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Replies: 31
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All-In [43979]
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Please stop posting that "Dabo needs to show Brownell how to recruit."
Dec 19, 2015, 8:04 AM
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The two jobs are very, very different.
Football:
Is a winning program with a lot of success in its history
Has won multiple conference championships and bowl games
Has won a national championship
Has one of the largest and nicest stadiums in the country
Has had significant investment in its facilities over the past 10 years
Is located in a talent rich state
Has had consistent and significant support from the administration for the last 10+ years
Has unrivaled and enthusiastic support from fans
Basketball:
Has a lousy history
Has never won an ACC Tournament
Has only advanced to the Elite Eight once
Has a crappy arena which is only now being improved
Is located in a very talent poor state
Has never had consistent support from the administration
Has inconsistent and generally poor fan support
Brad Brownell isn't the rah-rah guy Dabo is, but he isn't a bland, boring guy either. I wonder if some of you criticizing him have really paid attention to him as he coaches and listened to his interviews. He is a knowledgeable guy who frequently shows emotion and can be very funny too. He also has no problem telling it like it is. I don't know why some of you think he needs help from Dabo when it comes to his personality. It's different, but not worse.
Given the circumstances, I think Brownell is recruiting fine at Clemson. He finally has the facilities he needs to level the playing field somewhat. Now give him consistent attendance from fans who are loud and who care, and strong administrative support and we will see an improved team.
Continuing to give football a feast while still expecting basketball to thrive on what falls to the floor will not result in success for our basketball program.
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All-In [36448]
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Is that you brownell?"***
Dec 19, 2015, 8:10 AM
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All-In [43979]
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No, I just get tired of people here when it comes to basketball.
Dec 19, 2015, 8:20 AM
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We can't continue to not show up to basketball games consistently, and be unwilling to invest heavily in basketball, yet whine about not being a better team. I am incredibly frustrated by our team's performance, but I don't think it is entirely fair to blame Brownell when he is in a crappy situation.
I'm willing to go "all in" when it comes to basketball. I want to see us be really successful. My fear is that Clemson fans as a whole do not agree, in which vas a new coach is not going to dramatically change things.
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CU Guru [1273]
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Re: Please stop posting that "Dabo needs to show Brownell how to recruit."
Dec 19, 2015, 8:25 AM
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AMEN to all you stated. I hope BB or the administration does not take seriously the total ignorance displayed on this site.
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CU Guru [1223]
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If you win, they will come!
Dec 19, 2015, 8:27 AM
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OP had success and students showed up, until the not good enougher's played their hand and ran him out of town ....
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CU Guru [1273]
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Re: If you win, they will come!
Dec 19, 2015, 8:33 AM
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Purnell was a good recruiter that got us athletes but basically put them in a press and threw out a basketball. When forced in the tournament to play a half-court game he could not do it. BB is actually a coach but has obviously not been as successful recruiting as we need to be. Give him time with the upgraded facilities before you throw him to the curb.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Please stop posting that "Dabo needs to show Brownell how to recruit."
Dec 19, 2015, 8:32 AM
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Agree 100%.
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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Are you serious?
Dec 19, 2015, 8:32 AM
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Are you saying that lack of fan support is why they can't ever win ? That's got to be the weakest excuse I've ever heard. I'd say lack of recruiting and lack of good coaching is why.
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CU Guru [1223]
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Read what I posted before you wine
Dec 19, 2015, 8:46 AM
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Clearly I stated that if the team starts winning fans will show up, hence this football season DV and Clemson games have been hotter tickets than during bowdens years, heck even that super loud Miami game at Clemson when I was a student wasn't even close to being sold out, the upper decks were empty... It takes wins to get crowd support , that's what I said... Now you know why Tigernet long timers like myself avoid posting, you ding dongs don't know how to comprehend these days
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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Re: Read what I posted before you wine
Dec 19, 2015, 9:09 AM
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I wasn't even responding to your post. But thanks for comprehending.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Read what I posted before you wine
Dec 19, 2015, 8:01 PM
[ in reply to Read what I posted before you wine ] |
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where are the dabo haters now that didn't want him hired, and everytime he lost a game, they wanted him fired.if we lose in the orange bowl, some of them will come out from hiding.same if we get to the championshiip game and lose. if we win it ,they will be out again,if we don't win it next year.
you can not please negative people .they will always find something to complain about,and tell us what they would do if they were the coach.
go tigers
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CU Guru [1223]
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Re: Are you serious?
Dec 19, 2015, 8:51 AM
[ in reply to Are you serious? ] |
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Also fake name Morris, it takes two to tango, the team and the crowd, or else people would not talk about venues being rough environments to play end, how loud Little John was during those press years of OP benefited the team I'm sure.... Do that being said no matter the coach... Rain, sleet or snow, Clemson fans should show... To support the student athletes that chose to represent our great university
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CU Guru [1223]
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Re: Are you serious?
