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110%er [5121]
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CU Medallion [64517]
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I read an article recently that said...
Jan 20, 2022, 12:24 PM
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there has been at least one university hazing death each year from 1969 to 2019, and over 200 university hazing deaths have occurred since 1838, with 40 of those occurring between 2007 and 2019 alone. The leading cause of death in those instances was alcohol poisoning.
I was in a fraternity during my Clemson days but in light of the Tucker Hipps incident among others, can you really blame Clemson, or any other college or university, for being hyper-sensitive to hazing allegations? The liability is extreme and the consequences severe.
Maybe I'm a little old school so while I wouldn't consider having a pledge clean my room, wash my car, make a biscuit run at 2:00 AM, or caddy for my at the golf course hazing, I suspect most schools and a fraternities national organization would strongly disagree.
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Legend [18780]
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Yep.
Jan 20, 2022, 12:38 PM
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I was also in a fraternity. I was never much of a hazer but maybe a room cleaning or two.
It brought out a dark side of some people. I remember a brother that shall remain nameless that took it to an extreme every year and every year the pledges would rise up and get him back in extreme ways too. I won't say what exactly they did to him one year but I will say it involved being tied up naked. He deserved every minute of those hours.
Dude would never learn. Sometimes I wonder if he is torturing small animals somewhere.
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All-TigerNet [10779]
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Re: Yep.
Jan 20, 2022, 1:55 PM
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first name ted?
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Legend [18780]
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Re: Yep.
Jan 20, 2022, 2:01 PM
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Who me or the jerk that hazed people badly?
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All-TigerNet [10779]
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Re: Yep.
Jan 20, 2022, 11:47 PM
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the hazing perp:ted bundy.knew a kid in 7th grade who liked to torture cats.often wondered how he turned out.not a good sign.also reminds me of neidemeyer from animal house.
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Legend [18780]
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Re: Yep.
Jan 21, 2022, 4:50 AM
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Nah, his initials are AG. If we have any lurkers here from my fraternity from the mid to late 90s, they know exactly who I am talking about. I had to love or respect for this pos.
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110%er [6972]
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Re: I read an article recently that said...
Jan 20, 2022, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to I read an article recently that said... ] |
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Yeah I was in a fraternity at Clemson, and we had a little bit, but nothing real serious mostly feats of drinking, but even looking back on that it was pretty dangerous. Now I’ve gotten more mature, anytime I see something like this I ask myself “would I want my son doing it?” That really tells you all you need to know. I certainly wouldn’t want him getting shitfaced drunk and having keg carry contests or having to slide down a mud bank head first
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CU Medallion [55272]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 12:27 PM
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Their A$$ should spend a little time where criminals take hazing serious 24/7!!!
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Orange Blooded [2710]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 12:30 PM
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Enlighten me(I’m serious), what purpose do these organizations serve? All I’ve ever seen is a bunch fratted up drunk juveniles with ties, dresses and attitudes. Maybe they do more but, when say you fraternity, this is the first thing that comes to mind.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Do a little research. There is A LOT more to it than that.
Jan 20, 2022, 12:52 PM
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I can't speak for all of them but the ones with which I am most familiar perform quite a bit of community service and raise a lot of money for some very worthy charitable organizations. They also provide members with scholarships and leadership development opportunities.
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Legend [18780]
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Re: Do a little research. There is A LOT more to it than that.
Jan 20, 2022, 1:16 PM
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I agree. I learned a lot of life lessons myself. Firstly, I probably picked the wrong one - the "cool guys" and not a more solid group of guys that didn't have quite the stature.
I was thinking with the wrong head. Hahaha.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Between the ages of 18 and 21...
Jan 20, 2022, 1:23 PM
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and, in may cases beyond (well beyond), we were all likely guilty of that at times.
So welcome to the club. We've been missing you at the meetings.
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Orange Blooded [2710]
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Re: Between the ages of 18 and 21...
Jan 20, 2022, 1:25 PM
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I too can follow this logic!
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Freshman [-98]
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Re: Do a little research. There is A LOT more to it than that.
