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CU Medallion [65451]
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One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 10:36 AM
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that point on, there has been a gradual decline. And, with Dabo's dogged insistence on isolation, it has become inbred to some extent. We need an infusion of outside blood, and certainly some new ideas on offense. If we just "stay the course" again this offseason, with no coaching changes, then, I do not see next season as having the potential to be a step up, but rather another rung DOWN the ladder of success.
In past times, when Dabo saw the need for changes, he made some hard calls to MAKE those changes. But, now, he seems to be stubbornly refusing to take his own previous advice in what is a definitely similar situation. He has blinders on, and seems determined to cut off his nose to spite his face. It seems that the joy has gone out of it for him, and this is unfortunately trickling down to the players on the team as well. You could see it, most notably, on Will Shipley's face last night. The smile was gone, and tired acceptance of failure replaced it. Clemson no longer seems to go into games EXPECTING to win. Now, it is merely HOPING to win.
Rumour has it that the Emperor Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Will Dabo Swinney do the same while the football program that he so carefully crafted moves toward the same fate? I hope not.
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Orange Blooded [4834]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 10:46 AM
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I wish that I could give you two TU..well stated 76.
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110%er [5482]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:33 AM
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I gave one too
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Standout [346]
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 2:50 PM
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Thing is, the ROY bus is getting smaller. Georgia, Alabama, and Ohio State are steps ahead of just about everyone, when it used to just be Alabama. Refuse to adapt and get left behind.
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 10:48 AM
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Bingo. My thoughts exactly.
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Orange Blooded [2804]
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All good point. I was just sitting here thinking about
Dec 31, 2022, 10:49 AM
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Player development as well. Who have we seen come in lately and really make leaps and bounds in development (that wasn’t already super talented).
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Tiger Cub [11]
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Re: All good point. I was just sitting here thinking about
Dec 31, 2022, 11:06 AM
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IMO, Ro Ro Ro has made A HUGE leap since he arrived. He was a 3 star project.
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Orange Blooded [2804]
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Good call. I’ll give you that one.
Dec 31, 2022, 11:21 AM
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Nm
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 10:50 AM
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The truth is, most programs are only good for a short time, with one pocket of players, and then decline.
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110%er [8537]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
1
Dec 31, 2022, 10:57 AM
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You can go back through the years and say that about probably a dozen teams at least. Alabama has unquestionably been the best program over the last 15 years, at least, but does not win every year. The 85 scholarship and Portal rules have made it harder and harder to win and the fact that we have won 7 of the last 8 ACC Championships is a huge accomplishment.
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CU Medallion [65451]
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Sorry, but winning the ACC, although a good accomplishment,
Dec 31, 2022, 11:10 AM
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is just like being the Tallest Midget, in the grand scheme of college football power.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Sorry, but winning the ACC, although a good accomplishment,
Dec 31, 2022, 11:14 AM
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When you stop and think about how hard we struggled to win against some of those midgets this year it’s stunning. Our record is what it is but we came dangerously close to flipping W’s to L’s with a NFL defense.
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: Sorry, but winning the ACC, although a good accomplishment,
Jan 1, 2023, 1:41 AM
[ in reply to Sorry, but winning the ACC, although a good accomplishment, ] |
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BV and TE left their jobs at Clemson making a couple of mil each, they went to their new jobs making even more, Dabo hired their "both" replacements for a price of less than what BV, or TE were making each when they left Clemson. Dabo, Clemson, and the Clemson fan base has in Streeter and Goodwin, two for less than the price of one, we got exactly what Dabo bought and paid for!!!!!
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Freshman [3]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From ] |
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I’m just not over the moon by topping out as an ACC champion. There was a day when Miami, Fl State and more recently Louisville were Nationally relevant. But today the ACC is just not there. Clemson has the potential to be nationally relevant however, yes, we have been in decline which was unseen with the play of Lawrence. It’s a matter of what’s the expectations for Clemson vs what we are seeing. Winning the ACC with the current quality of teams just isn’t the greatest accomplishment
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110%er [9656]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Clemson is the only think keeping the ACC relevant, or should I say was the only thing. That ship has sailed
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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Varsity [234]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 10:58 AM
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This is an awful take & all you coots who are agreeing with him are what’s wrong with this message board.
