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Orange Blooded [3999]
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Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 11:51 AM
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I really enjoy listening to Packer because he always tells it like it is. He says we all get bent out of shape about recruiting rankings when in reality, it doesn't matter. Players still have to develop. His case in point, UGA. Since the playoff, no team has had more 5-stars than UGA. In fact, they have more than Bama. What does UGA have to show for their top classes? One playoff win? Packer said stars don't mean jack unless talent is developed. I never thought of it that way and he is 100% correct.
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Orange Blooded [3037]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 12:03 PM
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It never occured to you that coaches have to develop players? You needed Mark Packer to break that news?
UGA gets a ton of talent. UGA puts a boatload of players into the NFL, which suggests they develop players. The not-so-subtle theme to your post is that UGA underachieves, to which I would agree. I would disagree that recruiting rankings don't matter. Take a look at the recruiting rankings of teams who have won the national title. Those aren't teams with a bunch of 3 stars and great development.
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All-In [36207]
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UGA ABSOLUTELY UNDERINDEXES on Performance
Dec 17, 2021, 1:36 PM
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Players to the NFL is a silly indicator of success unless you want to be declared, along with your constant pre-season recruiting champions, the NFL player pipeline champ. What matters in the realm of CFB is: Conf Champ wins, Playoff or BCS appearances, CFP Championships and Other AP Natty Champs.
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Orange Blooded [3999]
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CU Guru [1746]
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Yes, I agree that recruiting rankings matter in the sense...
Dec 17, 2021, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day? ] |
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that its a pretty good indicator of if you'll be a top 10, top 20 or an unranked team consistently over a 3-4 year period.
Basing every single little thing on if you win a title or not and tying that to overall success isn't the way to measure it. Really its Top 10 finishes and playoff appearances to me. Alot of factors go into winning a title.
For those that disagree, there is some measure that every team to win a title finished at lest in the top 12 over a 4 year period.
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All-In [31199]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day? ] |
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It never occured to you that coaches have to develop players? You needed Mark Packer to break that news?
UGA gets a ton of talent. UGA puts a boatload of players into the NFL, which suggests they develop players. The not-so-subtle theme to your post is that UGA underachieves, to which I would agree. I would disagree that recruiting rankings don't matter. Take a look at the recruiting rankings of teams who have won the national title. Those aren't teams with a bunch of 3 stars and great development.
Dawg in watching the SEC championship the announcer mentioned how many surprises (not sure how to word it) unexpected I guess is better, but not 5 stars that were major contributors this year. Thought that interesting.
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Orange Blooded [4247]
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Legend [15862]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 18, 2021, 12:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day? ] |
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Will see if Kirby “Get” Smart can keep from choking in the big games! I believe Clemson was in the CFP 6 times by developing player’s. During that time the 5 star dogs sat on the sidelines watching us play for 4 NC’s winning 2.
UGA has 1 from 1980!
How will you feel about Kirby if he chokes again??
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All-In [48055]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 12:05 PM
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Excellent point. But you still have to have a base for recruiting. Yeah, you'll have the breakthrough 2 and 3 stars, but the athletes coming in still have to have certain measurables and skill. So in that vain, recruiting ranks do matter. Quozzel and I think TigersO and others have broken it down before.
Otherwise, you'd have a Duke winning a natty since cutcliff developed so well.
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All-TigerNet [13221]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 12:18 PM
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How about this fact:
Per 247 rankings...
We won our second National Championship in 2016 with a avg class ranking of 13 the prior 4 years (11, 9, 16, 15).
We won our 2018 championship with with a avg class ranking of 11 the prior 4 years (7, 16, 11, 9).
With that said, it's not about the number of signees (which heavily influences 247's ranking), but
1) the avg stars of the players (which we always rank much higher), and...
2) how we develop, and...
3) how long they stay in the program (ex: 4 years instead of 3).
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All-In [31199]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 3:23 PM
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How about this fact:
Per 247 rankings...
We won our second National Championship in 2016 with a avg class ranking of 13 the prior 4 years (11, 9, 16, 15).
We won our 2018 championship with with a avg class ranking of 11 the prior 4 years (7, 16, 11, 9).