Jan 20, 2022, 1:46 PM
[ in reply to Do a little research. There is A LOT more to it than that. ] |
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That’s such a crock - everything about frats is about booze and getting laid. Yes, they will do a bathtub marathon with a sorority for some cause, but that’s all gift wrapping. I’m sure that there is maybe 10% serious minded young men that make lifelong friends and business contacts and were in it for the “brotherhood”.
Some of my old frat bros still go to Myrtle Beach every year and talk about the old drunken times with their wives and kids - awesome…
Any way you look at it, you have a group of immature, unsupervised teenagers deciding how to treat the pledges. It only takes a couple of idiots to unintentionally kill someone, then we are counting on the morals/ethics/scruples of the same not fully developed minds to handle it correctly - ain’t gonna happen. I only knew one person that actually worked his way thru Clemson and joined a frat. So most of these kids are spoiled and entitled. I was.
The best justification for going off to college is to get away from the parental units and make your own path. There are very few classes that couldn’t be done on YouTube. Joining a frat is contrary to that individualism and makes you part of a pack mentality, taking bigger risks than you might otherwise consider.
The whole thing is out of date, in many cases racist to the core (KA), and in all cases are enabling minors to drink to excess illegally. What could go wrong?
There goes the rest of my brownie points…
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Well...
Jan 20, 2022, 1:56 PM
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I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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110%er [5121]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson ] |
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Out of all the people I have known in frats, I can count on one hand the ones who actually got anything long lasting out of their membership.
All the rest were just there for the booze, test libraries and loose women.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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If that's all they got out of it...
Jan 20, 2022, 1:24 PM
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that's probably about all they put into it or ever wanted out of it.
Just sayin'
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110%er [5121]
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Re: If that's all they got out of it...
Jan 20, 2022, 2:01 PM
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It was. They got what they wanted, same as the vast majority of their peers.
That’s the real problem. Most don’t care about the fraternity part…just the party and get laid part.
Alt least in my experience.
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Legend [18780]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 1:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson ] |
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I was definitely there for the women. There was a fraternity that I knew at lot of the guys and were friends with many. They really wanted me to join their fraternity but I didn't because the girls liked more the guys in the one I joined. I don't talk to any of those guys anymore.
As for the women, I eventually married a Colombian beauty many years later. I don't regret a second of it but definitely went in for the wrong reasons.
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Legend [16413]
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You don't know me, but without my "frat"
Jan 20, 2022, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson ] |
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I would likely have never met my wife or the 5 or 6 best friends I have in this world
You might say that I would likely have a different wife and friends, but I like the ones I have. They are called social fraternities, and that is primarily how they function. In addition to meeting some of the most important people in my life, I learned a lot about teamwork and community service via my association with my "frat". And I got drunk plenty of times - something I managed to do even before joining a "frat".
If you weren't in one, I hope it was by your choice, and if it was, then you had your reasons for choosing not to join one. But I could go on for a long time about all of the non-partying benefits I received from being in my particular fraternity.
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110%er [5121]
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Re: You don't know me, but without my "frat"
Jan 20, 2022, 2:24 PM
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I pledged a frat. A few weeks in, life happened and I was suddenly totally broke and unable to pay pledge dues. When I told them about my situation I was shown the door…brotherhood. Not one brother bothered contacting me about it either, even my “big brother “.
It didn’t matter since I’m not the type that really needed to be in a frat anyway. Everything worked out for the best.
It was your frat. Spring 88.
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Legend [16413]
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Hmm...will send you a tmail
Jan 20, 2022, 2:42 PM
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Had a very different experience a semester earlier, but it's a bit personal.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 12:38 PM
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At the least they should only be for juniors and seniors students. I think freshman and sophomores should just concentrate on school.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Some schools don't permit Freshmen to rush or pledge
Jan 20, 2022, 12:48 PM
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Pledges have to be at least a first semester sophomore and have a minimum 2.5 GPA.
