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Question for Basketball fans
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Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 1:58 PM

Why has Clemson basketball been bad to mediocre for its entire existence? I think it’s silly to blame this on 1 person that has been a coach at Clemson for 10 years.

Some people on this board expect us to consistently finish in the top 4 of the ACC on a regular basis.

We have never consistently achieved this at Clemson. Why do you expect to now? What has changed? In order to get there as a program, what needs to happen?

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Re: Question for Basketball fans

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 2:01 PM

Simple: Press Maravich

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 2:06 PM

The highest we have ever finished in the AP poll was 13th in the nation. That was done twice. One year we finished 14th, but we were ranked 2nd in the nation for a bit. That particular season was under Barnes. Our history sucks.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 2:08 PM

Carlsbad® said:

The highest we have ever finished in the AP poll was 13th in the nation. That was done twice. One year we finished 14th, but we were ranked 2nd in the nation for a bit. That particular season was under Barnes. Our history sucks.



Agreed. But why does our history suck? And what do we need to become a consistently successful basktball school?

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 2:14 PM

I really don't know. It's probably like Indiana trying to be good at football. I was going to say it was about money, but it doesn't always add up. Look at these football budgets.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances


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Re: Question for Basketball fans

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 2:26 PM

That shows how hard it can be. If it was all about money Texas would always be great, but they have gotten a poor return on their money a long time.

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It's not all about money.

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 4:36 PM

But it absolutely takes money to get there.

Historically, Clemson is unwilling to consistently put significant money into basketball.

Amazingly, some of our woke fans in 2021 expect tremendous success despite the relative lack of importance Clemson has placed on basketball.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: It's not all about money.

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 4:55 PM

So, I have two questions if Clemson did decide to put more money into baketball:

1. How much more money? 2 million, 5 million, 20 million?
2. How should this money be allocated? Better facilities, better coaches, more assistant coaches etc.?

in your opinion. Or, if you know or can guess, answer these questions from coach BB's point of view.

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Re: It's not all about money.


Apr 1, 2021, 4:56 PM

"basketball"

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Re: It's not all about money.


Apr 3, 2021, 12:07 PM

Same difference.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 2:18 PM

Part of it is we have not been always been bad to mediocre. Yes we have had some bad teams, but we have had some success under coaches Foster, Ellis, Barnes, Purnell and though tainted some under Tate Locke, so we know it can be done and during those times it has been a lot of fun. Speaking for myself I don't expect us to be in the top 4 of ACC every year, but maybe 2 or 3 out 5 years would be nice while being competitive the other years. CBB has had some success too while running a clean program. I have always been in his corner, but I do wish he coached a more exciting brand of basketball. I understand being in love with 3's and if we could him them consistently would be fun, but the games we shoot 25% is just torture.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 3:05 PM

You are right. We have had good seasons in the past no doubt. None of those seasons resulted in a championship. Also none of those coaches had any sort of sustained success.

With Brownell, we have had our up's and down's but there has been a marked improvement over the last 4 years.

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Nobody blames Brownell for our entire basketball history.


Apr 1, 2021, 2:26 PM

Just the mediocrity of the last 11 years.

We are currently experiencing a run of football success that we have never experienced before. Now let's see if we can't improve the success and direction of our basketball program. While I don't expect the same level of success as our football program, improving on the mediocrity of the last 11 years shouldn't be the impossible task that some would have us believe.

Brad Brownell is not the best we can do or hope for.

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Re: Nobody blames Brownell for our entire basketball history.


Apr 2, 2021, 8:02 AM


Just the mediocrity of the last 11 years.

We are currently experiencing a run of football success that we have never experienced before. Now let's see if we can't improve the success and direction of our basketball program. While I don't expect the same level of success as our football program, improving on the mediocrity of the last 11 years shouldn't be the impossible task that some would have us believe.

Brad Brownell is not the best we can do or hope for.



We have spent a $100MM on our football program. That is not counting what we have spent on the DV. We have one of the top three paid coaching staffs and one of the top three most expensive support staff. BC just hired one of our bball assistants who left for other reasons but got a raise in the process.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 3:43 PM

Why do you expect not too?

Why are you satisfied with the status quo of mediocrity?

Why do you not want more for the basketball program?

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You didn't answer his question.


