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YOUR BALANCE
2018, 2019, and 2020
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2018, 2019, and 2020

1
15

Apr 19, 2023, 10:01 AM

2018: 7th overall
5 star - Trevor Lawrence, the GOAT/#1 overall pick
5 star - Xavier Thomas, injured and bust?
5 star - KJ Henry, 4-7 round pick?
5 star - Jackson Carman, 2nd round pick
5 star - Derion Kendrick, transferred/6th round pick
4 star - Justyn Ross, injured/undrafted
4 star - Kyler McMichael, transferred/undrafted
4 star - Josh Belk, transferred/retired
4 star - Mario Goodrich, slow development/undrafted
4 star - Justin Mascoll, career backup
4 star - Mike Jones Jr, transferred
4 star - Lyn J Dixon, transferred
3 star - Jake Venables, retired
3 star - Darnell Jefferies, transferred
3 star - Jordan McFadden, 4-7 round pick?
3 star - Braden Galloway, undrafted
3 star - BT Potter, undrafted?


2019: 12th overall
5 star - Andrew Booth, 2nd round pick
4 star - Frank Ladson, transferred
4 star - Joseph Ngata, injured/4-7 round pick?
4 star - Will Putnam, good player/4-7 round pick?
4 star - Sheridan Jones, slow development/undrafted?
4 star - Tyler Davis, great player/2-3 round pick?
4 star - Joseph Charleston, transferred
4 star - Bryton Constantin, retired
4 star - Taisun Phommachanh, transferred
4 star - Chez Mellusi, transferred
4 star - Jaelyn Lay, transferred
4 star - Vonta Bentley, transferred
4 star - Kane Patterson, transferred
3 star - Logan Cash, retired
3 star - Jayln Phillips, average/undrafted?
3 star - Tayquon Johnson, retired
3 star - Keith Maguire, career backup
3 star - Etinosa Reuben, transferred
3 star - Hunter Rayburn, retired
3 star - Brannon Spector, below average/undrafted?
3 star - Greg Williams, career backup
3 star - Ray Thornton, transferred
3 star - Ruke Orhorhoro, great player/2-3 round pick?
3 star - Lannden Zanders, retired
3 star - Davis Allen, good player/4-7 round pick?
3 star - Mikey Dukes, transferred
3 star - Kaleb Boateng, transferred/RIP
3 star - Aidan Swanson, below average
2 star - Mason Trotter, retired


2020: 3rd overall
5 star - Bryan Bresee, great player but injured/1st round pick?
5 star - Myles Murphy, great player/1st round pick?
5 star - DJ Uiagalelei, transferred
5 star - Demarckus Bowman, transferred
5 star - Trenton Simpson, great player/1st round pick?
4 star - Demonte Capehart, slow development
4 star - Walker Parks, good player
4 star - Fred Davis, transferred
4 star - EJ Williams, transferred
4 star - Tre Williams, injured a lot
4 star - Paul Tchio, transferred
4 star - Mitchell Mayes, average player
4 star - Sergio Allen, transferred
4 star - RJ Mickens, good player
4 star - Kevin Swint, transferred
4 star - Malcolm Greene, injured a lot
4 star - Bryn Tucker, career backup
3 star - John Williams, career backup
3 star - Ajou Ajou, transferred
3 star - Kobe Pace, transferred
3 star - Sage Ennis, career backup
3 star - Tyler Venables, average player
3 star - Trent Howard, career backup



Safe to say that we missed on a lot of guys in those 3 classes, which led to the regression in the program from a perennial power house to a top 15 team. Here's to hoping we have better luck with the 2021, 2022, and 2023 classes. Also, those teams didn't have Garrett Riley at offensive coordinator. So that will certainly help.

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

2

Apr 19, 2023, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the research and post.

Several in the 2018 group did help us out even though they did not have the anticipated success - Thomas made some key plays in his freshmen year, Carman also helped out in the national championship, Ross was phenomenal in the NC, Potter had a great career. In the past years, we have been able to find lower rated (three stars) players who really contributed to the program and got drafted - not so in these three groups other than Potter (2018), Ruke (this may be his year) and Allen (2019). The problem was, as your post points out, many of the five stars and highly rated four starts did not pan out.

