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YOUR BALANCE
Basketball season is here.
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Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 12:29 PM

Basketball practice has started, so let's talk basketball. I know, it's football season and many of you want to ban basketball posts during football season. Well, get over it.

Several articles have been posted here predicting a horrible season for us. These "experts" state that even if things go right, we should expect to miss the postseason. So we might as well just skip the season and fire Brownell, right?

Not so fast. We have quietly assembled some key upgrades to our roster. The most notable are in the backcourt. Although we lost Al-Amir Dawes and Nick Honor to transfer, we brought in four star freshman PG Dillon Hunter who we flipped from Baylor, as well as super-super senior Brevin Galloway from Boston College. Let's not forget about Josh Beadle, who redshirted last year as a true freshman. This was done because we feel that he can be an all-conference player before it's all said and done. He could've played last year, but he trusted the process and redshirted to work on his game. I predict that it will pay dividends for us, starting this year.

Dillon Hunter handles the ball well and provides nice size (6'4") and uncommon decision making for a freshman. I predict he will see a lot of minutes this year. He takes care of the ball well. His shot isn't quite as consistent as the coaches would like, but it's coming around. His brother, Chase Hunter, really improved last year and will certainly get starter's minutes at one of the guard spots. He can also assist in ball handling.

Brevin Galloway battled injuries most of last year, but is finally healthy and hopes to regain the shooting form that allowed him to put up some outstanding numbers early in his college career. He will provide a nice spark for us. Beadle will surely provide some memorable moments as well. He is a scorer who can shoot from the outside and also get to the basket for highlight dunks. Let's not forget about senior Alex Hemenway either. I look for him to continue his good outside shooting this year.

Finally, true freshman Chauncey Gibson is a big guard (6'5") who can handle and shoot. He played against good competition in Dallas, TX and brings a lot of athleticism and versatility to our backcourt. He isn't projected to get as many minutes this year due to the players ahead of him, but he is a guy who can develop into an excellent player.

The net result in the backcourt is improved height and athleticism. This is huge, because Honor and Dawes were sometimes overmatched on both ends of the court.

At the wings, we lost David Collins. However, freshman RJ Godfrey (6'7," 225) provides excellent size and athleticism. He has been impressive so far, and looks to get valuable minutes this year. Hunter Tyson returns for his "super senior" season, which is a huge recruiting coup for our staff. He brings toughness, leadership, and good outside shooting. He is also an underrated rebounder. He will probably see most of his minutes at the 4, but he can possibly play the 3 if we want to go big, depending on matchups.

In addition to Tyson down low, we also have PJ Hall who will anchor our team on both ends of the court. He is an All-ACC caliber player but has battled injuries for much of his Clemson career. His most recent injury puts his return date up in the air, with projections being as soon as the start of the season to as late as January. The 6'10," 240 pound junior needs to be healthy this year, and the hope is that he is given time to fully recover. He hasn't really practiced consistently since he was a freshman. Last year, his foot injury was so bad that he was usually held out of practice so that he would be able to play in the games. If we get into a situation this year where he misses extended time, or is battling injuries off and on, we are going to have a long year.

Thankfully, we still have other good players down low. In addition to the aforementioned Hunter Tyson, we also have sophomore Ian Schieffelin (6'7," 225) who showed good athleticism and versatility last year as a true freshman. Ben Middlebrooks (6'10," 232) also got quality minutes last year as a true freshman and has nice upside. Finally, true freshman Chauncey Wiggins (6'9," 205) provides good size and athleticism off the bench.

This roster is one of the most talented Brownell has had. The two biggest questions in my mind are:

1. Can PJ Hall get (and stay) healthy?
2. Can the team develop good chemistry, especially with the new additions?

The answer to question #1 is certainly unknown, but again, my hope is that PJ is given time to fully heal and isn't rushed back before he's ready. Regarding #2, the timing of the trip to France this summer was perfect, as it allowed our team to form meaningful bonds. This will only help as we get into the season.

I like this team a lot. I know that they will play their tails off, as Brownell teams always do. I also believe that we have more players in the Brownell mold that are a better fit for what we are trying to do.

Leadership will be key this year, as it always is. Hunter Tyson is an excellent leader. PJ Hall is developing into more of a vocal leader. Hemenway is a leader too. I'll be interested to see how Galloway does as a veteran voice, but based on what I've seen from him he will also be a vocal leader. Their voices will be important given the fact that we have a lot of younger guys who are still learning.

My crystal ball isn't working today, but I can tell you that this team is poised to surprise people. Brownell teams almost always outperform preseason expectations, and this team will do the same. Don't listen to the haters who say that we are awful and can't have a great year. We can have a great year. Support this team. Be excited about what is happening. Clemson grit!

Go Tigers!

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Ok I'll ask...


Oct 12, 2022, 12:33 PM

What if we don't "surprise" people and miss the NCAA Tourney...

You think Brownell deserves to be retained?...

???

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I don't think it's nearly as simple as


Oct 12, 2022, 12:39 PM

Neff requiring Brad to make NCAA Tournament this year to keep his job.

Our new assistants were great hires in my opinion, but expecting them to dramatically transform this year's team after only being brought in this summer is ridiculous. However, I think it is reasonable to expect to see improvement. I think we will see that.

A lot hinges on PJ Hall as well. If PJ is injured most or all of the year, I don't think Brownell will be fired. I would support that decision.

If we have a relatively healthy roster this year and don't make the NCAA Tournament, I think Brad will quite possibly be fired. I would support that decision too.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I don't think it's nearly as simple as


Oct 12, 2022, 12:41 PM

"If we have a relatively healthy roster this year and don't make the NCAA Tournament, I think Brad will quite possibly be fired. I would support that decision too".

???

2024 orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Translation:


Oct 12, 2022, 12:57 PM

If we have some injuries every year (as almost all teams do), then it’s only fair that Brad gets to remain the coach until the end of time.

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Re: I don't think it's nearly as simple as


Oct 12, 2022, 3:51 PM [ in reply to I don't think it's nearly as simple as ]

I agree with basically your whole summation coming down to Hall. If he is ready we could have a special season. The longer it takes to get him back the less likely that is.

I'm also glad Neff has the gun to BB's head. No Big Dance, new coach. As it should be after all of this time...

Personally, I hope they can turn it around for him. Go Tigers!

2024 purple level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Neff hasn’t stated that it’s Big Dance or bust.


Oct 12, 2022, 4:34 PM

Nor is that his mentality going into the season.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Neff hasn’t stated that it’s Big Dance or bust.


Oct 12, 2022, 4:47 PM

He certainly wouldn't say it out loud and undercut BB this year but I just intuitively think it is implied with all the pressure he will get if we don't get results this year.

The main metric has to be making the Big Dance. When 68 teams get in and in 13 years you've only managed to crack the Top 68 teams 3 times, how many chances does a major conference coach deserve? Not many programs other than Clemson would have gone this long for these results and I don't think Neff is going to sit on his thumbs for this one if we don't make it again this year.

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A few questions


Oct 12, 2022, 5:35 PM [ in reply to I don't think it's nearly as simple as ]

How can you say the backcourt has been upgraded when 3 of the 5 guys you mentioned have never played a college game? It's a complete unknown.

Who is our PG? Neither Hunter nor Galloway have played the position. That leaves freshmen.

Godfrey has nice long term potential, but will He be better than Collins was as a senior?

Who scores in the paint until Hall returns, whenever that is? And even when he does return, it's going to take a while to round into shape.

I never write off a season, always look forward to them. But if this team with all the inexperience and it's best player out until Who knows when finishes .500 it will be a shocker. Without Hall, do we have anyone else who would start for any other ACC team? If so, who, and where?

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Our backcourt is better based on having taller, more versatile players.


Oct 12, 2022, 7:00 PM

Dawes and Honor were rarely more than streaky three point shooters on offense, and big liabilities on defense.

Chase Hunter is a redshirt junior who played big minutes last year. He is the most talented of our three primary guards last year (Dawes, Honor, and Hunter).

Galloway is a super senior who played about 25 minutes a game last year. He’s battle tested.

Alex Hemenway is a senior who has also been battle tested.

Dillon Hunter may be a freshman, but he is a very talented one who was a four star top 100 player. He is our PG, but Chase and Brevin can play the position when needed.

I feel great about this backcourt.

Hunter Tyson will step up down low. He would start for plenty of ACC teams. Schieffelin is improved as well.

Obviously we have a lot of unanswered questions, but that’s true of every team in this age of unprecedented roster turnover. Every team has a bunch of new faces.

Which teams do you feel don’t have lots of unanswered questions at this point?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


You left out inexperienced


Oct 12, 2022, 10:21 PM

and seem very forgetful that freshmen rarely excel defensively

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Your tone seems really angry lately.


Oct 13, 2022, 9:08 AM

You okay?

This is supposed to be a discussion, not an argument.

Yes, like all freshmen, Dillon Hunter is inexperienced. He will gain valuable experience soon.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Where is it angry? I'm realistic


Oct 13, 2022, 4:13 PM

this roster with so much inexperience does not point to a good season. Name one Clemson team with 4 freshmen, 2 sophomores who barely played, 4 vets who have been role players most of their careers and 1 legit star that has had any kind of season. We're counting on guys upping their games by huge leaps. Multiple guys

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There is nothing about your post that has angry about it.


