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Orange Blooded [3740]
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What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 7:35 AM
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Hypothetically, lets say the other guys just aren't ready to overtake Bryant, but Kelly still has issues all year in the passing game. We know he's a dynamic runner, but for the most part our offense looks like a cross between 2016's Auburn offense and 2014's Stoudt led Clemson offense. Let also assume that our Defense stays basically at the same level it's been the past 2 years. That's a very good defense, but they've also given up 30 or more points 9 times out of 30 games the last 2 years (basically once ever 3 games).
With our schedule this year, what's our record? I'd say 8-4, but we'd be an unlucky break away from being 7-5. With how good we've been in close games the last several years, we're probably due a year where we get the short end of the stick.
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Oculus Spirit [96772]
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Our defense will be better this year so that's not a concern
Jul 19, 2017, 7:42 AM
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With mediocre quarterback play we might loose 2-3 games but don't see our defense giving up 30+ points very often unless we come down with a severe case of fumbleitis.
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CU Guru [1845]
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Re: Our defense will be better this year so that's not a concern
Jul 19, 2017, 10:01 AM
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The year Cole Stoudt was the QB was one of the best Clemson defenses ever, but three and out Stoudt kept them on the field and you could see it wear on them
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Heisman Winner [111193]
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Re: Our defense will be better this year so that's not a concern
Jul 19, 2017, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Our defense will be better this year so that's not a concern ] |
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with the lack of proven dpeth up front, those games that were decided in the 4th quarter last year may not tip in our direction. This team will need to run the ball and control the TOP.
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All-In [30753]
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15-0***
Jul 19, 2017, 7:47 AM
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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^^^^ correct answer***
Jul 19, 2017, 10:11 AM
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CU Guru [1358]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 7:47 AM
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There aren't 5 losses anywhere on our schedule. I believe 4 losses would be due to many injuries and turnovers. IMO Louisville, fsu, auburn are the only teams that have the players to stay on the field w us.
And Louisville is a stretch, I have a feeling we do them dirty this year.
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Orange Blooded [3740]
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@ VT and @ NCST will be tough places for us to win
Jul 19, 2017, 8:34 AM
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without solid QB play. Also, even though SCar is terrible, it's a rivalry game. They'll be sky high for that game at home no matter how their season has gone. It's really hard to win rivalry games on the road with shaky QB play. That would not be a cake walk either.
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110%er [5280]
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Re: @ VT and @ NCST will be tough places for us to win
Jul 19, 2017, 10:31 AM
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I honestly don't get how you can lump NC St in that....I guess several forget the only reason that game was close (along with Pitt, Louisville, Troy) is high turnovers that they capitalized on...NC State game had 4 alone.....Pitt 3, Louisville 5, Troy 3.
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Orange Blooded [3740]
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We haven't had an easy game in Raleigh since 2009
Jul 19, 2017, 10:40 AM
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NCST always gets up for home games vs us and FSU. With their D-Line, that will definitely be a tough game for us if our QB play is not up to snuff.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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Last year Pitt & NC state wasn't on the list of teams.......
Jul 19, 2017, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play? ] |
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that could keep up with us on the field.
point is we lost a game to our schedule.....it happens.
IMO VT, FSU, auburn, louisville, & NCState pose the biggest threat and all are very capable of "staying with us on the field" especially considering the question mark @ QB.
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CU Guru [1476]
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Worst Case Scenerio 10-2
Jul 19, 2017, 2:58 PM
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FSU is the only team on our level in talent.
Auburn may play with us due to great QB play.
UL WF NCST VT BC GT are not close to us top to bottom talent, scheme, and process-wise.
We are way more deep across the board than in 2014. Our QB would have to be completely inept for us to lose > 2 games and I don't see 3 -4* QB's & a 5* QB being inept.
Our Process is different now. These teams cannot stay on the field with us for four quarters. It's not 2008 anymore. This is a Dynasty. We are a legit heavyweight now. You cannot roll in here with a bunch of 3* RS Jr's and eek one out on us with crafty playcalling. We are literally a winning machine now.
