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Who here supports The Ministry of Truth?
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Who here supports The Ministry of Truth?


Apr 29, 2022, 6:40 PM

Identify yourselves so we know who to arrest down the road for attrocities against humanity

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not that you will actually read this, cause readin' dis hard derp.


Apr 29, 2022, 6:53 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2021/01/11/using-term-orwellian-wrong-george-orwell-explainer-1984/6616511002/


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I've read the book like 5 times


Apr 29, 2022, 6:59 PM

Good try.

I know you don't know how to read or nuance so sorry about that

Try actually reading it.

Or watch Harry Potter. More your speed

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You're not up on the latest: nobody has read Orwell.


Apr 29, 2022, 9:07 PM

Except two people on this board.

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Who's the other...? ;~)***


May 2, 2022, 11:55 AM



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It just seems to be a theme lately,


Apr 29, 2022, 9:54 PM [ in reply to I've read the book like 5 times ]

not sure why there are literally George Orwell posts every 8 hours in here?? I have been patient Xtiger, tongue in Cheek noted, but Orwell was a leftist, so much so he literally fought the fascists in Spain as a soldier with other leftists.

The book warns us of a dumbing down of humanity as a form of authoritarian control, you know, anti science, banning books, changing the meanings of words(alternative facts), making new dumb words, spreading misinformation etc.. This has been the play book out of the extreme elements of GOP, basically where your politics live, for the last 5 years. So excuse me if I accuse Y'all of being a bunch of hypocrites every time you cry 1984. It is even Funnier when Tom makes these posts, but with you it is so darn cute.

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1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 29, 2022, 10:28 PM

I know you would like to maintain the view of "we're-left-and-you're-right, so you're wrong." "Orwell was one of us", the left insists.

Except it doesn't work that way.

The far left and the far right exist at the top of a circle, not on extremes of a line, getting closer together the more extreme one gets. The vocabulary is different, and they may hate each other in a battle for power, but the goals and methods are almost identical. There is nearly a semester's work documenting this as taught by Dr. Charles Dunn, Poli Sci, Clemson Univ. But a shortcut is to consider China, which went from a communist state to a totalitarian/capitalist state nearly overnight, because they didn't have to travel that line: they just stepped over the meeting point.

The more left one claims to be, the more totalitarian he is. It hurts to admit it, I know. A leftist is instead reduced to claiming no one but him has read a very popular book, as are two on this board. But others have read it. And they notice the things predicted in the book coming true, pushed mostly by the left. "Disinformation Governance". Really? I'm sorry, but you have two choices: (1) admit that it is true or (2) somehow keep living in a made up world.

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lol, remind me again which populist movement


Apr 29, 2022, 10:40 PM

in this country was willing to put an end to our 250 year old Republic at the beck and call of wanna be dictator, or which party is hosting its national convention in Budapest Hungary, with an Authoritarian as their Keynote?


https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-conservative-conference-with-hungarys-hardline-leader-reflects-republican-2022-04-05/

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You're grasping so badly you've forgotten what argument


Apr 29, 2022, 11:36 PM

you are making. If you want my agreement that the extremes meet at the top, you have it. No wait, that was my point, wasn't it?

Back to the point, remind me again, which book was it you've read that no one else has?

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No, I have been pretty consistent


Apr 30, 2022, 12:18 AM

in pointing out the Hypocrisy of the far right's obsession in drawing parallels between Orwells writings and this current administration. I have provided two examples and I could give you dozens more, but that would be a waste of time.

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All that might be true. If hypocrisy is the measure of


Apr 30, 2022, 2:36 AM

fault, everybody better buckle up. Or is that a stone you just picked up? If you don't think the left is equally guilty of hypocrisy ... let's see, how does that go? "I could give you dozens of examples but that would be a waste of time."

I was commenting only on your response to someone pointing out that 1984 is clearly coming true in front of us: "Only we on the left have read it or understand it." Spare me. Everyone knows that is a last resort response.

Yes, you grasped at another accusation: "They're hypocrites!" "Harrumph." LOL, yeah, well. This is the lounge. So, back to your original point, if you can stay on that, you and your buddy aren't the only two who have read anything. Shocking, I know, but there it is.

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Don't get distracted by the Orwell debate.


Apr 30, 2022, 12:48 PM

Having a government agency that decides which information is "true" or "false" or appropriate for the masses and regulates it accordingly is wrong and unacceptable. The very idea is alarming. Period. No debate. That is so simple and fundamental to everything America is about, all of these other debates and aruments are secondary or irrelevant.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Don't get distracted by the Orwell debate.


Apr 30, 2022, 1:12 PM

the government has been doing this for decades in the form of consumer protections. Are you gong to also call the Surgeon General Big Brother, how about the consumer protection agency?? What about when the conservative led PMRC started putting labels on explicit music in the 90s, were you crying then??

And apparently, some people(low IQ) need protection from themselves, whether it be their consumer choices, or the information they themselves deem as truthful. I wish this were not the case, but when the lies negatively affect national security, like say, "the election was stolen", it is a problem.. Your party knowingly told this big fat lie and it needs to be called out for it, among other things.

And at the end of the day, this is no more than putting a warning label on a pack of cigarettes, or on an album cover, or applying an R rating to a movie. Nobody is being censored.

.






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I never made any comparison to Orwell. Here's what's going


Apr 30, 2022, 1:25 PM

to happen. Lefties are going to give more and more power to the government, because they are in power at the moment, and they can only see how it benefits them, some maybe even mistakenly believing it benefits us all. Then, when mean old Republicans are in power, and they start using all of that power to their benefit, the left will be screaming bloody murder. Just imagine if we give government the ability to regulate information based on "truthfulness", and in 2024 Trump is reelcted with a republican congress and a right leaning Supreme Court ... he could effectively shut down all news agencies that he's had a beef with and all we'll get is the Trump approved message. How will you like that? Remember, this knife can and will cut both ways. It's not good. The problem isn't health or cigarettes or Orwell - it's having extremely partisan govenment officials regulate the free flow of opinions and information.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: I never made any comparison to Orwell. Here's what's going


Apr 30, 2022, 1:30 PM

they are not regulating the free flow of information, you just can't seem to grasp that. The second DHS arrests somebody over protected speech, or censors a news/ entertainment agency, I will jump on your bandwagon with both feet. agreed?

