|
Replies: 48
| visibility 1
|
All-TigerNet [13233]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9986
Joined: 5/11/99
|
What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 3:37 PM
|
|
that can overcome the following:
1) Spending. - I've seen it posted before but we are in the bottom 3-4 teams in the ACC with regards to spending on men's basketball.
2) Reputation. - We've Never won an ACC championship and have only played in the title game twice in our existence.
3) Super Clean program. - We are not going to pay players as a program, we're not going to do shady backdoor deals. Other schools have and will continue to do so. But, the administration/compliance isn't going to stand for it.
To me, Gonzaga is a program I would aspire us to become. Where do we get someone like Mark Few (even if that coach gets a DUI like Few did this past year).
Something has to change and I'm in favor of a change at this point. Brad has only won 2 games in the ACC tournament 1 or 2 times, but lost to lower seeds in the first game something like 7 times.
But at the same time, we have obvious hurdles that we need to throw money at. It needs to be the coach and his staff (a big splash hire) or at the program to go towards recruiting & staff support and anything else lacking.
We need a coach who can get the recruits (despite budget deficits and overcome our lack of history). We need someone who can coach his butt off and win more games and get us to the tournament more frequently.
I'd also like to see us trip and fall into an ACC championship before I die as well.
With Coach K retiring and Roy gone at UNC, now is the time to make a move! A BIG move!
|
|
|
|
 |
Orange Blooded [3123]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 1313
Joined: 1/21/22
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 3:44 PM
|
|
Well, next year Brad is set to make 3 million, which is good for top 5 in the league. So not sure we aren’t spending. Also, this whole notion of a “clean program” is gone. What exactly is against the rules? No back door deals needed. Pay players if you want. Don’t make them go to class. What could possibly be against the rules now? There have been quite a few lists of young coaches who make considerably less than 3 million a year who would gladly take an ACC job with the nice new facilities we have.
If you like Gonzaga so much, hire Brian Michaelson. That would be a good hire.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5712]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4268
Joined: 10/22/00
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 4:49 PM
|
|
When are people going to learn you can’t solve problems by simply throwing a lot of money at it? Just look at our nation. 30 trillion in debt and problems everywhere.
How much money did we initially throw at Dabo? Sometimes it doesn’t take a lot of money to get started.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [96811]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 29206
Joined: 9/14/05
|
Unfortunately, coaches similar to the Gonzaga HC are
Feb 11, 2022, 3:45 PM
|
|
Few and far between
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Unfortunately, coaches similar to the Gonzaga HC are
Feb 11, 2022, 5:16 PM
|
|
I see what you did there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11432]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13602
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: Unfortunately, coaches similar to the Gonzaga HC are
Feb 11, 2022, 6:32 PM
[ in reply to Unfortunately, coaches similar to the Gonzaga HC are ] |
|
Tommy Lloyd was the assistant at Gonzags and doing a great job in his first year at Arizona with mainly transfers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6692]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 6139
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 3:46 PM
|
|
How would we know? We don't even know the budget or even who our options would be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [863]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 1464
Joined: 1/2/14
|
I’m sure we can get similar results for much less.
Feb 11, 2022, 3:52 PM
|
|
Heck, I’d take the job and leave FL for a few hundred thousand per season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31200]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9116
Joined: 8/31/15
|
Re: I’m sure we can get similar results for much less.
Feb 11, 2022, 4:36 PM
|
|
I would do it for 100,000 a year. I’m at least going .500 or I will get paid 1/2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
We are paying the current coach plenty enough money, and
Feb 11, 2022, 3:51 PM
|
|
$2.5M-$3M is more than enough to entice a good coach.
There is nothing to "overcome". We have money, great facilities, a great university, a great league, and an eager fanbase.
There are countless coaches out there that would jump at a chance to coach at Clemson. Any reasonable coach understands that "history" has nothing to do with what he can do today, and Clemson is a tremendous opportunity.
We have ZERO barriers blocking us from elevating our program.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [76760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28555
Joined: 12/1/18
|
It’s not more than enough as evidence
Feb 11, 2022, 4:20 PM
|
|
by where we are today and always have been as a program. Our assistance budget leaves quite a bit to be desired in comparison to other ACC schools. Those are valuable recruiters and technical training experts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
Are you saying the reason we can't improve is
Feb 11, 2022, 8:37 PM
|
|
because Brad hasn't been able to hire good assistants due to a lack of funds?