Oct 13, 2022, 4:49 PM

He's a troll. All the time.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


And you know Tyson is not a low post player in any way


Oct 12, 2022, 10:22 PM [ in reply to Our backcourt is better based on having taller, more versatile players. ]

shape or form. Galloway was the 4th best G at BC

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to.


Oct 13, 2022, 9:11 AM

It’s not his ideal position, but he is a lot tougher than you give him credit for. Good rebounder too.

He can create matchup problems for other bigs with his ability to stretch the defense.

Galloway played 25 minutes a game last year. That’s a bit much for the supposed fourth best guard on the team. LOL.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to.


Oct 13, 2022, 11:36 AM

Boston College literally had 3 guards with more starts, minutes, and points. He was the 4th best guard on that team by any definition. As usual. More casual lies from Jk. LOL.

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Re: Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to.


Oct 13, 2022, 12:59 PM

viztiz® said:

Boston College literally had 3 guards with more starts, minutes, and points. He was the 4th best guard on that team by any definition. As usual. More casual lies from Jk. LOL.



Viztiz once got mad at me for bashing our former players. Well here he is bashing our current players. What a hypocrite.

Like everything you post, this lacks context and additional knowledge. Did you know brevin Galloway was hurt all last year? Did you know he could badly walk during the Clemson game, and he got a knee injection at half time?

Despite being injured all year, he still average 8.3 ppg while only player 24 minutes a game. He is actually the second best guard on the team when looking at points per minute played. The only guard that averaged more was makai Langford, and he averaged .349 points per minute played and brevin Galloway averaged .346 points per minute.

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What did he say in regards to BC last year that wasn't true?


Oct 13, 2022, 4:18 PM

So truth equals bashing him?

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Re: Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to.


Oct 13, 2022, 4:26 PM [ in reply to Re: Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to. ]

I’m correcting JK’s assertion. Why are you so vested in defending him ?? His stat line puts him 4th. I’m glad you have your own spin but I was responding to JK who dismissed striperfan’s ranking. Which holds up under most analysis regardless of extenuating circumstances. JK himself had plenty of negative things to say about Galloway when people wanted to know he wasn’t recruited by Clemson. By all the advanced metrics on sports reference Galloway was the least impactful of the 4 guards. That doesn’t mean he won’t be impactful at Clemson but it does mean JK is lying when he says he wasn’t the 4th best at BC. He doesn’t even try to qualify like you. He just asserts it isn’t true. Why does your ethical compass only align with certain posters? That seems far more hypocritical that anything I’ve posted. And no, I don’t like talking negative about players. But I’m not going to let that hesitation allow blatant disinformation.

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Re: Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to.


Oct 14, 2022, 7:52 PM

He was hurt, played less minutes than the others, but he was close to the top of the team in production pr minute played.

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Tyson played 4 all year last year


Oct 13, 2022, 4:15 PM [ in reply to Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to. ]

he's played 4 his entire career. He's a stretch 4, not a back to the basket post player. He's never played the low post here

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He has shown that he can post up at times.


Oct 14, 2022, 10:08 AM

Again, it's not ideal for him to be a back to the basket player, but he can do it if he has to.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Him in the low post takes away our best perimeter


Oct 14, 2022, 12:30 PM

threat. He won't be down low much. We can't afford to have him down low with Hall out. We're going to struggle to score with no Hall and threes will be vital

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Correct, we would much prefer to have Tyson on the perimeter


Oct 14, 2022, 12:49 PM

as opposed to banging down low.

The point about him playing down low was if PJ is out and we need him to help Middlebrooks and Schieffelin. In other words, not ideal but the point is that Tyson can fill in there if needed.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Look at their stats from last year


Oct 13, 2022, 4:16 PM [ in reply to Tyson can play the 4 if we need him to. ]

4th best.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: I don't think it's nearly as simple as


Oct 12, 2022, 6:34 PM [ in reply to I don't think it's nearly as simple as ]

It’s very simple, make the postseason or get fired

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Brownell has sucked for 12 years...No more time is needed***


Oct 12, 2022, 10:34 PM [ in reply to I don't think it's nearly as simple as ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Bullcrap. It's just as simple as that.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:39 PM [ in reply to I don't think it's nearly as simple as ]

Underperform yet again, miss the tournament again, and your husband is toast.

Your (same as every year) optimism is nice, but the 12 year data speaks for itself.

I like your husband. He's a cool dude and has done everything right, but win enough.

This is it. Make the tourney this year, or y'all are gonna have to find a new gig.

Good luck, Mrs B! GO TIGERS!

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Re: Ok I'll ask...


Oct 13, 2022, 11:31 AM [ in reply to Ok I'll ask... ]

You think JK would actually answer that his relative could be fired?

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If we are healthy this year and finish with a bad record


Oct 14, 2022, 10:09 AM

I will support moving on from Brownell.

The expectation, of course, is that we will make a great hire to replace him - not simply a "young up and comer" from a mid-major program. That's what we always do and that almost never works.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


And it NEVER works for us - including currently. And


Oct 14, 2022, 12:56 PM

for the last 12 years.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 12:39 PM

A "good" surprise would be awesome. Had plenty that were not.

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Lucky Johnson


Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 12:44 PM

Hope I'm wrong but Clemson basketball seems to be the same every year. Not looking forward to it for that reason.

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Softball deserves some of the $$$ that basketball gets***


Oct 12, 2022, 12:45 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Softball deserves some of the $$$ that basketball gets


Oct 12, 2022, 1:20 PM

Since you likely don't know who gets what now thanks for your uniformed and meaningless opinion

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You too***


Oct 12, 2022, 1:45 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

A coach successful in his 1st and 2nd year!!!


Oct 12, 2022, 10:35 PM [ in reply to Softball deserves some of the $$$ that basketball gets*** ]

And created the program. Wow.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 12:47 PM

How far can this go if PJ Hall is not able to return to form this year? Is there anyone on the team that can be a adequate replacement?
Will this team be able to dominate on the boards?
There is no criticism intended, just questions from a fan who doesn’t know this team that well.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 12:59 PM

If no PJ, I think this could be an NIT team at best. That would require Chase Hunter and Hunter Tyson having career years, and at least one freshman being outstanding. I don't think we can make the NCAA Tournament this year without PJ.

Hall, Tyson, and Middlebrooks are all good rebounders. I don't think we will have a problem there. Having better height along the perimeter will help with rebounding too, especially on long rebounds.

No criticism taken. Very reasonable questions.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:06 PM


If no PJ, I think this could be an NIT team at best. That would require Chase Hunter and Hunter Tyson having career years, and at least one freshman being outstanding. I don't think we can make the NCAA Tournament this year without PJ.

Hall, Tyson, and Middlebrooks are all good rebounders. I don't think we will have a problem there. Having better height along the perimeter will help with rebounding too, especially on long rebounds.

No criticism taken. Very reasonable questions.



I'm happy we have multiple big men on the bench that can go in, rebound, and be competent offensively. Schef and middlebrooks are both competent. Schef can hit the 3 and middlebrooks showed some good post moves last year. Both need to improve this year. We also have 6-9 Chauncey Wiggins that can shoot, and is tall and athletic.

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Middlebrook made 13 FG all of last year


Oct 12, 2022, 5:42 PM

when did he show good post moves? He didn't score in France either. We are a black hole in the post until Hall returns

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You are not giving Tyson or Schieffelin nearly enough credit.


Oct 12, 2022, 8:50 PM

Tyson has shown a nice turnaround jumper out of the post, and Ian has a jump hook out of the post.

No one is saying that they are Kevin McHale, but both are competent.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Neither is close to a 5


Oct 12, 2022, 10:29 PM

they are stretch 4's. 6'7 post players play at Furman, not in the ACC.

You can pump this roster all you want, but basically, we have an injured star in Hall, a few veterans who have mostly been role players, and a bunch of guys who have hardly or never played at all.

I do hope you're right, but I honestly can't see it. I wish I could

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I never said that Tyson and Schieffelin are 5s.***


Oct 13, 2022, 11:21 AM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Which until Hall returns leaves us with a black hole


Oct 13, 2022, 4:21 PM

in the post. And we'd better hope he gets up to speed quickly

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Yes, Hall is very important to our success.


Oct 14, 2022, 10:12 AM

We all understand that. No need for you to disparage our current players to make that point.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


You disparage our current players constantly by


Oct 14, 2022, 10:30 AM

incessantly whining about Brown L not having the support to recruit and stock our roster better than he's had over his twelve years here. It's your constant, unending refrain when it comes to basketball. You're essentially saying the players we have at any given time aren't good enough to win, but it's not Brown L's fault, it's Clemson's fans and admin's fault. The takeaway from you is the same - we don't have good enough players for Brown L to succeed.

Like the Brad, you have no problem throwing our kids under the bus when he comes up short on the winning side.

Striperfan has been providing a sober, honest rundown of the experience this roster has entering this season, while you've been sanctimoniously going at him with snide insults and digs for doing so.

Sad.

Go Tigers.