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Cool, but 1. Provide a link that details exactly what they


Apr 30, 2022, 3:37 PM

will and will not be doing, and 2. Do you deny that partisan politicians who may have a partisan agenda will be involved in deciding what is truthful and what is "mis/disinformation"?

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


I don't think many know the answer to #1 yet...


Apr 30, 2022, 4:55 PM

which is fueling these hot takes from the right and allowing them to define what it is or isn't. It might be an awful idea, or it might just be an extension of what the Government has already been doing in the cyber warfare against Russia's disinformation campaign that has been well-documented.

I've seen it reported it's supposed to only be surrounding misinformation surrounding COVID and elections which are two very well-known targets of Russian disinformation. But we don't know if that's the breadth of what they're doing or why this is different than what we're already doing. Nor do we know what actions they're capable of implementing to fight it.

I agree we need more information on it before we make any conclusions about it.

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Re: Cool, but 1. Provide a link that details exactly what they


Apr 30, 2022, 5:08 PM [ in reply to Cool, but 1. Provide a link that details exactly what they ]

I'll give you the answer.

Had this been announced during a Republican administration, those who are ok with it now would be losing their minds.

And anyone who claims any different is a #### L.I.A.R.

Fact.

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And Republicans would suddenly be okay with it.


Apr 30, 2022, 5:22 PM

"And anyone who claims any different is a #### L.I.A.R."


Such is the way of politics today (and probably forever)

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Re: And Republicans would suddenly be okay with it.


Apr 30, 2022, 5:24 PM

Agreed

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And thus the eventual rise of the Third Party...***


May 2, 2022, 12:07 PM [ in reply to And Republicans would suddenly be okay with it. ]



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They put it under Homeland Security. They dont mess around with


May 1, 2022, 12:39 AM [ in reply to Cool, but 1. Provide a link that details exactly what they ]

warning labels on packages. If one wants to know what they have in mind for the Ministry of Truth, that tells it.

Trump was a bunch of points of fascism, but Disinformation Governance is like warning labels on packaging. And they're not hypocritical. We're in bizarro world.

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It's the hallmark of the left ...


May 1, 2022, 10:44 AM

It's wrong when "the other side" does it, but when we do it, it's justified, or we just call it something else. It's a kind of arrogance that is required required to maintain the delusion.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: It's the hallmark of the left ...


May 2, 2022, 7:51 AM

For the record, I also disagree with this DHS move (and think DHS altogether needs to be disbanded), but this isn't just a "hallmark of the left". The right does it here, too. You've done it. Tulsa's done it. Just about everyone in this thread has done it.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: I never made any comparison to Orwell. Here's what's going


May 2, 2022, 11:07 AM [ in reply to Re: I never made any comparison to Orwell. Here's what's going ]

Please pay attention, TigerBomb.

Seldom are the steps of totalitarians done in one singular giant step. Back to our favorite two totalitarians:

Neither (a) Stalin nor (b) Hitler, at the moment when they came to power, started sending their 'enemies' to (a) Vorkuta or (b) Auschwitz. They started with 'innocent' laws which, once in place, could be easily expanded as the power of (a) and (b) became consolidated within their own respective bureaucracies.

Again, pay attention and don't close your eyes to history. Using a 'the government has always regulated the flow of information' to dispute those of us who are now deeply concerned about Biden's proposed "Misinformation Bureau" is a false argument.

(???) If the "Bureau of Information" represents something that the US Gov't is already doing, then why is it being pushed at all by the Democrats? Just to waste everyone's time?

C'mon ... think. THINK!

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You're absolutely right, RTD


May 2, 2022, 1:15 PM

Which is why when those of us on here pointed out the early warning signs with the Trump admin and fascism, that's because we remembered our history. Those who mocked us may want to read a little more on the topic.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: You're absolutely right, RTD


May 2, 2022, 8:45 PM

The 'warning signs' of Trump = Road to Fascism were hardly explicit. But since you responded, then now you must suffer from another of my long and tedious responses.

Confirming the right of peaceful protest and peaceful public demonstration are anything but Fascist. Charlottesville and January 6? Neither Trump nor his staff / advisors / publicists spoke of nor endorsed violence.

And as far as suggesting that Trump had his 'Sturmabteilung [SA]' ala Hitler to raise Hades 'off the books' ... the one case (and I mean the ONLY ONE) where a somewhat reasonable person might extrapolate that into a 'SA' activity ... was January 6. I don't believe that at all, but I do understand how those who were looking for dirt under Trump's fingernails might be drawn to the Jan. 6 = Sturmabteilung analogy.

The First Amendment was designed by the Founding Fathers to protect free speech ... and especially that speech to which some people may really really dislike.

In contrast, the Biden Admin and the confused 'liberals' of 2022 want to shut down the speech from those with whom they disagree. I.e., profoundly 'anti-First Amendment.'

Gov't suppression of free speech, my good man, is the first tactic of both Hitler ('rightist') and Stalin ('leftist') type regimes.

As far as the Democrats and the Hitler 'Sturmabteilung [SA]' tactic, the huge extent of riots that took place under the guise of "George Floyd" ... and the Democrat MSM media's applause of those riots ... had all of the 'walk like a duck, quack like a duck, and grass through the duck' characteristics of a SA organization.

Remember Kristallnacht? Herschel Grynszpan (the 17 year old Jewish man who was accused of murder) was the Derek Chauvin and Ernst vom Rath (the German diplomat) was the George Floyd. The (staged) vom Rath murder by Gryznszpan was used as the 'justification for the Nazi SA to stage Kristallnacht (which was deliberately misdescribed as being an uprising of 'peaceful German citizens').

Look, I get it that Derek Chauvin was a dip-shizz reckless cop, but he wasn't trying to murder George Floyd. But the Democrat 'brown shirts' used that excuse to riot all over the country and to start the insanely stupid "defund the police" movement.

But as this miserably long post burns itself out, here's the summary:

The Trump Admin = Fascist argument pales when compared to the Biden Admin = Fascist argument.