Dec 19, 2015, 8:52 AM
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Play in* sorry iPhone auto typing ... Trump needs some dictation support lol
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Orange Blooded [2843]
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Well said. Brilliant post.***
Dec 19, 2015, 8:45 AM
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Legend [16900]
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please stop blindly supporting a coach who can't get it done***
Dec 19, 2015, 8:45 AM
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CU Guru [1293]
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Ditto on "well said"...
Dec 19, 2015, 9:03 AM
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like we would replace him with Calapari or Izzy. All the points made are spot on.
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CU Medallion [58313]
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I like Brownell, and I agree with most of what you say, but
Dec 19, 2015, 9:20 AM
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I believe that Brownell, rightly or wrongly, is now inextricably tied to what has become a dismal era of Clemson basketball. I have stated many times that I believe that the timing was all wrong for him at Clemson, and unfortunately for coach Brownell, the good of the program and the university must be place above his chance at redemption and vindication. Even if we do consider the very real limitations he was saddled with, Coach Brownell can't be given a totally free pass regarding the state of the program he has guided for 6 years.
When recruits now look at Clemson basketball under Brownell, what they see is not good. They don't care about a list of reasons why, they just know that he has not been successful, and that matters.
As for the list of reasons, let's take a look.
Basketball:
Has a lousy history
Has never won an ACC Tournament
Has only advanced to the Elite Eight once
We can't do anything about any of that. If we honestly believe we can never have a good basketball program because of these reasons, then I'm very serious when I say we should just scap the entire program now. Bulldoze the Littlejohn area and make more room for football parking.
Is located in a very talent poor state
We can't do anything about that either, but I still think it's a weak excuse. Almost all good programs recruit well outside of their own states. Many of our own good players in the past have come from outside of SC.
Has a crappy arena which is only now being improved
Has never had consistent support from the administration
These are the only legitimate excuses for us not having a very good basketball program; at least better than it has traditionally been, and certainly much better than it has been under Brownell. These are things that can, and MUST be corrected (at least the arena/facilities are being addressed).
Has inconsistent and generally poor fan support
Traditionally, when we have had good teams, fan support has been very good, even outstanding at times. Clemson fans were in a frenzy when Barnes was building something here, and even for a few years under Purnell. We are now mired in such a slump, many tend to think it's always been this way, but it hasn't, and if we build something and get some good players in here and give fans some glimmer of hope, they will return in force.
There is absolutely no reason we can't have a good basketball program at Clemson. None. But, at this point the program needs a shot in the arm, and I think, a new direction. I really, really hope Brownell turns it around this year. I hope the light comes on for his guys and they surprise in conference and finish strong. On the other hand, if this is yet another year of no improvement, then I see no reason to continue down this road.
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Associate AD [813]
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Re: Please stop posting that "Dabo needs to show Brownell how to recruit."
Dec 19, 2015, 9:21 AM
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You sound like it is what it is. That's a poor perspective. The BB program will never b more with this approach.
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All-In [43979]
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That is not my perspective at all.
Dec 19, 2015, 10:43 AM
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I want so much more from Clemson basketball. But we have never shown a commitment to excellence in it. If we are willing to pony up the cash for a great coach and create a culture of strong and passionate basketball support, then I support moving on from Brownell and upgrading our coaching. But if we are going to continue as we have before, I would prefer to give Brownell as many tools as possible and hope that he can get us over the hump. We could do a lot worse than him.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Couple of things that don't seem supported by the evidence.
Dec 19, 2015, 10:54 AM
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1. Has inconsistent and generally poor fan support. Clemson basketball fan support is excellent and Littlejohn is a difficult place to play when our fans are enthused by an entertaining basketball team that justifies the difficulty of getting to a small town in the northwest corner of the state a long way from any reasonably populous areas.
2. Brad Brownell isn't the rah-rah guy Dabo is, but he isn't a bland, boring guy either. He is a knowledgeable guy who frequently shows emotion and can be very funny too. I think this is the central problem that we have right now. Brad isn't a good salesman. He doesn't seem to have the enthusiasm and energy that is required to get people, be they players or fans, excited about what he is building. His pregame interviews reflect that and his post game interviews often project an "us and them" relationship between coaches and players. We are told that he is an excellent coach, but we repeatedly see little evidence on the floor(inbounds play 2 games ago. Ugh!) and his post game remarks suggest he is frustrated with repeated errors by his players, which doesn't suggest a team getting better due to coaching. We are trending down in all areas of play, from development of big men and guard play to improvement in overall shooting and defense.