The is the most experienced team we have had top to bottom in a long time. Not to mention the most talented where it counts, in the trenches.
10-2 in the Orange Bowl is the absolute floor unless there is an apocolypse.
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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2016 Auburn offense actually finished with a OFF S&P+ of
Jul 19, 2017, 8:13 AM
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34.6 which isn't terrible. They had a stretch of games where their offense was very good. Our OFF S&P+ in 2014 was only 27.5 and that was with several big games from Watson. For comparison, our 2015 and 2016 offenses finished at 42.2 and 41.2 (2015 was slightly better, mostly because our OL and running game were more effective).
Defensive S&P+ for the last 3 years have been 12.2 (we led the country in 2014), 16.0 (late season swoon hurt in 2015), and 13.7. Something around 13.0 seems reasonable for this year given what we return.
If our offense is somewhere between 2014 Clemson and 2016 Auburn, that would put it around 31.0 which would've ranked in the mid 50's last year. Teams with similar offensive ratings in 2016: VT, Kentucky, Cuse, NC State, Arizona St, Utah. Not great, but not completely dreadful.
The 31.0 offensive rating combined with the 13.0 defensive rating would be good for an overall S&P+ margin of +18. Teams that finished in the +18 to +19 range last year include Louisville, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, USC, and Penn State. I believe all of those teams finished the regular season at either 9-3 or 10-2. That group also includes 2 conference champs, 4 NY6 bowl participants, and the mighty Lewisville Cardinals.
The lowest playoff team was Washington at +20.6, however Michigan St made it in 2015 at +14 (though it was higher before Bama annihilated them in the playoff), and FSU's 2014 playoff team finished at +14.8
Overall i think we would still be looking at a 9 or maybe even 10 win season with that caliber of offense. Depending on where the losses occurred we would have an outside shot at winning the conference.
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110%er [8197]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 8:57 AM
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"Without competent", so you're asking us to imagine a scenario where Kelly, Johnson, and Israel are all unable to play. I think global thermonuclear war would probably cancel all of the games.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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If our QB play isn't competent at all.........
Jul 19, 2017, 9:00 AM
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then i'd say 8-4/7-5 (b/c at that point FSU, NCSt, Ville, Auburn, & VT are all "loss possibilities")
However i don't see all 4/5 QBs being completely incompetent. I believe we have 5 QBs that are better (worst case as good as) cole stoudt........and we won 10 w/ him. IMO 2-3 of those QBs could be as good or better than Tajh........and we won 10 w/ him as well. I think we're in good shape at QB my expectation is 10-11 regular season wins.
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Orange Blooded [3740]
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It's not unreasonable considering the following:
Jul 19, 2017, 10:50 AM
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- If Kelly doesn't progress in the passing game
- Isreal clearly has a physical ailment
- Hunter and Brice play like a typical Freshman and Zerrick plays like a typical Redshirt Freshman since neither of them have any experience
This doesn't mean that Hunter, Chase, and Zerrick are bad QBs. They'd just be too young and inexperienced to win big games for us right now.
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Athletic Dir [889]
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Who was our last incompetent QB?***
Jul 19, 2017, 9:05 AM
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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Touchy subject, but I'll bite. I think anything below 7.0
Jul 19, 2017, 9:30 AM
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YPA is really bad, and anything below 6.0 YPA is dreadful. Adjusted YPA is similar but accounts for TDs and INTs and is usually a little higher than YPA for good QBs and sometimes lower for bad QBs (they throw more INTs than TDs).
2014 Stoudt - 6.3 YPA, 5.4 AYPA
2010 Parker - 6.5 YPA, 5.7 AYPA
2004 Whitehurst - 5.9 YPA, 4.1 AYPA (7 TDs, 17 INTs)
2002 Simmons - 6.4 YPA, 5.6 AYPA
So, interestingly enough, the only season of truly incompetent QB play we've had in the last 15 years was 2004 Whitehurst. We've has several other bad seasons though. Honestly i expected 2006 Will Proctor to best on the list, but he actually put up 7.7 / 7.2 that year. He certainly struggled later in the year though against teams like VT and Maryland.