What are you even talking about? The joy is out of it for Dabo & Shipley? That’s the most ignorant statement I’ve ever read. Did you not see how Shipley played last night? The kid is an absolute animal who played his butt off to win.
Good lord, we get it. Clemson lost & now you’re upset. You are the preverbal “I’ve experienced my team win a title & now I will only be mad about everything until we do it every single year” fan.
Dabo won’t make changes? Is that why he benched DJ? You are forgetting that after the FSU game, DJ was a Heisman contender & was getting NFL draft buzz. When he grossly under performed Dabo put in Cade.
You’re all clowns on this thread. Stop crying, Clemson’s top performers last night were all true freshman, we are in good hands.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:00 AM
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Yeah, I think being mad that Dabo didn't fire Streeter and Goodwin mid season is asinine.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:16 AM
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Yeah, I think being mad that Dabo didn't fire Streeter and Goodwin mid season is asinine.
Fire them? No! Hot seat yes! Today they should be either looking for a new job or being demoted back to QB coach and possibly water boy
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:34 AM
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And then when the next coordinators do the same thing, we can start the process over again and complain about the same things.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:41 AM
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This has to be the worst and downright laziest take all day. We don’t marry coaches, we date them. Think about it in this context and it will be easier for you to understand. Would you say, well I know she burns everything she cooks, doesn’t want to sleep in the same bed with me and the house is a mess, but the next one will probably be the same and I’ll be back out there looking again?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 2:40 PM
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It's not a lazy take at all. The lazy take is thinking solutions are as simple as firing the coordinators. The issue is that people don't want to deal with the actual problems because they are too difficult. They want to pretend there is an easy fix.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From ] |
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We were 1 point away from being in the playoffs lol. People are so ignorant. Next year when we win the ship I don't want to see them on here celebrating.
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Varsity [234]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 2:24 PM
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I think there should be a list of all these losers on this message board who have never played a down of football in their lives or never coached anything but get on here & just complain like the world is ending. What’s really funny is usually those people are on here over the moon when things are good.
So we’ll make a list of all these fake fans & when Clemson makes the CFP next year, and honestly a good chance at a title, those fans can’t celebrate with the rest of us!
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Legend [18790]
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Lets make a list?
Dec 31, 2022, 2:58 PM
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Wow, probably the dumbest thing I read this week and thats saying something.
Thanks for the laugh, though! TU!
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Standout [346]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From ] |
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I’m quite confident that next year when we have a third and goal on an opponent’s 5 yard line, Streeter will call for a 70 yard bomb into the stands.
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Tiger Cub [12]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 10:58 AM
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Well said.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:06 AM
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I wish I didn’t agree with everything you just said and it weren’t so, but I do and it is. I saw this last year, this year confirmed it. Clemson football is burning. Alabama does well staying at the top because they adapt, hire qualified coordinators and replace them as necessary. I’m not sure why Dabo is being stubborn on this. I also don’t know why he was so stubborn on our QB situation. I would have been fine losing games with Cade and Streeter should have been on the hot seat because I would at least have consultation in hope for the future and that hard changes were taking place. As of now I have zero hope for the future and only see it getting worse.
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Tiger Cub [11]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:18 AM
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You have ZERO hope for the future? Geez. Don’t think it’s that bad. Not even close. We did win 11 games this year. Is that how warped your perception is? Remember the Bowden years? I do. Horribly inconsistent. The program hasn’t been anywhere near that level in a very long time. We just had a top 10 recruiting class. I remember when we landed a 4 star RB named JAMES DAVIS. Remember him? It was a huge deal that we landed a 4 star player! We are light years away from where the program was then.
With that said, I absolutely wish that Dabo would’ve gone external for the OC position or at least brought in someone to help Streeter and then have Streeter on as QB coach. The program made the biggest jump when Morris and Venables came in from the OUTSIDE.
