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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Oliver Purnell followed Larry Shyatt and coached us 7 years.
Jan 20, 2017, 10:04 AM
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People seem to forget that, even with our albatross of basketball history and the redheaded stepchild syndrome that many of our fans have regarding our basketball program, he overcame it all and failed to make the post season only in his first year. He showed steady progress and left Coach Brownell with his most talented team, enough talent to make the Tournament in his first year.
Year 1 - no postseason tournament
Year 2 - NIT First Round
Year 3 - NIT Second Round
Year 4 - NIT Final
Year 5 - NCAA Tournament
Year 6 - NCAA Tournament
Year 7 - NCAA Tournament
Year 1 - NCAA Tournament
I point this out, not to praise Oliver Purnell, but simply to remind the excuse makers and the woe is us crowd of what is possible at Clemson with only mediocre facilities and the right coach. Imagine what could be accomplished with our wonderful new facilities and a decent coach.
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Rock Defender [53]
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He also did it with what people on here claim.....
Jan 20, 2017, 10:08 AM
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is "crappy" facilities. He had Littlejohn listed as the #2 hardest place to play in the NATION!
It can be done and it has been done. Brownell's best year was with OP recruited players.
Barnes built it up
Shyatt tore it down
OP built it up
Brownell tore it down
?Marshall? built it up
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Orange Blooded [2332]
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Re: He also did it with what people on here claim.....
Jan 20, 2017, 10:21 AM
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Coach Marshall is NOT coming to save the day! He is firmly in place at WS. Coach Wade at VCU has to be our first choice if Brownell is given the chance to find another job. Unless CBB goes 1-17 in ACC play I do not see a change occurring. Looking at the remaining schedule 8-10 ACC is reachable, but the team would need to upset somebody on the road to do better. The NCAA still is ours, but everything must turn with the next home game.
Personally I like CBB, but if we fail to advance this year he should be told by the admin. he will get one more year period. No contract renewed!
Go Tigers!
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110%er [7718]
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Re: He also did it with what people on here claim.....
Jan 20, 2017, 10:35 AM
[ in reply to He also did it with what people on here claim..... ] |
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lol @ people like you who think marshall is going to leave WSU.
Good lord we really do have the dumbest Bball fans in the nation.
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Starter [397]
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Re: He also did it with what people on here claim.....
Jan 20, 2017, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to He also did it with what people on here claim..... ] |
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> is "crappy" facilities. He had Littlejohn listed as
> the #2 hardest place to play in the NATION!
>
> It can be done and it has been done. Brownell's best
> year was with OP recruited players.
>
> Barnes built it up
> Shyatt tore it down
> OP built it up
> Brownell tore it down
> ?Marshall? built it up
Never hire the scumbag Gregg Marshall, unless you want to be on probation.
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CU Medallion [58311]
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^These are the facts. There was steady improvement under
Jan 20, 2017, 10:14 AM
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Purnell, until he hit a wall. Brownell is not a bad coach, but he has not been able to advance the program one iota.
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All-Pro [657]
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Oliver Purnell finished 1 win short of averaging 20 wins....
Jan 20, 2017, 10:29 AM
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by winning 139 games in 7 years. Awesome coach. If we could blend his offensive philosophy with Brownell's defensive philosophy, we might have something.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Brownell's defensive philosophy?
Jan 20, 2017, 10:33 AM
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We were a better defensive team under Purnell. His defensive style was the key to us getting easy baskets and shooting a higher percentage than a half court offense could produce with the talent level.
We are a bad defensive team and have been for a couple of years now.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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What? I don't think you can blend OP's offensive
Jan 20, 2017, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Oliver Purnell finished 1 win short of averaging 20 wins.... ] |
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philosophy with BB's defensive philosophy. You can blend the transition offense with the traps in the half court, but for the most part those two philosophies are not congruent.
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All-In [43977]
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Purnell didn't have an offensive philosophy.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:08 PM
[ in reply to Oliver Purnell finished 1 win short of averaging 20 wins.... ] |
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That was the problem, and is why Purnell has NEVER won an NCAA Tournament game.
Purnell's teams scoring points was predicated on creating turnovers with the full court press and getting easy baskets. When we were taken out of our press and the game turned into more of a half court game, we were lost. That is unacceptable.
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110%er [7103]
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It's undeniable that Purnell got better results...