Apr 1, 2021, 4:37 PM

Why not?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Question for Basketball fans

[1]
Apr 1, 2021, 4:38 PM

I'm not satisfied with mediocrity. Quite honestly, I give Brownell a pass for the first 6 years. He didn't perform very well, but was also dealt a #### hand by Purnell (other than the first year). Our problem with basketball was not Brownell. Our problem was that we had the worst facilities, history, and financial support in the ACC.

We are now on a more even playing field with the teams we are competing against and it has shown with our performance. In the last 4 years we made a sweet 16 for the 4th time in school history. This year we had our best regular season in program history (IMO)

Our 2 best recruiting classes under Brownell will be sophomores and Juniors next year. We are steadily improving. Brownell needs to continue to improve to keep his job.

I feel like this is a pretty fair take.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 2, 2021, 7:01 PM

Can you please explain what the "#### hand Purnell left (besides year 1)" was or what you mean by that, Purnell left him a talented team, the team he took over had 4 seniors on it, wasn't it Brownell's responsibility to recruit and replace the talent that Purnell recruited with equal talent? Can't blame Purnell if Brownell recruited lesser talent than he did, seems like an odd take.

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Teams that are well-stocked in terms of talent have good players at all four levels.


Apr 2, 2021, 10:51 PM

That is, seniors, juniors, freshmen, and sophomores.

Both Rick Barnes and Oliver Purnell had some success here, but had significant recruiting misses toward the end of their tenures.

For example, Rick Barnes’s 1997-1998 team (which turned out to be his last) had the following:

Seniors: Greg Buckner
Juniors: Terrell McIntyre, Tony Christie. Harold Jamison, Iker Iturbe, Tom Wideman, Johnny Miller
Sophomores: Vincent Whitt, Mohamed Woni
Freshmen: Adam Allenspach

That team was fairly well positioned for 1998-1999, with the only loss being Greg Buckner and a lot of experience returning. Unfortunately, there were only two rising juniors and one rising sophomore, and no recruits of note committed for the 1998 signing class. Rick knew he was unlikely to see his success at Clemson continue, and bolted while his stock was still high. Not surprisingly, Shyatt’s first year wasn’t bad, with an NIT appearance, but the next year was a huge downturn.

Oliver Purnell’s last season here, 2009-2010, had seniors Trevor Booker and Karolis Petrukonis. Juniors included Demontez Stitt, Jerai Grant, Jonah Baize, and Zavier Anderson. Two of those were good seniors for Brownell’s first year, but two were non-contributors.

Sophomores on Purnell’s last team included Andre Young, Tanner Smith, Bryan Narcisse, and Catalin Baciu. Freshmen included Milton Jennings, Noel Johnson, Devin Booker, and Donte Hill.

What’s worse is that his 2010 recruiting class had 1 commit, 3 star Marcus Thornton.

Purnell’s roster looked better on paper than Barnes’s roster, but in all honesty there was a significant drop off after Stitt and Grant. So in year two for Brad, after Stitt and Grant graduated, he was left to lean on Andre Young and Tanner Smith as the go-to guys. They weren’t bad players, but they weren’t stars. They were your run of the mill 3 star recruits. There was excitement over the 2009 class with Jennings, Booker, Johnson, and Hill, but that wasn’t a top 20 class in reality. Devin Booker was solid, but not nearly as good as his brother. Johnson and Hill turned out to be lackluster players who weren’t ACC material and transferred.

As was the case with Shyatt, Brownell was left with a rough situation starting in year two. Like Barnes, Purnell knew this was likely and left while his value was high.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 3:49 PM

There has been some success in the past.and yes, it did not sustain.
That being said - I would rather live with ups and downs than sitting in the spot we currently are. Nothing wrong with where we are, they play hard, and are coached ok.
After 11 years - what tells me the 12th will be any different? This is the root of my concern.

The energy has been pulled out when we are a defensive team and not winning. Aka, UVA. They embrace the defense, but win.

Sometimes it is simply having the right coach. Not necessarily better coach. Coaching is about many things. From enthusiasm, recruiting, connecting to players, student body, alumni, and donors.
It is possible that BB leaves and goes to x school and then goes to win big. Sometimes it is simply the right fit.

