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YOUR BALANCE
I have been critical of Brownell's tenure
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I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 8:48 AM

and I will continue to be until we see sustained success from season to season. This doesn't mean I want him fired, I want the best for our basketball program.

I am however very happy for our basketball team, players and coaches, to see them playing a bit better and slapping Tobacco Road around a bit. I couldn't think of a better group to lay the smack down on. I will continue to pull for them, as I always have, and hope that these wins are the start of something that can become more routine.


Go Tigers!

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 9:08 AM



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Why do dogs always race to the door when the doorbell rings? It's almost never for them.


Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 9:12 AM

Hillary is so fun and so natural. She just comes across as real, down to Earth, and just fun and hip.

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Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 9:16 AM



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Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 10:13 AM [ in reply to Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure ]

You’re joking right? BENGHAZI. That’s all I have to say concerning that evil woman.

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Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 10:16 AM [ in reply to Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure ]

Unfortunately, I am just too "deplorable" to even understand what she was doing in that clip. People like me can never enter her elite group.

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I get jokes***


Jan 15, 2020, 12:16 PM [ in reply to Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure ]



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Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 5:37 PM [ in reply to Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure ]

Chelsea taught her. Or, at least she tried.

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Really, really happy for our players. Young men representing


Jan 15, 2020, 9:10 AM

Clemson both on and off court very well. Effort has been there for years.

Regarding CBB, my adult son and I were commenting recently that when the Tigers run the offense, we get open looks and other good shot opportunities inside. Knocking down open threes and converting at the rim are the essential scoring mechanisms in today’s game. Players have got to have these skills to win.

What is frustrating is that this year’s team has a lot of overall basketball skill, you figure these guys HAVE to be able to shoot and score. We HAVE done that the last three games.

Keep the confidence!

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one thing i've noticed that we added is the back cut


Jan 15, 2020, 9:24 AM

which leads to going to the bucket and either getting a foul or a high percentage shot..this has been lacking since he's been here and evidently is what we have to have in order to compete. I have never seen this much aggression on offense from us in years. I'm used to the dribble around until the shot clock says 5 and then try and find a shooter on the perimeter which hasn't worked. This motion, back cut offense does work. I like it. Whatever assistant coach they hired and implement this, that person was well worth the money. Now that we're getting to the line more..whoever is in charge of teaching free throws needs to get that on the agenda as well.

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It's certainly a lot more fun to watch than


Jan 15, 2020, 9:34 AM

passing the ball around for 20 seconds looking like there's no real plan then firing up a three before the shot clock expires.

Because the latter seems to have been Clemson's offensive strategy for the last couple of seasons.

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GO TIGERS!!


That has never been our strategy.***


Jan 15, 2020, 1:16 PM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Brad's offense has always been aggressive in nature from


Jan 15, 2020, 11:22 AM [ in reply to one thing i've noticed that we added is the back cut ]

an x's and o's standpoint when executed properly. He hasnt changed it much year to year. He may have added wrinkles here and there, but the structure hasnt changed. It is an offense that depends on the players being aggressive and being willing/able to be confident, active, and attacking. Unfortunately, whether it be through lack of talent, lack of confidence, or lack of proper coaching our players at times go into a passive mode where either they are not confident in their abilities or dont want to take a chance in turning the ball over. Thus you get the dribbling and passing around and the heaving of a last second shot.

His offense when run correctly is based on passing the ball around the perimeter with lots of action (slashers/cutters) from away from the ball. The ball movement is meant to create an angle to feed one of the slasher/cutters. The cutters then get the ball and either go to the rim or dish it back out for an open 3. This requires good ball movement and good passers and players that aggressively attack without the ball in their hands. Everyone has to stay aggressive and be on the same page because it is also a timing issue. The ball swing and the cut has to be in sync or else the lane wont be there. Any hesitation by the passer or if the cut is early or late then the window will be closed. Again, hence the dribbling and passing around and the heaving of a last second shot. This is not the offense, this is a byproduct of the offense not being executed.

As we have seen of late, our guys are getting more confident and not hesitating, trusting the structure of the offense and it has lead to success. Lets hope it continues.