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Judge gonna Judge when it comes to Brad


Oct 14, 2022, 12:39 PM

I've never, ever been a fire Brad drum beater. I have said, after 12 years, his tenure here has run its course. He is a well known commodity. Sometimes things just run their course

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

So being honest about what they can and cannot


Oct 14, 2022, 12:36 PM [ in reply to Yes, Hall is very important to our success. ]

do is now disparaging? Gotcha!

Tyson is Larry Bird
Chase Hunter is Jerry West
Dillon Hunter is John Stockton
Ben Middlebrooks is Brad Daugherty
Godfrey is Bernard King

#chapionship!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We haven't played any games yet this year


Oct 14, 2022, 12:54 PM

so your definitive statements about what our players can or cannot do is premature.

Our guys have been working their tails off since March. They have played against international competition when most guys weren't playing anyone. They've practiced a lot and been dedicated to their offseason workouts. So while we have an idea of the skill sets of our returning players, it's premature to assume that they won't be able to contribute more than they did last year.

And we certainly don't know how the freshmen will perform, as they have never played in college.

No one is declaring that our roster is full of superstars, but the point is that it's not unreasonable to expect improvement from our players since last year. I would think that you would err toward giving them the benefit of the doubt rather than acting like they are bad players who won't help us.

We are far from the least talented roster in the ACC, yet you seem to suggest that we don't have any hope of having a good year.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Welllll - we still have Brownlee, so that's the biggest rub.***


Oct 14, 2022, 12:58 PM



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


I'm not sure you can call those teams from France


Oct 14, 2022, 6:00 PM [ in reply to We haven't played any games yet this year ]

competition. Even you have to admit they were pretty bad. So, we had a chance to bond as a team and have glorified scrimmages.

Tyson is in his 5th year. I'm pretty sure I've seen what he can and cannot do. Hunter and Hemenway are in their 4th year. Again, I'm pretty sure I've seen what they can and cannot do. Unless you're expecting someone to explode like Gabe Devoe as a senior, which has happened one time, with Gabe Devoe, I'm pretty sure we know what type players they are.

They all play hard. But unless there is a massive leap, we know what all of them can do

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Can't wait for Brownell to finally be fired.***


Oct 12, 2022, 10:36 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]



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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 12:51 PM


Basketball practice has started, so let's talk basketball. I know, it's football season and many of you want to ban basketball posts during football season. Well, get over it.

Several articles have been posted here predicting a horrible season for us. These "experts" state that even if things go right, we should expect to miss the postseason. So we might as well just skip the season and fire Brownell, right?

Not so fast. We have quietly assembled some key upgrades to our roster. The most notable are in the backcourt. Although we lost Al-Amir Dawes and Nick Honor to transfer, we brought in four star freshman PG Dillon Hunter who we flipped from Baylor, as well as super-super senior Brevin Galloway from Boston College. Let's not forget about Josh Beadle, who redshirted last year as a true freshman. This was done because we feel that he can be an all-conference player before it's all said and done. He could've played last year, but he trusted the process and redshirted to work on his game. I predict that it will pay dividends for us, starting this year.

Dillon Hunter handles the ball well and provides nice size (6'4") and uncommon decision making for a freshman. I predict he will see a lot of minutes this year. He takes care of the ball well. His shot isn't quite as consistent as the coaches would like, but it's coming around. His brother, Chase Hunter, really improved last year and will certainly get starter's minutes at one of the guard spots. He can also assist in ball handling.

Brevin Galloway battled injuries most of last year, but is finally healthy and hopes to regain the shooting form that allowed him to put up some outstanding numbers early in his college career. He will provide a nice spark for us. Beadle will surely provide some memorable moments as well. He is a scorer who can shoot from the outside and also get to the basket for highlight dunks. Let's not forget about senior Alex Hemenway either. I look for him to continue his good outside shooting this year.

Finally, true freshman Chauncey Gibson is a big guard (6'5") who can handle and shoot. He played against good competition in Dallas, TX and brings a lot of athleticism and versatility to our backcourt. He isn't projected to get as many minutes this year due to the players ahead of him, but he is a guy who can develop into an excellent player.

The net result in the backcourt is improved height and athleticism. This is huge, because Honor and Dawes were sometimes overmatched on both ends of the court.

At the wings, we lost David Collins. However, freshman RJ Godfrey (6'7," 225) provides excellent size and athleticism. He has been impressive so far, and looks to get valuable minutes this year. Hunter Tyson returns for his "super senior" season, which is a huge recruiting coup for our staff. He brings toughness, leadership, and good outside shooting. He is also an underrated rebounder. He will probably see most of his minutes at the 4, but he can possibly play the 3 if we want to go big, depending on matchups.

In addition to Tyson down low, we also have PJ Hall who will anchor our team on both ends of the court. He is an All-ACC caliber player but has battled injuries for much of his Clemson career. His most recent injury puts his return date up in the air, with projections being as soon as the start of the season to as late as January. The 6'10," 240 pound junior needs to be healthy this year, and the hope is that he is given time to fully recover. He hasn't really practiced consistently since he was a freshman. Last year, his foot injury was so bad that he was usually held out of practice so that he would be able to play in the games. If we get into a situation this year where he misses extended time, or is battling injuries off and on, we are going to have a long year.

Thankfully, we still have other good players down low. In addition to the aforementioned Hunter Tyson, we also have sophomore Ian Schieffelin (6'7," 225) who showed good athleticism and versatility last year as a true freshman. Ben Middlebrooks (6'10," 232) also got quality minutes last year as a true freshman and has nice upside. Finally, true freshman Chauncey Wiggins (6'9," 205) provides good size and athleticism off the bench.

This roster is one of the most talented Brownell has had. The two biggest questions in my mind are:

1. Can PJ Hall get (and stay) healthy?
2. Can the team develop good chemistry, especially with the new additions?

The answer to question #1 is certainly unknown, but again, my hope is that PJ is given time to fully heal and isn't rushed back before he's ready. Regarding #2, the timing of the trip to France this summer was perfect, as it allowed our team to form meaningful bonds. This will only help as we get into the season.

I like this team a lot. I know that they will play their tails off, as Brownell teams always do. I also believe that we have more players in the Brownell mold that are a better fit for what we are trying to do.

Leadership will be key this year, as it always is. Hunter Tyson is an excellent leader. PJ Hall is developing into more of a vocal leader. Hemenway is a leader too. I'll be interested to see how Galloway does as a veteran voice, but based on what I've seen from him he will also be a vocal leader. Their voices will be important given the fact that we have a lot of younger guys who are still learning.

My crystal ball isn't working today, but I can tell you that this team is poised to surprise people. Brownell teams almost always outperform preseason expectations, and this team will do the same. Don't listen to the haters who say that we are awful and can't have a great year. We can have a great year. Support this team. Be excited about what is happening. Clemson grit!

Go Tigers!


Like your analysis.

Still think you are not looking at overall youth in the backcourt playing key roles and the learning curve associated with it. None of the young guys are consensus top 60 players are ready to thrive immediately.
The ACC is a lot better at the top and bottom except for two or three spots. Name me 9 Teams in the ACC that Clemson is better at looking at roster experience, highly regarded top 60 freshmen, and additions from the transfer portal? The ACC is not getting more than 7 maybe 8 teams in the NCAAT is the reason I ask this?

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We aren't counting on freshmen for significant contributions


Oct 12, 2022, 1:04 PM

The possible exception is Dillon Hunter. He is 64th in the ESPN 100, so he fits your description of a talented freshman.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/238291/dillon-hunter


The players we will be relying heavily on have significant experience (Hall, Tyson, Chase Hunter). Those are our three best players and likely our three leading scorers.

We will also have other experienced players such as Galloway, Hemenway, etc.

The youth is with our depth. As long as we stay healthy, the young guys can develop on schedule rather than being forced into action before they are ready.

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Re: We aren't counting on freshmen for significant contributions


Oct 12, 2022, 1:09 PM


The possible exception is Dillon Hunter. He is 64th in the ESPN 100, so he fits your description of a talented freshman.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/238291/dillon-hunter


The players we will be relying heavily on have significant experience (Hall, Tyson, Chase Hunter). Those are our three best players and likely our three leading scorers.

We will also have other experienced players such as Galloway, Hemenway, etc.

The youth is with our depth. As long as we stay healthy, the young guys can develop on schedule rather than being forced into action before they are ready.


I said consensus top 60.

Where was Dillon rated from Rivals and 247? He dropped to a top 150 type on most recruiting services. He has a lot of potential but until he improves as a shooter he will be a mostly developmental player who should be backing up, not getting potetial major minutes at PG.

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It's interesting that you don't count Dillon Hunter


Oct 12, 2022, 1:43 PM

as a good recruit.

He's a very good player. You'll see this year.

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Re: It's interesting that you don't count Dillon Hunter


Oct 12, 2022, 3:33 PM

Dillon Hunter had a great offer sheet. I put a lot more stock in that than recruiting numerical rankings anyway.

I really liked what I saw out of him in the open practice. Obviously that's not terribly meaningful, but he looked like a contributor. Same with Chauncey Wiggins. RJ Godfrey looks raw, and I think it's going to be a while before Chauncey Gibson contributes -- but he will if he sticks with it.

I think this team could be really good. All depends on how quickly PJ recovers and how quickly some of these freshmen (lumping Beadle in with them too) can contribute meaningfully.

