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Replies: 35
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Scout Team [188]
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Quozzel, Soccer question...?
May 13, 2016, 8:33 PM
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I saw your post and wanted your thoughts...
What are your thoughts on Yergin (sp) Klinsman as our coach?
I'm a moderate soccer fan, and I played all the way through HS, but I admit I don't understand the nuances of the game. I've enjoyed watching more now that Bundasliga(sp) is on TV more, but here the gist of my question...
I'm of the opinion that USA Soccer needs to play a different style than the rest of the world, because that's what our players understand better, and I don't think we're ever going to beat the rest of the world playing their brand of soccer. The brand I'm referring to is the type of soccer we played when Jones, Wynalda were on the team when we hosted the World Cup in the 90's.
Imo, us trying to play and win with the German brand of Soccer is akin to the rest of the SEC and Michigan State trying to go up against Alabama with Nick Saban disciples & trying to play beat him with less talent. Its just not a formula for success imo. Also, the rest of the world seems to get frustrated when we play that way because they don't see it very much, and to me that's a good thing.
That's probably not the best explanation, but I hopefully you understand what I'm getting at.
Its like Sanka said on Cool Runnings, "forget tha Swissss, we from Jamaica mon"
LOL
Thanks in advance
Go Tigers!
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Starter [358]
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Thoughtful idea, but not needed
May 13, 2016, 8:45 PM
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Clemson has one of the best college soccer coaches in the country. His skill set is ideal for building a long term program. Coach Noonan has hired quality assistant coaches and has developed a recruiting system that identifies the type of soccer player that is right for our style of play. The Clemson Soccer team is in very good hands with Coach Noonan.
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Scout Team [188]
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Re: Thoughtful idea, but not needed
May 13, 2016, 8:50 PM
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> Clemson has one of the best college soccer coaches in
> the country. His skill set is ideal for building a
> long term program. Coach Noonan has hired quality
> assistant coaches and has developed a recruiting
> system that identifies the type of soccer player that
> is right for our style of play. The Clemson Soccer
> team is in very good hands with Coach Noonan.
USA! USA! USA!
Thanks for the update on Clemson Soccer tho
Go Tigers!
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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I like what he's tried to do at an organizational level but I don't think
May 13, 2016, 9:07 PM
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he's a good tactical manager. I'm often not a fan of his formations, player call ups, his tendency to play guys out of their best positions, or his constant shuffling of the lineup. We can't develop a good CB pairing because Klinsmann rarely ever plays the same pair two matches in a row.
Not everything is his fault though. This is a bit of a transitional time as we've come to the end of the Donovan, dempsey, Howard (probably beckerman too) era and we are still waiting for young guys to come up through the ranks to fill some of that void.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Quozzel, Soccer question...?
May 13, 2016, 11:27 PM
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I agree with your assessment on the us playing a different style but I actually think the German tactics might be the best fit to start. American players simply do not have the tempo and flow that make European soccer so great. It tends to be more rigid and formulated in the us because of the lack of one on one skill.
Sadly it tends to resemble the college game. The Germans also play a similar style but with vision to stay ahead of their opponents. If the us team can continue to develop the knowledge of the game it can make up for the gap in talent.
As far as Klinsman, he is a great soccer coach but he isn't going to revolutionize the game. US soccer needs a spark, some confidence and something to make it special. Klinsman just isn't that guy.
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All-TigerNet [11136]
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As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 13, 2016, 11:52 PM
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on the USMNT. Our individual skills are lacking. It's a major advantage to be able to beat a man one on one; and we don't have that at most positions. We do have fast players that can create space. With our roster, the game needs to be played on the opposition's side of the pitch. Make our opponents pack it in and defend. To do it, we need a good back 3, but it's doable. Our game should look more like a Brazil club match than a Bundesliga stalemate.
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Scout Team [188]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 14, 2016, 12:26 AM
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Whatweeatin & slac tiger, thanks 4 your responses
And I'm glad y'all see it too.