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Fast response


May 3, 2022, 8:09 AM

You're focusing too much on incidents that happened during Trump that were unrelated to Trump. I'm speaking more on policy, actions, and rhetoric.

And Trump and Trumpists abhor the First Amendment. They would have and wanted to stifle the free press if they had been allowed to do so. The cries of "Fake News!" are parallel to "lugenpresse". In fact, many Trumpists use it.

There's a reason the neo-Nazi movement in American sympathized with Trump. Yes, I know, the Dems are drawing in radical leftists and that's a concern. But let's not pretend the radicalism isn't on the Trump side.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 7:49 AM [ in reply to 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

You're correct in that the political spectrum is indeed a circle. If you go to the far, far left the last two notches are Socialism, then Communism. (Not quite the same thing, Communism's more extreme.)

To the far right, the last two notches are Fascism, then Nazism. Again, Fascism and Nazism have a lot in common, but Nazism is more extreme than Fascism. Nazis are super-Fascists, just as Communists are super-Socialists. They are both authoritarian.

To the right of Socialism - moving back into the realm where democracy can occur - is Democratic Socialism, then Liberalism, then Center-Left, then in the dead-center are the Centrists.

Bernie and AOC purport to be "Democratic Socialists" but I'm not sure they are, though publicly they're full-fledged in support of democracy. I personally think they're further left than that, and I know their followers often are. Given the opportunity to remake America in their image and the idea of democracy be durned, I think they'd take it. Their supporters assuredly would. Bernie Bros tend to be mean screechy little bastages, Social Justice Warrior extremists.

To the right of centrist - getting into conservative territory, but where democracy can still occur - is the Center-Right, then as you keep moving right, the Conservatives, then Nationalist Conservatives...and then, as you move away from democracy into outright authoritarianism, Fascism, then Nazism.

Hungary, right now, is right between "Nationalist Conservative" and "Fascist." The term commonly applied to what's going on in Hungary right now is actually "soft Fascism." Victor Orban calls it "illiberal democracy", which isn't actually a thing, because in this context "liberalism" means "tolerant" and it's hard to have an actual democracy that isn't tolerant, and Hungary is so heavily gerrymandered the opposition has no chance anyway. They're actually a fake democracy, where Russia hovered for years...but Russia's moved well past even that pretense now, has officially arrived at full-on Fascism. Some of the "purification" stuff their talking heads on TV are talking about is starting to get into Nazi territory.

But here's the problem, and where I may have some quibbles with your take on stuff. Because we are getting into Orwell territory...from the right.

The GOP has gone past being merely "conservative" now and has pushed well into "nationalistic conservative"...and is showing massive warning signs of moving past that to full-on Fascism. The GOP increasingly is indistinguishable from Hungary's Fidesz Party, attempting to use structural advantages to disenfranchise the opposition...which is why CPAC had its meeting in Hungary. They regard what Orban's done there as their model. And the drift over the last decade in particular has been absolutely dramatic...and scary for the future of our democracy.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/26/republican-party-autocratic-hungary-turkey-study-trump


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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 7:54 AM

JFC. Absurd.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 9:17 AM

He post's an article from a well known left leaning publication to prove Republicans are headed towards fascism.

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't he the same guy who complains about people posting articles from right leaning sources bashing those on the left?

LOL

meanwhile, it's clearly my side of the aisle pushing for censorship, a trait of fascists. Some of us have fallen hook, line and sinker for the gaslighting.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 11:24 AM

Bullsh!t. Twitter, Facebook, and the other "mainstream" social media sites are virtual town squares, by Elon's own admission. They are also private companies, and exactly like Myspace, if their terms of service and offerings do not jive with the wishes of their users, their users are free to find other platforms. There are no shortage of alternatives.

This is why all this conservative glee (and liberal angst) over Twitter sort of leaves me shaking my head. Twitter is Twitter, and Facebook is Facebook, and Instagram is Instagram, only because of their user bases. Most of that user base does not care to share a platform with people who really hate them, want to endure the kind of screeching BS that's all over this thread - I personally don't care, this is an open site and if you wade on here people are allowed to tell you what they think of you, I certainly do myself - and they especially do not want to share a platform with people who are insulting, harassing, and often threatening them.

So to keep their users happy - and using their platform - any successful communications platform is going to have to do what it takes to keep their users happy. Which means protecting their users from those who seek to insult, harass, and threaten them.

That isn't censorship. It's just the market in action. I don't know how anybody changes that. If Elon lets in all the people Twitter has had to kick out to keep their user base keep using Twitter and stay engaged, their user base will just leave.

The idea that far-right conservatives can "force" their way onto Twitter is ridiculous, any more than some idiot without a mask can force his way into Costco and force them to sell him their inventory in a private club that has the right to make any rules they feel are appropriate under their own roof.

The fact that you think you have that right, and do not see how absurd it is when you've got Parler, Gettr, Gab, Truth Social, etc shows that your main issue is that you think you have the right to be in other people's faces to insult, harass, and threaten them even when you're not wanted there.

That is called "Fascism." Sorry if the term offends you.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 11:30 AM

Sorry, but when people are advocating for Twitter to censor people, that is fascism.

I'm referring to the people advocating for it.

I didnt say Twitter is engaging in fascism, just the people who are in the background advocating it.



And sorry, I think "insults" are indeed free speech. Doesn't mean I agree with that speech but I think it is still free speech.

I no of not one conservative openly ok with "insults" being censored. lmao it's ALL on my side of the aisle, modern liberalism.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 11:34 AM

I find it hilarious that people who write a short essay in almost every response and thinks he is a genius is claiming that people "advocating for censorship isn't engaging in fascism."

Laughable. Hilarious.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 12:05 PM

Dude, I assuredly do not think I'm a genius. I do have, as I've said, some strongly-held opinions I've thought about a lot, I'm a writer so I write real fast and I read everything compulsively, and I am extremely worried about the wild polarization of our society.

My particular concern is that 1/6 will end up being our version of the Beer Hall Putsch of 1923, where Hitler tried to grab power, failed...and wound up in jail. He ended up being elected ten years later anyhow.