I'm excited for the season. But if we don't dance, I do think Brownell should be done at Clemson. This is a huge season for the program, and I hope it's one where we make the tournament and win a game or two.

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Re: It's interesting that you don't count Dillon Hunter


Oct 12, 2022, 5:01 PM [ in reply to It's interesting that you don't count Dillon Hunter ]

People don't realize he went the prep school route. When he was a sophomore he was the PG on the team that had the #1 player that year.

He's played on high profile teams his entire high school career. He is a stud. Here is him on sports center

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/1197925365123076097?s=46&t=CN3JbbGNI57IApWSb1i_sw

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:08 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]

Like your analysis.

Still think you are not looking at overall youth in the backcourt playing key roles and the learning curve associated with it. None of the young guys are consensus top 60 players are ready to thrive immediately.
The ACC is a lot better at the top and bottom except for two or three spots. Name me 9 Teams in the ACC that Clemson is better at looking at roster experience, highly regarded top 60 freshmen, and additions from the transfer portal? The ACC is not getting more than 7 maybe 8 teams in the NCAAT is the reason I ask this?


THE TROLL HAS SPOKEN. SHE HAS BEEN WAITING FOR MONTHS TO GET HERE SO SHE CAN BASH THE BASKETBALL PROGRAM.

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Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC


Oct 12, 2022, 1:41 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]

I think our roster is better than:

-Georgia Tech - finished 14th last year, and have lost both Devoe and Usher from last year's team.

-Pittsburgh - finished tied for 11th last year, lost 7 players to the portal, and likely won't have Dior Johnson (top 60 recruit who is in a bunch of legal trouble).

-Louisville - finished tied for 11th last year, and lost three players to graduation and five players to the transfer portal. They also probably won't have five star recruit DJ Wagner (likely heading to Kentucky).

-Boston College - finished tied for 11th last year, and do return four starters, but I like our roster more.

-NC State - finished 15th last year, lost Seabron and Hellems to the draft, and lost four players to the portal.

-Wake Forest - finished 5th last year, but loses Williams and LaRavia from last year's team. They are likely to drop.

-Syracuse - finished 9th last year, but loses both Boeheim and Swider to the draft as well as several other players.

If we outperform these seven teams, that puts us squarely in the middle of the pack in the ACC and very much in the NCAA Tournament discussion.

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Re: Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC


Oct 12, 2022, 1:44 PM

ah yes, year 13. Where every great coach puts himself "very much" in the NCAA Tournament discussion. If only more fans had come to that one Virginia game!

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Re: Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC


Oct 12, 2022, 1:55 PM [ in reply to Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC ]


I think our roster is better than:

-Georgia Tech - finished 14th last year, and have lost both Devoe and Usher from last year's team.

-Pittsburgh - finished tied for 11th last year, lost 7 players to the portal, and likely won't have Dior Johnson (top 60 recruit who is in a bunch of legal trouble).

-Louisville - finished tied for 11th last year, and lost three players to graduation and five players to the transfer portal. They also probably won't have five star recruit DJ Wagner (likely heading to Kentucky).

-Boston College - finished tied for 11th last year, and do return four starters, but I like our roster more.

-NC State - finished 15th last year, lost Seabron and Hellems to the draft, and lost four players to the portal.

-Wake Forest - finished 5th last year, but loses Williams and LaRavia from last year's team. They are likely to drop.

-Syracuse - finished 9th last year, but loses both Boeheim and Swider to the draft as well as several other players.

If we outperform these seven teams, that puts us squarely in the middle of the pack in the ACC and very much in the NCAA Tournament discussion.


You just indicated all the negative parts of all those teams. Nothing about portal additions or highly regarded recruits. Some will be worse, but Pitt, BC and Nancy State got better by who they brought in the portal and/or recruits. I actually think Pitt will be better without Johnson. He is going to be a big distraction and head case for the season.

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Re: Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC


Oct 12, 2022, 2:12 PM

You seem to put a lot of value in transfer portal players. All offseason, I read posts from you that seemed super impressed at who other ACC teams got in the portal and really unimpressed at our lack of splash portal signees.

I don't think most of the portal players our ACC peers got, coupled with the high school recruits they signed, will make much of a difference - and certainly not enough of a difference to overcome who they lost. For example:

Pitt brought in two 4 star, top 100 recruits, a transfer from Iowa State who averaged 10 points per game, an undersized guard from Colgate who averaged 14 points per game, and a Marquette transfer guard who averaged 7 points per game. Remember, they lost SEVEN players from last year's 11th place team to the portal. And you think they will be better than us?!?

Georgia Tech added a 12 point per game scorer from South Alabama and a 14 point per game scorer from Gardner-Webb to a team that last 33 points per game from Devoe and Usher, and brought in one recruit from Latvia. They finished 14th in the league last year, and you think they will be better than us?!?

NC State brought in a 13 point per game undersized guard from Ole Miss, a 12 point per game scorer from La Salle, at 15 point per game transfer from Winthrop, a 5 point per game big man from Utah, and one 4-star recruit. They finished last in the conference last year, are losing two players from that team to the NBA Draft, and you think they will be better than us?!?

I can do this for the other teams I listed as well, but you get the point.

Our losses weren't nearly as great as the teams below us in the standings last year, nor were their additions superior to ours to result in them jumping us in the standings this year. I see 10th as a worst case scenario for us this year, barring significant injuries.

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And we haven't placed alot of importance on the portal?


Oct 14, 2022, 12:42 PM

Good grief man!

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This year we didn't.


Oct 14, 2022, 12:56 PM

We signed four high school recruits, leaving less room for portal players.

Some people just want to complain. In the past, it was that we relied too much on the portal and couldn't recruit high school players. This year, we sign a nice group of high school players and people complain that we didn't get enough good players from the portal.

People need to make up their minds.

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You never heard me complain about the portal


Oct 14, 2022, 5:53 PM

this year however, when we really needed them, we missed though. We sure recruited enough guys who said no. So we're left with freshmen at PG and SF.

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Re: Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC


Oct 12, 2022, 1:57 PM [ in reply to Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC ]

Im not sure you can count on NC State not being all that good. Terquavion Smith is coming back and DJ Burns transferred in. Burns transferred in from Winthrop but was originally at Tennessee and was a 4 star coming out of HS. The only SC players rated higher in his class were zion and ja morant.

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Re: Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC


Oct 12, 2022, 2:04 PM

Nc stare lost 4 out of their top 5 scorers. The recruiting class that they brought in, including transfers was rated#67 in the nation.

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NC State will finish at or near the bottom of the ACC again


Oct 12, 2022, 2:13 PM [ in reply to Re: Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC ]

and Keatts will be fired.

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Sounds like a mid pack finish and left out of the NCAA.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:45 PM [ in reply to Regarding our roster versus the rest of the ACC ]

Not good enough. Time for a new coach after 12 years.

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Serious question Judge…


Oct 12, 2022, 12:53 PM

Why do you care so much about Basketball? (Not a flame)

Clemson has always been a “football first” school. I admire your dedication to the basketball program.

I must admit during the Rick Barnes and Oliver Pernell years I kept a very high interest in Clemson basketball. It’s def easy to do when the teams are winning and competing.

Again, why do you care so much about it!?

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Speaking entirely for myself...


Oct 12, 2022, 1:09 PM

I care about all Clemson sports and want to see them all do well.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Speaking entirely for myself...actually you're not


Oct 12, 2022, 1:25 PM

just you're speaking for yourself but for most well informed fans who love our school. I really have very little use for our football only and every other sport be darned fans.

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Back in my student-athlete days...


Oct 12, 2022, 2:13 PM

sharing a weight training facility, you got to know a lot of student-athletes from the other sports (tennis, volleyball, swimming, baseball, diving, hoops, etc.) and it's wasn't at all uncommon to go watch them play.

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Re: Speaking entirely for myself...


Oct 12, 2022, 1:34 PM [ in reply to Speaking entirely for myself... ]

Same- I’ll watch any Clemson athletic event with more gusto than any professional competition.

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It says a lot about our fan base


Oct 12, 2022, 1:47 PM [ in reply to Serious question Judge… ]

when someone gets questioned for loving our basketball program.

To answer your question, I've always loved basketball and since I grew up a Clemson fan, it was only natural to become a big Clemson basketball fan.

It's weird that you think it's odd that someone could care a lot about Clemson basketball.

For us to take the next step and stop being just a football school, we need to embrace basketball as important also. It shouldn't just be something to disregard until football is over, and then only seem to care about it until spring football practice starts.

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Re: It says a lot about our fan base


Oct 12, 2022, 1:59 PM

You don’t love our basketball program. HTH anyone reading.

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Re: It says a lot about our fan base


Oct 12, 2022, 2:00 PM [ in reply to It says a lot about our fan base ]


when someone gets questioned for loving our basketball program.

To answer your question, I've always loved basketball and since I grew up a Clemson fan, it was only natural to become a big Clemson basketball fan.

It's weird that you think it's odd that someone could care a lot about Clemson basketball.

For us to take the next step and stop being just a football school, we need to embrace basketball as important also. It shouldn't just be something to disregard until football is over, and then only seem to care about it until spring football practice starts.


