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Rock Defender [53]
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Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 9:47 AM
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Losing midweek games in the manner we did last night is unacceptable for Clemson baseball. Losing series to Notre Dame at home in March is unacceptable. Failing to advance to a Super Regional in over a decade is unacceptable.
While I am repeatedly frustrated by the lack of improving fundamentals, specifically on the basepaths, questionable lineup decisions, and the lack of any real talent upgrade from the end of the JL era, I think the questions that need to be asked is the program stuck in mediocrity because of Monte Lee or is there a larger issue? Is Clemson making the kinds of investments in its baseball program that are necessary to compete with top-tier ACC and SEC programs?
Doug Kingsmore is not in great shape. The main seating area on tv is an eye soar compared to the new stadiums built at places such as Florida, Miss. State, LSU, Scar, etc. Aside from the player's building, which was beyond needed to sustain even a decent level of recruiting let alone attract elite talent, DRad hasn't shown the same commitment to baseball that he has shown to football, basketball, and franky, even soccer. Where are the future facility upgrades to DKS? Why aren't we scheduling more national out-of-conference matchups that require travel but nonetheless increase exposure for the program? Why are we eliminating financial programs that make Clemson baseball more attractive for out-of-state recruits?
It seems like we are content with asking our coaches to do more with less. And that is not an acceptable standard for Clemson baseball.
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110%er [5020]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 9:56 AM
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It’s talent.
It’s college baseball man..what do you honestly expect? Pitching is awful and hitting has been sh*t ever since they changed the bats...Coach’s are handcuffed by MLB in regards to recruiting because they get whoever they want and college is left with the scraps.
Our window has come and gone under Lee. The window was when we had Okey, Eli White, Weston Wilson, Reed Rolman, Chase Pinder, & Logan Davidson all on the same team.
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110%er [5627]
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Pitching is awful? Huh? Yesterday was only bad
Mar 10, 2021, 10:02 AM
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Start we've had. Gave up 3 runs Sat and Sun and lost! Pitching is not the problem. Hitting with RISP is the problem!
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Walk-On [114]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 9:59 AM
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Baseball will never be football in South Carolina until the state government helps with the out of state tuition for walk on’s. The scholarship count makes it hard to build a program like football has. A player can go full ride at a smaller school and have to pay his own way with us. I like Coach Lees last two recruiting classes and notice he is going heavy in state. Maybe we can count some male athletes as transgender females to free up some more scholarships under title nine now that we have the equality act.
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110%er [7972]
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Re: Baseball Investment
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Mar 10, 2021, 10:06 AM
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It is interesting the OP questions DRad's commitment. So DRad only has the money generated by programs, media/tv and fans. Last time I checked all of that money is committed/spent so where would the extra spending be generated? Options would include go up (again) on ticket prices or if fans like yourself make a donation or cut the budget for other sports. For me, $100 tickets to football games, being forced to buy live tv for $60 per month just to watch on TV, $50 shirts because it has the logo and thousands just to be able to buy season tickets is too much for me. You see, I also like to drive a nice car, save for retirement and enjoy other aspects of life so I am not willing to give more money for what amounts to a hobby.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 10:09 AM
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Well there was money to build a brand new softball stadium but not upgrade a historic, traditional baseball program?
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All-In [48268]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 2:00 PM
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Hey jmr2, don't be so scarce. Post more often. We need honest baseball discussion. Tia
On a side note, I went to Clemson yrs ago with a girl in computer science that had the id jmr2.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 2:44 PM
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Appreciate the kind feedback.
Would have been a nice icebreaker for me back in the day.
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All-In [44032]
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Great point, that is part of the reason why I
Mar 10, 2021, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Baseball Investment ] |
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questioned starting a softball program. Of course, I have been accused of not supporting women's sports (which is stupid, because I recommended starting women's lacrosse instead).
Again, I'm not knocking softball. It's a great sport - much more entertaining than baseball in my opinion. It's obviously popular in the southeast. I'm sure Clemson will build a good softball program. But the cost to build a new stadium diverted funds from other programs, and baseball was likely impacted some.