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

2

Apr 19, 2023, 11:16 AM

As opposed to these three groups (2018-2020), we did really well with the 2017 group (14 commits, ranked 16) when we got Higgins, Terrell, Rodgers, Etienne and Brice (that one play saved the season).

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

3

Apr 19, 2023, 11:20 AM

The same can be said for the 2016 group where we were ranked 11. Hit the jackpot with D. Lawerence, Lamar, Mullen, Simpson, Simmons, Anchrum, Sakalski (the last three were three stars). seems like we have lost our touch in identifying three stars with potential

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

5

Apr 19, 2023, 11:24 AM

We either completely missed on those recruits or we just failed at developing them. Or it could be a combination of both, I don't know. We have hired new coaches during their careers at Clemson. Maybe the inconsistency in the staff contributed to the lack of development.

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 19, 2023, 12:53 PM [ in reply to Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020 ]

was a far more impressive catch than throw.

Tired of it being viewed otherwise.

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LOL

1

Apr 19, 2023, 1:27 PM

.

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

1

Apr 19, 2023, 12:04 PM


2018: 7th overall
5 star - Trevor Lawrence, the GOAT/#1 overall pick
5 star - Xavier Thomas, injured and bust?
5 star - KJ Henry, 4-7 round pick?
5 star - Jackson Carman, 2nd round pick
5 star - Derion Kendrick, transferred/6th round pick
4 star - Justyn Ross, injured/undrafted
4 star - Kyler McMichael, transferred/undrafted
4 star - Josh Belk, transferred/retired
4 star - Mario Goodrich, slow development/undrafted
4 star - Justin Mascoll, career backup
4 star - Mike Jones Jr, transferred
4 star - Lyn J Dixon, transferred
3 star - Jake Venables, retired
3 star - Darnell Jefferies, transferred
3 star - Jordan McFadden, 4-7 round pick?
3 star - Braden Galloway, undrafted
3 star - BT Potter, undrafted?


2019: 12th overall
5 star - Andrew Booth, 2nd round pick
4 star - Frank Ladson, transferred
4 star - Joseph Ngata, injured/4-7 round pick?
4 star - Will Putnam, good player/4-7 round pick?
4 star - Sheridan Jones, slow development/undrafted?
4 star - Tyler Davis, great player/2-3 round pick?
4 star - Joseph Charleston, transferred
4 star - Bryton Constantin, retired
4 star - Taisun Phommachanh, transferred
4 star - Chez Mellusi, transferred
4 star - Jaelyn Lay, transferred
4 star - Vonta Bentley, transferred
4 star - Kane Patterson, transferred
3 star - Logan Cash, retired
3 star - Jayln Phillips, average/undrafted?
3 star - Tayquon Johnson, retired
3 star - Keith Maguire, career backup
3 star - Etinosa Reuben, transferred
3 star - Hunter Rayburn, retired
3 star - Brannon Spector, below average/undrafted?
3 star - Greg Williams, career backup
3 star - Ray Thornton, transferred
3 star - Ruke Orhorhoro, great player/2-3 round pick?
3 star - Lannden Zanders, retired
3 star - Davis Allen, good player/4-7 round pick?
3 star - Mikey Dukes, transferred
3 star - Kaleb Boateng, transferred/RIP
3 star - Aidan Swanson, below average
2 star - Mason Trotter, retired


2020: 3rd overall
5 star - Bryan Bresee, great player but injured/1st round pick?
5 star - Myles Murphy, great player/1st round pick?
5 star - DJ Uiagalelei, transferred
5 star - Demarckus Bowman, transferred
5 star - Trenton Simpson, great player/1st round pick?
4 star - Demonte Capehart, slow development
4 star - Walker Parks, good player
4 star - Fred Davis, transferred
4 star - EJ Williams, transferred
4 star - Tre Williams, injured a lot
4 star - Paul Tchio, transferred
4 star - Mitchell Mayes, average player
4 star - Sergio Allen, transferred
4 star - RJ Mickens, good player
4 star - Kevin Swint, transferred
4 star - Malcolm Greene, injured a lot
4 star - Bryn Tucker, career backup
3 star - John Williams, career backup
3 star - Ajou Ajou, transferred
3 star - Kobe Pace, transferred
3 star - Sage Ennis, career backup
3 star - Tyler Venables, average player
3 star - Trent Howard, career backup



Safe to say that we missed on a lot of guys in those 3 classes, which led to the regression in the program from a perennial power house to a top 15 team. Here's to hoping we have better luck with the 2021, 2022, and 2023 classes. Also, those teams didn't have Garrett Riley at offensive coordinator. So that will certainly help.