I agree. That is why Coach B and Clemson should part ways. What did you think of the answers in the 1on1 from Coach?

https://theclemsoninsider.com/2022/10/12/1-on-1-with-brad-brownell-from-acc-tipoff/


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I have said it before and I will say it again...


Oct 12, 2022, 2:16 PM [ in reply to It says a lot about our fan base ]

There is absolutely no justifiable reason why Clemson can't be great in both football and basketball.

Best is the standard.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Well my question was why do you care so much about


Oct 12, 2022, 8:17 PM [ in reply to It says a lot about our fan base ]

Basketball? I didn’t ask why do you care so much about Clemson basketball. I was only saying that during those times it was easy for me to care.

I figured you were gonna give a good story of how you played in college or something.

Reread my post.

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I reread your post, and still think your question is odd.***


Oct 12, 2022, 8:54 PM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

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It’s simple, did you play in school or etc?***


Oct 12, 2022, 9:18 PM



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If you cared about our BB program you're want a successful


Oct 12, 2022, 10:48 PM [ in reply to It says a lot about our fan base ]

coach. You just want to lick brownell's average balls.

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Re: Serious question Judge…


Oct 12, 2022, 4:14 PM [ in reply to Serious question Judge… ]

Speaking for myself, I went to Clemson from 1975-1979. My first 2 years in football were really down years. We were 2-9 my Freshman year and 3-6-2 my Sophomore year. Then, 8-3-1 and 11-1 my last 2 years.

In basketball, we were 18-10, 22-6, 15-12, and 19-10. About all home games were sold out, and I went into a lottery to get tickets to the ACC Tournament.

We were good in baseball and soccer as well. It is a great time when all the major sports are clicking and I like the idea of being MORE than just a football school.

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You can make an argument that team Tree's senior year


Oct 13, 2022, 8:58 PM

was our best ever. Tree, Stan Rome, Colon Abraham, Derrick Johnson, Greg Coles. Good role players in Dave Brown and Jimmy Howell. Chubby Wells off the bench. I think Marvin Dickerson was there as well

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Re: Serious question Judge…


Oct 12, 2022, 8:10 PM [ in reply to Serious question Judge… ]

Because that’s what actual Clemson fans do

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"This roster is one of the most talented Brownell has had."


Oct 12, 2022, 12:55 PM

So, are you willing to go on record now and say that if Brownell doesn't get to the NCAA with this roster, he should be sent packing, finally? If not, what WOULD it take, in your mind, for him to hit the bricks?

It's not a "Bash Brownell" question, it is a serious one. Your devotion to Brad Brownell is beyond legendary status. I just want to know if there is anything, or any combination of things, which would cause you to want to move on from him. I agree that this roster is talented, if not experienced. But, there IS a lot of experience in key players as well. So, what's the lowest acceptable outcome for the season for you?

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I am not at all opposed to us getting a new coach


Oct 12, 2022, 1:57 PM

after this season if we are healthy and fail to win 20 games.

Details matter though. If PJ Hall is injured for a substantial part of the season, Neff isn't likely to fire Brownell if we have a disappointing season. I don't think Brad should be fired in that case.

I also won't be as livid as some of you if we finish around .500 this year, even with a healthy team, and Neff decides to keep Brad. Neff knows that his investments in the program (e.g., spending more on assistants in summer 2022 to bring in Billy Donlon and Sean Dixon) are not expected to yield immediate dramatic results on the court. Those investments take time to pay off, in the form of recruiting as well as player development.

I know that's not what some of you want to hear, but it's the truth. I always chuckle when the angry fans act like Neff committed a crime to dare spend more on basketball, and since he did they expect a Final Four this year. LOL!

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I think the problem most have with your support of BB is


Oct 12, 2022, 3:26 PM

evident in your response. Regardless of expenditures, coaching changes, facility upgrades, whatever, the expected good results are always somewhere off in some nebulous, undefined future. Which never arrives.

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We must start with what are realistic expectations.


Oct 12, 2022, 8:59 PM

Given Clemson’s basketball history, basketball program expenditures, and fan support relative to other ACC teams, we shouldn’t expect to consistently be better than 10th or so in the ACC.

Under Brad, we’ve done better than that, which speaks to his abilities as a coach.

So when I read posts from people who just can’t believe that we don’t make the NCAA Tournament every year, I immediately know that they are mostly clueless about the above factors and/or have unrealistic expectations.

Now, with that said, I absolutely believe that we can be better at basketball. But I don’t view it as a coaching problem. It’s a support problem. Fix that before blaming the coach for everything you don’t like.

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"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


So why was fan support so much better under


Oct 13, 2022, 9:01 PM

Barnes, OP, and Cliff's good years? Why were 13,000+ there against Duke under Foster?

Even in Brad's best year attendance was flat.

Why?

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Re: I am not at all opposed to us getting a new coach


Oct 12, 2022, 4:22 PM [ in reply to I am not at all opposed to us getting a new coach ]

Big Dance or BUST this year. We can't keep playing the "What if" scenario as an excuse to just keep doing more of the same. We didn't do that in baseball. We brought in a real pro and without playing a game he has already significantly improved players, coaches, and culture just by being someone people want to follow.

We need the same kind of hire for basketball if we don't get a turnaround this year.

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But we have a great baseball history at Clemson and are


Oct 12, 2022, 9:05 PM

also paying big bucks for our new baseball coach. We are historically a top 15 program and are treating it as such now.

We’ve never shown a willingness to do that for basketball though. Given our reputation as one of the ACC’s worst basketball programs over the last hundred years, we have a lot of work to do if Clemson fans want a top 15 basketball program.

I personally don’t think most Clemson fans are willing to do what it takes to help us get there. They already complain about what we pay Brownell, which isn’t close to a top salary, and they also fear that supporting basketball too much will hurt football.

It’s this weird dynamic where many of our fans love to complain about basketball not being better, but when it comes to supporting more money or resources for the program they get quiet. They seem to think that we should be able to hire a coach for cheap who will magically turn around the program and make us the consistent winner we’ve never been. It just doesn’t work that way.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: But we have a great baseball history at Clemson and are


Oct 13, 2022, 11:46 AM

Your love affair with Brad Brownell is honestly one of the most bizarre things I've encountered on Tigernet in 20+ years. And, given what I've seen on Tigernet in 20+ years, that's saying something.

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What love affair with Brad Brownell?


Oct 14, 2022, 10:18 AM

I think he's a good coach who has a really tough job. I want to see our basketball program supported better to give him the best chance to succeed.

I feel this way regardless of who our coach is.

Fans who expect us to be a fixture in the top third of the ACC and in the NCAA Tournament every year, and think that is a reasonable expectation given our level of support for the program, just don't get it.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


And that's the issue


Oct 14, 2022, 12:47 PM

I agree, Brad is a good coach. But we need a great one to elevate the program. We had one in Barnes and let him slip away. If we ever find another, that is the time to break the bank and do whatever is needed to retain him. Great results will result in increased revenue and even more spending. Average begets what it deserves

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So one player's health should decide the direction...


Oct 12, 2022, 10:50 PM [ in reply to I am not at all opposed to us getting a new coach ]

Of our basketball program? Thats insane. That doesn't happen in any major collegiate sport. Especially when the BB coach has failed to perform in MANY different years. Its not like this is year 3-4.

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Re: So one player's health should decide the direction...


Oct 12, 2022, 10:58 PM

and for a player who is not projected on any NBA draft boards.

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Most people seem to think...


Oct 12, 2022, 12:57 PM

that after 13 seasons and only three NCAA Tournament appearances, if Clemson doesn't make the NCAA Tournament this year, it's time for the Clemson administration to part ways with Brownell.

I'm curious whether you agree or disagree with that assessment?

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Most people seem to think...


Oct 12, 2022, 2:01 PM

Something has to happen after this year either way. With CBB's contract running out in '24 you cant just sit and let it play out. Have to either fire or extend after this year, if he is allowed to coach out his current contract no recruit is going to come in and play for him since he will be a lame duck.

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I think it's due to the following.


Oct 12, 2022, 2:28 PM [ in reply to Most people seem to think... ]

1. Many people here decided years ago that they don't like Brad and think another coach would do better.
2. They didn't think Radakovich would fire Brad, but hope that Neff will.
3. They reasoned that Neff wouldn't fire Brad right after getting the AD job, but assume that he wants to and will do so after this season with what they consider a valid reason.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I saw your answer above...


Oct 12, 2022, 3:17 PM

where you said, "It's not as simple as Neff requiring Brad to make NCAA Tournament this year to keep his job. Our new assistants were great hires in my opinion, but expecting them to dramatically transform this year's team after only being brought in this summer is ridiculous. However, I think it is reasonable to expect to see improvement. I think we will see that. A lot hinges on PJ Hall as well. If PJ is injured most or all of the year, I don't think Brownell will be fired. I would support that decision. If we have a relatively healthy roster this year and don't make the NCAA Tournament, I think Brad will quite possibly be fired. I would support that decision too."

I think that is a well reasoned and rational answer. Frankly, I also think people may be challenged to express an equally cognizant opposed or contrary view, and this coming from someone who is not a fan of BB, thought he was a mediocre hire, and he should have been fired years ago.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 12:57 PM

Let's go!

Great points! I am very excited about this team. We have a great blend of vets and young players. We didn't have much leadership last year. Hunter Tyson was obviously much more of a vocal leader after he came back from injury. I expect him to lead the team this year.

