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Replies: 60
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All-In [43991]
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If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 27, 2022, 3:10 PM
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truly cares about our basketball program, they would take their concerns to the athletic department or the coaching staff - not blab to the media about it. They would ask how they can help, and offer their time to assist where needed.
Marshall seems to be a little confused about how great those mid-80s teams were. During Grayson Marshall's Clemson career, Clemson was 74-49, a 60% winning percentage. Those teams were 22-34 in ACC play, a 39% winning percentage. They were 0-4 in the ACC Tournament, 2-3 in the NIT, and 0-1 in the NCAA Tournament. They padded their win totals against some of the weakest non-conference schedules we've ever played.
Grayson played with four future NBA players during his four years at Clemson, yet they never won an ACC Tournament or an NCAA Tournament game. LOL.
Brad has done much better than that in recent seasons, actually winning games in the ACC Tournament and NCAA Tournament - without having any future NBA players. Can you imagine how well Brad would have done with four future NBA players on his team in the last 4-5 years?
Unfortunately, Brad isn't willing to cheat like Cliff Ellis was to assemble his roster.
Also, Grayson should recognize Brad's efforts to involve former players. There was zero effort made by Barnes, Shyatt, or Purnell to involve Clemson basketball alumni. Conversely, Brad organized a reunion game early on in his tenure, in 2012. Grayson was there. Given Grayson's apparent memory issues, perhaps he forgot?
https://youtu.be/isETX1OWsZQ
In this interview, Grayson praised Brownell for involving the alumni when other coaches had not. He also acknowledged what a tough job Clemson basketball is, including the difficulty in recruiting.
I agree with Grayson that we should be better at basketball at Clemson. Brownell agrees. That's why he's working so hard to make that happen, and finally has the support of the AD in doing so.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 27, 2022, 3:21 PM
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Why do you hate Clemson sports so much? And why do you spend so much time aggrandizing Brad Brownell when it has clearly reached the point of negative returns? You either hate everything about Clemson and are using Brownell as your strange hook knowing you’re turning everyone off. Or you hate everything but Brad and are too blind to realize you aren’t helping in any way. You’ve lost this debate a long time ago.
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110%er [5465]
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Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 27, 2022, 9:58 PM
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The post from JK aka CBB’s water boy is as expected. And viztiz is so right.
Message was edited by: lthom022®
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Freshman [-97]
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Re: Why are you such a ######
Jul 7, 2022, 7:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend" ] |
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Look who is the real hater.... JK is a Clemson fan and a BB fan, leave it at that., I will state I am a BB fan more than a Clemson fan. If you want to title anyone it should be me. This post that JK posted is about facts. Which you seem to exclude. Just because he posts facts doesn't make him a Clemson hater it just shows the truth unlike yourself. So I'm guessing you are a believer in Q or you think the election was rigged as well? Go with the narrative vs the truth and it puts you in the crazy people talk.
(Side note you can still be a REP and not go with the notion that it was rigged or believing in crazy Q talk)
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Heisman Winner [139870]
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Tilt...
Jun 27, 2022, 3:22 PM
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"Tilt is a poker term for a state of mental or emotional confusion or frustration in which a player adopts a less than optimal strategy, usually resulting in the player becoming overly aggressive. Tilting is closely associated with another poker term, "steam".
Placing an opponent on tilt or dealing with being on tilt oneself is an important aspect of poker. It is a relatively frequent occurrence due to frustration, animosity against other players, or simply bad luck." -Wiki
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Oculus Spirit [79980]
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Full steam ahead***
Jun 27, 2022, 3:57 PM
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Tilt...
Jun 27, 2022, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to Tilt... ] |
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His tilt response is exclusively to go “all-in” but that triggers his self loathing since Dabo uses that term.
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Legend [15976]
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Just lol. You are really something else JK..
Jun 27, 2022, 4:10 PM
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All-In [43991]
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Do you think Grayson's comments were productive
Jun 27, 2022, 4:37 PM
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and in the best interest of Clemson basketball?
Because I don't.
