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YOUR BALANCE
Rather than college athletes being paid
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Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 11:26 AM

in some form or fashion, it makes more sense to have a minor league system for football and men's basketball.

This way, if they want to go straight from high school to the NFL, they can. And if they aren't ready for the NFL, they can go to the minor leagues. Professional teams that draft them can decide whether they go straight to the pros or send them to the minors. Sort of like baseball, but without the college option.

This way, they can be paid what the market feels they deserve, and they don't have to fool with going to class and all of that stuff.

The truly elite players would then be able to skip college, since many of them aren't interested in an education or the college experience anyway.

For those who do want to be a student-athlete, they can still go to college to play football or men's basketball, with the understanding that they must turn pro to make money.

Everybody wins, most importantly the colleges and universities that are supposed to be about education first.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Valid point


Jun 21, 2021, 11:37 AM

Baseball and basketball are pretty much there.

Football will join them. Only difference is the NFL likes things as they are. Time to adapt.

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Football is the only sport that has no Avenue


Jun 21, 2021, 11:40 AM

For a player to go pro and skip college if they want to compete at the top level.

Basketball players can go to the G league or overseas.

Every other sport has a plethora of pro options outside of college.

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True, but I don't view the G League as an attractive


Jun 21, 2021, 11:47 AM

option for most players, especially if they have the option of going to college.

I don't know how to make it a better option, other than colleges stating that they will remove perks such as scholarships, free training, etc., and we know that won't happen because big time college programs want to keep their programs as profitable as possible.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 11:42 AM

Thats a great idea.

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 11:49 AM

Agree 100%

Classes are already filled with those who really do not want to be there.

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 11:51 AM [ in reply to Re: Rather than college athletes being paid ]

Agree 100%

Classes are already filled with those who really do not want to be there.

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Well duh... problem is the nfl has no motivation


Jun 21, 2021, 11:52 AM

UTo try. They are fine with using colleges as thier minor league.

Keep in mind.. the 3 years out of high school is a NFL requirement..not a NCAA one.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


The problem is that colleges have no motivation


Jun 21, 2021, 11:56 AM

to prioritize academics.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


There are procedures in place to punish schools


Jun 21, 2021, 12:39 PM

For academic negligence ..but I don't know if they are enforced.

I agree though.. schools should cowboy up and get rid of special admittance rules. No more scholarships.

All students should be accepted/ rejected on the same academic requirements.

Hold open tryouts for all students who want to play sports as an extra curricular activity.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Depends on the player


Jun 21, 2021, 3:07 PM

There are a handful of players every year that WOULD be drafted straight from high school----Clowney, Trevor, hell Bresee likely, too.

Of course there are also players including first-rounders who play 4 years & use college to CREATE that NFL opportunity (Simmons, Renfrow, et al.), but Trevor Lawrence likely would have been taken by a pro team out of high school and then, say, sat the bench for a year or two or three BUT he'd be getting paid & they'd have a contract.

I'm not saying I love it, & it definitely presents more complications, but Lebron James was on the cover of Sports Illustrated before going pro... and telling kids to stay in school. Why couldn't/shouldn't that be the same for a talent like Trevor?

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True. But the nfl will not open the flood gates


Jun 22, 2021, 8:17 AM

Just for a couple kids who could be ready to play.

They benefit greatly from the current model

How many clemson fans bought Jacksonville ...and houston jerseys?

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Also true


Jun 22, 2021, 3:22 PM

They benefit greatly from the current model, no question.

They'll benefit from a future model as well.

Still wouldn't surprise me if the league has to change in response to the Supreme Court & NIL rulings, particular for some of the top 5-star recruits. Clemson will still be putting out first-round talent for us to buy merch for their respective teams regardless, I think (I honestly don't expect Clemson to drop like a rock but instead remain at the top or even THRIVE under these new rules).

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Re: Well duh... problem is the nfl has no motivation


Jun 21, 2021, 4:19 PM [ in reply to Well duh... problem is the nfl has no motivation ]


UTo try. They are fine with using colleges as thier minor league.

Keep in mind.. the 3 years out of high school is a NFL requirement..not a NCAA one.


And its collectively bargained in the NFL. The Player's Association is voting to bring in more competition for their already highly competitive jobs. The legality of this rule was already challenged once before when Maurice Clarett first wanted to go pro, and the NFL won.

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It also changed before


Jun 21, 2021, 4:33 PM

Remember, Herschel Walker went pro...but not to the NFL... because the NFL was going to make him wait & he didn't have to in the USFL.

I'm over-simplifying it, but like this whole thing with the old rich white guys taking all the money, we just "got used to it" with the best players leaving after 3 years. It used to be 4, now maybe it will change to 2 or less? But yeah, I still think it's weird how it's THREE instead of 4 or graduate or nothing at all.