I disagree on some...

I don't think Tyler Venables is avg...

Might be in the minority....

2024 orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

2

Apr 19, 2023, 12:12 PM

Do you think he's better or worse than average?

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

1

Apr 19, 2023, 1:20 PM

He's not better than average—

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 19, 2023, 6:52 PM [ in reply to Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020 ]

I think Tyler is a solid player. Definitely think he is a good bit better than Jake was. No offense to Jake.

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 20, 2023, 10:19 AM

He's for sure better than Jake simply because he's a much better athlete. It's funny because the roles would have been reversed just 20 years ago. Jake would have been more suited for offenses back then, while Tyler would have struggled.

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whew! 33 players quit or transferred over three classes.

2

Apr 19, 2023, 1:02 PM

Seems like a lot on the surface, but wonder how it stacks up against our peer programs ( meaning frequent CFP participants.) ?

Too lazy to research it myself.

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Re: whew! 33 players quit or transferred over three classes.

1

Apr 19, 2023, 1:52 PM

That would be a good topic to research. I would imagine Clemson had less transfer out compared to most.

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And what impact did they have on their new team...***


Apr 19, 2023, 6:10 PM [ in reply to whew! 33 players quit or transferred over three classes. ]



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2019 class really hurt

1

Apr 19, 2023, 1:08 PM

Only two or maybe three elite players out of a 30 man class and a whole bunch of guys that contributed next to nothing.

I'm not sure the 2020 class was a recruiting issue as much as a failure to develop those guys as our top assistant coaches left the program.

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Re: 2019 class really hurt

1

Apr 19, 2023, 1:52 PM

What's even more disappointing about that class is that it followed our national championship season. How we only ended up with one 5 star recruit is crazy to me.

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2020 & 2021

1

Apr 19, 2023, 2:06 PM

They couldn’t come to Clemson, camps were canceled where we saw many of these guys in action!

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We keep getting better & better everyday, in every way!
“The only disability is a bad Attitude” Dabo Swinney!!
Let’s Go Tigers!


This is an under-appreciated factor. Clemson depends on


Apr 19, 2023, 3:01 PM

campus visits much more than many other places like Ohio State and Alabama.

We could say, well that’s a mistake … we should offer lots more guys sight unseen, but we’ve built the program to top tier status by using our culture and our campus as major selling points. These aspects are very attractive to a lot of parents and their sons seem to bind with it too.

Guys like Peter Woods left the state of Alabama and an offer from Nick Saban to come to Clemson because he bought into the things that he experienced first-hand.

When we couldn’t get guys (and their folks) on the campus to immerse them to the Clemson vibe, it hurt us badly.

We’re just now beginning to get things moving again in the right direction.

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Re: 2020 & 2021


Apr 20, 2023, 10:28 AM [ in reply to 2020 & 2021 ]

2019 is the confusing class though. The sheer amount of signees is the reason why we finished as high as we did. Normal numbers would have put that class somewhere between 15-20. That doesn't make sense considering that we had just won the national title.

We missed on some major targets in that class.

Quavaris Crouch (Tennessee), Owen Pappoe (Auburn), Zacch Pickens (South Carolina), Nolan Smith (Georgia), Clay Webb (Georgia), and Jerrion Ealy (Ole Miss).

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Re: 2020 & 2021


Apr 20, 2023, 10:48 AM

Missed out on some major drama as well.