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Orange Blooded [2939]
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Don’t put the baseball team failure on softball team’s shoulders
Mar 10, 2021, 2:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Baseball Investment ] |
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It isn’t their fault and it’s very shortsighted to think that way. Thank goodness for softball so we can watch enthusiastic players who look like they’re enjoying being out there
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All-In [27306]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 10:10 AM
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I gotta admit if I was a CU baseball player I’d be extremely jealous and disheartened not being able to use the facilities in the football ops center. The equipment in there is top notch. Probably make the baseball teams gym look like planet fitness
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Asst Coach [717]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 10:22 AM
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What upgrades to dks would ya like...I did notice that in the terrace level beside press box is rusty and cob webs. Even the paw on the batting cages looks ok from infield but if on it In of seats in right it’s so faded. Orange seats look so faded too.
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110%er [6442]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Baseball Investment ] |
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They have practiced in the indoor practice facility multiple times when the weather's been bad. The football facilities, should be for the football players and staff, and them alone. They’ve earned it. You start allowing the baseball players to use it, then you open the Pandora’s Box of having to allow the softball team, the basketball teams, etc. Maybe if baseball could get to a Super Regional, they could have nicer stuff too.
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All-In [27371]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Baseball Investment ] |
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Baseball games can be won with good,smart coaching. Good coaches learn quickly what kind of talent they have available to work with and focus on improving each player. When I watch the Tigers I see players take the field who are told to play as well as they can. I have never seen a player who has made any changes in his game. Giving a guy a bat and saying “go get us a hit” is not the way this game is played..... at any level. Every coach has his own way of playing the game. There is no perfect way. Some like to play long ball. That’s great IF you have the talent available to do that. Some prefer to play small ball. That is great IF you have that kind of talent. Regardless, you can win but you must have your guys prepared to play the game. Hoping that your guy gets a hit in a key situation is not smart baseball. Hoping for good play will not win you many games and that’s what I’m seeing in this Tiger team. Did you watch how the Notre Dame coach played the game? He put pressure on the Tiger team during the entire game. Base running was very good. The pitchers threw, not just strikes, but good strikes in key situations. His player positioning was excellent. Do you remember the key at bat for the Tigers when the hitter hit a hard grounder that it is a hit 99 percent of the time but he had the third baseman playing 25 feet out of position and got a very key out? That is winning baseball. Advancing runners is one of the most vital parts of playing offensive baseball. Clemson does not do this. Watch closely the next game and see if you think the Tigers have been put in a position to win.
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110%er [6442]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 10:21 AM
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DKS could stand some improvements, but it just got a major overhaul a few years ago. The facilities have nothing to do with how those players are performing on the field. There has been just as much investment into baseball as there has been for basketball. Monte Lee had a lot more to help him progress than Brownell had. For our schedule, we do play in the ACC with some pretty competitive opponents, and also the coots, CofC, Coastal Carolina. Everybody wants to bemoan the lack of scholarships and the MLB. Well, pretty much every school has to deal with that now. But if baseball is a priority for the school, coaches, fans, you find ways. If Vandy wants a player, money becomes available to help that kid with his “books”. Their boosters have deep pockets and they want a successful program. The beauty of baseball is that small schools can do big things. Money, facilities don’t mean jack if you have the right coach, and the players who have heart, skill, and fundamentals. Somehow Coastal Carolina was able to make it happen.
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CU Medallion [64575]
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Scar? Have you actually seen their baseball facility?
Mar 10, 2021, 10:29 AM
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It's only about 10 years old but it's already a dump largely because of lousy construction means and methods. It's also built in an industrial disaster area adjacent to the nasty-a$$ and smelly Congaree River.
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110%er [6442]
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Re: Scar? Have you actually seen their baseball facility?
Mar 10, 2021, 10:32 AM
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The coot fans are able to buy beer and get drunk at the games now, so they don’t care that it’s a dump.
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All-In [27371]
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Have you actually seen their baseball facility?
Mar 10, 2021, 10:52 AM
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The reason Clemson is not a good team has absolutely nothing to do with Doug Kingsmore Stadium. NOTHING.