I don’t think bad of BB. When he first came on, I loved the organization he had on things like inbounds and plays when needed. His teams made free throws. But I also miss the aggressive, fast paced world of OP. I went to several home games each year and away games back then. I lived all over, flying to games.
For the first few years, i did the same with BB teams. But it got stodgy and boring to me.
I can only imagine being prospective players being recruited and wanting to go play and not seeing fast paced - being tall and not seeing inside game - being a rim protector and not seeing one, being a slasher or high flyer and not seeing excitement.
I disagree with not having inside game. In my clearly amateur opinion, you can’t win without points in the paint to go with 3s. They compliment each other.
Excitement brings in fans and IMO - players.
Look at VT. No history, no advantages over Clemson BB, but exciting to watch and have threatened bigger names and winning the ACC. They play exciting ball. Does BB have that in him?

Simply, I think it is time for a change. Yes, we could go south. But we just as easily could go north.
Unc, Duke, Syracuse , Miami, even FSU all will be getting new coaches in next few years (unc now). Let’s go!

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Because no 4* or 5* players see any reason to sign with Clemson


Apr 1, 2021, 9:23 PM

Would you want your 4* or 5* kid to sign with Clemson? No, of course not.

For reasons known only to them, the BoT has edicted that mediocre is the standard for CU MBB.

I expect they've concluded it is a losing prop for Clemson to try to consistently finish towards the top of the ACC. So they've decided to go with a safe coach and hope for the occasional flash in the pan season. That's reasonable from an economic standpoint.

If you are passionate about CBB then you'll want to align with a program which is committed to championships. Clemson simply isn't that program.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans

[3]
Apr 1, 2021, 4:12 PM

I'll take a stab at it and give my best assessment as a life long basketball guy. Momentum killing basketball hires, Rick Barnes had made 3 straight NCAA berths and on his way to a 4th (handed over an amazing team) and then we hired Larry Shyatt, who honestly set our program back 10 years, I don't think people appreciate how hard of a rebuild job Coach Purnell took on and what an amazing job he did bringing our program back from the dead. The team Barnes handed over to Shyatt that went 20-15, was a Sweet 16, Elite 8 caliber team and Shyatt was such a bad coach we didn't even make the tournament, that season alone was coaching malpractice at it's finest. It's inexplicable why we kept him around for 4 more seasons after that, what he showed in season 1 should have been enough to make a plan to change course within 3 years, but keeping him as long as we did, did so much damage to the program it can not be overstated how bad he left it.

OP did an outstanding job, I see posters on here try to down play how good of a coach he was or his success in the NCAA tournament, but I don't think any of them really understand where he started and where he got our program, it really is miraculous, he was a great fit for us, he recruited really well, knew the AAU circuit to fill the team needs (certain programs are known for producing great 3 point shooting like the Tennessee Travelers IE Oglesby), he knew the region and had a clear identity. He made 3 straight NCAA tournaments (on his way to a 4th like Barnes) and we handed the team over to Coach Brownell, who is clearly a good coach, no more, no less-- nothing wrong with his coaching abilities, he knows hoop... But he wasn't a great fit and not a great coach. After Brownell went 16-15, 17-14 in years 5 and 6, we should have pulled the cord. By no means is he a Larry Shyatt type disaster, but he killed momentum just like Shyatt did because he just is not a great coach or recruiter.

So our history shows we could be a really good program, like a Wisconsin in the South, if we had the right coach and stuck with him (and he stuck with us), where we make the NCAA's probably most years, 4 out of every 5 and go on a sweet 16 to Final 4 run here and there, but it will take finding the right guy, but also when we don't have the right guy, moving on and recognizing it and not accepting mediocrity like we have the last 11 years.

Just my opinion, easier said than done I know, but it's sad, I love hoop and seeing us just accept it is really disappointing and has been most my life with just a few glimpses and moments of hope and optimism, then we hire a Shyatt or Brownell :(

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 4:18 PM

Well said!

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 5:19 PM

To your Rick Barnes comment.

So you are saying, hiring an elite coach who was going to have success but then bail for a better job cost us an additional 10 years. So having success for 3 years gave us 10 years of poor performance.

Ding ding ding. That’s the problem with Clemson basketball. We don’t take basketball seriously. It’s not a desirable coaching job. I happen to think brownell is the perfect fit for the job. He has us steadily improving and I doubt he will bail.