Jan 20, 2017, 10:49 AM
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than Brownell. That's not a big accomplishment, considering that Brownell hasn't accomplished anything at all despite having a willing a fan base as any coach could ask for (remember when we filled LJ on a SUNDAY for an NIT GAME???).
I'm not as big as Purnell as a lot of people, though. Yes, he got us to the field of 64 several times... but could you please post the results that his teams had in the NCAA tournament? How many wins? Any deep runs? Hmmmm...
I do seem to remember that he got us to the ACC tournament championship game one year, isn't that right? I'm FAR more impressed with that than getting into a tournament with SIXTY FOUR teams. If you are barely making the field of SIXTY FOUR, then your team that year is mediocre at best. If you are seldom in the field of SIXTY FOUR, your PROGRAM is mediocre at best.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: It's undeniable that Purnell got better results...
Jan 20, 2017, 10:58 AM
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The tournament wins would have come....
Purnell also had a winning record in the ACC his last 3 seasons.
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110%er [7103]
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You have no way of knowing that...
Jan 20, 2017, 11:02 AM
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Answer the question: What did he do with the chances he got in the big dance? How many wins? How many advances to the 2nd round?
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: You have no way of knowing that...
Jan 20, 2017, 11:13 AM
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I'll take a winning record in the ACC and a trip to the dance even if we lose in the first round over what we have now. I don't think we're in a position as a basketball program to frown on those results.
No reason to think we wouldn't have at least a win or two in the NCAA tournament had Purnell stayed a few more years.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Brownell turned DOWN the CBI
Jan 20, 2017, 11:00 AM
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The CBI.......good lord.
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110%er [7103]
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At this point...
Jan 20, 2017, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to Under CBB we have seldom made the NIT ] |
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calling Brownell's program mediocre is too kind. It's BAD.
Of course, I could note that I told all of y'all that he should have been fired at the end of the 14-15 season... but who cares at this point. What's done is done. The only thing left to ask is how much longer does it go on. Another season? I guess we're probably stuck because of the $$.
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All-In [27348]
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O P
Jan 20, 2017, 11:10 AM
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Saw the writing on the wall and left HIS team without even a goodbye. Difficult for me to admire a quitter (think Spurrier) like that! OP has had great success since leaving CLEMSON !!! Is he even still employed?
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CU Guru [1305]
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Very false post
Jan 20, 2017, 5:15 PM
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Purnell w Brownwell w the most talent he's had here. Made the tournament w Purnells recruits first year on the job but hasn't managed to accomplish a single thing otherwise with his own recruits. He's had plenty of time change needs to be made. He is in a much worse spot now then Bowden was in his last year or Leggett was in his last year. Brownwell is a terrible recruiter that is boring in person, met him before, and a subpar coach.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Buyout drops significantly after this year
Jan 20, 2017, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to At this point... ] |
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And I've been screaming to go in a different direction for years. I really thought he had turned it around this year. We've gone through a brutal part of the schedule with some dagger-type losses. Our boys played hard against UNC and there was no answer for Berry who couldn't miss. They played really well against ND. The GT loss was a head-scratcher, UVA...meh. All the while I thought he had his team playing fairly well but you'd like to see at least one or two of those close games come out as wins. Last night looked like a complete lack of effort, like they just gave up. Not taking credit away from Louisville, but the Tigers played like garbage. I don't think CBB is using his lineups and bench properly and he's putting guys in the wrong position. Just my opinion. We've gone from being a decent tourney seed team to "oh crap, are we going to miss the NIT again?"
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All-In [28193]
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this is correct
Jan 20, 2017, 11:28 AM
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it is all coaching. this was a mistake last year to keep him on and all those that defended the move seriously have no clue when it comes to basketball. he does not use bench well, sub well, or inform team a critical times.
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All-In [43977]
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No, bad was what we had under Shyatt.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:18 PM
[ in reply to At this point... ] |
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We finished last or next to last in the conference virtually every year he was here. Some of Cliff Ellis's teams were really bad too.
Brownell has not had any truly bad teams at Clemson. If you look at where we finish in the ACC, we are decidedly middle of the pack. Not great, but not bad either. And we are almost always competitive. I'm not satisfied with Brownell's 6.5 years - not even close - but when you look at Clemson's pathetic basketball history, Brownell's tenure has been much better than our norm.