& bare with me, I can't explain things in soccer terms, but it seems like y'all can translate what I'm saying.
Like I said, I played soccer in HS, but I admit I don't understand the finer points, but soccer is like anything...you gotta play to your strengths, exploit mismatches, & do what your opponent doesn't want you to do.
We have athletes, but we can't beat the rest of the world playing a technical game. They pass and dribble better than we do, and always will imo.
That's their game, and we need to play ours.
What I have observed is we annoy our opponents & have success when we play with a chip on our shoulder, talk trash, get in these punk ### pretty boys faces, play stingy defense, and aggressively counter attack with our speed & the use of boom ball & timely crosses with crisp shots & goals off rebounds.
These soccer punks from around the world are soft imo, and succeptable to frustration when tested.
Coby(sp)Jones, Wynalda, Alexi Laalas(sp), Beckerman, Donnavan, Dempsey & company are all good AMERICAN!!! Soccer players. Sure they can play Euro ball, but we have our own brand of SOCCER and the rest of the world is never gonna respect us so why play their game. I say #### them, and Klinsman.
Not sure who would be the coach to gets us to play that way, but we need to be like a big stinky cheeseburger to these white truffle sissies. Then we need to throw it in their face, because they can't take it. Just taunt them till they cry. Coach needs to talk #### too.
IMO, that's what would get Americans excited about Soccer.
Jmo
Ties suck
Go Tigers!
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 14, 2016, 1:05 AM
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Lotta individual questions there. Answer the best I can.
America had an OK showing in 2010 (Bob Bradley) and pretty good ones in 2014 (Klinsmann) and 2002 (Bruce Arena). We were unlucky in 2006 and got the Group of Death...we took a 3-0 loss on opening day and that was pretty much that...we ended up tying eventual Cup winner Italy and lost in controversial fashion to Ghana. We were terrible in 1998 under Pete Sampson. We had a really magical run when we hosted in 1994...honestly, we were just plain lucky, it was on home soil, lotta things, including the draw, lined up for us.
Our style, such as it was, was always bunker and defend. Up until 2014 we always, always played like the inferior team, mostly because we were. We sat back, soaked up pressure, defended like maniacs, and tried to keep the score down. Then we'd look for ways to get back at them - usually on set pieces like corners or free kicks. It's the way inferior teams always play. We did it reasonably well because we were usually big and athletic and had very good team spirit, but we were certainly not playing proactively.
The German style - the one Klinsmann originated, actually - is assuredly proactive. It's usually a 4-3-3 or at worst a 4-2-3-1, and it's an aggressive, hard-running, physical style...we will get numbers forward, we will attack you. If you break and counter, we run you down. Again, it fits (some) of what America does because we're usually athletic and physically fit...our trouble adapting to it is lack of technicality. In real simple terms, our guys turn the ball over too much, too cheaply, because they're not good enough soccer players however good of athletes they might be. And cheap turnovers when you're playing aggressive get you scored on.
So do we go defensive? Or do we keep doing what Klinsmann wants to do...and keep fighting to get better at it? Personally I think bunker-and-counter is crap soccer; let's TRY to get better.
Klinsmann's also struggling right now because a huge chunk of his roster "aged out" or "hit the wall" all at once...which usually happens on the other side of 32-33 for soccer players who aren't defenders or keepers, who can last awhile longer. SO many players hit that wall all at once - Donovan, Clint Dempsey, Jermaine Jones, Kyle Beckerman, Damarcus Beasley, Brad Davis, Brad Evans, etc, etc...and oh, yeah, super-keeper Tim Howard also looks like he's largely expired and has given way to Brad Guzan, who is solid but not the brick wall Howard was when he's on. And when it came time to find replacements, for whatever reason America...produced next to nothing in the 24-32-year-old-age range, the "prime" years for soccer players. Dunno why. But other than Michael Bradley and Jozy Altidore - who is often sketchy - there are exactly zero other consistent starters in that age group aside from Fabian Johnson, who was a German who switched his flag to America because his dad had been an American serviceman...and Germany didn't want him.