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Legend [17604]
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+1 @76er
Dec 31, 2022, 11:10 AM
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76er® ... So many Tnet posters have cited this decline for 2-3 years to be railroaded by those who accept any Tiger effort because with some justification "they're our Tigers", "Dabo has won two natl championships", and "Tigers are better than 1965 or Tommy West years."
Clemson has a solid top 15 program. As has been pretty well documented, multi-multi-millionaire coach and businessman Dabo Swinney understandably does not have the focus and fire he had in 2015. Yes, the program peaked in 2018. And yes, Dabo has turned the coaching staff into a lake-front country club of friends and associates he has decided to financially enrich. Agree with you 76er that Tigers need new coaching blood with fire and creative x's and o's skill sets. A lot of fire left with Venables. And Dabo needs to turn over Offense to a coach with talent.
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Recruit [88]
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Re: +1 @76er
Dec 31, 2022, 11:31 AM
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"A lot of fire left with Venables"
Yes it did. Call Goodwin a savant all you want, he doesn't strike me as a motivator.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: +1 @76er
Dec 31, 2022, 11:37 AM
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The problem is not "fire." The problem is talented. You can have all the "fire" you want, but if you get physically manhandled, "fire" doesn't do jack squat.
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: +1 @76er
Jan 1, 2023, 5:09 PM
[ in reply to +1 @76er ] |
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If we are willing to accept this from being able to brag about Bama and Clemson being the top two teams in the country and had been for several years at that time a nationally top 5 elite team among all the best.
With the way the majority of T-Netter are saying right now with being so defensive with the way that Dabo replaced the coaching staff with so many inexperience coaches. It's across the defense and the offense. That can only mean that Tiger Nation never expected to actually stay at the top with the elite, and what Dabo had accomplished at that time was some kind of a fluke, and it wasn't going to last after BV took a head coaching job.
I'm not going to believe that what is happening now was supposed to happen, and I'm not going to apologize for being vocal about the way Dabo replace BV or TE. He cheapened the FB program with the two hires. He appointed two people that had no experience as coordinator, and called them coordinators, and the results against a crippled Tennessee team showed what two experience coordinators was supposed to do against two rookie self taught coordinators with no experience at all. Dabo hired two coordinators together for less than what BV or TE was making as coordinators.
Brent Venables Salary at Clemson was $2,500,000 per year. Tony Elliott's Salary was $2,112,000 at Clemson.
Brandon Streeter makes $925,000 per year for the same job TE had at Clemson.
Wes Goodwin makes $850,000 per year for the same job BV had at Clemson.
BV and TE salary combined was $4.62 million, Streeter and Goodwin salary combined was !.775 million. Dabo saved almost $3 million by hiring Streeter and Goodwin. Can anybody actually say that they believe, that Dabo believed that by hiring Streeter, and Goodwin, that all those kids that expect top coaching, that those kid were going to get that with Streeter and Goodwin. Do anybody believe that Dabo actually believed that the FB program was going to have the very same elite coaching from Sreeter and Goodwin as he got from Venables and Elliott. I say no he did not, I say that the only thing he was certain about, was he was going to save Clemson right at $3 million bucks, and he was ready to except whatever he got for the FB program. Dabo cheapened the FB program without a second thought, and nobody can convince me that he didn't know what he was doing bc, I'm just not that stupid!!!!
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Freshman [-57]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:11 AM
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exactly
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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Ominous assessment…but reasonable. Let me say this…
Dec 31, 2022, 11:18 AM
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Clemson has ascended to that rarefied air, not once, but TWICE. No one can doubt that CDS KNOWS what it takes to get there.
There is no question about that.
And, yes, he HAS made tough decisions, most notably after the LAST Orange Bowl debacle to West Virginia. That resulted in Brent Venables coming to Clemson.
CDS does NOT seem to me to be myopic with respect to the expectations of the program he built. Nor does he seem to be unable to have some self-introspection and self-awareness.
Personally, I DO BELIEVE that some coaching changes are on the way. I know most of you will think that these changes would have had to happen ALREADY, but I don’t think that is a given.