I'm excited to see how much chase hunter can improve. I don't think we've seen close to his ceiling. He's always one of the most athletic players on the court and he can create and get his own shot. He also led the team in assists as a starter last year. That's impressive.

I am pumped to watch josh beadle. I think the secret is kind of out on him. I've seen him on a couple preseason watch lists. He is incredibly athletic as well, and is very versatile. Dawes only seemed to want to shoot 3's last year.

I can't wait for the season to start. I know brownell will coach his a$$ off, and this team will play hard. This season will hinge on how this team can play without hall. We really need to have an 8-2, or 7-3 (at worst) non conference record. If we can do well in the non conference, and then bolster our roster with a healthy pj hall by the time ACC rolls around, we will be just fine.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:07 PM

Sounds good. Hopefully Brad's old coaches who have come on board this season can help him tap back into that late game winning mojo he had pre-ACC when they worked with him prior. Turning that around for him would go a long way towards getting those W's it takes to make and advance in tournaments and recapture so much fan energy that's been lost over the years.

Go Tigers!

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:10 PM


Sounds good. Hopefully Brad's old coaches who have come on board this season can help him tap back into that late game winning mojo he had pre-ACC when they worked with him prior. Turning that around for him would go a long way towards getting those W's it takes to make and advance in tournaments and recapture so much fan energy that's been lost over the years.

Go Tigers!



I think a big part of our late game collapses last year had to do with depth, and PJ Hall being injured. Nobody talks about this.

I remember wondering why hall looked so winded during the st. Bonnie game. We didn't find out until mid season that hall hadn't practiced all season. He was not in basketball shape. And our only depth was Schef and middlebrooks. Middlebrooks should have been a senior inn high school last year.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:20 PM

Brownell's career record here in one-score games is shockingly bad. It wasn't just last year - it's his MO in a way over twelve years. You actually brought this up last season and some of us did some deep diving on those numbers to get the real story. It's been chronic since arriving in the ACC. That stat helped explain the frustration of slowing tempo down with leads and why it seems we're so often on the wrong side of nailbiters, 'cause we have been, steadily, under Brad. If he can turn around his end game approach and get us on the right side of more of those, more commensurate with his overall record, as you see with other successful coaches in the league, we could see our fortunes turn dramatically for the better.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:32 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]

Coach Brownell today sounds like he is waving the white flag:

https://theclemsoninsider.com/2022/10/12/1-on-1-with-brad-brownell-from-acc-tipoff/


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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 2:07 PM

You're a dumbarse

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Brownell NEVER uses the word Championship in year 12


Oct 12, 2022, 10:54 PM

What an embarrassment.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 2:12 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]

I didn't hear it that way. To me it was pretty standard coach speak with perhaps a little cautious. But there are unknowns with the pj situation.

As to other points, I think some may be pleasantly surprised with Chief and Middlebrooks. Hopefully chief bulked up some during the summer and comes out more dominant... As long as pj is back by Christmas, this team will make the NCAA and perhaps goes to the sweet 16.

The guards we have this year has the ability to be explosive to the hoop. Unlike last year where they had to rely on them going to the basket and toss floaters over the D. Saying, the new group of guards can be more like Collins. And be better at D in defending the 3.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 8:58 PM

I like that talk Clemson gal!!

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 9:45 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]

There is virtually zero circumstance where this team, worse than last year and in an improved conference, makes the tournament. If PJ doesn’t come back until December the question is if we can finish the season above .500.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 13, 2022, 4:37 PM

I wouldn't be so certain. Bradley is at his best when his job is legitimately on the line. We've got Rock the John returning, and maybe we'll even see him interact with students and fans to help generate some enthusiasm during the season for a change. With his old coaching cronies back in the fold, perhaps they can help rekindle some of his missing passion and mojo.

Nobody puts Bradley in a corner, at least that's been his MO during his tenure here.

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You and JK have very similar excuses all the time.***


Oct 12, 2022, 10:52 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]



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You realize this year he'll have not practiced


Oct 13, 2022, 9:05 PM [ in reply to Re: Basketball season is here. ]

or played since March?

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:10 PM

Thanks for the analysis.

I really hope PJ can return healthy. If so, I believe this team can do good things.

Go Tigers.

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8-12, 10th in acc


Oct 12, 2022, 1:13 PM

Again. Brad keeps his job cuz . . . You can’t stop brad, you can only hope to retain him

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Thanks, That made me chuckle***


Oct 12, 2022, 1:32 PM



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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:20 PM

So the whole board is supposed to be convinced you know anything about basketball?

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Hope springs eternal. Guess there’s little harm in that.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:27 PM

Seems optimism is based on unproven upside performance of several players. I hope it happens.

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Summary


Oct 12, 2022, 1:35 PM

Blah blah blah, Brownell needs more support, yadda yadda yadda, good defense, harumph harumph harumph, NIT.

Just giving you a hard time, thanks for the thoughtful analysis.

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it’s football season***


Oct 12, 2022, 1:37 PM



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I for one am glad you are stopping. You are one of the most ignorant posters ever. You obviously think very highly of your own opinion, unlike the rest of us - RockHillTiger


Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 1:43 PM

Cut and paste every year and swap in the new player names.

TLDR version: no matter what actually happens it's just enough that Brownell must be retained.

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I'm with you JK. Just re-upped my season tix today.


Oct 12, 2022, 2:04 PM

I don't have a basketball mind, but I like to see them play. Looking forward to the season.

If it doesn't pan out, then changes are coming. If it does, I am ready to see a tournament game wherever they may play!

Go Tigers!

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Re: I'm with you JK. Just re-upped my season tix today.


Oct 12, 2022, 2:35 PM

We are Clemson. Middle of the pack, NIT, mediocrity, average is unacceptable. The only reason BB is still here is our AD did not want to fire two coaches in the same year. If he doesn’t make the Dance and win at least one game he is gone.

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Here’s the disconnect I don’t understand.


Oct 12, 2022, 4:34 PM

We are historically the worst basketball program in the ACC. We spend less than most ACC teams each year on men’s basketball.

Why exactly do you think that warrants expecting us to finish above average in the conference?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Here’s the disconnect I don’t understand.


Oct 12, 2022, 5:09 PM

Under the Purnell, Foster, Ellis, and Barnes days, we managed to field some respectable teams that produced some decent results. I kind of doubt they had much more investment in their programs than we do now. We've upgraded the facilities and paid to get the assistants BB supposedly wanted. I just don't know how much longer he deserves. Isn't 13 years enough to figure it out? Somehow those other names I mentioned managed to put some numbers on the board and make it work. It didn't always end well but was certainly seemed a little more consistent than what we've seen lately.

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Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent.


Oct 12, 2022, 5:12 PM

Much like Brownell’s tenure.

Yet for some reason, our fans make Brad out to be a horrible coach and think we should be a lot better.

We just got the assistant Brownell wanted. You expect that to result in the best year we’ve ever had THIS year?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent.


Oct 12, 2022, 5:38 PM

worst coach in acc

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I for one am glad you are stopping. You are one of the most ignorant posters ever. You obviously think very highly of your own opinion, unlike the rest of us - RockHillTiger


Re: Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent.


Oct 12, 2022, 5:50 PM [ in reply to Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent. ]

Interesting choice in the word "consistent"...

Brad has yet to make B2B NCAAT appearances despite seeing increased basketball spend/upgrades during his tenure…

Both Barnes and Purnell went to 3 straight. Heck even Cliff Ellis went B2B and 3 out of 4.

Barnes did it in 4 seasons, OP in 7, and here we are headed into year 13 with Brad.

Clemson winning %'s and NCAAT appearances below:

Brad Brownell(2011-present) - 56.8% (3 NCAAT)
Oliver Purnell(2004-2010) - 61.1% (3 NCAAT in a row)
Larry Shyatt(1999-2003) - 45.5% (0 NCAAT)
Rick Barnes(1995-1998) - 60.7% (3 NCAAT in a row)
Cliff Ellis(1984-1994) - 58.1% (3 NCAAT in 4 years)

Seems to me the only coach less consistent than Brownell on this list is Larry Shyatt. All other coaches found sustained success in a MUCH shorter timeline.

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent.


Oct 12, 2022, 6:32 PM

He’s been the coach for 1/4 of my lifetime. If you’re under 50 then same or a higher percentage goes for you. It is readily apparent that he long ago reached his ceiling. One that isn’t very impressive and unlikely to be repeated. He is the worst Clemson coach other that Larry Shyatt in the 64 team tournament era and controlled for strength of schedule he isn’t much better than Shyatt. I’ve done the stats exhaustively in the past and that’s when, prior to outright ignoring me, JK would simply change the subject or start a new thread saying the same crap. Then his sock puppets jump in complaining about RPI, NET, SOS, Warren Nolan, Sagarin (basically all of them since they all say Brownell is a bad coach) not being a good metric but offer no reasonable defense other than “derp, we’re the worst ACC team (not true post expansion) and we spend the least (also not true).” The entire defense of this coach is built on lies.