That ain't good.
Right now we're rebuilding, in a huge way, and there's a bunch of promising youngsters in the pipe...who aren't quite ready. Dunno why there's such a huge gap of guys in that 24-32-year-old range, but there is, and it's a huge one. So of necessity we're having to work in a bunch of newbs, and our roster, when we go to Russia in 2018, will certainly be very young.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 14, 2016, 7:10 AM
[ in reply to Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed ] |
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I love the physical mentality as much as the next and you may be on to something in central and South America but if you expect us to out physical the Germans, Dutch, or France's team we would be in trouble.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 14, 2016, 9:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed ] |
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In football terms, you're arguing we should be Georgia Tech. Yeah running the triple option might win us a big game once in awhile. The problem is it's never going to hold up consistently when we play the better nations.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 14, 2016, 10:39 AM
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> In football terms, you're arguing we should be
> Georgia Tech. Yeah running the triple option might
> win us a big game once in awhile. The problem is it's
> never going to hold up consistently when we play the
> better nations.
Jurgen Klinsmann is not running the triple option.
He just plays attacking soccer.
He did get us out of the Group of Death last World Cup. We beat Ghana, outplayed and should have beat Portugal, lost 1-0 to Germany, lost 2-1 to Belgium in the Round of 16 in double overtime in easily the most exciting game of the World Cup. And he did all that with his #1 striker - Altidore - injured 20 minutes into the World Cup.
We were assuredly punching with all those guys. Saying "we just can't compete" and lowering our heads and shuffling back home isn't an answer. His answer: get better.
I think we can. In friendlies last year, IN EUROPE, a very young American squad beat both the Netherlands and the Germans in their own national stadiums...and we did it going 4-3-3 and playing aggressive as sin, and we looked durn good doing it. Then a lot of those guys were either in some weird club situations or got injured and Klinsmann had to go back to the vets for the Gold Cup and we hit a wall and fizzled out.
Going with the young guys is going to require suffering through some growing pains, but I think we'll be competitive once we get through it.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 14, 2016, 1:50 PM
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I wasn't talking about Klinnsman. I was responding to his idea that we should revert to 1990s tactics.
Klinnsman isn't an awful manager but he's not what we need going forward. Way too many questionable roster selections and lineups.
He's a good face for a program but he needs someone with better tactical acumen to make the calls.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 14, 2016, 11:19 PM
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> I wasn't talking about Klinnsman. I was responding to
> his idea that we should revert to 1990s tactics.
>
> Klinnsman isn't an awful manager but he's not what we
> need going forward. Way too many questionable roster
> selections and lineups.
>
> He's a good face for a program but he needs someone
> with better tactical acumen to make the calls.
Maybe...I dunno. I'd love to see Bruce Arena again but I doubt he'd take the job. Maybe Caleb Porter but his washout at the U23's for the Olympic team did not help his national resume.
Aside from that I'm not really sure who we'd get who really wants the job, and who could really do it well.
I think the questionable lineups were at least partly the result of a really uneven talent pool that was sorely lacking talent in about an 8-year gap. Some of that was guys who got hurt - Stuart Holden comes particularly to mind - but there really was a dearth of talent for almost a decade, and I have no idea why. The Dempsey/Donovan/Beasley generation was just way better than the next couple after it.
We're finally starting to churn out numbers and young prospects again, but that donut hole is pretty glaring when you look at it. You can't coach what isn't there, and there just isn't a whole lot there.
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Scout Team [188]
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Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed
May 15, 2016, 12:55 AM
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Good thread iyam
I've learned a lot.
Will probably have more questions, but I feel more awesome than I already was.
Just wanted to make sure people knew that??
Go Tigers & ? #TiesSuck
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Well we've tried to play a more possession oriented
May 14, 2016, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: As a side, we've got good athleticism and speed ] |
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style under Klinsmann, but we really haven't been able to generate a lot of scoring chances out of it. In the last WC we really played more classic American soccer sitting back and looking to counter rather than possess the ball. That was probably in part due to the quality of Ghana, Portugal, Germany, and Belgium, but i think it also showed we are quite some ways from being able to play a possession style against the world powers.
