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Legend [15746]
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Who’s to blame for current Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
May 12, 2021, 7:52 AM
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Well, there is sort of truth to that. Basically the way it historically has always worked is, the Palestinians have tended to use the bargaining table as a weapon, and have kept the conflict going to achieve gains via international mediation. Trump just plain didn't bargain with them, and instead kicked the can down the road. This sort of emboldened the hard-liners in Israel to grab and fortify a bunch of settlements in the West Bank, which was always going to be unacceptable to the Palos, and then declare Jerusalem the capitol of Israel...again, which was never going to fly.
The settlement issue is particularly thorny, and observers particularly are troubled by the way the Israelis talk about it. You can't even get the Israelis to admit the West Bank was never Jewish territory. They're outright just taking more and more Palestinian land, fortifying the crap out of it, and being as stubborn as a Fox viewer about admitting the election was stolen about admitting it actually was Palestinian land, and this inversion of fact is...emblematic of the kind of problems they're going to have in reaching peace. This is maybe the biggest flashpoint issue:
https://utopiayouarestandinginit.com/2014/08/09/israel-and-the-west-bank/ Israel and the West Bank Israeli settlements cover about 2% of the West Bank and are linked by Israeli-controlled roads. There are also large tracts of Israeli-controlled land designated as military areas or nature reserve…
At the end of the day, the Israelis have started becoming conquerors, liars, and outright oppressors, operating in pure bad faith, and increasingly, it might be time we washed our hands of them.
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110%er [5669]
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Re: Who’s to blame for current Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
May 12, 2021, 9:04 AM
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But what's wrong with the Palestinians and why are they so racist against Israelis? Can't we just make them woke enough to understand that more diversity is a good thing? They should embrace the jews as enriching their society.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Who’s to blame for current Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
May 12, 2021, 9:45 AM
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They're the tiniest bit peeved about the fact that the Israelis took their land, and use machine guns and airstrikes on them.
You know, little things.
America would do well to get as far away from that as possible. That conflict's been going on about a million years now, I don't really see an end date any time soon.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Who’s to blame for current Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
May 12, 2021, 12:48 PM
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All-In [26497]
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The palestinians should go to Europe
May 12, 2021, 2:47 PM
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Europe cant get enough Muslims
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Hall of Famer [24737]
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Legend [15746]
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Putting aside your commentary on Israel...
May 12, 2021, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Who’s to blame for current Israeli-Palestinian conflict? ] |
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because that is not the point of my post...
Trump effectively put Iran in time-out with one missle, had three countries publicly and formally normalize relations with Israel and...seriously, correct me if I'm wrong...maintained a generally stable Middle East during his term in office.
But your arguing that, because he did things different from the way things historically "worked", it's his fault? Because the way things had been going historically had been the recipe for peace?
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Putting aside your commentary on Israel...
May 12, 2021, 10:01 AM
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Basically, if there was a "path to peace" there in Israel, it was to calm the a$$holes down, slowly, over time. Arafat and his gang didn't want peace. They'd negotiate in bad faith, shake hands at a table around Camp David, then go home and launch the Intifada. And then try to get still more. Their whole M.O. was to try to use the bargaining table as a weapon against Israel, try to add the U.S. and U.N. as a bargaining partner against Israel, and they were playing that game cynically and constantly and the US had to learn to stop being used and say: "hey: honor your #$^&ing agreements or no more."
On the other hand, the US didn't need to encourage Israel's hard-liners who just wanted to summarily kick the crap out of the Palestinians and grin them underfoot like roaches either, and that's what the current regime is doing. For a country that was established as a safe haven for Jews who survived the Holocaust the current Israeli regime are increasingly acting remarkably like, well, Nazis, and that's not good either.
The "path to peace", if there was going to be one, was going to be a bunch of hard physical barriers, freedom of work and movement and self-government for the Palestinians, and both sides staying on their side of the line...and both sides respecting the religious symbols and monuments of the other.
Oh, and reasonable people on both sides.
That isn't happening.
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Hall of Famer [24737]
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Arafat was an j-azz but the part about "get still more" is
May 12, 2021, 10:57 PM
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more apropos when applied to Nuttin' Yahoo...
However, your point about Nazis was one I personally made yesterday evening... They're covered, though. Look at Sleepy's White House.
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All-TigerNet [10882]
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The British and the US for carving up the middle east in the
May 12, 2021, 9:14 AM
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early 20th century.
