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YOUR BALANCE
ACC turning into Big 12?
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ACC turning into Big 12?


Dec 17, 2018, 11:03 AM

What are the chances that the ACC as a whole moves closer to a Big 12 style of football?

Disclaimer: I don't think Clemson will change anything that we are doing on offense.

However, I think Clemson would be the driving force to this occurring if it happens.

Everybody in the ACC is currently trying to find ways to beat Clemson. The teams who have shown that they can compete the last couple of years have done so with a hurry up and mostly passing offense.

Syracuse (2 years) and NC State (2017) played Clemson close at least once in the last two seasons. Both teams basically ignore the running game against Clemson with the exception of plays where a pass is expected and they try to slip in a draw.

Out of conference, A&M and scar had success with this approach this season.

Syracuse, Wake, and BC all used a fast-paced offense this season. FSU seems to be hiring Briles which will likely bring a pass-heavy hurry up offense. It will be interesting to see what Louisville and NC State do with new OCs.

Can anybody else see this trend continuing in an attempt to "catch Clemson"?

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Re: ACC turning into Big 12?


Dec 17, 2018, 11:08 AM

What style of football does ACC play now?

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Re: ACC turning into Big 12?


Dec 17, 2018, 11:10 AM

The kind that has caused a lot of turnover this offseason.

I expect the new guys on these staffs to have some sort of plan for how to get to the top.

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The ACC would have to care first


Dec 17, 2018, 11:08 AM

Don’t think the lacrosse and b-ball schools are worried about catching up to us

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Re: The ACC would have to care first


Dec 17, 2018, 11:14 AM

NC State, Louisville, FSU, Miami, & VA Tech at least seem to care.

Regardless of the schools and boosters caring, the coaches of those schools care and want to keep their jobs.

People around here think very highly of Dino Babers based on the last two season and he may have as much or more job security as any other coach in the ACC outside of Dabo. He also missed a bowl game last year but beat Clemson. Pretending that coaches won't try to scheme their program to beat Clemson and at least buy a couple years of job security may be naive.

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It would take more of a culture change


Dec 17, 2018, 11:17 AM

Texas high school football is out of control wide open offense these days. Go look at a bracket of the state playoffs and you'll see several 60-50 77-40 66-63 scores. And most of the Big 12 schools get a lot of their players from Texas, so it's an easy transition to the style. Even though Baylor does not employ that style anymore like they did under Briles

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Re: It would take more of a culture change


Dec 17, 2018, 11:22 AM

I'm not saying it would make them dominant or even good teams by simply making that change.

I just think that everybody has seen that clock control and running the ball hasn't been working the last several years against Clemson.

They are going to try something new that they have seen work. Everyone won't make the change, but if 10 teams do then it will change the look and feel of what we face weekly in the conference.

GA Tech, BC, and Pitt were run heavy teams this year who played Clemson. Each time it turned out very poorly for their offense.

BC tried to move quickly but it wasn't enough. I think more teams will take to the air with their general scheme to try to beat Clemson.

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Re: It would take more of a culture change


Dec 17, 2018, 12:29 PM [ in reply to It would take more of a culture change ]

Yes it is. The cheating with recruiting HS players, putting the family up in an apartment in the school district, getting them a job miraculously 100% of the time working for a booster. It’s laughable. Texas talks a good game about law and order, but the haves in Texas run roughshod over all rules as it suits them. I’ve been watching it for 20 years, could drive you to the apartment complex where the local powerhouse HS has been housing their imported studs 2 decades.

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Re: It would take more of a culture change


Dec 17, 2018, 1:32 PM [ in reply to It would take more of a culture change ]

This is it^

I would look at the HS in the area first to see if that trend works.

Personally, I don't see it.

One: I think that the SE/mid-Atlantic produces better defensive talent that the Texas schools (or at least more athletes are being encouraged/pushed to defensive positions. Different regions place a different emphasis on where talent should go. It is odd, sometimes I look at Tex HS/B12 and feel they dump that half-tier down talent to the D front as more focus goes to stacking offensive talent. So my point is this, where does a team stack their best 3 athletes. B12 is QB, WR, QB (yes, I know). I don't see the SE region doing that. The QB might be part, but you will see more RB/DE in that group.

The funny thing, I still see the ACC building the Bowden "90s FSU" type of ball. Yes, the schemes are a bit different but how the teams are built remains the same. You have a bigger emphasis on speed across the positions, you have a heavier emphasis on non-QB talent-rich skill positions as well as more coaching at that development point, and finally a heavy, HEAVY emphasis on the DE/DT. There is no surprise to me that often our best 'athletes'on the squad are RB/WR/DE. Now, we will get our share of great QB (obviously) but a lot of what we do the QB is a major part of the whole (why we won with KB)... but it will not be an instance of the B12 lining up to see who has the best QB/WR combo.

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Re: It would take more of a culture change


Dec 17, 2018, 1:38 PM

I get what you are saying but my scenario ignored the defensive strategy.