The Gold Cup last summer was just abysmal. I'm hoping that was just an aberration, but we were getting outplayed by Jamaica and company. Not losing on fluke goals, just getting flat outplayed.
But it really is a transitional period for our roster. We haven't produced many quality players over the last ~8 years so there really hasn't been anyone to step in for Donovan and Dempsey.
Christian Pulisic looks like the real deal though. He recently became the youngest player to ever score 2 goals in the Bundesliga at 17 and he's on a really good club at Dortmund. He's on the 40 man roster for the Copa this summer, so hopefully by the 2018 WC he will be fully integrated into the team. We need other guys like Julian Green and Gedion Zelalem to really break into the team too though.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Playing physical can't work eapecially
May 14, 2016, 9:02 AM
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Against south and central americans. Those guys largely have come up through the slums and have the edge, desperation, and anger that our coddled guys can never match much less imagine. Not to mention they have come up through brutal leagues where tackles that would send the average soccer mom taking her boy or girl to piano lessons for life are commonplace.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 9:05 AM
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Aren't as good as other countries in soccer that the answer is thugs. The thugs in almost all other countries play soccer. Ours play basketball or football. Until soccer leaves the suburbs and enters the slums we will be second rate. That also comes with a drastic overhaul of the silly odp system that relies on travel clubs to feed it.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Wow. Awful post, good job.***
May 14, 2016, 12:45 PM
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Re: Wow. Awful post, good job.***
May 14, 2016, 12:59 PM
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Thanks for your response. Clever and insightful
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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I did you a favor keeping my mouth (mostly) shut.***
May 14, 2016, 3:09 PM
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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110%er [7718]
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 7:03 PM
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The truth is rarely popular.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 7:50 PM
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Except that isnt the truth.
You are just a sad little bigot.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 7:59 PM
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Haha ok. I'm assuming you think I'm white
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 8:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: I have long told when people ask why we ] |
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Speaking of bigot. I'm guessing you think only black people can be thugs? You are the bigot
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110%er [7718]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 8:18 PM
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You are the one who said all our thugs go play basketball and football waht is the predominant skin color of those sport.
You are also the bigot who thinks all poor people must become thugs to succeed. You are the MORON who thinks all successful soccer countries are predominantly poor.
Pretty muhc everything you have said out of 100% ignorance and hatred has been false.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 8:22 PM
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You mad bro? Where do you see the hate? That's idiotic. The fact is most of the great athletes don't come from frilly suburbs. They come from the poorer places. In many places in Europe that includes you anglos. But for the rest of the world it doesn't. You can cry foul all you want but that doesn't make it less true
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110%er [8681]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 5:47 PM
[ in reply to I have long told when people ask why we ] |
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using that logic Clemson would have a terrible football team and Louisville, auburn, south carolina, etc. would win the national championship every year.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 7:04 PM
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Yeh. Cuz our guys are choirboys.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 7:56 PM
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We're not even in the top 50 of arrest in the past 5 years. Sorry that the facts don't support your theory,
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 8:01 PM
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Where did I say criminal? I'm speaking socioeconomics not crime
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110%er [7718]
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Re: I have long told when people ask why we
May 14, 2016, 8:19 PM
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TIL you must be poor to be great at sports....
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Orange Blooded [2783]
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What do you call 'The American strategy'?
May 14, 2016, 9:23 AM
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The South Americans run down the side and center. The Europeans run it up the middle with more power (that's at least how it use to be). So many Americans play abroad, that fielding a team from the MLS may not be completely practical. I don't watch enough soccer now to form much of an opinion, but I am curious what style you're referring to
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Quozzel, Soccer question...?
May 14, 2016, 4:46 PM
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Are you pretty much done pretending you arent OhSon now?
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