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Re: one thing i've noticed that we added is the back cut


Jan 15, 2020, 5:41 PM [ in reply to one thing i've noticed that we added is the back cut ]

Yeah, wasn't that something? We've been shooting over 73% from the line.

Last night we shot better from the floor than the line. Normally when you play Duke, they outscore you from the line. Last night they were just as bad.

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Re: I have been critical of Brownell's tenure


Jan 15, 2020, 9:28 AM

You do realize that with the win over Duke, BB has become the winning-est coach in Clemson history passing Cliff Ellis?

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Yes I do


Jan 15, 2020, 9:56 AM

I also know the conference schedule and dynamics are different where we don't play everybody twice a year like they did in the old days and he's done it in 10yrs.

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


We also don’t have as many non-conference games now.


Jan 15, 2020, 10:56 AM

Our non-conference schedule consisted of a lot of bad teams in prior eras, with only few exceptions. That accounted for at least a few more wins each year.

Making the NIT was fairly easy then. It basically required a .500 or better overall record. Win most of you patsy non-conference games and a few ACC games, and you’re in. Not so now.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I had to double check the math on that one


Jan 15, 2020, 1:22 PM

Judge Keller® and here's what I found:

Through 10 seasons of regular season non-conference games (not including post season tournament games), Cliff Ellis coached in 127 games and Brad Brownell coached in 123.

So while you are technically correct in saying Brad hasn't had as many non-conference games as Cliff, the difference over 10 years is only 4 games, less than half a game per year.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: I had to double check the math on that one


Jan 15, 2020, 1:43 PM



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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


You failed to also look at the quality of our non-conference


Jan 15, 2020, 2:09 PM [ in reply to I had to double check the math on that one ]

opponents. The quality of our OOC opponents was just as important to my point, if not more important, than the number of OOC games.

Surely you can remember some of the absolutely horrible non-conference games we used to play. We were known for playing a lot of low quality non-conference teams during Cliff Ellis's tenure. It was a big deal when we played a non-conference game against Kentucky when Rick Barnes was our coach, because such games were a rarity in Clemson basketball prior to that.

My overall points are:

1. People should be able to congratulate Brad on a nice achievement, rather than trying to detract from it.
2. If we are going to try to diminish Brad's ACC wins due to the ACC not being as tough as it was previously (which is debatable), we must also acknowledge that our non-conference schedule now is generally tougher than it was previously.
3. We also play more conference games now than we used to.
4. No matter how you slice it, being our all-time winningest men's basketball coach is a significant accomplishment.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I think you're mis-remembering


Jan 15, 2020, 2:51 PM

Again, comparing 10 years and using the AP poll, CBB has had 5 more ranked non-conference teams on his schedule than Cliff. In conference games, Cliff played 13 more ranked conference opponents than Brad (that's using current rankings for the rest of our conference opponents this year).

Also, Brad has coached 7 more games at Clemson than Cliff has and he hasn't even finished his 10th year.

Nobody is denying that it's a nice achievement, but you can't toss out incorrect stats and expect to not be called out on it.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: I think you're mis-remembering


Jan 15, 2020, 4:07 PM

To jump in, there is never a very easy comparison between the two eras without taking into account the massive shift in non-elite program and competitiveness. Basically the rise of the mid-majors have had a major impact on non-blue blood programs. Cliff was in an era that favored the power-five, non-elite programs and that is why you saw GT, Clemson, and Wake all have good year in the late 80s and early 90s... while also allowing Duke and UNC to win the title. Ban-hammering NC State helped too. Talent was going into both the elite and non-elite teams. Since then, the non-elite programs have been diluted heavily with more mid-majors siphoning off talent from the power 5 + BE. It has even hit some of the elite programs.


22 of the AP top 25 in 1990 were from the P5 + Big East Conference. 20 P5+BE is ranked... but those conference expanded. Butler, Creighton, etc were not P5+BE. So there has been a reduction in power programs (from 1990) in the top 25 of about 25%. Basically, being "Duke" is now easier as they are still an elite program and can skim the talent but being Clemson is more difficult since we are now fighting with mid-majors. Basically I can watch VCU on TV just as easily as I can Clemson. Heck the path to the NCAA tourney is likely easier for non-P5 teams now than it has ever been and Clemson's path is much harder.