If so, I'm not buying that at all. Brad was put in charge of our program 12 years ago. He went out and hired who he wanted. I don't believe for a second that he had to settle for lesser coaches than he wanted simply because Clemson made it clear he was on a budget. He hired who he wanted. The entire staff is paid well. Good money. It's not like Brad would go out and hire different guys if given more money. Not buying that at all.
Him and his chosen staff have coached up to their full potential. The head coach is responsible for the output, and the output is not worth $2.6M. That's in the top 40 of the country, but we've been far from a top 40 program in the last 12 years.
Coaching salaries have nothing to do with the state of our program. Either Brad can get it done or he can't. I'm thinking 12 years is more than enough time and data. There are zero excuses after 12 years.
I really like Brad. He seems like a good guy, the players go to school and stay out of trouble. He's a cool dude and solid ambassador. I wish the results were different, but the conclusions are complete. What we've seen over 12 years has absolutely nothing to do with coaching salaries. The buck stops with Brad, and unfortunately he just cannot get it done. No more time, money, or other extraneous factors are affecting the level of play and the consistent inconsistency.
It's time for change. Sorry if that bothers you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [76760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28555
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Good? Sure. The best? We don’t pay
Feb 11, 2022, 8:57 PM
|
|
our assistants as well or better than some of the best programs in the ACC so no, we are not competing for the top coaching talent in MBB. That’s not an opinion, but a matter of fact you can’t “not buy.” You can not like what we have and argue for change, which I’m all for, but the crowd that believes our historically underperforming program is solvable by firing Brad haven’t been paying attention since Barnes was our HC.
So I’d say in response to your question, you’re entitled to think whatever you like, but you’ve chosen to ignore facts for opinion, which don’t jive.
No need to apologize disingenuously. I haven’t offered an opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
So you ARE saying that Brad hasn't been able to hire good
Feb 11, 2022, 9:13 PM
|
|
assistants because the school won't give him the money? Es wanted different guys but he had to go cheapness? He's taken coaches that he didn't really want.. because of money?
Get outta here. Not buying it. At all. Brad is the CEO, and the results are not sufficient. That's all there is to it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [76760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28555
Joined: 12/1/18
|
No. I’ve been very clear on my point.
Feb 11, 2022, 9:29 PM
|
|
He’s not competing for top talent and again, you’re ignoring the fact that we do not pay as well as other ACC schools that have winning traditions in basketball. I also never claimed Brad couldn’t “get more money.”
Again, there is nothing to “buy.” Join IPTAY, be vocal about your opinion and make sure the University knows how you feel. Arguing with me/facts won’t help. I, based on logic, know that while Brad is replaceable and maybe not the ultimate leader of our program, there are other factors hindering our program from being more successful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
I don't think there is anything hindering us from
Feb 11, 2022, 9:49 PM
|
|
becoming a better basketball program. Certainly not the salaries of the assistants.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [76760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28555
Joined: 12/1/18
|
You may be right,
Feb 11, 2022, 11:48 PM
|
|
but history disagrees.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
Disagree. There is nothing in our history that says
Feb 12, 2022, 8:54 PM
|
|
we have tangible things preventing us from doing better right now, today. We have actually done better with worse conditions than we have today. There are no tangible things holding us back. It's just silly to suggest things like assistant pay or anything else is preventing us from coaching better. There are a multitude of programs doing better with less.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7946]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 10415
Joined: 11/28/03
|
Re: We are paying the current coach plenty enough money, and
Feb 11, 2022, 5:54 PM
[ in reply to We are paying the current coach plenty enough money, and ] |
|
$2.5M-$3M is more than enough to entice a good coach.
There is nothing to "overcome". We have money, great facilities, a great university, a great league, and an eager fanbase.
There are countless coaches out there that would jump at a chance to coach at Clemson. Any reasonable coach understands that "history" has nothing to do with what he can do today, and Clemson is a tremendous opportunity.
We have ZERO barriers blocking us from elevating our program.
And yet we have been terrible for a hundred years. Our basketball program is on par with coot football yet a moron like you thinks it’s all great except the coach. Maybe you should read the crap you type out loud before pressing the post reply button
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
Thats not true. We have had periods that prove basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 9:22 PM
|
|
can be successful at Clemson. Again, there are no tangible things that prevent us from being better. Where we have been over 12 years is not acceptable.
Are you capable of discussing this in a mature manner, or no? All that "moron" and other nonsense is simply not necessary.