Yeah, I know that's based on the NFL's age rule, for sure, but I was only pointing out it didn't used to be that way until Walker left for the USFL because they could pay him "enough" (he had turned down $1.5 mil in the CFL 2 years before).

Bottom line, the entire sport of football is going to change some; the NFL will have to respond to college football rather than the other way around (like how they did with the RPO).

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 11:56 AM

I agree with you but I don't see that happening any time in the near future. The NFL would have to initiate that and they have no incentive. From their perspective, they already have a minor leagues. The problem CFB has with the NIL and payments is not an NFL problem. The NFL has no incentive to change anything.

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 12:22 PM

True, but I bet several lawsuits from different angles challenging NFL draft eligibility rules will be crafted to reach the SCOTUS. Give it a few years.

Example: "If I can join the military at age 18 and put my life on the line for my country, why am I denied a right to play in the NFL?"

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Maurice claret tried and was told to pound sand.


Jun 21, 2021, 1:09 PM

CTE lobbyists have plenty of power to support the NFL's position.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


If you are an NFL GM/Owner.....


Jun 21, 2021, 3:16 PM [ in reply to Re: Rather than college athletes being paid ]

what advantage is there for you to change the draft rule?

I'd say you could lower it to 2 years out of high school as this gives a true sample of size for an elite prospect (i.e. stellar frosh yr followed by a stellar soph yr or bad 2nd year). But really no advantage at all to sign an 18 year old in the NFL. CFB is the minor leagues

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 4:20 PM [ in reply to Re: Rather than college athletes being paid ]

MoCity said:

True, but I bet several lawsuits from different angles challenging NFL draft eligibility rules will be crafted to reach the SCOTUS. Give it a few years.

Example: "If I can join the military at age 18 and put my life on the line for my country, why am I denied a right to play in the NFL?"


It was already challenged fairly recently and the NFL won.

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I agree, and I'm not suggesting that the NFL would have


Jun 21, 2021, 3:21 PM [ in reply to Re: Rather than college athletes being paid ]

to decide on their own to do it. What if colleges and universities decided enough is enough and instituted change?

The system as it currently is, as well as what it's becoming, is making a mockery of higher education.

Plus, instituting a minor league system would give the NFL control over that system, namely for teams who draft players to send them to their own affiliated team for the proper training/coaching/development.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 12:02 PM

Well, they are brining back the USFL and the XFL, both leagues will go after the top talent, but these kids will make way more money marketing themselves in college and build more long term value for their own "brand" going to a big name college, so the addition of minor leagues to "avoid" players who want to just be treated like every other human in America, being a capitalist, it's a silly take, not sure why they would do that. Take Zion for an example, he has already made way more money by going to Duke, being tied to Duke for the rest of his life, instead of the G league, there is way more value to both the school and the players for them to attend college. I don't understand why so many people have such an issue with players legally making money--they are not being paid by the schools (yet), they are being allowed to monetize their talents like any other student on campus can and not get suspended or the school in trouble, the supreme court ruling today nailed it, some great quotes too “The NCAA’s business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America.”

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If you want college athletes to make money, fine.


Jun 21, 2021, 3:28 PM

But they should be held to the same standard as the general student body. They should have the grades and SAT scores to get into that school as if they were not an athlete. Any scholarship money should be earned on the basis of academics and not athletics. They shouldn't get special housing, special dining halls, special nutrition programs, special medical care, golf cart rides to class, special tutoring, or special facilities. They should be just like any other student on campus.

I'm guessing you wouldn't be okay with that though. But I sure would.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


If they were just like any other student on campus,


Jun 21, 2021, 4:40 PM

They wouldn't play football.

I know what you're trying to say, but that's what this whole thing was always about; they already aren't treated like the general student body; they can't even have a job.

But it's the same way with real life, including for employees of the same university. A prestigious doctor of medicine is likely making more than a year-one English teacher, for example. A head coach is making more than, well, anyone else, but consequently brings in unprecedented revenue.

It's all tricky, but the unfairness isn't with other students (I'm not sure I understand the suggestion our football players don't have to qualify with their grades or test like the SAT).

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My point is that if they want to be treated like everyone else


Jun 21, 2021, 7:31 PM

and be able to earn income, then they should also be treated like all other students. In other words:

-no admission unless they have comparable grades and test scores to non-athletes who gain admission
-no special academic tutoring services
-no special housing preference given
-no special dining halls

You get my point.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: My point is that if they want to be treated like everyone else


Jun 21, 2021, 8:11 PM

I was an honor student and had all of those things, though? Specialized "study" dorm, grades were determinant, an eating hall that wasn't built for honor students but worked out that way by proxy, etc.