Our last two “good” coaches you mentioned bailed on us shortly after success. I happen to think OP peaked at Clemson and don’t think he’s a better coach than brownell.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 2, 2021, 5:52 PM

No, the coaches bailing didn't cost us 10 years, the admin not knowing when to throw in the towel and admitting they made bad hires is what cost us the majority of those years. If you don't take some swings you will never get a hit, when you know the current guy is not "the guy" you need to move on and take another swing, and our admin does not seem to have that mindset with our basketball program.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 3, 2021, 11:14 AM


No, the coaches bailing didn't cost us 10 years, the admin not knowing when to throw in the towel and admitting they made bad hires is what cost us the majority of those years. If you don't take some swings you will never get a hit, when you know the current guy is not "the guy" you need to move on and take another swing, and our admin does not seem to have that mindset with our basketball program.



Dude.....

You literally said this in your above post

“ and then we hired Larry Shyatt, who honestly set our program back 10 years”

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 3, 2021, 11:42 AM

Yes, the hiring of Larry Shyatt, and the subsequent Larry Shyatt era cost our program 10 years--Sorry I thought his tenure was implied as part of the set back when I mentioned in another post, had we cut the cord when we knew he wasn't "the guy" it would not have cost us as long as a program and been such a difficult rebuild for OP, my apologies. The coaches dipping out early are not the issue, it's the admin not knowing when to admit defeat and that they made a bad hire--I'm not sure how else to say that.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 9:07 PM

Very well said. Here's the proof anyone needs. Not to mention his first 5 years went downhill from what was given to him. Honestly can't understand anyone that says he's on a better course the last 5 years.

Here’s a look at the Tigers’ recruiting classes over the past five years and how it ranks in terms of the ACC (according to 247 Sports).

2015: No. 82 nationally, 14th in the ACC
2016: No. 116 nationally, 15th in the ACC.
2017: No. 46 nationally, 9th in the ACC.
2018: No. 62 nationally, 10th in the ACC.
2019: No. 43 nationally, 9th in the ACC.
It should be pointed out that the 2020 class was ranked No. 34 nationally and 8th in the ACC, which was the best in quite some time. But that's now tanked with the departures.

Also, football and basketball, even baseball will continue to evolve into more parity because of transfer rules. You'll have teams that will be good for a year through this parity. A la LSU football 2019, A la Arkansas in bball this year.

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Actually, the 2020 class was a top 20 class.


Apr 1, 2021, 9:17 PM

And the 2021 class was top 35 until we lost one last week.

If you can’t see that recruiting these last few years has improved, I don’t know what else to say.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Actually, the 2020 class was a top 20 class.


Apr 2, 2021, 4:48 PM

Where do you get your rankings. The 2021 class was 46th on Rivals before the latest loss.

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Shyatt’s first team was not an Elite 8 or Sweet 16 team.


Apr 1, 2021, 9:19 PM

Not even close. Greg Buckner had graduated and Terrell McIntyre was a senior. There were some okay pieces around him, but that team was barely an NCAA Tournament team at best.

Like Purnell, Barnes left while his stock was high and before his recruiting misses became apparent. Barnes didn’t have much in the cupboard, as evidenced by Shyatt’s second and third seasons which were total rebuilds.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Shyatt’s first team was not an Elite 8 or Sweet 16 team.


Apr 2, 2021, 5:27 PM

Judge, I really appreciate your passion for hoop and the time and energy you put into fighting for fan support, optimism and just overall "want to" for our program to succeed. That being said, I think you can be a little blinded by your commitment to certain positions you have taken in the past and just being all in on them, and often times focusing on the negative of our school's commitment to basketball. We've shown an ability to function and be competitive at a really high level even with the past disadvantages, investment and "commitment" as you have stated several times over the years. And your take on the first Shyatt team is a great example of you having blinders or maybe not playing a ton of hoop in your life (I am not questioning your knowledge, research, observations or passion or trying to insult you in any way). That team 100% was Sweet 16/Elite 8 caliber, Boogie was a transcendent PG, Harold Jamison and Tom Wideman were top 3 front courts in Clemson history, they knew their roles and played them well, Jurkunas was a really solid 3 point shooter (about 40%), Tony Christie was an awesome wing player/slasher with a great mid range game and the ability to step outside and knock down 3's--as much as I dislike Will Solomon, he was a solid role player--for you to say they were barely an NCAA team at best is just false and anyone who knows ball and watched those PLAYERS in previous years under Barnes would understand that or know that. The style they played under Barnes would have continued to maximize those guy's talents and really thrive, instead Shyatt who was just a poor coach just made Boogie play ISO ball, no movement and Harold or Tom would try to clean up on the offensive glass. The way Barnes coached and the way he had his teams play are night and day compared to Shyatt.