The former round-robin format also skews. Basically, on one hand it almost always allowed a chance to beat a top team at home each season (like the Duke game) but then the schedules are not always 1:1. I would generally say we added to the top with realignment so the current format has less frequent ranked teams but is generally a more difficult path anyway.

Finally, BB probably has a harder road to Ellis. Ellis benefited from a "boon" era for mid-level power conference teams. BB has seen that opportunity pool shrink. The elite teams have most stagnated and the mid-level is as crowded as ever.

Finally, if we are going to point to the best, this is the best Clemson Cliff Ellis...
https://www.clemson.edu/caah/departments/cpred/city-and-regional-planning/people/facultyBio.html?id=204

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I don't necessarily disagree, and you're 100% correct


Jan 15, 2020, 5:26 PM

that it is hard to compare eras. I'm not even making an argument, just providing facts in response to JK's opinions.

He started with "We also don’t have as many non-conference games now" which I looked back and compared to Cliff Ellis' time and that's not really true. In Cliff's last 4 years he had 12, 10, 10, and 13 regular season OOC games. In CBB's last 4 years he had 12, 12, 13 and 10 OOC games. Cliff did have 2 statistical outliers where they had 16 OOC games in year 2 and 15 in year 6, but the rest of the years were between 10-13 OOC games. CBB had 14 OOC games his first 2 years and every other year has been between 10-13 OOC games.

His next opinion was that Cliff didn't play anybody OOC. So I wanted to see how that compared to today and the only fair way is to look at AP poll rankings and I started with Cliff's last year and worked backwards. In his last year he had OOC games at Minnesota (ranked 15th) and home against OkSt (ranked 20th). Conversely, Brad the most regular season ranked OOC opponents Brad has faced in a year was 2 and that has happened twice (years 3 and 7).

Now, I will say in Cliff's 9th year, his OOC schedule suuuuucked. UofSuCk was the only p5 OOC opponent he faced. But in 18 ACC games that year, including 2 ACC Tournament games, 10 of his opponents were ranked.

In 10 years, Cliff coached against 72 ranked opponents (in regular season and ACC Tournament, NOT including NIT or NCAA tournaments). In 10 years Brad will have faced 64 ranked opponents while having coached 21 more games than Cliff over the same time span.

So I am not making an argument one way or the other, I am just providing facts and context to assumptions being made. I was a student at Clemson during the Shyatt days, so I have seen the worst of the worst and like CBB and his teams much better than those teams.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


He can coach, but is mediocre as recruiter


Jan 15, 2020, 9:33 AM

BB has always been a good teacher and "X" and "O's" coach. He is the best in that area we've had going back to 1960's, except for Rick Barnes. He has had problems consistently recruiting the quality of players needed to compete against the upper echelons of ACC basketball. If you give him talent equal to what UNC and Duke have had, he would beat them more than he loses to them. Next year appears to be the year when he will have better talent and hopefully depth. He has the current team playing well above their talent level the last 3 games, but our lack of height and depth will ultimately expose us. Enjoy any victories if and when they come. Keep BB at least through next season.

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It’s amazing how he has learned how to recruit these last couple of years.


Jan 15, 2020, 10:58 AM

Which, coincidentally, corresponds with facility upgrades and additional support staff positions.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


agree, he knows the x's and o's, just hasnt had the talent


Jan 15, 2020, 11:32 AM [ in reply to He can coach, but is mediocre as recruiter ]

see my post above about his offense. Some people think he is doing something new or different lately, but hes not. Its the same offense, its just being executed better and players are playing with more confidence.

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We are three games through a stretch where we play the


Jan 15, 2020, 10:12 AM

traditional "Big Four" Tobacco Road teams of UNC, NC State, Duke, and Wake Forest five straight games. Keep up the great work, Tigers.

Clemson 81 NC State 70
Clemson 79 UNC 76
Clemson 79 Duke 72
Clemson vs NC State ????
Clemson vs Wake Forest ????

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