I do get your point, I'm just not sure it's a fair one in spite of it trying to be the essence of social equality.

But I do get what you mean. You believe they don't deserve anything more than anyone else. This story is about how the Supreme Court disagrees with it I guess is what makes it tricky; it's great in theory, but we're ALL rich compared to many other countries, for example, & I'm still not sure I understand the suggestion that Clemson's athletes don't have to meet grade requirements like other students (except honor students, I suppose).

And remember, if any athlete wants to be just like any other student, no matter how spectacular they are at any sport, they can choose to be exactly that; not being able to choose to work or generate income was only unique to them while they played sports.
I admit, I'm not a participation trophy kinda guy, but I understand it. Hopefully all of these changes make more sense to all of us in the near future, but things are definitely changing whether we want them to or not.

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I would bet that an overwhelming majority of Clemson


Jun 22, 2021, 11:00 AM

football and men's basketball players would not be competitive if they were applying to Clemson as a non-athlete.

Clemson's average GPA for admitted students is 4.43, while average SAT is 1310 and average ACT is 30. We don't know what the averages are for football and men's basketball student-athletes currently on the roster, but I guarantee that it's not close to the numbers above.

Don't get me wrong, Clemson certainly makes a much better effort than most schools to make sure that our football and men's basketball players can do the work and have a good chance of graduating from Clemson. The players we recruit are solid students, for sure. Many do well at Clemson. But if these guys were evaluated on academic qualifications alone, many wouldn't be accepted at Clemson.

We are willing to accept marginal students just because they are good at a sport. This doesn't happen in soccer, golf, softball, etc., but it does in football and men's basketball because we (like many other D-1 schools) have decided that athletic success in these two sports is important enough and profitable enough to justify it. I think that's unfortunate.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I would bet that an overwhelming majority of Clemson


Jun 22, 2021, 3:15 PM

The AVERAGE is 4.43?!

Holy cow! I honestly had no idea. That's crazy! I was an honor student in both high school & two universities but I never had a 4.43 GPA (albeit mine weren't on a weighted scale with bell curves, so now I'm curious).

Those averages are enormous! No disrespect, I just had no idea they were so high for new Clemson students, honestly. That's amazing.

If these are true, WOW. I definitely see your point better about athletes not being treated like regular students so thanks for the info.

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 12:18 PM

NBA screwed up both them and college when they started drafting after the students freshmen year. NFL teams have their scout teams but to have a minor league would be extremely expensive.

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Don't have to go to college for basketball


Jun 21, 2021, 8:13 PM

Lebron James went pro from high school----he even tried (& failed) to change it so he could go pro after his junior year of high school (obviously before his "stay in school" campaign, though).

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The rules changed since then.


Jun 22, 2021, 11:01 AM

Now, to be eligible for the NBA Draft, you have to be at least one year removed from high school and 19 years old.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: The rules changed since then.


Jun 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

Yep, and it's interesting that this one & many others are all from Lebron the more I think about it; the cars in particular stands out. It's wild to think about I guess. I'm not really a Lebron guy but so much of it seems to come down to his journey to the pros outright.

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 12:19 PM

Your ideas might have been relevant 10 years ago. But that die has long since been cast. You will not now see a court turn back the rule that allows NIL compensation; nor should you.
Football is a bit different in that a VERY small percentage of HS footballers could compete at the NFL level. The percentage is a good bit higher for baseball and basketball players. You say your proposal hurts no one, but it certainly hurts college football fans who will not witness college careers of generational players.

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GoTiguhs!!


Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 12:32 PM

I’ve never been in favor of one and done. I’d say go straight from high school is a better option for basketball. Interesting idea on football as though. Hadn’t thought of it, but more and more it sounds plausible.

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 1:21 PM

I honestly wish the XFL would have survived the second time around because it could of been that option.

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"I love this place, I've got a spot already picked out where I want 'em to put me when I die - up there on that ole hill near the stadium. I want to be there so I can hear all them people cheering my Tigers on Saturdays; then I won't have to go Heaven; I'll already be there."- Frank Howard


When a non-college NFL alternative emerges


Jun 21, 2021, 1:15 PM

Don’t you think it will negatively impact college football? It is likely inevitable, but NCAA allowing payments to athletes may delay it.

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GoTiguhs!!


CFL, USFL, XFL


Jun 21, 2021, 4:45 PM [ in reply to Re: Rather than college athletes being paid ]

I think the CFL still can get players as soon as they're 18, correct?

And the USFL was the first place besides the CFL where a player could leave college "early" in their junior year (aka, Herschel Walker); they lose all future eligibility for college, but many fans weren't alive when that change happened so they might just not realize it didn't used to be this way.