And for you to say he left the cupboard empty and jumped ship because it was so bad, is an embarrassing take, he would have had 5 SENIORS on that team (if it was his and not Shyatt), it's called recruiting (he has excelled at that at Texas and Tenn) and he has proven he can recruit-- 5 SENIORS, THAT'S NEARLY HALF THE ROSTER! You can support the current regime without putting down the past, successful ones--both things are fine to do. We all just want what is best for our program and to see us succeed.

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Barnes’s last team at Clemson limped into the NCAA Tournament


Apr 2, 2021, 11:21 PM

in 1998. Despite a senior star in Buckner, and some talented juniors in McIntyre, Jamison, Iturbe, Christie, and Wideman, we went from a preseason top 5 team to a team that finished 7-9 in the ACC (5th out of 8 teams), 17-12 overall, and lost to Western Michigan in the first round of the NCAA Tournament.

What leads you to the conclusion that Shyatt’s first team was an Elite 8 team, given the fact that the previous year’s team was 17-12 overall, 7-9 in the ACC, and the best player on that team had graduated?!?

McIntyre was a very good PG, but Jamison and Christie weren’t All-ACC caliber players. Wideman was dependable and good for defense and rebounding, but not an offensive threat. Again, that team might’ve snuck into the NCAA Tournament with a great coach and some fortunate bounces, but most would agree that it had NIT written all over it.

Unfortunately, I believe you are overrating those players because you associate many of them with the successful Sweet 16 team in 1997. Other than that wonderful year, Rick Barnes’s tenure was similar to Purnell’s in that he had some great times but ultimately some head scratching NCAA Tournament disappointments resulting in first round upsets.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 6:58 PM

Actually not our entire existence - we were undefeated (4-0) in the inaugural 1911-12 season.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 8:43 PM

I still remember when President Barker set out his 10 year plan one time. One of the goals was 2 Final Fours, not 1 mind you, but 2 Final Fours over the ensuing 10 years. So why can't we do it in basketball. I don't accept, "well, we've never done it". We've rebuilt Littlejohn twice in the last 20 years or so. We've made the investment. Dabo Swinney came in and said "Clemson is a special place" and he's right. We need a basketball coach to make the same proclamation.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 1, 2021, 8:48 PM

I still remember when President Barker set out his 10 year plan one time. One of the goals was 2 Final Fours, not 1 mind you, but 2 Final Fours over the ensuing 10 years. So why can't we do it in basketball. I don't accept, "well, we've never done it". We've rebuilt Littlejohn twice in the last 20 years or so. We've made the investment. Dabo Swinney came in and said "Clemson is a special place" and he's right. We need a basketball coach to make the same proclamation.

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I agree. We should never be great.


Apr 1, 2021, 9:15 PM

What kind of loser would want to be great?

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It’s okay to want to be great. In fact, it’s the kind of goal we should have.


Apr 1, 2021, 9:27 PM

But this whole idea that an outgoing coach who talks about how special Clemson is will magically make us great is ludicrous.

Recruits aren’t stupid. They know that Clemson isn’t passionate about basketball. They see that the administration and fans aren’t serious about being better. Why would the top recruits choose Clemson if they are good enough to go to a school with a strong basketball tradition, rabid fans, and an administration that is “all in?”

That’s what caused them to consider Clemson football when Dabo made his sales pitch. Dabo could point to our history, fan base, stadium, etc. And that’s what top recruits want to see from Clemson basketball too.

Let’s make Clemson basketball facilities the best in the nation, or even top 10, and let’s see what happens. Let’s have the highest paid coaching staff, or even among the highest, and see what happens. Let’s have rabid fans who pack Littlejohn and are loud and proud, and see what happens. That’s what football has, and it seems to be working.

Until then, shut up about “being great” at basketball and other platitudes that sound nice but mean nothing without real action behind them. Otherwise, you’re just dreaming.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Sometimes I think you make good points. But not this time.