Of course, with all of the college credits kids earn these days before ever setting foot on campus, this probably only applies to a very small percentage.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 12:47 PM
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If Greek life is banned, students will find other ways to gather. This doesn’t excuse the hazing, debauchery, or death in any way. Unfortunately, the few always make life worse for everyone. Crack down on them seriously enough and maybe it will change for the better.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 1:32 PM
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My undergrad basically banded greek life indirectly. Basically all student orgs had to be open and freely join-able at any time by student (small liberal arts college). You know what, it was kinda awesome. During those days I was a member of the College Republicans that also went to attend all the College Dems meetings (early PoliSci major -later dropped) for a while. It was fine. When anyone can drop into an "official" meeting, it keeps the sanity in check.
We had none of the other issues I have seen as far as hazing, bad behavior. Removing the exclusivity social requirement solved a lot of that. If a group was a "abusive" in any way, folks just walked away.
Sure, there was the underground frat but it was more of a joke. Some of the sports teams had a little more issues but even then it was minor compared to what I have seen elsewhere.
You don't have to crack down on anything, solve the "exclusivity membership" and it will curtail 99% of the worst behavior. Even the "underground" wasn't a thing as private stuff was just private .
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Legend [18780]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 1:42 PM
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Very mature of your younger self to attend the rival Democrat club meetings.
I wish more people had enough of an open mind to at least listen to what the other side is saying
Seems like honor among men is fading.*
* I am more excluding women just sounds more dramatic this way.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 2:30 PM
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Yeah, but I am a policy wonk - even back then. It really wasn't a conscious choice to "expand" just a thing to do. I mean why not?
I agree, more folks need expand. Folks are losing the ability to "understand and entertain" ideas without "adopting" them. Folks think that "exposure" is "indoctrination". Even if one just entertains, the "opposing viewpoint" often has valid criticisms (even if the proposed solutions are in error) - not wholesale devaluation of the held belief but weaknesses that can be addressed. I often point to Marx and that some of his objections to negative effects capitalism ion the 19th century are valid even if Marx (really Engel) solutions are impractical or unreasonable. Refusal to address valid criticism often leads to generating actual opponents (Like Martin Luther to the Catholic Church as another example)
Policy folks can be a lot more ideologically desensitized than the more political types - not always but that is just my take. I don't really expect that happening much anymore but the majors demanding more tribal behavior because it was decades ago for me. Political Tribalism was just starting to lurk and I did get a few odd looks (mostly from other Republicans if I went out with a known Dem) but the democrats didn't care but this was before the online video gotcha era.
It served me later working on Capitol Hill adjacent (ie for a 3rd party that attends everything). Most folks would not believe how (nearly) best-friend like Sen Boxer and Inhofe would be for a lot of those events.
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CU Medallion [56606]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson ] |
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Although I am a conservative, I used to listen to NPR while driving to and from work every day. For decades. Not Rush Limbaugh. And read the Washington Post online. Until Trump caused them to completely lose their minds. Dropped NPR completely to just listen to music but still read the Washington Post. Under Bezos it is no longer a newspaper but just the daily DNC propaganda newsletter. However it is interesting to see what the other side is screaming about. (I do not support the GOP. The GOP sucks balls with their constant failure theater and pleas for donations for “the fight.” LOL. The GOP does not represent conservatives in any way, shape, or form.)
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Legend [18780]
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Very interesting Swimmer...
Jan 20, 2022, 5:00 PM
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Shocked that you read the Post and listened to NPR. Kinda took you for a Rush guy. One of my best friends was a huge Rush guy in college so I got my earful. I guess you can never make assumptions about people you don't know.
I am basically a liberal and have tried to watch Fox News but just can't take Hannity or Tucker. I try to be open-minded and try to use different sources and listen to media types' different opinions.
I can imagine being a Trump supporter was hard when it seemed all some media companies were fixated on him. I didn't like him one bit but my dad does. He was more about fewer entitlements than really liking the guy's personality I suppose.
I think at this point the US has gotten dangerously tribal. Shoot, I was accused of "white priviledge" on a different social media platform just yesterday (long story). The woke/SJW thing has gotten out of hand and so have the QAnon crowd.
Just this old liberal's worthless 2 cents.
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All-TigerNet [10666]
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Hall of Famer [22429]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 1:39 PM
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I never understood the need or logic behind joining a frat either. May partly be due to that fact that I was the stereotypical (extreme case) poor college student and could not have afforded the dues so I never gave it serious consideration. And I attended Clemson from 1980-1984 during their heyday. It just looked like buying friends to me. Someone else posted that if frats are banned students will find other ways to gather. That is true. But they will be gathering with people they want to be with not with whoever payed to be there with them.