With that said, it's not about the number of signees (which heavily influences 247's ranking), but
1) the avg stars of the players (which we always rank much higher), and...
2) how we develop, and...
3) how long they stay in the program (ex: 4 years instead of 3).
Agreed I look at the avg per recruit. Really started to pay more attention when SC was in the top 20 with a bunch of 3 stars. Some teams are going to oversign every year. Another thing to consider is how many end up on campus and play. Be curious to look at our last 4 years of recruits and see who all is in the 85 count.
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CU Guru [1485]
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I disagree with that, it does matter
Dec 17, 2021, 12:23 PM
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yes development is the next step, but you can't develop talent if it is not already in someone.
The ranking do provide a general basis of talent. UGA has recruited second to Bama for the last few years and it is starting to show on the field.
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CU Guru [1485]
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I do think Clemson's system does not need as much
Dec 17, 2021, 12:28 PM
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talent to succeed. We really do a great job of player development at most positions. We can take decent players and turn them into great college players. But many of those players will not make it to the next level.
I know coaches use that in recruiting. But that is the program structure and Dabo does a great job with it. I would love to see us consistently recruit in the top 5 every year, just to see how dominant Clemson would be.
Our system with exceptional talent would be nearly unbeatable. But as with some 5 star talent, these kids have been catered to for their entire lives, and cannot handle being pushed to the next level of their development.
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110%er [6132]
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are good at developing the most important position?
Dec 17, 2021, 12:50 PM
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QB? DJU major steps back from last season. What about WR? didn't see any improvement from returning WRs.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: are good at developing the most important position?
Dec 17, 2021, 12:59 PM
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which returning receivers played more than a few games? Ngata looked improved earlier in the season before he got hurt. Ross played hurt most of the season so I'm not sure we can judge him. Williams barely played at all, and I can't even remember if Ladson played in a single game or not. What other returning receivers actually played more than a few games? I know Collins was a freshman and not a returning receiver, but it seemed to me that he improved a lot from the start of the season. He's perhaps the only receiver to be healthy the entire way.
What about last season? Did Rodgers not have his best season while at Clemson? Did Powell not have his best season by far?
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All-TigerNet [13221]
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Re: are good at developing the most important position?
Dec 17, 2021, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to are good at developing the most important position? ] |
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I will agree that getting seperation and downfield blocking hasn't been as good as we've seen in the past.
Another part of the issue is
1) It's very difficult to develop the WR's when the QB hasn't progressed as you hoped (also can attribute to O line weaknesses) and
2) we've had a slew of injuries over the last 2 years that's interrupted progression. I mean, I've had so much hope for Ladson and Ngata. I can't remember two athletes that were injured in their career more than they have been. They got injured so frequently that EJ Willams caught the injury bug. Of course, we all know what happened to Justyn Ross
I'm hopeful we're past the injury bug, I think we have some solid young kids at WR. Lastly, I sure hope Will Taylor is healthy and can develop at the Slot position as I think he has a huge talent. I think he can be as good as Hunter Renfrow.
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Orange Blooded [3621]
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Re: are good at developing the most important position?
Dec 17, 2021, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to are good at developing the most important position? ] |
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The main worry with retaining/promoting our assistants on the offensive side. I didn’t see any development or improvement with our QB, WR’s or O-line. In most cases all actually regressed to the point we had NO passing game and the other teams knew it.
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All-In [31199]
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Re: are good at developing the most important position?
Dec 17, 2021, 3:32 PM
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The main worry with retaining/promoting our assistants on the offensive side. I didn’t see any development or improvement with our QB, WR’s or O-line. In most cases all actually regressed to the point we had NO passing game and the other teams knew it.
I was happy as heck. I had been begging them to run the ball. 3 studs back there. QB and WR’s struggling quit forcing the passing game. We just were not very good at it this year.