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Legend [19567]
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The 11-12 team was pretty bad. 13-18***
Jan 20, 2017, 11:23 PM
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All-In [43977]
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True, that was not a good team.***
Jan 20, 2017, 11:55 PM
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110%er [7103]
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You sure you're not satisfied?
Jan 20, 2017, 11:37 PM
[ in reply to No, bad was what we had under Shyatt. ] |
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Because you paint a lot rosier picture of Brad's tenure than most. Terms like bad are very subjective. What's acceptable to you might be mediocre to me. What's mediocre to you might be bad to me. Whatever. The point is we're NOT GETTING BETTER. We're treading the river of mediocrity year after year; and for me that's BAD. And that AIN'T the fault of an unsupportive fan base.
As for Clemson basketball fans, do you expect the fan base to be as fired up for perennial mediocrity as they would be for a program that had some signs of upward trajectory. Come on man. The fans are THERE in FORCE when there are the slightest signs of life. And when we've really been good, we are as big a basketball fan base as anyone. Are you old enough to remember the late '80s through the Barnes era?
Give us something worth watching and we will go. We haven't had a basketball team like that for 4-5 years at least.
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All-In [43977]
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"Give us something worth watching and we will go."
Jan 20, 2017, 11:54 PM
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Said every college basketball fan base ever. I'm sorry to break it to you, but supporting the team when they are good doesn't make us a great basketball fan base.
I'm not blaming our fans for our poor basketball history, but at the same time, it gets old reading posts talking about how great our fans are. Have you seen how pathetic the attendance is at many of the games, even when we are a solid team? What's worse is that there are always excuses made for it, rather than people being honest and calling it like it is.
And no, I'm not satisfied at all with our basketball program. I feel that making the NCAA Tournament every year should be the expectation. Obviously, we want to advance and play in Sweet Sixteens and Elite Eights, but a minimum should at least be making the field of 64. We haven't done that in a long time, and it's very frustrating.
With that said, I also recognize that it isn't as simple as just getting a new coach. We need to get the right coach, which means getting a guy who can build a program and sustain it, AND who we are prepared to pay well and make every effort to keep when other teams come calling. Facilities are also a huge part of this, which we thankfully have now. But they were way overdue, so we must remain vigilant in maintaining and updating them.
If this season turns out like it appears it will, we must make a change. I just hope it's the home run hire that Clemson basketball needs.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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110%er [7103]
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No, I think that perhaps it's YOU who missed my point...
Jan 20, 2017, 11:20 AM
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Everyone brings up making it to the field of 64 as the benchmark; while that is certainly a big corner to turn, the results once you get there mean something. If just playing an extra game after the ACC tournament is all we need, then yeah... we should be able to find someone who can get us there. We have top-notch facilities and a big athletics budget. Why SHOULDN'T we be able to make the field of SIXTY FOUR?
I hope Clemson basketball fans will end up wanting something that is not only better than mediocre, it's actually GOING SOMEWHERE. Purnell's constant full court press crap wasn't going to get us anywhere. Anyone who knows basketball knows that. To beat real teams you HAVE to have half court defense AND half court offense as well as the athleticism to press when needed. If it WAS leading Clemson somewhere, why did Purnell move out in the middle of the night to a job where he failed?
Purnell is NOT who we should point to as an example of how to get it done at Clemson.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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I haven't seen anyone suggesting Purnell is the standard
Jan 20, 2017, 12:02 PM
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to shoot for. That's a straw man.
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Varsity [203]
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You used him as an example of what is possible.
Jan 20, 2017, 12:08 PM
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Seems kinda like standard.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Simply not true. YOu are either struggling to read or
Jan 20, 2017, 12:38 PM
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are being dishonest in order to create a straw man.
"I point this out, not to praise Oliver Purnell, but simply to remind the excuse makers and the woe is us crowd of what is possible at Clemson with only mediocre facilities and the right coach. Imagine what could be accomplished with our wonderful new facilities and a decent coach."
That's where a Clemson education is helpful.
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Varsity [203]
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Um, your entire post and the conclusion of that post was
Jan 20, 2017, 5:31 PM
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based on Oliver Purnell's stint. For the point of your post, you used him as your benchmark, i.e., your standard.
LOL, why so darn angry man? No need for the juvenile, misplaced vitriol. I read fine, I'm not dishonest, and I'm definitely not trying to create a straw man. I couldn't care less if you were praising Purnell or not, but if you don't see how you used him as your standard then perhaps you need to review your Clemson education?