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Orange Blooded [2474]
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Yes.***
Jun 27, 2022, 5:07 PM
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Orange Blooded [2474]
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If they move Brad one centimeter closer to kicking rocks
Jun 27, 2022, 5:10 PM
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Then they were beneficial.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Do you think Grayson's comments were productive
Jun 27, 2022, 5:08 PM
[ in reply to Do you think Grayson's comments were productive ] |
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It seems there are less than a handful on this board that are in the Brad fan club. The rest just want to win in all Clemson sports. If Brad wanted them involved, why only one year did he get them involved. Was he in over his head?
The Acc has been a tough BB conference for years. There were no easy games. Clemson usually has about a ten win start to every season. Easy teams for the most part with the exception of one or two teams.
Basketball back in the day was fun to watch at Clemson. Today, not so much. It’s the coaches job to build his players up to compete and win. It’s time for a change.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Do you think Grayson's comments were productive
Jun 28, 2022, 1:48 PM
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Actually all fans want winning programs at Clemson. The divide comes in deciding the best path to accomplish that goal. Basically it’s changing g coaches vs investment in the program. Labeling fans who disagree with you as not wanting to win does nothing but divide our fans
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CU Guru [1620]
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Re: Do you think Grayson's comments were productive
Jun 28, 2022, 3:33 PM
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Isn’t that exactly what your alter ego did when he created this post ?
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All-In [28200]
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CU Guru [1893]
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Orange Blooded [4446]
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Re: Do you think Grayson's comments were productive
Jun 27, 2022, 8:44 PM
[ in reply to Do you think Grayson's comments were productive ] |
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He is being realistic. Wake up Judge. Mens Clemson Basketball stinks. You are blinded by your support of Brownell.
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Legend [15976]
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I'll assume you're being serious so I'll give a serious...
Jun 27, 2022, 10:12 PM
[ in reply to Do you think Grayson's comments were productive ] |
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...answer. Grayson's comments were certainly not inflammatory nor overtly critical of Coach Brownell. He said he likes Brad, but wants and expects better for Clemson Basketball. As we all do. I see nothing in his comments that should rile anyone up, much less cause you to refer to him as some kind of comical "legend" and then add the snarky "lol" when recapping the team's record during his time here. It was a very different time in a very different ACC. Our coach, who you obviously greatly admire, is not getting the job done NOW in a much weaker ACC. It's been TWELVE YEARS of the same mediocre results. It's really that simple.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I'll assume you're being serious so I'll give a serious...
Jun 28, 2022, 10:57 AM
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Well he did say a couple things that are untrue.
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Orange Blooded [2846]
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Legend [16219]
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Yep. I certainly do.
Jun 28, 2022, 11:16 AM
[ in reply to Do you think Grayson's comments were productive ] |
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I think it helps the program overall by adding another frustrated voice to the mix, one that the BOT and department leadership can't help but hear. To me this kind of statement helps ensure that the bar isn't shifted around further to keep rewarding 'almost' and 'potential' as Brad's disappointing tenure wears on. With student and fan support at near all-time lows (if not simply 'at'), it's important that those calling the shots understand the full breadth of disappointment, and that any lack of volume of requests for change may be more indicative of a dangerous apathy for the program rather than simply a sign of complacency.
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All-In [43991]
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You seem to think that the AD doesn’t get it.
Jun 28, 2022, 2:42 PM
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Neff gets it. He understands that fans want us to be better at basketball. Yelling louder about it isn’t going to get his attention more.
We get it, some of you have decided that we need a new basketball coach and nothing Neff can say or do will change your mind. You’re entitled to your opinion, but why not let Neff do his job and give some of his program investments time to take effect?
To me, the time to whine and call for a change would be after this season. We know Brad will be back for this season, so public comments like Grayson’s are both poor timing and unproductive.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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"You’re entitled to your opinion" but you shouldn't share it
Jun 28, 2022, 2:50 PM
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LOLOL
Is your continued whining about our top tier football program(and fan base) and what your precious doesn't have productive?
JK logic = Basketball expectations bad, excuses good
Per the usual you're talking out both sides and reiterating that to you, the only opinion that matters is yours....