It's time for change in our basketball program, and we are about to get it. This is Brad's last year. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but please try to curb the childish vitriol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4447]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 4233
Joined: 1/1/19
|
Re: We are paying the current coach plenty enough money, and
Feb 11, 2022, 5:58 PM
[ in reply to We are paying the current coach plenty enough money, and ] |
|
I like the way you think. So many on this board think that since we have not won big in the past we can’t win big in the future. I would never put these small thinkers in charge of my business. Get the right coach and you can win big. The Adm does have to support and get behind the coach. They unfairly never supported Barnes and Ellis
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2846]
TigerPulse: 65%
Posts: 2569
Joined: 6/9/00
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [76760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28555
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Zag’s basketball in Spokane
Feb 11, 2022, 3:52 PM
|
|
might as well be professional. There is no football, but there is a holy passion for round ball.
Few is the coach K of the West Coast. I’d love to see our program modeled after his.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2313]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2177
Joined: 10/10/18
|
Re: Zag’s basketball in Spokane
Feb 11, 2022, 3:58 PM
|
|
If we keep making Littlejohn with smaller attendance, we might as well go back to Fike Field House conditions. We have moved the students away from the court and have a bunch of sit-on-their hands IPTAY people down close. This place does not create a home atmosphere anymore. We made more noise for less reason during the early and mid 70's. If people want to sit and be comfortable while watching Tiger Basketball, give them a place to watch it on closed TV. We need loud and crazy stjudents to cheer our team.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40100]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18284
Joined: 10/28/15
|
At least the IPTAY folks are going to the game***
Feb 11, 2022, 4:20 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [76760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28555
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Some of my best memories
Feb 11, 2022, 4:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Zag’s basketball in Spokane ] |
|
as a student was standing under the goal. I agree 100% with you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31200]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9116
Joined: 8/31/15
|
Re: Zag’s basketball in Spokane
Feb 11, 2022, 5:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Zag’s basketball in Spokane ] |
|
I agree. Kudos to the Iptay folks but students around the floor is what makes college basketball fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4447]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 4233
Joined: 1/1/19
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11432]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13602
Joined: 10/27/04
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11432]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13602
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: Also Matt McMahon at Murray State the top ranked mid major..
Feb 11, 2022, 4:24 PM
|
|
Here is a good interview of Matt McMahon from last night on Field of 68. Really isa good coach and so personable. His team is top 30 in NET and KenPom and going to get probably an at-large bid to the NCAAT.
He played at Appalachian State and his wife played basketball at Furman so they are very familiar with the general Clemson area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R-mX32gwRE
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6692]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 6139
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Also Matt McMahon at Murray State the top ranked mid major..
Feb 11, 2022, 5:01 PM
|
|
Cool. 1.8 million for that guy and let's move on. Sounds good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [314]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 496
Joined: 3/12/07
|
Re: Also Matt McMahon at Murray State the top ranked mid major..
Feb 11, 2022, 5:46 PM
[ in reply to Also Matt McMahon at Murray State the top ranked mid major.. ] |
|
Go look at the Murray State media guide and look at the former coaches. The coaches graveyard is littered with guys that did great there and died elsewhere when they left.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11432]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13602
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: Also Matt McMahon at Murray State the top ranked mid major..
Feb 11, 2022, 6:30 PM
|
|
No, You ook that they got bigger jobs. Each coach is different in their own respect. Phrom the former coach stepped away from the game temporary at Iowa State and will get another opportunity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58376]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46314
Joined: 4/23/00
|
None - just accept mediocre suckage forever
Feb 11, 2022, 4:32 PM
|
|
is what many idiots actually believe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24917]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14802
Joined: 10/12/08
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 4:34 PM
|
|
LBB could probably be hired for one tenth of what Brownie makes. And he would do as well at the things that matter such as winning the ACC tourney or getting into the big dance of 64 at EOS. He could luck up and make it a time or two.
Yeah, I vote for LBB. After all he is one of us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5712]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4268
Joined: 10/22/00
|
This will probably be hard for a lot of you to swallow….
Feb 11, 2022, 5:03 PM
|
|
But you all keep throwing various coaches names out for us to hire. In all honesty, I doubt there are that many basketball coaches who would take the Clemson job. You talk that if we fire CBB we can hire anyone we want. Not true. You need to find out exactly who would be interested in the job first and then go after the best of those. Could be CBB is the best coach who would take on our basketball program.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Trainer [34]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 89
Joined: 12/9/04
|
Re: This will probably be hard for a lot of you to swallow….