Apr 2, 2021, 7:20 AM

So we’re back to blaming it on fans???? Wow!
You say the players want “rabid” fans. But we’ve seen, especially this year, that we have snowflakes on the team who go to social media and complain when they think the fans are dissatisfied with losing.
So, how do we define “rabid”? Would that be showing up to watch mediocre basketball, pretending like it’s fun, and just hoping we get better someday?

And are we also now saying we need to renovate the facilities AGAIN?
How long can this excuse go on?
What else needs to be done?
And if it’s a major project that forces another season off-campus...well, there’s that excuse again.
This is maddening.

Bottom line:
A dynamic coach will be able to overcome challenges, instead of making excuses at every turn.

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Re: Sometimes I think you make good points. But not this time.


Apr 2, 2021, 1:16 PM

“A dynamic coach should be able to overcome challenges”

Do you have a coach in mind that is dynamic enough to cover come the huge hurdles at Clemson basketball?

So you know how hard it is to find and hire a dynamic coach? And if you do find a dynamic coach that has success at Clemson, do you think he would stick around?

The last two “good” coaches didn’t. Oliver Purnell left for freaking DePaul!

At some point you have to make the job attractive enough to make a big time hire.

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I am not the athletic director. No, I have not been conducting a search.


Apr 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

The “who else are you gonna get” argument is the weakest ever.

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Re: I am not the athletic director. No, I have not been conducting a search.


Apr 3, 2021, 11:17 AM

Row86® said:

The “who else are you gonna get” argument is the weakest ever.



Did you read the rest of my post? There were many more points.

So say we hire an extremely dynamic coach that has us performing very well in his first 4 years. Do you really think that coach is staying at Clemson? History says no. Considering our last “good” coach in your mind bailed on us for DePaul.

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So we should keep a mediocre coach


Apr 3, 2021, 9:32 PM

in fear that it we get a really good coach, he may not stay forever?

Got it.

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Re: Sometimes I think you make good points. But not this time.

[1]
Apr 2, 2021, 5:34 PM


“A dynamic coach should be able to overcome challenges”

Do you have a coach in mind that is dynamic enough to cover come the huge hurdles at Clemson basketball?

So you know how hard it is to find and hire a dynamic coach? And if you do find a dynamic coach that has success at Clemson, do you think he would stick around?

The last two “good” coaches didn’t. Oliver Purnell left for freaking DePaul!

At some point you have to make the job attractive enough to make a big time hire.


Other schools like Chicago Loyloa,Houston,Alabama have and they are either smaller or non basketball schools. Saying we can not find a better coach is just accepting mediocrity but apparently some so called “fans” are ok with that.

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Re: Sometimes I think you make good points. But not this time.


Apr 2, 2021, 5:34 PM


“A dynamic coach should be able to overcome challenges”

Do you have a coach in mind that is dynamic enough to cover come the huge hurdles at Clemson basketball?

So you know how hard it is to find and hire a dynamic coach? And if you do find a dynamic coach that has success at Clemson, do you think he would stick around?

The last two “good” coaches didn’t. Oliver Purnell left for freaking DePaul!

At some point you have to make the job attractive enough to make a big time hire.


Other schools like Chicago Loyloa,Houston,Alabama have and they are either smaller or non basketball schools. Saying we can not find a better coach is just accepting mediocrity but apparently some so called “fans” are ok with that.

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Re: Sometimes I think you make good points. But not this time.


Apr 2, 2021, 8:30 PM

Houston - they’ve been to the final 4 six times in their history

Alabama - they hired a former NBA coach and paid him what would be near the top of the ACC per year. He got fired after 2 season and they hired Oates. They’ve had 1 good season. Let’s see if they keep it up.

Loyola - I mean good for them. They had 2 good runs but lose nearly everyone off there team for this year.

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You forgot to remind us


Apr 2, 2021, 8:55 PM

we beat Alabama in December when no one cared.

C’mon man! You’re slippin’.

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Re: You forgot to remind us


Apr 2, 2021, 10:26 PM

Row86® said:

we beat Alabama in December when no one cared.

C’mon man! You’re slippin’.



Maybe you didn’t care, but I did.

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December Madness.


Apr 3, 2021, 9:44 PM

If that’s what you’re into.