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110%er [8008]
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The time to whine and call for a change is after the season?
Jun 28, 2022, 5:05 PM
[ in reply to You seem to think that the AD doesn’t get it. ] |
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That seems to be your stock answer.
During the season any complaint about Brad, you say wait until the season is over. Give him a chance to fix it.
When we lose players to the portal you say wait and see how Brad replaces those players.
Wait until Brad gets the upgrades to Littlejohn.
Wait til Brad gets…on and on and on.
Now here we are in the offseason of season 12 and you’re saying wait until after NEXT SEASON!
It’s ridiculous.
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Legend [16219]
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And there you go yet again.
Jun 28, 2022, 5:51 PM
[ in reply to You seem to think that the AD doesn’t get it. ] |
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Wrong, and twisting others words to establish a false front. Sad.
I trust Neff. To date he has done nothing to shake my full confidence in his abilities or his readiness for the job, including passing on moving on from Brown L this past season. From both his basketball and baseball statements I gathered this: Due diligence showed he had a good opportunity to pull the trigger on baseball. Considering the process and A+ hires that followed - a job expertly performed. With basketball, he did not sense a similar opportunity for such a long-term commitment, especially in the more limited timeframe he had to operate within on that one. So he passed. Check.
To add to your incessant broken record whining on the subject, I don't recall Neff saying Clemson had not done enough for basketball, or Brad, only that we can do more, which in actuality we are seeing in every program across the entire suite of sports we compete in, basketball included. Hint: It won't fix Brad, because his failures aren't about resources, they're about abilities. Wish it weren't so, but it ere (See: 12-year coaching resume). Timing wise, it would have been difficult to get our right guy for basketball with our schoolwide NIL program in its infancy, our roster in flux, and our AD not having been in the seat long enough to establish a sense of trust with the top level coaching community. Check.
Our hiring and finances are larger than just what the AD wants to do. As I stated, and you predictably skipped over in this sad woe is me-a-thon, the BOT plays a role, and I'm glad they will all hear the words of a Clemson basketball legend when the opportunity presents itself, again. Grayson's words speak much more than a T-Net posting Brown L fan girl, regardless of when they are shared.
If you want to stop talking Clemson basketball and its future until the end of the next season, then I certainly invite you to do so. It would be welcomed relief.
Go Tigers.
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Legend [16820]
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All-In [40736]
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Sheesh. You must be part of some kind of propaganda study***
Jun 27, 2022, 4:15 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Sheesh. You must be part of some kind of propaganda study***
Jun 27, 2022, 4:27 PM
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What did he say that was wrong?
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Legend [15976]
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Exactly. What did Grayson say that was wrong?***
Jun 27, 2022, 10:19 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Exactly. What did Grayson say that was wrong?***
Jun 28, 2022, 10:58 AM
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No, I was posting in reference to another poster.
Nothing the judge said is factually incorrect in his post.
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110%er [6153]
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Re: Sheesh. You must be part of some kind of propaganda study***
Jun 27, 2022, 11:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sheesh. You must be part of some kind of propaganda study*** ] |
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If by “he” you mean “me” I think the first step is to acknowledge what a sad human being you are that pops in and out of no less than three different screen names in a post to make it seem like more than one person holds the twisted and deranged opinions you do regarding this lifeless basketball coach.
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All-TigerNet [13693]
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Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 27, 2022, 4:47 PM
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Classic JK - doing a ratio of anyone who disagrees
Jun 27, 2022, 5:12 PM
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To imply that Grayson or anyone does not care about the basketball program is classic JK. Read his words. “Blab”, “confused”, “cares”, “cheat”, to name a few.. then minimize his and the teams accomplishments by saying he played with too much talent. To not understand that the ACC back then was infinitely stronger than it is today. IMO- those teams would mop the floor with the vast majority of the ACC of today. To act like winning against the weak ACC is a major accomplishment compared to back then is simply trash.
Quit attacking Grayson or anyone who disagrees with you JK. They are entitled to their view, and much closer to it than you and most if not all of us. He lived it and still does.
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All-In [37610]
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Very "Fatherly" Poast...