It looked awful similar, and I'm worried we're on a similar trajectory.



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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


May 2, 2022, 9:09 PM

As before, I'm still late to the 'Orwell / 1984 / Misinformation Bureau' party ... now I'll put you quozzel to sleep with this long and tiresome response.

On to the topic:

OK, if you stretch it and purposely miss the major details that differentiate the Beer Hall Putsch and January 6, then I can see how those who ignore the finer details can relate the two. But I'm a bit frustrated because I KNOW that YOU KNOW BETTER!

Huge differences (which are apparent to those who dig history):

Hitler / Beer Hall Putsch ... Hitler was advocating violent overthrow, and had a well known paramilitary force that was openly used for violent purposes.

Trump and January 6 ... Trump didn't need a paramilitary force. He had 4 years to cultivate the US Military into his 'personal Sturmabteilung' ... but (surprise surprise!) no 'DJT SA' materialized.

Those who assert that DJT was creating his own private SA are living in a world of fantasy and devoid of facts.

Instead, Trump advocated for peaceful protest for Jan. 6. No violence. No 'paramilitary' force following Trump's command. 1.3 years later ... despite the frantic efforts of the Republican 'deep state' (not a typo, the Republicans have it out for Trump MUCH MORE than the Democrats [who hate DJT enough all by themselves]). There was yelling and plenty of people in clown-like costumes, but the 'violence' was very limited, and those who got into the US Capitol building were either let in or escorted by the Capitol City Police / Capitol guards.

Sorry Mr. Q, but the two aren't even close.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 11:56 AM [ in reply to Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

At no point did I say "it's all on your side of the aisle." Read my prior post.

Bernie Bros/SJW's are mean little bastages, every bit as vicious as MAGA's. Bernie has a real Mean Follower Problem. You shoulda seen the run-up to the Dem primaries. I was kind of amazed at what came outta the woodwork for that. Being a center-right RINO in Dem circles at that point was...not comfortable, I'll leave it at that.

What I've advocated for awhile for Twitter/Facebook/etc to do is a standardized system of content moderation. I've posted the so-called "Santa Clara Principles" a few times as a proposal, because I do think Twitter could benefit from reigning in their more zealous leftists and allowing conservative voices, you know, an actual voice...also without fear of harassment, doxxing, intimidation, or just arbitrary bans because some SJW mod just plain didn't like them and put out the boot.

I think it'd drag things a lot more civil, tamp out a loud of the crazy, and turn it more into the "town square" concept most of us who are there to actual talk about stuff wanna see.

For instance, look at this thread. I'm here to talk to the likes of you mostly because you have a brain in your head and you advocate your position intelligently. Keowee and Tigermanac are just throwing personal insults without any form of intelligent response, and throwing out TD's like they mean anything and aren't just imaginary and utterly meaningless...which means nothing to me. It's a message board, I could care less what people think of "quozzel". True story - I made that login handle up way back in the day because I was trying to find a unique AOL login nobody else had. (Try it sometime, it takes some doing...usually you'll wind up with, you know, Clemsonfan1851 because 1850 people have had that login handle before you. Even if your login handle is BlueberryPancakeAfficiando or DiscombobulatedPhilosopher...it doesn't matter, somebody's beaten you to it.)

But on a social media platform, handles are a lot less throwaway, and insults and intimidation have a really chilling effect. People don't willingly want that stuff around them.

I personally think it reinforces the whole "safe space" thing and allows echo chambers to form, but the reality is, a lot of folks have thin skins, too. Again, here's where the whole Santa Clara Principles thing would improve platforms, IMHO, because they provide a framework for civility while still allowing opposing points of view. Again, if you haven't seen 'em, this seems like a productive proposal, at least to me:

https://santaclaraprinciples.org/


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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 12:02 PM

Q, you didn't say that. I'm saying it.


Those who are advocating for censorship is mostly my side of the aisle, liberals. I'm a Democrat.

I rarely have seen a Republican advocating for censorship on Twitter. I do however, see democrats on a daily basis advocating for censorship. (And there are literally hundreds of examples of that just this week)

I'm not referring to Twitter, the company. I'm referring to people who post to Twitter.

And I'd bet my house, censorship will get worse. It won't get better. Something we say today may be banned tomorrow.

It's ridiculous.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 12:10 PM

Well, one thing that does happen is if a site gets too nanny'd up and SJW mods get crazy is, people just vacate it. Entire reddit subs have turned into ghost towns because of overzealous mods.

It doesn't abolish the communities, mind. Keep in mind the wonderful thing about cyberspace is, it's infinite. Short of physically chopping off access to the Internet, you can't stop people from building their "virtual town halls" where people can say whatever they want with impunity.

That's the reason I was sort of shocked to see Elon buying Twitter for $44 billion, and all the celebration and hand-wringing that resulted. Twitter's just an imaginary virtual space. If he thinks the user base is his to do with what he will, Elon really just did end up buying Myspace. It's hard to imagine he's that dumb.

The best - and most successful - platforms are going to be the ones that enforce civility while maintaining inclusiveness. People can "advocate censorship" all they want...how do you effectively police an infinite domain where people can build new town squares at will if they don't like how the old one is going?

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What is your take on what is happening in Florida?


Apr 30, 2022, 4:44 PM [ in reply to Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

and other states where the state governments are literally banning/censoring textbooks because of things they think are socially wrong in the book?

If you're so very upset and random users of twitter advocating for censorship, seeing these state governments actually doing it must enrage you.


Note: This also might go against your "it's ALL on my side of the isle, modern liberalism." That's the problem with absolutes.

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Re: What is your take on what is happening in Florida?


Apr 30, 2022, 5:43 PM



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1.) That's not why the math textbooks were banned


Apr 30, 2022, 6:40 PM

Many were banned for "social-emotional learning" aspects that Florida Republicans dislike for...reasons.

2.) You seem confused about what is or isn't free speech. Twitter had every right (as any corporation does) to allow or limit what is said on its platform. If the Government doesn't allow them that opportunity then it's a free speech issue. It's why Musk is able to buy it and change those rules if he desires. It's why Tigernet doesn't allow profanity and other words on this site and why they can ban users from posting. If the government suddenly came in and said they didn't have that right, then it's a free speech issue.