Feb 11, 2022, 5:11 PM
|
|
I think ya’ll are barking up the wrong tree. Nil is the way to go(Texas a&m)
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5236]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4317
Joined: 1/27/02
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8520]
TigerPulse: 49%
Posts: 11484
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 5:12 PM
|
|
Great points but schools do not pay players.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7191]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 20374
Joined: 8/18/06
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 5:38 PM
|
|
Forget for a moment overcoming the following;
First thing I would do would be to reach out to a Greg Buckner, or perhaps Terrance Oglesby, two former players with ties to the University and hopefully enough basketball brains to know how to recruit "basketball talent".
I am a little bit sick and tired of the argument that we can't compete with Duke or UNC for 5 star recruits.
I am not suggesting that and frankly don't think most of us armchair forwards/guards really expect that.
But we should be able to recruit against the rest of the league for 3 and 4 star "basketball talent". Losing a close game to UNC is not the problem, but blowing a 23 point lead to Boston College or allowing Ga. Tech to go on a 24-6 run is something we see way too much of, year in and year out. That is the problem, IMO
The thing is the program have not gotten better in the dozen years under Brad Brownell. Sure our guys play hard, but go back and look at the consistent inconsistencies of this program; Turnovers, scoring droughts of 5-7 minutes game after game,( as mentioned above), poor free throw percentages, players who pass on a wide open jump shot, then hesitate to shoot, then find themselves launching a desperation shot at the buzzer. And that is just on offense. Where was the defense the other night when we let a UNC guard drive right past us for the game winning shot. Of course we had a chance at the buzzer ,but your best player was on the bench with 4 fouls .So what if you lose him in overtime. P,J should have been the guy taking that shot.
So for me, the thing is Brad has become to predictable ,and frankly too stale.
So where do you go. You certainly don't go after a big name guy like Mark Few. We need someone with local knowledge of the high schools in this area, and perhaps Georgia and Florida.
Think I am wrong. Well explain to me how a young man who played at Seneca ended up playing for Boston College? His name is Devin Galloway, he is from Anderson, and he ends up at scoring 18 points against us in that 23 point comeback. Question begs; did Brad even look at this kid?
I wonder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11432]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13602
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 6:34 PM
|
|
No he was a mid major prospect, and after that great game at Clemson he missed like 20 straight shots and couldn't score.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7191]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 20374
Joined: 8/18/06
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 10:07 PM
|
|
Seems like he should fit right in with our offense then. Still he was a local talent that if he played for us that night we would have a "W" in conference play instead of a "L".
My point however was to ask how many local kids have not been at least offered an on campus visit ,or a call at home.
There has to be some good "basketball "talent in this part of the country that get away to the Ga. Tech's or FSU's instead of making Clemson home.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Trainer [35]
TigerPulse: 72%
Posts: 55
Joined: 1/2/11
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 5:54 PM
|
|
Lamont Paris at UTC would be a good choice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10763
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 6:20 PM
|
|
There is one really good coach who is available and would almost certainly take the job. Not only would he be the most accomplished coach we've ever hired he's particularly known for taking diamond in the rough talent and putting them in the NBA. He'd also be affordable. He's a no-brainer but most people will stomp their feet and they'll say "no way do I want Gregg Marshall" and we'll let someone else start his career rehab and make their team a powerhouse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1868]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 965
Joined: 9/9/18
|
Mark Few is the anti brad
Feb 11, 2022, 6:22 PM
|
|
Great post. Couldn’t agree more with your sentiments re brad and the program’s situation. Tough spot. Hope we look back in a few years and think Clemson came up big this offseason
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6981]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6351
Joined: 9/21/04
|
Lot of false information in your post
Feb 11, 2022, 10:57 PM
|
|
Clean that up
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5683]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 2714
Joined: 2/10/22
|
Re: What coach can we afford for Men's Basketball
Feb 11, 2022, 11:44 PM
|
|
As long as the new coach can hold on to a 20-point lead, he will be a much better coach than Brownlee.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 5868
Joined: 1/28/12
|
Few was a diamond in the rust, like Dabo,could we get
Feb 12, 2022, 8:19 AM
|
|
that lucky again
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [53716]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43532
Joined: 11/17/03
|
The question is...can we afford NOT to hire a coach we CANNOT
Feb 12, 2022, 8:41 AM
|
|
afford?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 48
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