Jun 27, 2022, 5:16 PM
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Are you sure Brad is not your son or daughter? You sound like a father taking up for his child when they did something questionable.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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He probably already did and thus his frustration at what
Jun 27, 2022, 5:23 PM
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seems to him to be an obvious problem.
Much like those of us who contacted DRAD years ago and here we are in year 12.
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Legend [19567]
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Players Grayson Marshall played against
Jun 27, 2022, 9:03 PM
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Michael Jordan, Len Bias, James Worthy, Sam Perkins, Johnny Dawkins, Ralph Sampson, Brad Daugherty, Mark Price, Danny Ferry.
Who in the last 10 years in the ACC measures up to that?
And if Grayson isn't hurt and unable to play in the ACC tourney and NCAA tourney, that team had a chance at a really good run.
Best pure PG in Clemson history, and it's not even close.
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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Well...except for Skip Wise! :)***
Jun 27, 2022, 10:03 PM
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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I'll take that back, Striper...your did say pure point guard
Jun 27, 2022, 10:05 PM
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Skip Wise was more of a combo guard. Grayson was a great point guard!
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Oculus Spirit [78784]
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Legend [16219]
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Led us to 4 straight NCAA appearances including
Jun 28, 2022, 1:37 PM
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Brad's Year One effort.
RIP, Demontez.
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Legend [19567]
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Loved Stitt
Jul 7, 2022, 7:51 PM
[ in reply to Not trying to hijack a thread . . . ] |
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he was still more of a combo guard than pure PG. We've had very few pure PG's in the last 50 years. Bobby Conrad was tough as nails but limited physically. Ed Scott was excellent. Boogie probably the second best pure PG.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Associate AD [838]
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CU Guru [1620]
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Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 27, 2022, 9:09 PM
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 27, 2022, 9:51 PM
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I have absolutely no issues with his comments. They are fair, justified, and reasonable.
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110%er [6977]
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So predictable
Jun 27, 2022, 10:21 PM
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Maybe you could at least try to not be so predictable?
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All-In [31199]
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Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 28, 2022, 5:46 AM
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He was just stating the obvious.
I believe comparing BB’s record to previous coaches at Clemson is a little misleading. The ACC is a lot different than it was 15 years ago. ACC was a powerhouse in basketball and it was not even close. Was a day when I expected an ACC team to win the National Championship and now minus a few good teams like UNC this year I just hope we have some teams make some deep runs.
If the truth be known I’m thinking Grayson kept it about as friendly as he could in regards to the program.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: If Grayson Marshall or any other Clemson "legend"
Jun 28, 2022, 6:42 AM
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Best team at Clemson ever was under Ellis. We actually camped for tickets, stood in line for 24hr+ with friends swapping out camping site. The arena was beyond capacity on most home games. It's amazing what good teams that play fun ball attracts fans, especially when you think you could win any game. Some of the most exciting games when the ACC was dominant. Teams today don't come close with 1-done. That CU Ellis team would be tournament champs today era.
Style of bball and having a coach that never smiles plus always makes a face of disgust with players, this hinders CBB's connection with fans. Brownell just never had the happy face that warms fans. Then add boring style of ball and losses that are mind-blowing that end as a giant "L" when ge is over.
Truly I'm a fan a CBB, great man, mentor, and knows bball. But seriously, if CBB is not loved by 90% of the fans, not engaged with fans in a happy space, obviously not building great relationships with players on regular basis as 1/4-1/3 or more players leave every season.
I guess all this to say that CBB is a great mentor and ambassador of CU. I liked him for Clemson for 4-6yrs but it's time to cut bait. We are who we are under Brad. Its time for CBB to go back to a Western Carolina, South Florida, Charlotte or sone school like that. He no longer belongs in the ACC.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Typical drivel
Jun 28, 2022, 9:32 AM
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"they would take their concerns to the athletic department or the coaching staff - not blab to the media about it. They would ask how they can help, and offer their time to assist where needed."
Do you have any proof that he hasn't done this?