3. Given the circumstances, I think Brownell is recruiting fine at Clemson. He finally has the facilities he needs to level the playing field somewhat. Now give him consistent attendance from fans who are loud and who care, and strong administrative support and we will see an improved team. Our recruiting is definitely not "fine." I can't imagine anyone thinking our recruiting is anything but atrocious. I don't see any improvement in this team over his tenure. What can you point to as evidence? He has to give the fans a reason to believe their efforts are likely to be rewarded with an exciting game that ends with a W.
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Legend [15862]
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Judge Keller this is one of the best and well thought out post I have
Dec 19, 2015, 10:58 AM
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read on this or any other site. Well done! You deserve the respect afforded to you by many CU fans.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: Please stop posting that "Dabo needs to show Brownell how to recruit."
Dec 19, 2015, 11:00 AM
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Dabo or somebody needs to give BB some pointers on recruiting and then retaining the recruits he finally manages to get....and I am talking about ACC quality recruits BECAUSE we are in the ACC......and how many players have left the program since BB has become the coach.......if BB can not do this (and it appears he can not) then we need to move on and get somebody else to run this program....not expecting us to be in the top tier of the ACC BUT we should at least be competitive enough to stay in the middle tier and not ALWAYS be near or at the bottom of the league.....THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE...Go Tigers!!!!
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Freshman [5]
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Re: Please stop posting that "Dabo needs to show Brownell how to recruit."
Dec 19, 2015, 12:06 PM
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I have to disagree with a couple of things in your post. First, fan support has been really good when we have decent teams. Littlejohn has been a difficult place to play when we've had decent teams. Fan support will ebb and flow with the success of the team. That's how it is at most places other than the schools that are constantly successful. Second, recruiting and retaining players seems to be a problem from a couple of perspectives. One, you have to "believe" you can do something before you do it. I "heard" from Brownell's mouth right off the bat shortly after he was hired say, "I'm not sure if we can recruit players here to compete with the upper echelon of the league". He actually said that in an interview. To me, that obviously indicates a lack of belief in one's ability to recruit regardless of what the excuses might be. The facilities are obviously a big issue, however, why is it that coaches at these lower level schools (e.g. VCU, gonzago, etc) can recruit and attract good players and/or build them up?? Did gonzago have great facilities before they became what they are today? I doubt it. Gonzago came out of nowhere to be a consistent tourney team. I think there's lack of overall belief in the guy that he can get the job done. If facilities have been the reason in his mind, then he better show some "recruiting wins" immediately once the new arena and facilities are done. Retaining of players is also a concern as we've seen a constant exodus of players over the last several years. It seems excessive. How can you build continuity in a program with an environment like that? Lastly, I think many fans refer to Dabo helping him out in terms of recruiting bc Dabo was able to lure in top talent like Spiller BEFORE we had great football facilities. By all accounts, our football facilities were terrible at the time compared to the top programs. Dabo had a belief that if I can just get this guy here , we have a chance to build something. He didn't let excuses get in his way. Dabo believed Clemson was a special place and that belief allowed him to over-achieve in terms of recruiting.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Please stop posting that "Dabo needs to show Brownell how to recruit."
Dec 19, 2015, 12:11 PM
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Your basketball team is like our football team. It's at such a disadvantage being in by far the best basketball conference.
It's so hard to build it up to an elite program with all those other schools you have to play every year that have the natural advantage over you.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Decent comparison, save for one glaring fault in your logic.
Dec 19, 2015, 12:12 PM
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We didn't hire Muschamp to coach our basketball team.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Decent comparison, save for one glaring fault in your logic.
Dec 19, 2015, 8:21 PM
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that's true. Muschamp is a much higher calibre hire.
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110%er [5912]
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Re: Decent comparison, save for one glaring fault in your logic.
Dec 19, 2015, 8:30 PM
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You hope and pray. Did he have a winning record at Florida - which happens to be one of those schools with built-in advantages?
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CU Medallion [51774]
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Have you checked the latest top 10 FOOTBALL rankings??
Dec 20, 2015, 12:48 AM
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Yeah, I'm not sure what the football rankings have to do with your basketball program...
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Legend [16470]
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How many SC players going to the Tarholes? Talent poor huh?***
Dec 19, 2015, 3:46 PM
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CU Medallion [51774]
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Not saying anything about Brownell, but...
Dec 19, 2015, 8:46 PM
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have you seen where Duke plays basketball?
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All-In [43979]
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Yes, I have seen where Duke plays basketball.
Dec 20, 2015, 1:09 AM
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Cameron Indoor is a smaller arena, but it's loud and has a mystique to it. The practice facility is very nice, as are the player amenities. They are treated like kings. Plus, they play at one of the best programs and for a coaching legend.
Translation: we must start taking basketball a lot more seriously as a school and fan base if we want to compete with that.
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