looking into HB's employer.
Quit making chit up and go with the evidence that is out there. Evidence. Not hearsay. I do not know of evidence of widespread voter fraud, so I'm not ranting about it.
The Dossier says Trump participated in a prostitute filled urination party with video. Really, where is the video? Where are the people claiming they were there and saw it - there are none because it didn't happen.
You will all be waiting for OJ to find Nicole's killer until the day he dies and still believing if the glove didn't fit you must acquit. There is no killer (besides OJ) just like there is no Russian collusion.
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All-In [34108]
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Re: Be hereby notified that all of P&R posters who...
Dec 28, 2020, 2:11 PM
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I see. You are wanting me to defend the Steele Dossier (a document I've never read) because I referred to facts from the Mueller Report?
Well, I don't know what to tell you. That's kinda weird. You, uh, win?
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Legend [16252]
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As I stated back in the day, Mueller would not be able
Dec 30, 2020, 11:17 AM
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to establish many absolutes in that investigation considering the quagmire of lies and deceit from Trump's mafia-like inner circle, along with having pardons dangled and in play as a potential reward for silence from the start - the ultimate weapon that crime syndicates can only dream about. Many were caught lying and were summarily charged with such and either convicted or confessed (now mostly pardoned of course), but with a limited scope (no financials review ability) at hand the ability to form absolutes in this environment was null. It played out exactly as I called it - many bad actors who worked in and around the campaign, but nothing shared to prove an organized, collective effort - just individual bad actors within the campaign.
We would have all been better served early on if a bi-partisan group of congressional leadership would have had the ability to review Trump's financials in order to determine whether there were national security threats involved. If nothing there - move on. If something there - investigate. Pretty simple. Considering Trump has taken every single effort to prevent sharing these financials to me says quite a lot. My belief that Trump is an absolute fraud is one thing (he is), but America chose him to lead (once) so that's that. Now America has chosen someone else and that's that.
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