There is no shortage of RBs & WRs in the southeast who can perform in a more wide-open offense. The only area where I can see a question would possibly be QB. Aside from teams who want to run 75% of the time like Pitt, I can't imagine teams are recruiting QBs that they don't expect to be able to throw the ball effectively.


I don't think ACC defense will ever get as bad as the Big 12 for the reasons you laid out. I do think we could see an offensive style shift if people think the way to get to Clemson is through the air.

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Re: It would take more of a culture change


Dec 17, 2018, 2:05 PM

I get you there.

I don't think that teams are trying to get an ineffective QB (save for Georgia Tech these last few years). I think that the talent pool in the region for an effective QB "passer" is a lot thinner for the ACC (NE schools especially) than for the B12 and the DE/DT pool is a lot deeper. Thus it kinda negates the air-raid style a little bit if you don't have a RB to keep the D honest. A mobile QB might be an option as teams had better loses to us with that and a few wins (Dungey and Co). Shoot, we have even used this in the past.

I don't think there is a "strategy"/scheme that could be cooked up in a playbook that would provide any team a long-term success against Clemson... save for the CJP triple-option (it kinda worked for a while). Actually, I think the potential is on the other side of the ball. For example,there is anything Duke could cook up offensively with their talent pool that would work against Clemson long-term? Now, what would be the option defensively...maybe?

I think someone needs to develop a "scary" defensive cohort with deep talent to cause us some concern. In theory, this is what we had to do to finally shed the 2nd fiddle key with FSU. Our D had to become better than their D. Then it was about gathering the skill players to give you options. Still, this builds within the same "Bowden" framework. It is kinda what allowed Miami in 2017 to do and be rather successful to a point. If you are going to win, it will be with a defense combined with a balanced offense. It is not as D oriented as SEC and not as plodding/control focused as the B10

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Re: It would take more of a culture change


Dec 17, 2018, 2:14 PM

I agree with your long-term assessment.

However, what I am suggesting is exactly how Clemson got to where they are now. Getting a dominant defense was the last step for Clemson.

The first step was bringing in Chad Morris, some skill guys, and developing Boyd. Our offense became electric and gave us a chance. Then once recruits realized that we had a chance, we were able to get to an elite level with recruiting on defense.

You can't hide inefficiency on defense. If you are bad somewhere then people will find it. Therefore, unless you can recruit at a high level then you will not have a perennially strong defense.

On the other side of things, you can hide inefficiencies on offense with scheme. Motions, shifts, and pace are just basic ways to create offense without studs at every positions.

There is a much better chance for the lowly ACC schools to create an exciting offense than to create a defense that allows them to compete with the big boys.

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Re: ACC turning into Big 12?


Dec 17, 2018, 11:58 AM

No. That would require all of those schools to find QB’s that are capable of carving up a defense with their arm, all while under very heavy defensive pressure. I don’t think there are 10 QB’s in the whole country that can do that, probably not even 5. I suspect some of these teams are selling out to beat us, which might get them the win against us, but then they turn around and lose 2 or 3 games. Is that really success? It’s probably not going to win the conference and it’s definitely not going to make you a National player. There are no shorts cuts. You gotta be able to run it, pass it and play defense. If you’re gonna be one dimensional you gotta be the biggest, baddest, fastest one dimensional team around.

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Re: ACC turning into Big 12?


Dec 17, 2018, 12:37 PM

My question is not about whether or not teams in the ACC become elite.

Currently, nobody can win the ACC without beating Clemson. Why bother being Pitt and knowing you have no shot to win the league?

Teams must find a way to beat Clemson in order to win the conference.

Side-bonus: Teams don't even go to a bowl but happen to upset Clemson and all of a sudden love their coach because of the team's potential. If you were a new coach would this bonus interest you?

Are you telling me there are only 5 QBs in the country as good as Bentley at scar? I'm not buying that.

I'm not saying this strategy will work long-term, but none of the other strategies have worked even in the short-term.

Also, Clemson is blowing out everyone so worst-case scenario the plan backfires and you get blown out because your QB is not good enough or has an off game. That still leaves you right where you started.

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Re: ACC turning into Big 12?


Dec 17, 2018, 1:16 PM

I don't think it's just the ACC that is moving to this sort of game. This is where teams from every conference is going.

And to be honest, I don't think that's a bad thing for Clemson (or other favorites). The more fast-paced a game is, the more plays that occur. Lesser teams often win because of luck, whether it's good bounces or turnovers. Statistically, things even out, so as more plays occur, luck becomes a smaller and smaller factor over time. With more plays and possessions, the better team should win more often than in games with fewer plays and possessions.

Army played a masterful game against OU earlier this season.They had long drives and limited the number of possessions and almost pulled off the upset. If that game has twice as many plays and possessions, there's no way Army could have kept it close.

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Re: ACC turning into Big 12?


Dec 17, 2018, 1:18 PM

Those are very good points.

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