I've never understood what's to stop the NFL from, say, grabbing a dude out of high school at 18, benching him for 3 years while he gets conditioned, then starting him for a fraction of what they might have paid outright; if the Bengals wanted to take a 19-year-old with no college experience in round 4, why not?

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I thought the nba already had a minor league system.


Jun 21, 2021, 2:46 PM

The g league or something to that affect.

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Yes, but the G League isn't a viable option.


Jun 21, 2021, 4:18 PM

What we currently have is talented athletes abusing the higher education system to get expert coaching, training, medical care, and publicity in order to further their goals. Attending classes is just a necessary evil for many of them, and not something that is a priority.

As it stands now, star players go to college for the 1 year that is required to become eligible for the NBA Draft. This is done in order to meet the NBA's rule that NBA draft eligibility requires one to be 19 years old and one year removed from high school graduation.

Otherwise, you would see more players skipping college altogether, just like we used to.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Lebron just did that


Jun 21, 2021, 4:54 PM

Lebron didn't just skip college altogether, but he also tried (& failed) to get the NBA draft rules changed in his junior year.

He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated as a high school junior (ironically now he tells kids to "stay in school") & his mom bought him a Hummer H2 from a loan from his "future earnings potential," which changed everything in many sports including right here at Clemson with some of our football stars.

And remember, James went straight from high school to the NBA; didn't sit out, and money issues were one of the biggest off-court stories of that season for him.

College football is the weirdest one, though. 3 years? It wasn't THAT long ago that it was 4, & that only changed to 3 in response to Herschel Walker leaving for the USFL after his junior year. If it was 4, I'd get it. If it was 1, at least that would be more like most other sports. But 3? I know it's based on age (i.e., 21) but it's still so strange when you sit and think about it.

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Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 3:26 PM

it would make the most sense to set up a trust for them so the money is available upon graduation. it could be an incentive-based system, graduation gets you more. The last thing we need are student-athletes running around campus with wads of cash, nothing but bad things can happen. You would not send your kids to college with enough money to get them into trouble, even if you could afford to, correct?

I am fine with them getting paid, what I am not fine with is the football team driving around in hummers.

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I can get on board with college athletes being able to make


Jun 21, 2021, 4:23 PM

money, just like other college students can. If that includes getting paid for their name/image/likeness, good for them.

But if we are going to allow that, then we should also treat them just like other college students in other ways, including:

-Scholarships should not be awarded based on athletic skills
-Acceptance should be based on academic qualifications only, not athletic skills
-There should be no special athlete dining halls, tutoring services, etc.

In other words, they should be treated like all other students. As it stands now, they are treated like royalty and they don't like it. So let's make sure they meet the qualifications that the general student body must meet and are treated like the other students.

Otherwise, we are continuing to make a mockery of the higher education system. Since we are taking steps to prevent athletes from being taken advantage of, it's also time we address ways in which athletes are taking advantage of the schools they attend.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Rather than college athletes being paid


Jun 21, 2021, 5:05 PM

It wouldn't work because very few people would watch the minor football league games, so there would be no money to pay the players. Look at all the pro football leagues that have stared up and failed, such as the XFL.

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That doesn't bother me.


Jun 22, 2021, 11:02 AM

My focus is on Clemson University, not athletes getting exposure.

HTH.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Football Pros are not equivalent to Basketball/Baseball Pros


Jun 21, 2021, 5:31 PM

Underdeveloped, straight outta highschool 18 year olds lining up against full grown ### men in the toughest, most violent sport. What could possibly go wrong?

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Re: Football Pros are not equivalent to Basketball/Baseball Pros


Jun 21, 2021, 8:19 PM

Injuries, I guess?

I mean, it's not like we didn't see Christian Wilkins & Dexter Lawrence NOT go pro after their junior years----they would have been 1st-round picks, but instead stayed in school and destroyed freshmen across the sport including Alabama, know what I mean? They were essentially NFL players but still in college by choice.

I definitely hear what you're saying, but I suppose the point is the NFL could grab those players and bench them if they weren't ready, so to speak. Today, though, they can't do that regardless of the players' talent level or size; for every Trevor Lawrence there's a Robert Nkemdiche, so to speak.

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I agree, most 18-19 year-olds aren't physically prepared for


Jun 22, 2021, 11:04 AM [ in reply to Football Pros are not equivalent to Basketball/Baseball Pros ]

the NFL. My point was simply that I don't feel that colleges should serve as the minor league for aspiring pro football players. Colleges are supposed to educate young men and women and prepare them for future employment. We've lost our way by prioritizing athletics to the degree we have, and money is obviously the reason for it.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


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