3.)You can be censored for things outside political ideology. You gave examples of this (obscenity/inappropriate sexual content) earlier. Look up the definition, it includes exactly what you dismissed.

4.) I was responding to 1851's post.

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Re: 1.) That's not why the math textbooks were banned


Apr 30, 2022, 7:42 PM



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Yet, you're the only one that keeps bringing that stuff up..


Apr 30, 2022, 7:51 PM



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Re: Yet, you're the only one that keeps bringing that stuff up..


Apr 30, 2022, 9:01 PM



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Re: Yet, you're the only one that keeps bringing that stuff up..


Apr 30, 2022, 10:24 PM



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That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 1, 2022, 10:06 AM [ in reply to Re: 1.) That's not why the math textbooks were banned ]

You're straw manning hard.

You also advocated on here that the government should censor rap music.

Please don't claim to be an advocate against censorship. You just want the views and language you agree with protected but not the other stuff you dislike.

And no, no one is discussing obscenity right now.

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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 1, 2022, 10:51 AM



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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 2, 2022, 7:55 AM

-You called for government intervention into the content of rap music. That would lead to censorship.

-I didn't defend making threats against others. What I argued was that the claims specific songs made threats weren't valid, and the courts agreed.

-Deweather was addressing the math books. I don't think anyone here advocates sexually explicit books in elementary schools. I know there was a debate about a particular book in a high school library, and here's my overall point with that: Those who fought to have it removed screwed up. They made teens who had no idea the book existed (or cared to go poking around the library) flock to the Internet to look it up. People who want to ban books in high school have a very poor understanding of how teens work. When you tell them they can't look at something, they'll seek it out--especially with our technology today.

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You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 2, 2022, 11:51 AM



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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 2, 2022, 1:11 PM

So I was mistaken that you want the government to regulate rap lyrics?

Also…you all are equating the “censorship” of adults inciting illegal activities with the protection of minors who by definition do not have capacity to make these decisions for themselves, both biologically and legally.


How am I equating those two things?

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You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 2, 2022, 1:50 PM



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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 2, 2022, 2:10 PM

I think we're arguing semantics. Even if it's keeping obscene material away from kids, by definition, that's still censorship. Like if TNT has to dub in another word for a curse word on a movie its showing. It's a form of censoring.

I've never met someone who was in favor of absolutely no rules. I guess it appears Musk is that way.

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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 2, 2022, 2:25 PM



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Re: That's not what he's addressing at all.


May 2, 2022, 2:56 PM

So you think kids should be exposed to anything and everything?

I never said that nor did anything in my post indicate I was in favor of that. I didn't anything else past this line in your post. Please correct your post.

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You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Kids becoming 'desensitized' is exactly why SEL is important


May 2, 2022, 5:32 PM [ in reply to Re: That's not what he's addressing at all. ]

But I am curious how many other people think like you that teaching empathy in schools along with other studies is somehow a bad idea? I also wonder if the responses would fall along politically ideological backgrounds.

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One thing I've learned about censorship


May 1, 2022, 10:04 AM [ in reply to Re: What is your take on what is happening in Florida? ]

People only think it's censorship when it stifles a view they agree with. When they don't agree with that view, it's somehow twisted around to be an altruistic motive and that it's not "censorship".

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You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

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Re: What is your take on what is happening in Florida?


Apr 30, 2022, 6:54 PM [ in reply to What is your take on what is happening in Florida? ]

I said above "mostly my side of the aisle."

If I wrote what you quoted somewhere else, I misspoke.

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Fair enough.***


Apr 30, 2022, 6:58 PM



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Re: What is your take on what is happening in Florida?


Apr 30, 2022, 6:58 PM [ in reply to Re: What is your take on what is happening in Florida? ]

But, ill add, IF they're banning required books for grade schoolers, I'd look at it differently.

Sorry, but if parents are up in arms about what their CHILDREN are being required to read, im taking the parents side.

(Note: I haven't paid much attention to Florida except for the Disney stuff)

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How many parents need to be up in arms though?


Apr 30, 2022, 7:18 PM

I feel like it's on a case-by-case basis and don't think I can go along with absolute thinking in either direction.

Here's a quick article explaining the issue with the math books I referenced:
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/2022/04/29/ron-desantis-math-books-rejected-social-emotional-learning-sel/9541420002/


And note, I'm not saying there may be a legit reason some of the books were cut, but it's more about the reasoning and amount behind the cutting that's problematic for me and many others.

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Re: How many parents need to be up in arms though?


Apr 30, 2022, 7:48 PM

I'm not sure but either way, I'll take the parents side.

I (unlike many) think parents should have a say. (And it shouldn't be this opt out crap, make it opt in for parents that are ok with it)

Much like I (and I assume you as well) don't want my kids being taught about Christianity at school, parents have the right to disagree in other areas. Just my opinion and again I haven't followed this close enough to be firm.

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Re: How many parents need to be up in arms though?


Apr 30, 2022, 7:54 PM

What I do find funny tho about what little bit I've followed is the fact that some of the people advocating that parents shouldn't have much of a say are childless.

I have researched a few people on Twitter and found they have no kids. Well, your opinion means squat. Get back when you actually have a say. (Not you, the random posters on twitter)

As far as me, I have two sons, one is 13 and the other is 11. My 13 year old is responsible enough and smart enough to handle some "questionable" lessons. My 11 year old is special needs and I feel like he shouldn't be taught things that other 11 year olds are taught. And I'll feel the same when he is 13.

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I think most think and believe parents have a say


Apr 30, 2022, 8:00 PM [ in reply to Re: How many parents need to be up in arms though? ]

but when has 100% of people ever agreed on anything?

What if one parent is against teaching math of any kind? Should the school take out all math classes or does it make more sense to have that parent opt-out and homeschool their kid or find an alternative? Obviously, that scenario is unlikely to happen, but I'm just bringing it up to illustrate the underlying point.

How much of an assumed "opt-in" is there when parents place their children in public schools in the first place?