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All-TigerNet [10779]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 2:09 PM
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always felt that i'd rather choose friends myself,rather than having someone else doing it for me.also thought that doing good deeds etc. because of self- motivation was better than those that were obligatory.
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CU Guru [1764]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 3:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson ] |
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My experience was similar. I tore my knee up playing small college football and lost my partial athletic scholarship because I was on crutches for spring practice. I was in the three deep too. My coach was no Dabo!
Transferred back home to CU. I wasn’t a bad student but often worked 12 hour shifts in a factory every Saturday and Sunday to get through college. I had zero loan debt when I graduated. I still had friends and a social life but not enough time or money for frats. I don’t feel deprived. Was there 86-88.
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Hall of Famer [22429]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 3:39 PM
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Does sound similar. I was there 80-84 and did have some debt when I graduated. My dad was paying for my college but he had to retire early due to health issues so I had to take a loan for the last year or so. I worked in the University Creamery and refereed intramural basketball at Fike to make a little beer money and to pay for an engagement ring. Had to mail $20 a month cash to Zales because I didn’t even have a checking account. Made great friends - some that I still stay in touch with and one that I’m still married to. Certainly never felt like I missed anything by not being in a frat.
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Legend [17748]
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They were upper Quad back in my day.***
Jan 20, 2022, 2:02 PM
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Mascot [22]
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Thank God that none of the snitches...
Jan 20, 2022, 2:31 PM
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...from this frat went into the military over college.
"The incidents involved acts of personal servitude by new members and included “line-ups, berating, morally degrading behavior,”
A frat is kicked off of campus for that? LMAO.
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Starter [353]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 2:34 PM
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My pledges tried to kidnap me and take to to UGA. I told them I was going,so don't wrinkle my clothes.
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Scout Team [194]
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That’s 2 over the course of a year…***
Jan 20, 2022, 2:37 PM
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Asst Coach [745]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 3:25 PM
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Scout Team [166]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 4:31 PM
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"School officials say the incidents involved acts of personal servitude by new members and included “line-ups, berating, morally degrading behavior." There's something in these hills!
Frankly, I am shocked there is a worse frat that Sigma Nu at Clemson. Back in the day those guys were the worst of the worst and I saw those guys do some reprehensible stuff. Sickening.
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Legend [17507]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 20, 2022, 4:45 PM
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I was in a Clemson fraternity - the percentage of great guys and jerks was about the same as the general population. 80-90% good guys in my estimation. But I never allowed myself to be hazed or to do something that I did not want to do.
The issue becomes when you team up a jacka$$ frat boy (or a jacka$$ or user in any social arena) with a person easily intimidated or naive. Then bad things can happen without awareness or concurrence of the group as a whole. Then ship can happen.
As far as alcohol goes, most 15-16 year old boys and girls are already drinking long before they get to college. Instead of acknowledging this fact, our politicians and lawyers whose kids are also drinking, have their heads up their a$$. As a result, parents, kids and families pay astronomical fines for something every teen is doing. The drinking age should be 18 years old. The fact that it is 21 does not change the fact most 15-16 year olds are drinking and also smoking weed.
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CU Guru [1937]
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Re: Another frat bites the dust at Clemson
Jan 21, 2022, 11:42 AM
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I was born hating frats.
Frats always started fights with football players back in my day and they always lost even though they outnumbered the players.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Never really understood it anyways …
Jan 21, 2022, 11:54 AM
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Ppl talk about lifelong friends and all this great stuff … well I can say the exact same without the frats and just being a normal student. I don’t hate on em I just think it’s kind of stupid to listen to a group of guys your age telling you to do stuff, or clean this, or do that… I would have been kicked out for slapping the P1$$ out of someone with a handful of baby powder before I let someone my age tell me what to do… but to each their own I guess… just seemed weak to me , but again I don’t hate on the Individuals just the idea of it… we had a huge group of friends and had a freakin blast every weekend with the some of the best ppl I know and none were in a frat.
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