Also, nice job pulling up something from 10 years ago to "prove" that your precious has involved alumni when others aren't. Anything more recent that shows this wasn't a one time or short lived theme?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Typical drivel
Jun 28, 2022, 11:02 AM
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In Brad brownell's press conference after the season and after Llewelyn committed he said that Llewelyn spoken to Amir Simms and other players.
So yes, Marshall was wrong and he has no clue what he's talking about. He's probably but hurt that brownell doesn't reach out to him to talk to recruits. Nobody outside of Clemson fans know who Grayson Marshall is, much less 18 year old kids.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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A. How'd that work out with Llewelyn?
Jun 28, 2022, 11:12 AM
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B. Did Brad clearly say he utilized Amir in that capacity or was it something Amir took on himself? Also Link?
C. Do you really think you know/understand more about our bb program than a Clemson great?
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Legend [19567]
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Saying Grayson has no idea what he's talking about
Jul 7, 2022, 7:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Typical drivel ] |
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Is just dumb. He's tied in with all our former players, especially the really good ones. I know many former players. They all say about the same thing. Brad's a good guy, but it's 12 STINKING YEARS. And in year 12 we have no real PG, and one post player who can play with his back to the basket on the team.
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CU Medallion [64972]
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I think that Brownell is actually recruiting now in the
Jun 28, 2022, 9:39 AM
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easiest era that has ever been for Clemson, when compared to the other ACC schools. The conference as a whole is down on power, and "The North Carolina Schools" no longer have a lock on recruiting talent.
For whatever reason, it is more than obvious that Brownell now seeks to recruit from the transfer portal much more than he does high school. While that could be a stopgap now and then, it will NEVER result in consistently good teams, because there will never be those multiple years to build team chemistry before those players are gone. It's an old argument, but still true, nonetheless.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I think that Brownell is actually recruiting now in the
Jun 28, 2022, 11:04 AM
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You do realize that we went toe to toe with Duke in getting Zion. He went to Duke because they paid him and his family. How exactly do you expect Clemson to compete with that?
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Heisman Winner [139870]
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That's one player...
Jun 28, 2022, 11:14 AM
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how about the others?
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All-In [31199]
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Re: I think that Brownell is actually recruiting now in the
Jun 28, 2022, 12:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: I think that Brownell is actually recruiting now in the ] |
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Were we really going toe to toe with Duke for Zion?
When have we ever been toe to toe with anyone on a 5star. I called BS when that was even brought up. Does not matter we did not get him anyway.
Maybe we beat out some top tier teams for Jennings but not sure he was a legit 5 star.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: I think that Brownell is actually recruiting now in the
Jun 28, 2022, 3:19 PM
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We’ll never really know if Jennings could have been a true 5 star because the coaching staff certainly failed to get the most out of him. It’s fine to believe that Jennings’ ceiling was lower than hoped. But, after watching 12 seasons of mediocre player development, it’s crazy to not lay some of the blame at Brownell’s feet. The highest ranked basketball recruiting class in Clemson history regressed three consecutive years under his tutelage.
(Cue the Brownell Bros and recruiting rankings don’t matter arguments)
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Exactly...People talk about Jennings and Johnson with dismay
Jun 28, 2022, 3:28 PM
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but they signed on to play for another coach with a DRASTICALLY different philosophy. Who knows how they would've developed under OP vs BB.
Literally our 3 highest rated recruits ever according to 247 came out of that 2009 class, but OP left the cupboard bare and it wasn't real momentum he was building here and we can't expect to win or reach the NCAAT consistently, etc.
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Legend [16900]
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HE. WAS. NEVER. COMING. TO. CLEMSON.
Jun 28, 2022, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: I think that Brownell is actually recruiting now in the ] |
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How is it a defense of Brownell that the one time he really really tried his very bestest to recruit a big time recruit he failed? And some of us knew it was a waste and that the family was using us but apparently not our coaching staff. We did not go “toe to toe” with Duke. We were cuckolded by Zion and Duke.
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110%er [7913]
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Then why don’t you directly address Grayson instead
Jul 7, 2022, 7:54 PM
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of using the same approach - he’s readily available to speak - I’ve talked to him many times on Facebook messenger
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