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Legend [16774]
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Someone in the US
May 12, 2021, 10:17 AM
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Suggesting what/how Israelis/Jews should deal with a 'people' no other country wants is the height of arrogance and the very definition of 'leaving one's lane'. Don't profess 'expertise' on a topic when such doesn't exist.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Someone in the US
May 12, 2021, 10:34 AM
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Oh, I'm actually in agreement. I don't really see a happy ending either. I'm just saying, if there's going to be one, that seems the only one both sides might be able to live with and we're a mile off that right now. And so it's bombs away for the foreseeable future.
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All-TigerNet [10882]
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I agree. I don't think we should interfere or send money.***
May 12, 2021, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Someone in the US ] |
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CU Medallion [56055]
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And we shouldn't tell China how to treat the Uighurs, right?***
May 12, 2021, 2:54 PM
[ in reply to Someone in the US ] |
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CU Medallion [60033]
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Palestinian’s want land
May 12, 2021, 10:19 AM
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that isn’t theirs.
This is kind of like FBCoach wanting that sliver of grass that really his neighbors. Just blame the other party for your problems. It’s quite simple really.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Palestinian’s want land
May 12, 2021, 10:30 AM
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Well, until 1948, it was theirs. And then they got marched right off it, forcefully. In hindsight, not the greatest idea, for peace in the region. That's the problem, that land's been trading hands for thousands of years now, often at the point of a sword, and who has a "right" to it is kind of murky. You do an archeological dig over there, it goes fifty layers deep, and you find cultures you never knew existed, and most of them have burn marks over the top of them. A lot of them didn't die peaceful deaths.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Now do before 1948
May 12, 2021, 1:22 PM
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Now do before 1948
May 12, 2021, 2:34 PM
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The Ottoman Turks had a slightly different opinion...and they held that territory well into the 1900's. It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire dissolved after World War I that the territory fell into British hands.
The Jews returned to the area and started buying up land in the Holy Land after World War I, but the original intention in what was called the "Mandatory Period" following WWI was to establish two parallel states, a very small Jewish homeland and a much larger Arab state for the Palestinians because there were a lot more of them. No formal agreement was reached for the next couple decades and the can kept getting kicked down the road, and the later problem was that the math got changed a lot after the Holocaust, and a lot of the Arab states had supported the Axis, so the Palestinians wound up with way less territory than had been the original intention. After a really brutal civil war in 1947-1948, Israel was formally announced as a nation and the Jewish homeland in 1948.
Obviously the Palos hated that, and the Arab states around them didn't like it either, and the fact that the Brits and then the UN forced that arrangement on the Arab world came across as high-handed and "know your place, Muslims." It turned the Palestinians into the cause of the Arab world, turned the Jews into The Enemy, and divided the world into the Western World - the bad guys - and the Arab World, the Victims.
We've been dealing with that ever since.
You can put whatever face on it you want, call one side the "good guys", but at the end of the day, until we find an agreement both sides can deal with, there isn't going to be peace, and we aren't close to there yet.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Now do before 1948
May 12, 2021, 3:11 PM
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CU Medallion [56055]
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In fairness, we won't really miss Oklahoma.
May 12, 2021, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Now do before 1948 ] |
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And as much as I rely on the Bible to be super historically accurate, I'm afraid the Jews were actually preceded by the Natufians who lived in the region around the 10th millennium BCE, so they don't have dibs.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: In fairness, we won't really miss Oklahoma.
May 12, 2021, 3:11 PM
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You remember those burn marks I mentioned?
Any of those NaWhofians left, or did they get Purged by the Chosen Ones?
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: Now do before 1948
May 12, 2021, 10:36 PM
[ in reply to Now do before 1948 ] |
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What's the current deal between God and the Jews? Hasn't God redefined what he wants in his relationship when he sent Jesus Christ down to Earth? Doesn't the New Testament say that Jews are no longer in his favor because the believe Jesus Christ is a fraud? It seems the people of Israel are no longer in his favor. Please explain if you disagree.
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All-TigerNet [10882]
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All-In [34486]
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The Zionist pigs***
May 12, 2021, 11:57 AM
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Legend [17282]
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Israelis and Palestinians.***
May 12, 2021, 12:40 PM
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Legend [17282]
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Israelis and Palestinians.***
May 12, 2021, 12:42 PM
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Starter [354]
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Re: Who’s to blame for current Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
May 13, 2021, 9:49 AM
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Religion is to blame. 100% religion.
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All-In [47750]
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Sippy cup Joe.***
May 13, 2021, 9:51 AM
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