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Orange Blooded [3728]
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Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 8:20 AM
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Apologies in advance for the diatribe. I know that this post goes over the line in dissecting player performance, but it is an aspect of the game that truly fascinates me.
So, I’m not a QB, not a big tall dude. I wear a large size lawn glove, have thrown my fair share of footballs to my tall son (I know, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night also) over the years as he was growing up, and have a clean spiral when I throw the ball.
I keep going back to that ACCCFG and thinking about the performance of the Tiger receivers that seemed to just INSTANTLY elevate with Cade at the helm.
Yeah, Cole Turner played essentially his first game, but Ngata, Spector, Allen (he’s great, but that catch in the end zone was pretty special and not easy to catch), all seemed to be better. That old adage that “a rising tide lifts all boats” seems to apply here.
We have had a few threads on here about DJU’s wobbly passes. DJU is a big guy, but so was TL16 (taller). Cade is listed as 6’ 2”.
As I was reading that latest article on the home page with Cade’s arm back in a throwing motion holding the ball, I was thinking back to other similar photos of DJU in the same throwing motion, trying to notice their respective hand sizes on the ball.
Cade seems to clearly have smaller hands than DJU, and Cade’s passes seem to be overwhelmingly tight spirals as the ball comes off his hands.
It seems that TL16 also had tight spirals on his passes, and he would have had large hands compared to DJU and Cade.
DJU just seemed to never really have that tight spiral, and we saw a LOT of dropped passes on the end of DJU’s passes.
The only explanation that to come to my mind is that DJU’s grip on the football and his release is the root of his wobbly passes.
I recall Terry Bradshaw (listed as 6’ 3”) showing his bizarre grip on the football with his index finger on the point of the football, but he had a beautiful spiral on his passes.
So, in general, I just feel that the grip and release is something that can be coached to a QB regardless of their respective hand size, to attain that tight spiral, which results in an EASIER, more catchable pass. This is akin to a clean, proven shooting form in basketball, which is a very coachable skill.
If this is true, then WHY didn’t Streeter CORRECT DJU’s passing grip and release two (2) years ago? As much as these coaches watch film and study the players, a QB’s footwork, etc., doesn’t this grip and release get scrutinized?
Yeah, I get that we can add in DJU’s inability to get through his progressions properly, and his decisions on when to run/give on zone reads, holding the ball too long, etc., but maybe just fixing something as simple as the grip and release could have given DJU just enough added confidence and accuracy on his throws to improve his other problems not directly related to his wobbly passes.
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110%er [8518]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 8:33 AM
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Doesn't matter we are 11-2, in the Orange Bowl and DJ is transferring. I meant to pick different Mega Million numbers last night but I didn't.
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Legend [17751]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 9:06 AM
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I meant to play the lotto last night !!! Grrr
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Orange Blooded [4603]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 8:35 AM
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You make some good points and have valid questions. Some people just have the God given ability to throw a football that spirals perfectly, with the nose slightly up, high spin rate and has a "soft & lightweight" feel to the receiver. Receivers love a guy who throws a ball like this. See Joe Montana, Tom Brady, DW4 and TL16 for reference as they all have this quality. Many times, the QB with the big arm throws a ball that has low spin, wobbles and flutters like a knuckleball and feels like a bowling ball when it hits the receiver's hands. See DJU for reference. Can proper technique be taught? Maybe. However, players with thick meaty hands will always have trouble. I think Shaq O'neil described this problem best when a reporter asked him why he was such a terrible free throw shooter. Shaq replied: "Have you ever shot free throw with a golf ball? That is what it is like for me."
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All-TigerNet [10800]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 8:39 AM
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The bottom line - a tight spiral is easier to catch than a wobbly knuckle pass
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Orange Blooded [3985]
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Orange Blooded [3728]
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Very intersting…thanks***
Dec 17, 2022, 10:07 AM
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CU Guru [1959]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Some call it a 'heavy ball', it's different, but receivers..
Dec 17, 2022, 8:55 AM
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should not have an issue catching one. It's what they do.
As far as "Streeter" correcting anything, football is a thinking man's game and that is where DJU's struggles are rooted. Top down is the issue, it affects everything else; field of vision narrows, reactions are blunted. 7 games into the season posters were on this site apologizing for ever poor mouthing DJU, before he fell off the wagon at home against Cuse.
If you want to know why Stephone Anthony was benched for Spencer Shuey, the top down reasons were the root. He was lost. A five-star, Tarzan of a young man, made Jane because he could not make simple reads, keep his eyes where they belong, then play with his hands and leverage, because he could not think the position.