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Athletic Dir [889]
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Thats what i was getting at with our Def any of the QBs
Jul 19, 2017, 9:35 AM
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you listed could win 10 games this year. Possible back to the playoffs if the ball bounces our way in a few games.
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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To defend Whitehurst's 2004 season a little bit, we had an
Jul 19, 2017, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to Touchy subject, but I'll bite. I think anything below 7.0 ] |
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absolutely horrendous WR corp that year. It was basically Airese Currie (868 yards) and nobody else. Chansi Stuckey was the 2nd leading receiver on the team with 280 yards and it was his first season at WR after being converted from QB. After that it was Kelvin Grant at 274 yards, Baham at 188, Ben Hall at 142, and Duane Coleman with 125. Yuck!
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Oculus Spirit [93580]
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Now hold on just a minute.
Jul 19, 2017, 9:33 AM
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Using the word 'competent,' and modifying it with 'without,' when talking about our QBs is not only distasteful to me it's insulting to Clemson Football. I'm doubting you intended to come across that way for that insults our OCs, HC along with our QB's coach and our fine young QB corp.
It's the exact same as calling them 'incompetent.'
We won't have Watson this year, so what? How many National Championships have been won without a DW under center? How many conference championships, how many games? Who out there has a Watson on their team this year?
Don't get me wrong on what I'm about to say, ok? I love Watson and believe he's one of the top three quarterbacks to ever wear a Tigerpaw but there was a heck of a lot more on the field than Watson for the past three years.
Every year we lose players and so many stress over the losses so much they ignore those who fill the position of those who move on. You guys spend too much time reading articles about Clemson Football which are written by those who have short memories. You might want to considering some short sweet facts.
#1 Truism. Every year we get better at every position. I know you can pick at this and find minor exceptions but you'll struggle to find a position that we didn't replace a draft pick with another draft pick and most of the time working the replacement's backup in the lineup too.
2# Truism: We get better as a team every stinking year, we accomplish more and seem to maintain an unsustainable level of intensity again and again.
#3 Truism: Dabo takes his foot off the gas by playing backups early. It became clear at the end of the NC game that Dabo had thrown the younguns in the fire early and often daring them to fail and cost us a game. I didn't like it but I knew it was the right thing to do. There were so many games we changed the perfect gameplan to get our troops experienced with win or lose pressure. It tortured fans all year but it hardened our guys and turned boys into men.
Our 'close games,' were design not fate. OSU was one of the best teams we played, 31-0.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Now hold on just a minute.
Jul 19, 2017, 9:38 AM
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What will be our record this year with great quarterback play. It's why we have 4-4 stars and one 5- star!!!!!!!! Another playoff season.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Now hold on just a minute.
Jul 19, 2017, 9:50 AM
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I agree and anyone who can't see that we just might--I said ,might---just be a better OVERALL team than last year. Our D will be something to see and we've got all positions covered on O. True Clemson fane need to have some faith in Dabo and his coaches who have done a marvelous job to date. Our recruiting is top notch and candidly I believe we go either 12-0 or 11-1. This scariest game to me is at The Puppy Pack!
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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Oh don't start this. It reminds me of when many people
Jul 19, 2017, 10:16 AM
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thought our offense would be better with Cole Stoudt than Tajh Boyd.
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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Truism #3 doesn't apply to our QB situation though.
Jul 19, 2017, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to Now hold on just a minute. ] |
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Since Nick was the backup the last 2 years and got most of the mop up duty, Kelly Bryant has attempted a grand total of 35 passes in live games while Israel has attempted 4. Cooper and Johnson have never even taken a snap.
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110%er [5280]
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Re: Now hold on just a minute.