But in the case of the math books, it's not even the parents that were disagreeing. It was the Florida Department of Education/Government based on DeSantis' decree that banned the books.

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Re: How many parents need to be up in arms though?


May 1, 2022, 11:13 AM [ in reply to How many parents need to be up in arms though? ]



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Re: What is your take on what is happening in Florida?


May 2, 2022, 11:24 AM [ in reply to What is your take on what is happening in Florida? ]

Jumping in here because ... (1) the premise of your question is wrong and (2) the responses thereof your post are also off base.

State Governments 'banning' textbooks which are used in public schools is not a matter of censorship.

Both the State Government and all of its departments (for example, that State's Dept. of Education) are all part of the same organization ... i.e., the State Government.

An internal dispute between State Government and that State's Dept. of Education is an internal matter.

If the boss of the organization says to one of its various department heads that "you'll do what I say" ... as long as it is legal ... then the department head will "do what the boss says."

That's not censorship in the same sense as when one organization shuts down the speech from that of an entirely separate organization.

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Sorry, but it is censorship.


May 2, 2022, 5:46 PM

Now, you could argue that they have the right to censor and, actually, "censorship" in a requirement because they have to choose select numbers of math books out of probably hundreds of submissions and that naturally limits what a student sees based on State sanctioned criteria. That's true. The argument is probably better served by narrowing it to say that the reasoning, in this case, for the censorship is what I and many others (including parents/voters of Florida) have problems with.

No one would probably care if they didn't select certain math books because of errors or they were bad at actually teaching the subject. That happens all the time. No, in this case, it was what the State perceived (based on DeSantis' decree) as "inappropriate" topics like SEL (empathy/emotional teaching) and CRT without explanation or examples of what was in the math books. That reads like a decision based on political ideology and not actually based on the content of the books nor what is best for the students. The fact they weren't transparent about it (when transparency is a major talking point for DeSantis) made it all that much clearer as to the motive behind the banning.

So, yes they have a right to "censor" the books (in choosing what math books to provide in schools) but it's equally right to point out the issues with how they selected the books.

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Re: Sorry, but it is censorship.


May 2, 2022, 6:27 PM



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Re: Sorry, but it is censorship.


May 2, 2022, 9:26 PM [ in reply to Sorry, but it is censorship. ]

Thanks for your smart and thoughtful response Mr. Deweather.

No surprise here, but I've got to agree with T3Tiger® with regard to State of FL's decision (not just their prerogative) censor the math school books.

Digression (just to make you suffer): In the 'private conversations' of my management to which I've been privy, they view many USA companies as struggling to find 'home grown' talent in the STEM world because too few Americans (especially those who are younger than 40 years old) are woefully deficient in their math skills. Not just my employer, but the various USA companies with which I interact must get ex-pats from the EU or Eastern Europe or Middle East / India / APAC to handle the 'math' centric jobs.

(How do I know this? OK ... I'll fess up. I work for the big German company with an international presence ... Madrigal Electromotive ... in their Los Pollos Hermanos subsidiary in a finance role. Yes, changing a $50 at the drive through window is PRESSURE, I'll tell you what!)

Back to the topic:

State of FL apparently recognizes the problem with math competency is hurting America (and FL). Getting the social empathy stuff out of math books is getting rid of a needless distraction / diversion.

Math isn't fun for everyone, just like cleaning up after a nasty #2 isn't fun. But those who can't do both the math and the cleanup, they are at big risk of 'missing' the American dream.

Good move by DeSantis. I agree that it could be characterized as censorship, but its not a violation of the First Amendment.

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I find it hard to believe teaching empathy harms math scores


May 2, 2022, 11:57 PM

but if it does, you need to establish it. You can't just assume it because you are against empathy being taught in schools (which is a remarkable belief in itself).

In other words, it's just as likely that math scores could be WORSE without the SEL training. We don't know what impact the SEL components have on overall learning. I will say I have a hard time believing that they are teaching SEL instead of math concepts so I'm not sure how they could hinder math scores.

To use your digression as an example though, next time you're in those private conversations see how they view "self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, relationship skills and responsible decision-making" in employees and whether or not those aspects of an employee are important. I'd be willing to bet they value those on equal levels as math ability. And even if they don't value it at an equal level, ask if they'd want those aspects in citizens of a society they lived in. And that's exactly what SEL is supposed to instill in students.

I think both SEL and math can coexist without harming the other, and in fact, may help one another. But if there's information that says different I'm willing to look it over.

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Re: I find it hard to believe teaching empathy harms math scores


May 3, 2022, 12:30 PM



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What is the role of education in society? Why is it valued?


May 3, 2022, 5:27 PM

Is it not to build a better society through not only skills like math/reading but also critical thinking and emotional intelligence? Does that not give society a better all around person? Do you believe empathy is a core component of a well realized human being? Do you believe that empathy is implicit in all of us and thus, may need some explicit instruction? Is that not the basis of Christian dogma and the Golden Rule? I'd argue these point to the inevitability of empathetic teaching. It's unavoidable. School is probably the most important place where a child develops their social and interpersonal skills so I can't wrap my head around the idea of ignoring that fact.

As a specific example, it's very common for children to feel frustrated at doing math so doesn't it make sense for schools to try and address those feelings? Don't we want children learning to handle the frustration and persevere? It's not like a child can turn on and off their emotions at will so at school they are these robotic automatons and at home they turn back into human beings. That's all SEL says that it does, and it's bizarre to me see you and other Republicans arguing against it on the basis that its directive is wrong. I can understand arguing at the tactics or methods it goes about teaching the ideas, but to be against the base concept? That makes no sense to me.

You of all people should understand how much emotional intelligence plays in critical thinking and why it's important for a society to address that in its children.

But all of that is a digression to the point that I seriously doubt SEL interferes with students ability to learn Math in school (and in fact, with my example above about teaching them how to learn to handle the frustration of learning math, I see a better connection to arguing it HELPS students learn math). But, I'm open to seeing any data you or others have that show it actually hinders their learning.

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Re: I find it hard to believe teaching empathy harms math scores


May 3, 2022, 11:18 PM [ in reply to I find it hard to believe teaching empathy harms math scores ]

Poor you Mr. Deweather ... I'm BAAACK.