Hey, maybe that’s where Brad can find his niche.
We can make it a thing.

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Re: December Madness.


Apr 4, 2021, 7:58 PM

Row86® said:

If that’s what you’re into.

Hey, maybe that’s where Brad can find his niche.
We can make it a thing.



Dude, you are complete #######. You are making fun of a Clemson basketball fan for caring about a non-conference game at the beginning of the season.

You should not be taken seriously.

Something tells me that if we wouldn’t have had a successful non-conference record, you would use that as a talking point to bash brownell. You only don’t care because we were undefeated in the non-conference.

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Re: Sometimes I think you make good points. But not this time.


Apr 2, 2021, 5:34 PM


“A dynamic coach should be able to overcome challenges”

Do you have a coach in mind that is dynamic enough to cover come the huge hurdles at Clemson basketball?

So you know how hard it is to find and hire a dynamic coach? And if you do find a dynamic coach that has success at Clemson, do you think he would stick around?

The last two “good” coaches didn’t. Oliver Purnell left for freaking DePaul!

At some point you have to make the job attractive enough to make a big time hire.


Other schools like Chicago Loyloa,Houston,Alabama have and they are either smaller or non basketball schools. Saying we can not find a better coach is just accepting mediocrity but apparently some so called “fans” are ok with that.

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Re: Sometimes I think you make good points. But not this time.


Apr 2, 2021, 5:34 PM


“A dynamic coach should be able to overcome challenges”

Do you have a coach in mind that is dynamic enough to cover come the huge hurdles at Clemson basketball?

So you know how hard it is to find and hire a dynamic coach? And if you do find a dynamic coach that has success at Clemson, do you think he would stick around?

The last two “good” coaches didn’t. Oliver Purnell left for freaking DePaul!

At some point you have to make the job attractive enough to make a big time hire.


Other schools like Chicago Loyloa,Houston,Alabama have and they are either smaller or non basketball schools. Saying we can not find a better coach is just accepting mediocrity but apparently some so called “fans” are ok with that.

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Please make a list of the huge hurdles that must be


Apr 3, 2021, 12:06 PM

overcome for Clemson basketball to be great. The first key to solving a problem is correctly identifying what the problem is.

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Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 2, 2021, 12:11 PM

Need a commitment from the ADM and a change of mentality from ADM and fans We seem to be pleased with average in basketball This would never work in football but our fans allow this in Basketball

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There is nothing average about our last four years.


Apr 3, 2021, 10:24 AM

Our average finish in the ACC is 6th out of 15 teams.

We have made 2 of the last 3 NCAA Tournaments, including a Sweet 16 run.

We have been above the ACC average, national average, and way above Clemson basketball's historical average.

Our recruiting over the last four years has been above the national average and way above Clemson basketball's historical average.

We have also been way above average in our student-athletes' academic performance and community involvement.

It's great to want continued improvement and success, but continuing to call Clemson basketball average or mediocre over the past four years is ridiculous.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 2, 2021, 1:29 PM



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I for one am glad you are stopping. You are one of the most ignorant posters ever. You obviously think very highly of your own opinion, unlike the rest of us - RockHillTiger


Re: Question for Basketball fans


Apr 3, 2021, 7:20 AM

Look here for what needs to be done.

https://www.lrt-sports.com/blog/top-5-division-1-locker-rooms/


Also look at what Cuban did with Mavericks

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Re: Question for Basketball fans

[1]
Apr 3, 2021, 10:08 AM

This thread is 4 pages long and there was a total of about 3 people that answered the question. It really just shows how much you all don’t get it.

Our last 2 good coaches in your mind left after success. Oliver Purnell left for freaking DePaul. LOL.

How exactly do you think that Clemson football is one of the premier programs in the nation? It’s not only Dabo. It’s because we have one of the highest paid coaching staffs, best facilities, and best support in the nation.

But no, we should be able to keep everything as is and we just have to find that diamond in the rough coach that will just happen to stay with us. That sounds logical. Hey we did upgrade our facilities from last in the acc to middle of the pack. Maybe that will elevate us to consistently finish in the top 3 of the ACC and go to sweet 16s every other year. That makes total sense.

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It's like expecting to become financially independent


Apr 3, 2021, 10:33 AM

by buying a lottery ticket. It might work, but most likely not.

There are better ways of getting there.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


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