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All-In [36207]
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Started Until it Failed AGAIN Last Week
Dec 31, 2018, 7:30 AM
[ in reply to I disagree with that, it does matter ] |
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When daddy Bammer took a switch to Kirbeeeee's ####### just like Adrian Peterson did to his boy.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 12:48 PM
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IMO the thing that's most prevented Georgia from making the CFP more than 1 time before this year and winning a NC is an elite QB. They've had a few solid guys at the position but haven't had a guy like Watson, Lawrence, Tua, Burrow, etc... It's not impossible to win a title without a QB like that but it's certainly a whole lot harder.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 2:21 PM
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Back in the days of Danny Ford it was Blue Chip. His saying was “Blue Chip = Cow Chip” if you don’t develop.
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All-In [31199]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 4:25 PM
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Back in the days of Danny Ford it was Blue Chip. His saying was “Blue Chip = Cow Chip” if you don’t develop.
Dang how recruiting has changed. Unsure of how guys were rated back in the day.
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110%er [7157]
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agree to an extent. I will say you have a better chance at
Dec 17, 2021, 2:40 PM
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developing and getting elite production out of higher ranked recruits. Not all.. but the rate of return is higher with a higher ranked recruit. To act like recruiting doens't matter is a shallow way to look at it. Yes there are alot of guys who over achieve and start as a 2 star and have multiple year careers in the NFL. But I woudl say Clemson didn't start winning CFPs until they starting getting elite talent. And if you have a couple of elite players mixed with a base team of above average (4star) type players then your chance of success goes WAY up. Its common sense. You can recruit nothing but 2 and 3 stars if you want but your success rate will be alot lower.
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110%er [5074]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 2:54 PM
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The people that say stars don't matter are generally not happy with their recruiting class. You can recruit a average of a top 15 class and be pretty good. Reason is you can only put 11 on the field at one time. You have to find stud 3 stars and hit on most of your 4-5 stars.
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All-In [31199]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 3:28 PM
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Packer is great. Have not seen him since he did a show at Wake. Tommy Bowden’s last game.
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All-In [31199]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 3:35 PM
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On another recruiting note I always thought Beamer at VT did the most with less. Recruited the heck out of some 3 stars and had very solid teams for years.
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All-In [25870]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 4:12 PM
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As I said a few days ago, whenever DAWG returns, it will be too soon.
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Varsity [230]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 17, 2021, 10:16 PM
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Did Packer say where he was getting his data from? Because according to Rivals, UGA has signed 26 5-star recruits since 2014, when the playoff started, through the 2021 class, while Bama has signed 37. (For comparison, Clemson has signed 25). Even if you add in Georgia's transfers, that's still 29 for UGA. I didn't count this 2022 class signed this week because those guys obviously haven't played yet.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 18, 2021, 9:00 AM
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ESPN reported that Georgia has finished in the top 3 on NSD in each of the last 6 recruiting classes.
According to 24/7...the last 6 recruiting cycles (2017-'22), here is the breakdown of the four & five-star recruits for the various "CFP power teams":
Team 5-stars 4-stars TOTAL
Bama 25 106 131
Georgia 28 87 115
Ohio St. 23 84 107
OU 5 81 86
LSU 12 70 82
Clemson 17 61 78
These were the totals as of Wednesday evening.
Draw your own thoughts and conclusions from the schools ability to recruit, develop and win titles.
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CU Guru [1938]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 18, 2021, 10:15 AM
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No, he's an idiot and not correct at all. Go ahead and bring in some duds and see what happens.
You need top recruits or Georgia wouldn't have dominated the SEC Least this season. Smart is a terrible coach, but good at recruiting or otherwise they'd be 6-6 on the season.
Packer and other talking heads ruin ESPN for me. I won't watch any talking heads on any day other than a few minutes of College Game Day and they are wrong there about 50% of the time, at least.
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CU Guru [1938]
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Re: Anyone listen to Packer on ESPNU on signing day?
Dec 18, 2021, 10:16 AM
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Oh, and Alabama contradicts every stupid point that Packer makes. Bama is Bama because of #### recruiting and if you think otherwise, you are in the idiot club.
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CU Medallion [64946]
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STARS don't mean JACK SQUAT, when you're living in a VAN
Dec 18, 2021, 10:18 AM
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down by the RIVER!
-Matt Foley, Motivational Speaker
OOPSY DAISY, forgot to add, for the Georgia crowd, "When you're living in a VAN down by the RIVER, after you get out on BAIL!"
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