If you are actually a fan of basketball this should be maddening. I know certain posters (deroberts for example) simply don’t think we have any place criticizing coaches. I disagree but at least he is consistent. JK and his groupies can’t even keep their narratives straight anymore. In this very thread JK says this is one of Brownell’s most talented teams then says he expects them to finish 10th. That on the edge of the bottom quartile. That’s lower than his average. Yet he also qualifies that an even worse finish doesn’t mean he should be fired. Then he qualifies it that injuries should buy Brownell more time. Then in another post he says even without injuries and a sub 10th place finish he shouldn’t be fired. He’s calling every possible shot on the table then will have one of his scocks bring up the right one later. Just like he did with his DJU post in the last few days.

All this coupled with the constant trash talking and bashing our football program (no, it isn’t constructive criticism) equals someone who is not a Clemson fan. I don’t know if he got expelled, fired, beat up by a fraternity, lost his wife to someone in the admin, got an ackward hug from the Tiger mascot or what. I would love to understand his psychosis. But he is not a Clemson fan.

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Re: Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:33 PM

Who in blazes elected you Lord Mayor of TNET, going on about who is and is not a fan?

For all you know Judge Keller could be Jeff Davis.

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Re: Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:49 PM

I'm 100% positive Judge Keller is not Jeff Davis and I'm pretty sure you're a low pulse scock.

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He's a Texas fan, what do you expect...***


Oct 13, 2022, 10:35 AM



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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Jeff Davis isn't a loser. And I happen to know he doesn't..


Oct 12, 2022, 11:03 PM [ in reply to Re: Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent. ]

believe in Brad Brownell. Next question dumb@ss.

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It's all smoke, mirrors, and excuses with JK and his lackeys***


Oct 13, 2022, 10:38 AM [ in reply to Re: Correct, we had some good years but we weren’t consistent. ]

at this point we shouldn't expect anything other than his troll behavior.

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Here’s the disconnect I don’t understand.


Oct 12, 2022, 7:14 PM [ in reply to Here’s the disconnect I don’t understand. ]

Dabo built a football program with much less than the football program gets now. A program earns its money by winning. You don’t get a raise with your poor performance do you. That’s not the way the world works. Do you think Duke and UNC just had money thrown at them before they were a regular top 10 program. You don’t get money for nothing. Quit your crying and earn it. Win and money will flow into the program. BB has had plenty of time. He is an average coach and will always be average.

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Dabo was barely above .500 early in his Clemson tenure.


Oct 12, 2022, 9:10 PM

It wasn’t until he was given funds to hire better coordinators that we started winning. And that was despite many advantages our basketball program doesn’t have.

Brad just got funds for the upgraded “coordinator” this summer. Now give it a chance to work.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Dabo was barely above .500 early in his Clemson tenure.


Oct 12, 2022, 9:30 PM

He won the division in his first full year - something not done at Clemson since the advent of divisions. You’re lying as usual.

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Dabo's interim year was a 57.14% winning percentage


Oct 13, 2022, 1:00 PM [ in reply to Dabo was barely above .500 early in his Clemson tenure. ]

Brad's first year (2010), he posted a 64.71% winning percentage.

Dabo's cumulative winning percentage for number of years on the job has been higher than Brad's every single year since. Not only that, Dabo's winning percentage has climbed every year except 2021 when it fell of 0.27%. As of today, his cumulative percentage is 81.25%

Brad's has meandered around 55% his entire stay here.

The numbers above are hard facts. I'm just wondering, what year are you pinpointing for early in his career because his interim year is the only one that I can see.

2012 was the year that we opened the pocketbook for assistants. Count the interim season and call it year 5. His cumulative winning percentage after 2012 was 65.57%. 2014 was Brad's 5th year here. His cumulative percentage after that season was 55.21%

Just responding to your claim

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This isn't a football thread and I don't care to get into


Oct 14, 2022, 1:05 PM

an in-depth football discussion here.

But to answer your question, from 2008-2010 Dabo was 19-15 (.559). That's worse than his interim year percentage of .571.

The turning point for Dabo was 2011, when Chad Morris was brought in. He lit a fire under the team. We went from being a soft team to more hard-nosed, with a real identity. The results starting in 2011 speak for themselves, when we won the ACC and made our first BCS bowl.

In 2012, we moved on from Steele (who was a highly thought of DC in his own right) and hired Venables. That obviously resulted in even more success for us.

The notion that Dabo bootstrapped it at Clemson early on to prove himself before getting a notable investment by the administration is a huge myth.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: This isn't a football thread and I don't care to get into


Oct 14, 2022, 6:07 PM

Literally the worst possible interpretation of what has happened under Dabo possible. Starting to wonder if you even watch Clemson sports or just troll the website. The 2010 team, despite its final record, was gritty AF. The defense finished Top 20 despite spending most of the season on the field. We lost to eventual national champ Auburn in overtime at Auburn. The only overtime game in their undefeated season. And without a cheap shot by Nick Fairley breaking Kyle Parker’s ribs in that game the season would have gone completely differently. But by all means let’s pretend Chad Morris is the real architect of our success.

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Re: Here’s the disconnect I don’t understand.


Oct 12, 2022, 8:57 PM [ in reply to Here’s the disconnect I don’t understand. ]

We aren’t even close to the worst team historically in the current ACC. We’ve spent more weeks ranked than BC, Miami, and Virginia Tech. Why do you deliberately lie and disparage Clemson to aggrandize a coach.

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FSU, Miami and VT have passed us under Brownell.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:58 PM [ in reply to Here’s the disconnect I don’t understand. ]

Next question.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 2:34 PM

Thanks for the analysis. I’m a pushover for optimism, every single year I go into basketball season with some degree of hope.

Often end up like a battered wife going back to her abusive husband, but I can’t quit Clemson basketball or Clemson in general. Never will.

Go Tigers!

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 3:42 PM

Odds are that it will be the same with high expectation and average results.

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THE Tiger insider interview


Oct 12, 2022, 3:49 PM

I saw your interview with the competition earlier. Is PJ able to run now?

How much longer until he can get in basketball shape?

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We keep getting better & better everyday, in every way!
“The only disability is a bad Attitude” Dabo Swinney!!
Let’s Go Tigers!


PJ is doing some light running but not on the court for practice.


Oct 12, 2022, 4:40 PM

He’s acting like an assistant coach right now from the sidelines.

I predict he will be back sometime in December. He won’t be rushed back.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Perfect excuse for Brad. Not!


Oct 12, 2022, 11:04 PM

Brad should have had a backup plan but he barely has a plan. No surprise there.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 6:04 PM

Hope this season goes well. Go Tigers!

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 7:15 PM

You’re a idiot.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 7:44 PM

Stopped reading after the first paragraph. Let's talk football instead.
Go Tigers!!! Beat FSU!!!

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"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 9:46 PM

Tigers are more likely to hang 50 on FSU than to make the postseason in basketball.

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Haven’t seen much reason


Oct 12, 2022, 8:13 PM

To get excited for Clemson basketball lately.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 9:55 PM

Thanks for your insight and analysis on our BB team. I am optimistic for a 20 win season and finishing .500 or above in the conference would be great, but quite honestly that should be our expectations every year. Sometimes or most of the time you have to win first to get the fans support and that is not easy. I have always loved Clemson basketball and probably do now even with our lack of tournament appearances because unlike football I can still afford to go to a couple of games a year. I know it is all about supply and demand and winning and losing but I simply find it hard to justify spending a ton of money on Football games. I love Clemson football and still go to games when I can get a couple of decent tickets for 100 bucks or so. Basketball I usually get two tickets for 50 bucks several times a year. Go Tigers beat FSU.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:24 PM

I hope you’re right. On the fence but bought season tickets for 25 consecutive years! ? Clemson basketball is a character builders, lots of frustration with sprinkles of victory.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:44 PM

Dont know squat about basketball but for my money a trip to Littlejohn is as much or more fun than a trip to DV.

Less hassles, doesnt eat up half a weekend and youre right in the thick of it.

If the ACC is to basketball what the SEC is to football and Clemson's like a Mississippi State, as long as the fellas play hard and show up, Im on board with Brownell.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 10:47 PM

Well the ACC might be the 6th or 7th best conference in basketball this year so no, it's not what the SEC is to football.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 11:09 PM

Who cares basketball isn't a sport. More football please.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 11:33 PM

Hope our Tigers have a great season and appreciate all that Brownell has tried to do for our team. I do miss all those games in the field house where our football team helped to work over the opponents if they happened to accidentally land on one of the bottom rows of the stands.
Go tigers!

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 12, 2022, 11:39 PM

two points.

Brad does not like to play Freshman too much. Lost two of his best recruits two years ago because he did not play them. One starts at Marquette now.

Heard this is one of the most talented teams before.

same ole story.

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 13, 2022, 12:53 PM

I tend to agree regarding his use of freshmen, but this year he is going to be forced to play them. He doesn't have any choice.

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Our roster consists of


Oct 14, 2022, 8:28 AM

Hall-Brad's best recruit and a legit rising star if healthy

Chase Hunter and Tyson-two guys who have been role players for the most part who apparently many are expecting to far exceed that this year

Galloway and Hemenway-two veteran role players only

Sheifflin and Middlebrooks-two Sophs who have played very little

One redshirt freshman and four true freshmen who have never played a college game and were all consensus three star recruits-in other words, they'll have some moments, but by and large will struggle with the adjustment to college ball like most freshmen do

I ask of all, in what universe is that considered an NCAA roster for Clemson

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It's sad how negative you've become about basketball


Oct 14, 2022, 10:39 AM

at Clemson.