As for my employer (really and truly, a big multinational firm based in the EU, their public rhetoric is all full of warm and fuzzy 'we are the world' type rhetoric.

Why is that? It's good for doing business in the countries that 'host' them.

But words are cheap (even if they are highly polished and spoken [and well written in press releases and via participation 'town hall' type debates).

In private conversations, they express their concerns and reluctance to hire USA educated kids. It's not that no USA kids get hired, but too often their STEM skills are not up to snuff, and the company must educate them further.

But the actions of my employer (and other EU [and APAC] based companies) reflect a strong preference to hire non-Americans for the STEM jobs.

The SEL stuff can be incorporated into the HS psychology and history classes. Include SEL in the extra-curriculars such as band / chorus / thespian stuff.

But the American school system desperately needs to leave the SEL stuff out of HS math, physics, and chemistry.

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Guns don't kill people


Apr 30, 2022, 11:38 AM [ in reply to Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

Violent people kill people

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


May 1, 2022, 11:19 AM [ in reply to Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

You are so full of chit. So, you are saying the users of all social media are crazy libs and progs and the bosses of social media have a duty to cater to them.

W T F do think the demographics of the country are?

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 11:51 AM [ in reply to Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

Notice also how he is ok with censoring "insults" yet he engages in insults? LOL

Just another one of those who is ok with censoring "insults" he doesn't agree with. The insults he dishes out is a ok though.

Many on my side don't see the dangerous slope we're on.

Only two things I'm to the right on and that's free speech and gun rights.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 12:08 PM [ in reply to Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]



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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 12:28 PM

If you're saying that the far left tends to believe excessively in its own virtue, and think it has the right to push its views - often with Thought Police-type tactics - on others...well, yeah. That's always been the critique of the far left. They put principles (often goofy, not well-thought-out principles) ahead of people...and as such the far left tends to be attractive to people with a lot of self-righteousness who also hate other people.

The critique of the far right is that it's overly tribal, and extraordinarily hostile to anyone not strictly in their tribe...and prone to elevating strongmen who do whatever they want to whoever they want, whenever they want to do it...and the law isn't worth the paper it's written on.

As ever, the trick is balance. And that's always been the hard part.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 1:09 PM [ in reply to Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

Republicans have proven that they want overturn elections that they LOST. Prove me wrong. I'll wait.

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 2:11 PM

Al Gore says hi

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Re: 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it?


Apr 30, 2022, 2:42 PM

You were saying

https://www.history.com/topics/us-politics/al-gore-concedes-presidential-election-video




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Can you cite...


May 1, 2022, 9:58 AM [ in reply to 1984 just hits too close to home, doesn't it? ]

The specific details from the book that you think are being actively applied today in America by our government?

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He read it 'like' five times, he's an expert.***


May 1, 2022, 5:44 PM



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X? What do you say?


May 2, 2022, 7:55 AM [ in reply to Can you cite... ]

Anyone? xtiger, can you give me specific examples?

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This is some amazing spin


Apr 30, 2022, 9:25 AM [ in reply to It just seems to be a theme lately, ]

kudos to you for reaching so hard your arm almost pops off.

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Re: It just seems to be a theme lately: "Labels" vs. Action


May 2, 2022, 8:08 PM [ in reply to It just seems to be a theme lately, ]

Apologies for being so late to the Orwell party, Mr. Tigerbalm1®, but if late is the same to you and your ilk is never, then no harm done to you.

It's fascinating that whenever the lefties get trapped in a logical argument, the deflection of 'labelling' commences as the lefties' "proof" that their argument is correct.

Orwell was a liberal (for the time frame of his writings) when illiberal states such as USSR (Communist with 'leftist' label) and Hitler's Germany (Nazi / Fascist with 'rightist' label) were (1st) promoting and (2nd) enforcing speech police policies.

It doesn't matter at all that Orwell fought in the Spanish Civil War against the Fascists. He was opposed to the suppression of free speech, and considered the Fascists 'right-wingers' to be the bigger threat. But, being intellectually honest, he railed against the Communist 'left-wingers' when it became obvious that the lefties were engaged in exactly the same practices as the righties.

But because the intellectually lefties choose the lazy way out via use of labels as the end-all of intellectual thought, the lefties fail to exercise logic and recognize that their labels fail to distinguish between the actions of Lefty Communists vs. Righty Fascists.

Back to the Orwell topic:
(A) You choose to label Orwell as a 'leftist' because his liberal speech at the time was a 'liberal' action.
(B) Yet, when today's 'rightists' reference Orwell's writings as being a relevant argument against Biden's "Disinformation Bureau,' you seem to be intellectually incapable of recognizing that Orwell's liberal philosophies are actually far closer to the 2022 'rightists' that you loathe.

(***) Your use of labels as a substitute for logical argument ... and as an excuse to refrain from circumspection ... expose you as being un-serious when discussing a profoundly serious topic.

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Well, then, you'll know your comparison doesn't work***


May 1, 2022, 10:49 AM [ in reply to I've read the book like 5 times ]



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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

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Silly liberals live in their own little world.***


Apr 29, 2022, 9:08 PM [ in reply to not that you will actually read this, cause readin' dis hard derp. ]



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Face it


Apr 30, 2022, 5:14 PM

Y’all created this mess when you started prophesies about JFK Jr. miraculously showing up at Dealey Plaza there in Dallas, or that the Cosmic Pizza Shop had cages full of little kids in its basement tunnels being served up to monsters created by Bill and Hillary.

The there’s everything Trump and Giuliani touched related to the 2020 election which led to Jan 6.

So many lies, all attempting to destabilize the country. You made this bed.

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Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


Apr 30, 2022, 7:32 PM

Meant to unite the world like Al Gore with An Inconvenient Truth and Obama with “You can keep your doctor.”

Divisive falsehoods totally started with Trump, that POS.

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


Apr 30, 2022, 8:19 PM

Funny, I didn't see a mob of Bill & Hillary, Obama, or Al Gore supporters busting into the capitol to hold up the electoral college in attempt to prevent an election result.

Why is that?