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I may be oversimplifying, but our perceived backsliding on

2

Apr 19, 2023, 2:45 PM

the field is due to just a couple of players. I believe the step from a good team to a great team is not that big...just takes one or two difference makers. The team's problems of 21 and 22 boil down to:



WR - two can't miss prospects who were not great (Ladson, Ngata). Throw in Derion not working out, and there was a significant void in playmaking ability for a couple of years, compounded by a few whiffs during the Covid recruiting years.
QB - a can't miss prospect who single handedly led our team to two of the most soul-sucking seasons that I have witnessed. It wasn't the wins/losses (I've seen bad teams), but the lack of energy/enthusiasm that was pervasive on both sides of the ball that was a huge issue.
DL - couple of five stars with lack of motor that could never really dominate for a myriad of reasons.

Maybe it's more than just some plain old bad luck that I perceive it to be. Maybe it's lack of development of talent. Maybe it's the lack of ability to pick out the shiniest diamond? Lack of coaching ability?.

I dunno.

But I do know that we just need our 5s (and other "can't miss" guys) to be the beasts that each and every evaluator said that they would be...

Go Tigers!

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Very solid post! Good job!***

2

Apr 19, 2023, 4:13 PM



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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 19, 2023, 2:54 PM

I know this wasn’t the point of your post but I don’t think Ngata or Putnam gets drafted. Maybe they sign as free agents.

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 19, 2023, 3:14 PM

You may be right.

Putnam is showing his diversity though as a guard and center.

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Not apples to apples


Apr 19, 2023, 4:17 PM [ in reply to Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020 ]

But if Ross isn’t drafted how in the hell is Ngata?

Heck, I can’t figure these draft guys out. I’d pass on Murphy in the first round if it were my decision.

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Both had serious injury problems

2

Apr 19, 2023, 6:08 PM

but the nature of Ross's injury is serious enough that it could force him to give up football at any time. He also never came close to recapturing his FR form at Clemson. Ngata just had multiple nagging injuries that may not be a problem going forward.

That said, I don't really think Ngata gets drafted. Ross showed an upside that we definitely never saw with Ngata.

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Agree … Ross was absolutely great prior to his injury. If he

2

Apr 19, 2023, 7:32 PM

… if he doesn’t get hurt, he probably gets drafted really high.

But, the nature of his injury and the justifiably timid play he exhibited at times his last year at Clemson certainly entered into the NHL draft perspective.

Ross was much much better than Ngata when comparing their overall Clemson careers.

All Ross needed to do was regain his confidence to be the player he was earlier.

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These numbers are sobering.

1

Apr 19, 2023, 6:59 PM

Hopefully our staff is aware of this and is working hard to remedy it.

Thanks for your in-depth research!

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

1

Apr 19, 2023, 7:09 PM

Great info, I understand you have to sugarcoat some comtent to protect the highly sensitive manic emotions of the board collectively but describing Murphy & Bressee's as "Great player's" is a stretch-—

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 19, 2023, 7:26 PM

All-ACC and 1st round picks deserve to be described as “great players”

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020

1

Apr 19, 2023, 8:28 PM

While I don’t disagree with you, I do not think either lived up to the hype. I guess I expected our defense to dominate and we did not. Just my observation and opinions vary.

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Class of '87


Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 20, 2023, 10:30 AM

Myles was elite against the run, just not an exceptional pass rusher. And we really haven't had an elite edge rusher since Vic Beasley, maybe Shaq Lawson.

Bresee just couldn't stay healthy. He was well on his way to being elite his freshman year. Then the ACL tear his sophomore year and all of the issues he faced this past season.

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Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020


Apr 20, 2023, 10:57 AM [ in reply to Re: 2018, 2019, and 2020 ]

The problem is that the whole team has to be good to be dominant, not just certain players. For example, the defensive linemen may do their job and contain a running back, but if the linebackers don't make the tackle, the defense still gives up yards.

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BV Recruiting Impact


Apr 20, 2023, 11:04 AM

College middle linebacker; Oklahoma DC pedigree; most aggressive, energetic & in-shape coach in any room; front row at UFC with Dana White; get-back coach; Frank Broyles award winner. Replaced by a tiny nice guy video/analytics expert who does not seem to have any background as a player. Cautiously optimistic on Wes, but drop from top DC in the country has to have an impact on recruiting.

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