It has nothing to do with the color of the uniforms or the brand of bats they use. NOTHING.
It isnt recruiting either. USCS doesn’t have better players than Clemson.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Have you actually seen their baseball facility?
Mar 10, 2021, 11:44 AM
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USC Upstate is 10-1 and just beat us by 10 runs at home so yeah, they quite clearly have better players.
Our baseball recruiting right now is on the same level as our basketball program when it historically should be closer to football. It's easy to blame the coach but if you don't invest in the entire program then you'll just turn into Tennessee football where you're constantly churning through coaches and aren't honest about the fact that you aren't elite anymore.
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CU Medallion [64575]
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Clemson isn't an elite baseball program anymore...
Mar 10, 2021, 12:10 PM
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and hasn't been for quite awhile now.
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Asst Coach [717]
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Re: Clemson isn't an elite baseball program anymore...
Mar 10, 2021, 12:50 PM
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What upgrades for dks
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CU Medallion [64575]
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DKS is still one of the top 20 facilities in college baseball***
Mar 10, 2021, 1:38 PM
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null
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All-In [44032]
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Why do you believe Clemson baseball should be
Mar 10, 2021, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Have you actually seen their baseball facility? ] |
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recruiting at an elite, top-5 level like the football program does?!?
I'm sorry, but we aren't a top 25 baseball program right now. We haven't made the College World Series in over a decade.
Recruits today don't view Clemson as a baseball power. What Wilhem did here, or even what Leggett did during the first half of his tenure, mean nothing to recruits today. That's ancient history to them.
Let's work on winning a regional for the first time in over a decade before we complain about not having top 5 recruiting classes, okay?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Why do you believe Clemson baseball should be
Mar 10, 2021, 2:42 PM
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recruiting at an elite, top-5 level like the football program does?!?
I'm sorry, but we aren't a top 25 baseball program right now. We haven't made the College World Series in over a decade.
Recruits today don't view Clemson as a baseball power. What Wilhem did here, or even what Leggett did during the first half of his tenure, mean nothing to recruits today. That's ancient history to them.
Let's work on winning a regional for the first time in over a decade before we complain about not having top 5 recruiting classes, okay?
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All-TigerNet [14467]
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CU Medallion [51531]
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But we're in the middle of a pandemic so it's ok.***
Mar 10, 2021, 1:29 PM
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110%er [9687]
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Not only a pandemic...but a
1
Mar 10, 2021, 2:04 PM
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GLOBAL pandemic.
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All-In [44032]
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No one has said that the pandemic excuses poor play.
Mar 10, 2021, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to But we're in the middle of a pandemic so it's ok.*** ] |
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But you're kidding if you think DRad is going to fire Monte in the middle of a season, especially when COVID is still going on.
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All-In [48268]
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Re: Baseball Investment
Mar 10, 2021, 1:54 PM
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Bump for everybody. This is what I've been asking for. A good discussion on the state of Clemson baseball.
I think there's merit in all comments. I would take issue that Clemson hasn't been elite for quite a while. Decade ago we were in cws finals. Montes been here 6 years.
I like scheduling high profile ooc series. That's one thing that was discussed when coots went through their problems... And now they have a series with Texas this weekend.
I also like the points made concerning coastal and uscs on having better players and lesser facilities. Actually, my PA that I see has a kid going downstate. He wanted to go to Clemson but the money wasn't there... So, I have first hand knowledge of a case in point. Who knows how good the kid is but he played against urban and the kid from river bluff we have coming next year... And he smoked em a few times. Just saying.
We can't sustain a BB program on instate talent alone. Just like we couldn't for years in FB. Yeah, 2020 bad on all budgets but we must find a way to make the investments in baseball, and all sports.
I agree with Forrester too. You can coach to W's. But kids also (just like FB) look at what a coach has done. Dabo can clearly boast that he's taken 3* & < and put them in 1st and 2nd round money... Has Monte done that? Not really. I can't say whether or not a coach needs to go. That's up to the BOT and AD. I do know, we haven't been competitive the last 4 yrs.
Something has to change. Thanks for the input!!!!
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