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


Apr 30, 2022, 8:59 PM



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Yet none of those lies from the left


May 1, 2022, 12:19 PM

came remotely close to 1/6, the ugliest day in domestic US politics since Ft Sumter was attacked in 1861. There’s lies, then there are Big Lies. You can’t even pretend to conflate.

Y’all are still in denial that this was the worst domestic crisis since then and you need to come to grips, admit that it happened, and that you have a problem. It’s like talking sense to an addict that can’t even think to back away from the mountain of blow they’ve been nursing.

“I'm not getting in the car, Tim," Pence said, in response to Giebels' insistence that he enter the armored vehicle. "I trust you, Tim, but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car."

Had he gotten in the car, we could have easily had a Trump dictatorship thrust upon us.

https://www.newsweek.com/pence-refusing-get-secret-service-car-jan-6-chilling-raskin-1700341


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Re: Yet none of those lies from the left


May 1, 2022, 12:42 PM



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Re: Yet none of those lies from the left


May 1, 2022, 2:01 PM

What was the root cause of J6 and who was responsible? I'll wait.

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Re: Yet none of those lies from the left


May 1, 2022, 3:57 PM



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Re: Yet none of those lies from the left


May 1, 2022, 6:37 PM

You didn't answer the question because you know the truth is a quick in the nuts for you. J6 happened because a sitting POTUS misinformed his base that he lost the election. DADDY is 100% percent responsible for the riot where the the mob wanted to hang the VPOTUS. Lol. Own it!!!!

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Re: Yet none of those lies from the left


May 2, 2022, 2:49 PM [ in reply to Yet none of those lies from the left ]

Yep, that's all you got and it's a big nothing burger. If it is anything, it is more akin to the Boston Tea Party.

I'm sure the Brit's accounts of the Tea Party are along the lines of your accounts of Jan 6th.

You bosses are so busy waving the Jan 6th flag in your face that you have no ability to see anything else that is actually real instead of made up and contrived.

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


May 1, 2022, 6:53 PM [ in reply to Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths ]

So, lies are ok as long as a mob doesn't attack D.C.? Is that what you're going with?

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


May 1, 2022, 9:39 PM

It's exponentially more serious when the misinformation involves an attempt to hang the VPOTUS. Do you not agree?

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


May 1, 2022, 6:56 PM [ in reply to Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths ]

^^^and this is why people are skeptical of any kind of commission.

Well, this lie isn't that bad a lie. Well, this omission isn't that bad.

B.S. a lie is a lie is a lie. An omission is an omission is an omission.

And people believe those in charge wouldn't have the same kind of thoughts as some of us on tigernet do.

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


May 2, 2022, 8:43 AM

You don't realize how much of a wake up call J6 was and what a threat it was to our democracy. And it was organized and fueled by the intentional disinformation by a sitting POTUS. But it's a nothingbuger, correct?

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


May 2, 2022, 8:53 AM

Hey #######, maybe read my post history. I've never defended January 6.

I just don't feel the need to rehash it day after day on tigernet.

But, at the end of the day, if a commission is created to combat lies and misinformation, it should combat ALL lies and misinformation. It isn't that hard to understand.

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Re: Yes, up until that point it was nothing but pure truths


May 2, 2022, 9:52 AM

You just want J6 to go away, and then whine and cry about disinformation. LOL.

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Re: Face it


May 2, 2022, 9:50 PM [ in reply to Face it ]

Use of labels as an alternative to substantive logic doesn't help your argument.

Especially so in the example which you have used here.

Relating the JFK / Dealey plaza murder being a Republican narrative ... and by that association the 2020 Republicans (being in your view) are identical to the 1963 Republicans ... doesn't bolsters neither your argument nor your credentials.

Republicans of 1963 (i.e., Dwight Eisenhower / Richard Nixon types) were 'big global stage' Republicans. Democrats were 'look out for the little guy / protect the organized labor workforce' party.

Democrats of 1963 (both elected officials and the Democrat voters) were split between rampant racists and liberal anti-racists. Republican voters of more recent times are more of an isolationist and 'live and let live' crowd. And oh yea, the elected Republican officials of today (with DJT, Desantis, R.Paul, Ron Johnson, and Charles Grassley and a few others being the exceptions) are profoundly lazy and legislatively useless; whereas the Republicans of the 1960s were actually quite vigorous.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Say what you want about the 2020 Democrats (elected officials and voter base) and ditto for the 2020 Republicans, but respectively they are about as similar to their 1963 ancestors as Mercury and Pluto.

Next time, don't default to labels to make your argument. You're better than that.

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Disappointed


May 1, 2022, 10:00 AM

I thought you were going to link another video that requires a log in and account, and you and some others were going to pretend you actually watched it.

As I asked Tulsa, can y'all cite the specific details in the novel that you feel mirror what's happening in America and how our government treats its citizens?

Remember that just last week, you were cheerleading the government clamping down on a private company for its political beliefs.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


The NSA can (if they want) know EVERY aspect of your


May 2, 2022, 3:16 PM

internet activity... DHS can (if they want) 'rendition' you ANYTIME to ANYWHERE for HOWEVER LONG without Habeas Corpus via the Patriot Act (cute name).

If you've read 1984, you'll know the correlations.

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Re: The NSA can (if they want) know EVERY aspect of your


May 2, 2022, 8:04 PM

As I stated, I don't like this either, but no, it's not hit 1984 yet.

The Ministry of Truth forced citizens to obliterate any evidence of a person's existence and would do the same to those who spoke of him or her. Besides, it was really the Ministry of Love that would "rendition" you.

We there yet? Such hyperbolic comparisons hurt the criticism. This action by DHS is bad, but let's criticize it on realistic terms. You also know that they're just repeating something Tucker or Fox said; 1984 gets thrown out a lot by the extreme right without really understanding it.

However, how about we just play it safe and abolish DHS and the Patriot Act?

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Their first album was a little too "death metal" for me.


May 2, 2022, 11:14 AM

lots of screaming.

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Just pointing out again in the mega thread...


May 4, 2022, 7:57 AM

That xtiger never did come back to give us specific examples from 1984 and it directly correlates to this issue.



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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


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