It happens, the "yips", the mental blocks or failures, in business, personal life, sport et al.
If DJU can continue to work through his struggles, with his Psychologist and/or coaches, get out of his own way, he'll play much less encumbered, more freely and things should begin to fall into place again, any physical limitations his only roadblock.
All the best to the young man, he was a great leader from all reports and a great Tiger.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 9:03 AM
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Here is your answer..."PERFECT THROWING MECHANICS"....watch the assessment at this link.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZsbeP39DbK8
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Scout Team [171]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 9:16 AM
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As a former quarterback I can tell you that you either have it or you don’t. You can certainly fine tune some of the things that you do as far as footwork is concerned but to overhaul a throwing motion is asking the impossible.
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Orange Blooded [2335]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 9:36 AM
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Just my thought is, it has a lot to do with his confidence in his throw. Thinking too much. It was obvious that the Chickens were in his head. When DJ plays fast he’s at his best!! I just watched the second half of the SC game. I just wish we would have “ RUN THE DANG BALL” the whole second half.
My son told me not to watch it and I did. Now I remember how I welt leaving the game the other day.??
MOVE ON.RIGHT!!!
GO TIGERS BEAT THE VOLS!!!!
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110%er [6439]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 10:22 AM
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DJ’s mechanics should’ve been corrected in middle school, but weren’t . They’re now ingrained in him, and he can’t undo them. I’m sure Dabo and Streeter worked continuously with him to try and fix his issues, but clearly couldn’t. If they couldn’t undo his footwork and throwing issues, reading the field difficulties, I doubt any other coach can. They were extremely patient with DJ, to the extent of us losing the ND game and Coot game. Curious to see how patient the next coach will be with him.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Questions for former QB/WRs, DJ/Cade throwing motion…
Dec 17, 2022, 10:42 AM
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DJ's mechanics could have worked, al la Patrick Maholmes, but he doesn't see the field and make decisions like Maholmes. I wish him no ill will and hope he is a huge success in life, but DJ ain't making it in the NFL as a QB. Arena, player-controlled league, XFL maybe, but NOT the NFL.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I have opinions on two of your comments.
Dec 17, 2022, 10:50 AM
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As with any throwing motion the power behind the throw comes from the legs, which turn the hips, the hips which rotate the upper body (transferring the power generated to the shoulders), the whipping motion of the arm, the snap of the wrist and the thrust of the fingers. The best examples of this are the major league baseball players.
DJ's mechanics are perfect when he has time to set his feet so that he can utilize his legs and from there up everything else works perfectly. When his feet can't be planted correctly (or he thinks they can't), or his hip rotation is not completed he adjust other parts of his throwing mechanism, arm, wrist and fingers.
DJ's problem was what he adjusted to compensate for the loss of proper footing. When his wrist and hand became involve in the throw the pass wobbled. Adjustment to those two factors are possible for very short passes but will result in loss of velocity and loss of control of distance.
DJ often got into the situation where his feet weren't properly stationed because he lacked the ability to read a defense.
I am satisfied he was the best during practice throughout almost all of last season. Knowing that no one was going to hit him provided him confidence in very well executing his throws.
A coach's job is to perfect the mechanics. Adjustments have to be mastered by the player. DJ was given almost all the first team snaps and provided all the opportunity to master those adjustments. He was given all the playing time to provide further provide him opportunity to master those adjustments.
How he made it through three seasons of practicing at this level without doing better is beyond me. Something is wrong in his head. It's a mental thing which can not be coached away.
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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Great thread!
Dec 17, 2022, 3:06 PM
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OP, first off, I'm a lifelong Steelers fan and remember Bradshaw's weird grip with his index finger. Really good stuff only old timey Steelers fans know about.
Regarding DJ's issues, throwing motions are very difficult to re-learn at the collegiate level. DJ's muscle memory is very ingrained and there is a reason most inaccurate QBs don't find their groove and improve in college. It's too late by then. Coaching at Clemson can't be blamed.
The main reason DJ isn't accurate is because his arm slot and release point are both all over the place, with no purpose. The previous poster who said poor footwork is usually the main cause is correct. Always having proper footwork is a matter of discipline for the QB and it sometimes CAN be coached and drilled into a player. But it's still on the player to exercise mental discipline play-after-play-after-play.
Bottom line: DJ's very flawed delivery and footwork were issues he easily overcame at the HS level, for a lot of reasons. At the Power 5 level of CFB, he got exposed. He is what he is.
I think he could succeed with Jeff Tedford at Cal State Fullerton and hope he goes there.
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