Jul 19, 2017, 10:35 AM
[ in reply to Now hold on just a minute. ] |
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"close games were design, not fate"....I think turnover margins of 3 (Pitt), 4 (NC State), 5 (Louisville), 2 (FSU), and 3 (Troy) would like to disagree.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 10:37 AM
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Your hypothesis displeases me .
I shant reply to the dubious premise.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 11:59 AM
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Louisville, auburn, fsu, nc state, and South Carolina will all beat clemson this year. Should be a fun year
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All-In [28193]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 12:05 PM
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probably - good thing we have 2 national champion trophies in our case. well, there's always next year. sadly, we can't win the national championship every year, but every other year is fine. btw, now that usuck is an all girls school, do you plan on keeping c0cks in your name??
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110%er [5280]
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110%er [8681]
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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Hmm, one of those teams has absolutely no business
Jul 19, 2017, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play? ] |
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being in the company of the other 4.
Louisville - 9 wins and the Heisman winner
Auburn - NY6 appearance
FSU - 2017 title contender
NC State - returns like 18 starters off a pretty darn good team
South Carolina - Didn't lose to an FCS team in 2016!
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All-In [40719]
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Is this you Jake Bentley?
Jul 19, 2017, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play? ] |
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I know, South Carolina only lost by five the previous season and that meant they would beat us last year. How did that work out? I know you believe that a team that beat you by 49 points is not that much better than you if at all but you obviously don't know much about college football. We may lose a couple of games but one of them will most definitely not be against the chickens. Your program is pathetic. Your coach is a joke. You have no OL or defense. Jake's QBR against Clemson was like 7. The same guys are back on defense for the most part. Clemson will not have to score more than 20 to beat your sorry chickens. Your boy Skai Moore would not start at Clemson neither would any of your receivers. Clemson will dominate you again in Columbia this year. The two programs are light years apart right now.
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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I suggest you settle down and get more rest
Jul 19, 2017, 1:43 PM
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at night. Maybe some warm milk before bed, or a half a banana and a melatonin tab. And cut electronics off by 9. You'll feel better in the morning.
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All-American [555]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 2:03 PM
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anywhere from 8-4 to 10-2. FSU and Louisville are losses.
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All-In [40719]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 2:10 PM
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I wouldn't count Louisville as a loss. Their talent is dropping off each year as more of Strong's guys move on. You obviously have not watched them. FSU? Maybe. Louisville? No. What you doing on a Clemson board anyway?
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110%er [8681]
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CU Guru [1593]
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Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play?
Jul 19, 2017, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: What'll be our record this yr without competent QB play? ] |
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We will still have a better season than UGA will.
You know the kind of season elite programs have.
I guess you DONT know anything about that being a Dawg fan and all.
CLEMSON has left UGA in the rear view mirror
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Orange Blooded [3336]
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8-4? 7-5!?
Jul 19, 2017, 2:49 PM
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All of our QB's would have to fall off the planet for that to happen. I've said it before, our defense will be good enough this year to win us 9 games. The other 3, our defense can keep us in the game but will need help from the offense. I know Bryant isnt a world beater but he at least has an amazing run element that Stoudt didn't have. Yeah, Cole was amazing in RA Bowl and hoo-rah he paid his dues waiting 4 years. I certainly ate crow after the RA Bowl because of that. I was still so proud of him after that game and that was the way he deserved to go out. But still, he wasn't the greatest QB but I think KB could've got us 11-1 at least for the 2014 team. If we can get a run game this year that's actually truly threatening, I believe 11-1 isn't a stretch. 12-0 isn't a stretch either. It'll take a catastrophe like no other for 7-5. I'm not saying KB is who I want starting either but he isn't that bad. Grief! We are loaded at QB, chances are we're going to have one be ready to at least be a field general and keep us on field for a few minutes at a time.
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110%er [6873]
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9-3, 10-3 after bowl.***
Jul 19, 2017, 3:19 PM
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