I don’t need to rehash those issues in this reply, and I can’t really expound what the specifics of those changes should be.
For now, I am going to TRUST that CDS is going to make some corrections.
HOWEVER, the current state of college football (portal, NIL, tampering), will make the challenge perhaps that greatest that CDS has faced to date.
He strikes me as a smart enough coach to do it, and I have no idea WHO I would trust more than Dabo Swinney to navigate this ship.
To CDS…Thank you for all you have, AND WILL DO, for Clemson University’s football program. You have my respect, SIR.
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Associate AD [844]
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I guess we will find out…….TBD***
Dec 31, 2022, 11:21 AM
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Ominous assessment…but reasonable. Let me say this…
Dec 31, 2022, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to Ominous assessment…but reasonable. Let me say this… ] |
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That would make everyone happy and hopeful again if true. The Dabo of 2014 is not the same Dabo anymore and most sense it. I appreciate your optimism and nothing wrong with clinging to it as long as you can. I can’t do it anymore because I’m not a man of faith in the unseen, I tend to rely on reason and the facts before me. Dabo has shown me nothing in the last 3 years to make me believe what you say is true or that I should even remotely get my hopes up.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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All-Pro [657]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:20 AM
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I said this along time ago and was called a coot
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Recruit [88]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:28 AM
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A well thought out response that many of us are feeling. The past two seasons have been difficult to watch as talent comes and goes.
We must not only recruit, but also develop talent.
If we don't right the ship, we won't be able to recruit with Georgia, Ohio State, and Alabama. Then we'll be back in the pack. Not leading.
If Best is the Standard, then a frank evaluation of our performances against the standard must be done and changes made.
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CU Guru [1589]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 11:34 AM
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Wrong 76er!
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CU Guru [1299]
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Tell me
Dec 31, 2022, 11:52 AM
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It is simple. Tell me who on this roster would have started on 2018 team? I can’t name one
Talent is way down
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Letterman [283]
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Re: Tell me
Dec 31, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Ya can't be on top forever. But Clemson is still doing a good bit better than most.
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Letterman [283]
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Re: Tell me
Dec 31, 2022, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Tell me ] |
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Ya can't be on top forever. But Clemson is still doing a good bit better than most.
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: Tell me
Dec 31, 2022, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Tell me ] |
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There it is and yes, it is that simple. I just went through (quickly, mind you) this year's roster and other than Potter, Barrett, Murphy, Bresee and POSSibly Mafah, you're looking at 17 or 18 players starting now that would have been 2's on the 2018 team. Fair assessment and a great point.
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CU Guru [1746]
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We r in a rough patch...although
Dec 31, 2022, 12:02 PM
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11-3 is a nice "problem" to have. Yes we won in 2018 but we also played for a national title in 2019.. may have won if TL was accurate that night.. and went to the playoff in 2020... I'd say since the OSU game but primarily beginning last year without TL, Etienne, Rodgers, etc.
Is like to hear your reasoning for 2019 on being a gradual decline... Other than the progression of being #1, #2, #5 or whatever it was. Our program is in dang good shape and better than almost everyone in the cpuntry
Just have to find a way to get back in the elite. We'll get there l.
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Orange Blooded [4494]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 1:52 PM
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100% agree. There’s not one single phase of the game that we are doing better than in 2018. Or at least as well. Recruiting, development, coaching, game prep, in game adjustment, on and on. Gradual decline that has accelerated quickly.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 2:45 PM
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I don't disagree that there has been decline. My issue is that people want to attribute it all to internal factors, and give no consideration to the external factors.
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Orange Blooded [4494]
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Re: One mans opinion. Our program topped out in 2018. From
Dec 31, 2022, 2:48 PM
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Oh I agree. External definitely a factor. Some adjusted and are thriving in the new environment though and we are just victims of. Same thing over and over and expecting different result. It was a good run. Thankful for it and it hurts that it’s done.
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CU Medallion [65451]
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Hmm, revisiting this topic, Dabo may have read this post and
Jan 30, 2023, 6:43 PM
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decided he had to make a change at OC. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it until proven otherwise.
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