First of all, PJ Hall is not a "rising star." He is already a star. He's an All-ACC caliber player who averaged 15 points per game last year on a bad foot while not practicing most of the season. He just needs to get (and stay) healthy.

Second, Hunter Tyson was a double figure scorer who has started almost all of the games he's played in over the last two years. He is not merely a "role player."

If you want to call Chase Hunter a role player that's fine, but he certainly showed flashes last year that he can help carry the team. Rising star would be an appropriate description for him.

If PJ averages 15-18 points per game, and Hunter and Chase can be in the 10-14 points per game range, that gives us three really good contributors we can rely on. Beadle has a ton of promise and I think he will surprise people. Throw in some good role players such as Hemenway, Galloway, and Schieffelin, and we have a nice roster that can compete.

The fear mongering about us having to rely a lot on young players this year is overblown. Dillon Hunter stands to get significant minutes as a true freshman, but only because he's that good and not because we are being forced to rely on him for big minutes. If we need to roll with a backcourt of Chase Hunter, Josh Beadle, and Brevin Galloway for the lion's share of the minutes, we certainly can.

Of the other freshmen, RJ Godfrey appears the most ready physically. He's still learning though. I expect him to get decent minutes, but he isn't going to be a player we rely heavily on. The two Chaunceys (Wiggins and Gibson) aren't going to get big minutes.

Let's at least give this team a chance to play a few games before declaring that it's going to be an awful season. Goodness.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


“Let’s at least give this team a chance to play a few games”


Oct 14, 2022, 11:20 AM

unless football.

https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/yet-amazingly-the-majority-here-think-that-our-offense-will-be-much-better-this-year-30786085


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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Yes, expecting our offense to be the same or slightly better


Oct 14, 2022, 1:08 PM

was reasonable at the time.

Expecting our basketball players to be slightly better is also reasonable.

If I had advocated for our football team being worse, as some here seem to suggest for basketball, I would've been vilified.

Because football.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


It's reasonable for you to expect slightly better...


Oct 14, 2022, 1:12 PM

but not reasonable for someone else to expect slightly worse?

Reasonable for you to make a football prediction in June.
Unreasonable for someone else to make a basketball prediction in October.

Understood.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Yes, expecting our offense to be the same or slightly better


Oct 14, 2022, 3:45 PM [ in reply to Yes, expecting our offense to be the same or slightly better ]

Wait, didn’t you boast that you predicted DJ U would be dramatically improved. Wouldn’t that mean the offense would be more than slightly better? I’m stunned to find such a striking inconsistency from an earnest poster such as yourself.

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Anything contrary to your narrative is negative


Oct 14, 2022, 1:15 PM [ in reply to It's sad how negative you've become about basketball ]

so I'll take that as a compliment, because you spew more dung on here than anyone.

Tyson scored in double digits last year, on a MEDIOCRE team. On a good team he's a 6th-7th man. Let's look at our good teams: 1980 PF Larry Nance. 1986 PF Jerry Pryor. 1988-89 PF Dale Davis. 1996-98 PF Harold Jamison. 2007-08 PF James Mays. 2009 PF Raymond Sykes. 2010 PF Jerai Grant. 2018 PF Grantham/Simms.

Maybe, maybe, he starts over Sykes, in another system, but not in OP's.

Chase Hunter had a nice stretch last year, but a nice stretch does not equal a rising star. It says he can get hot for a few games.

Dillon Hunter will play because we have ZERO proven PG's. Again, is he starting over Grayson Marshall, Cash, Boogie, Stitt or Mitchell? You know, the PG's on our good teams? He's not starting over Dawes if he were still here.

Godfrey isn't starting over Collins if he were still here.

PJ is hurt. There is no timetable for his return. And the pieces around him are either the same as last year, or have zero experience. With Dillon Hunter and Godfrey likely starters, as we have no one else at PG and SF, that's two freshmen getting significant minutes. When was the last good team where 2 freshmen started for us?

Here's a hint, we've never had one, unless you want to count 1974 with Wise and Rome. Your negativity is my realism

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Re: Anything contrary to your narrative is negative


Oct 14, 2022, 3:58 PM

Would you rate Barnes’ second season as our best team with multiple freshman starting? Does anyone think this lineup is nearly as deep, diverse, or talented as that team?

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Maybe 1974 with Wise and Rome


Oct 14, 2022, 6:15 PM

but that team started 3 freshmen, Boogie and Wideman every game, Jurkunas most games, with Jamieson when he didn't. Tony Christie also played starter minutes.

That class had three 4 stars in Jurkunas, Jamieson and Christie. A solid three in Wideman, and an extraordinarily underrated 3 in Boogie. Ladarian Jones was a 3 star as well. And Barnes got them in his second year, after taking over what was declared the worst team in ACC history the prior year, losing Devin Gray to grades that year, playing defense first basketball as only Buck and Merle Code were real threats offensively. Dang, Andy Kelly started at PF! Yet Barnes landed that class.

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Yes


Oct 13, 2022, 8:57 AM

you asked

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Re: Basketball season is here.


Oct 13, 2022, 10:27 AM

Dawes being gone will not be the worst thing in the world, I don't think I've ever seen a player fall in love with the 3 ball quite like him. To his credit, it was a big help in some games when he got hot, but it hurt more often than not. He all but quit looking for driving opportunities and looked almost exclusively for that long arcing 3 point shot. Not sure who will replace him, but I don't think it will be difficult.

The same kind of goes for Nick Honor, I have a soft spot for the tough nosed gritty players, and he certainly fit that bill, but his size hurt us in ACC play. I think that is why his utilization dropped so much towards the end of the year last year.

So, seeing as the new crop of guards have good size, this year could be interesting... got to get off to a good start, the first 5 games are kind of gimme games with the exception of South Carolina, I have no idea what state their program is in at the moment. That could be a pivotal game for the season, only two games in.

I also like our OOC schedule this year, lots of opportunities for good wins that could help come selection day if we get that far. Iowa, TCU, Penn State, Loyola Chicago, and Richmond would all be solid wins.

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Without Hall, we have no Gimme games


Oct 13, 2022, 9:18 PM

We will struggle to score, rebound and defend. Sadly, I can see us under .500 until he is back full tilt. Until he is back, we'll live or die by the 3 as we have no post presence

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Re: Without Hall, we have no Gimme games


Oct 14, 2022, 3:01 PM

Just my opinion, but we lived or died by the three last year, with or without Hall. I think that is kind of what the college game (and NBA game) is becoming anyway. Gotta shoot the three ball until there is a rule change of some type.

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With Hall we can play inside out as you have to


Oct 14, 2022, 3:37 PM

account for him down low. He's a gifted scorer. It really is to bad he's hurt, as he was poised for another major leap forward. With the injury we have no idea when he's back, and then when he'll be in basketball shape. That could be half the season.

Without Hall we have Middlebrooks, basically just a space eater at this stage. All of our scoring will have to initiate from the perimeter.

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“Outperform preseason expectations”. Lolololololol


Oct 14, 2022, 7:33 AM

Lololololololol

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Why is that funny to you?


Oct 14, 2022, 10:44 AM

Failing to meet preseason expectations is a hard thing to deal with, as we learned last year during football season.

The fact that Brad's teams routinely do better than predicted is a testament to our coaches and players.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


This is a basketball thread. Why are you


Oct 14, 2022, 10:46 AM

bringing up football?

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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Don't overlook that last sentence.


Oct 14, 2022, 10:49 AM

Sweet baby chick peas! That is some serious mental gymnastics right there.

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Why do dogs always race to the door when the doorbell rings? It's almost never for them.


Re: Don't overlook that last sentence.


Oct 14, 2022, 11:06 AM

It doesn’t even make sense. He doesn’t complete the thought. Testament to “our coaches and players” what? I would suggest that their ability to finish above expectations is a testament to just how low those expectations are always set. Conversely, Dabo failing to meet expectations in a 10 win season is a testament to the extraordinary level of success we have been accustomed to.

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It's a testament to Brad having led our program into such


Oct 14, 2022, 11:08 AM [ in reply to Why is that funny to you? ]

national obscurity and afterthought that beat sports writers who put these pre-season conference polls together spend very little time getting to know this team each season. Just pencil us in somewhere south of the middle and move on. No biggie.

The same logic applies when we've had a decent season the year prior and get a pre-season ranking boost that we invariably fall short of the following year. Not as many of those decent seasons though to outweigh the 'finished higher' opportunities Brad normally musters up.

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Bringing up football in a basketball thread?


Oct 14, 2022, 11:35 AM [ in reply to Why is that funny to you? ]

Take your pick from JK responses in this thread.

https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/i-dont-have-anything-against-you-judge-31297023


"Bringing up basketball in a football thread discredits you and makes you look incapable of focusing on the discussion at hand."

"Inserting digs and criticisms of our basketball program into a football thread, simply as a way to try to somehow get back at me for posting a football opinion they don't like, is immature and illogical."

"Again, posting about basketball in a football thread to try to distract from a topic that makes you uncomfortable is weak."

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


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