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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You really do have a reading comprehension problem.
Jan 20, 2017, 7:02 PM
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The point of my post is the paragraph I just showed you. Again, I can explain it to you, but I can't make you understand it.
Perhaps you should have gone to Clemson.
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Varsity [203]
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Well, let's just face the facts here, you're an a s s
Jan 21, 2017, 12:40 PM
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You used him as a an example, a benchmark, a gauge, a measure, a yardstick...
A standard.
Please try harder to not be an a s s. You're embarrassing me, my degree, and my university. Either get laid, get drunk, or try a prozac. But for crying out loud, stop being a dickk.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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I don't have a problem being an a s s to someone who is
Jan 21, 2017, 12:48 PM
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being an ignorant dishonest a s s h o l e.
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Varsity [203]
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Does the fact you errouneously went to the simpleton insults
Jan 23, 2017, 12:38 PM
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mean anything to you? You were wrong and the baseless insults reflect poorly on my school. Just because you keep posting the same incorrect statements over and over, it doesn't make them any more true.
Fact remains, example = model = illustration = analogy = connection = likeness = paralleling = relation = resemblance = point of comparison = precedent = scale = exhibit = apotheosis = encompassment = epitome = = exemplification = expression = symbol = instance = benchmark = guage = a "yardstick" = barometer = model = pattern = norm = basis = guideline = criterion = example =
STANDARD.
Pick your word. Regardless, the conclusion is you used Oliver Purnell as a standard, regardless if you were praising him or not.
A S S. At least you can admit it.
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All-In [43977]
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You overestimate our fan base for basketball.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:14 PM
[ in reply to It's undeniable that Purnell got better results... ] |
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I know we're Clemson and we want to think we have the best fans in the universe, but we aren't that great when it comes to supporting basketball. Our fan base will support basketball under these conditions:
1. Football doesn't have a home game that day.
2. Football doesn't have an away game within a few days (because, you know, we have to travel to the away football game).
3. The basketball team is really good.
4. The basketball team is playing another team perceived as being good.
5. Supporting basketball won't in any way risk harming the football team, cause anyone to question how much of a "football school" we are.
It's pretty stupid, really. We wrap so much of our time, attention, and identity into supporting football and being "the best football fans in the world" that we either don't have the time or interest in supporting basketball. Any fan can support his or her team when they are really good, but it takes a special fan base to support a middle of the road ACC team like Clemson. And we just aren't that special when it comes to supporting basketball.
I know this sounds harsh, but recognizing this fact and hopefully changing it is a very critical component of us having more basketball success. It all starts with a mindset that we truly care about basketball, have high standards for it, and will support it. I'm not so sure we have that yet, and it's frustrating.
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Legend [19567]
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Barnes was building it then cut and run
Jan 20, 2017, 11:21 PM
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He more than any coach we've had captured the attention of the fan base and we sold the joint out a good portion of his last three years. Taking on Dean. And yes, winning. He also embraced football and didn't run from it. Did spots riding around in a golf cart on Tiger Tailgate.
Clemson needs a great coach, and a promoter. Barnes was the best we've had with that mix
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All-In [32567]
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Cart / horse ...... chicken / egg ...... I couldn't disagree
Jan 21, 2017, 8:12 AM
[ in reply to You overestimate our fan base for basketball. ] |
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more, I don't think.
1. Look at our attendance - REAL attendance during Tommy West, Hatfield, even Bowden - even for big football games - the UD corners were empty in LARGE numbers and tickets could be had anywhere at face or below.
As performance improved - attendance skyrocketed - culminating in this upcoming season - where I would imagine tickets to ALL games will be harder to come by.
2. Give dook or tarhole basketball our level of performance for 10 years and see what kinda support they get.
In fact - look at uncheat's attendance during the Matt Doherty years - fell off like crazy. Probably what contributed to his firing - well, that, and he just flat out sucked.
3. After the loserville game - who wants to spend hard earned money to see lack of effort ? To see the SAME OL, SAME OL for the last umpteen years ?
The facilities are improved. Put a competitive EFFORT & RESULTS on the floor and our family will support it with the same enthusiasm we do football.
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All-In [43977]
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That's how every fan base is when it comes to sports.
Jan 21, 2017, 2:50 PM
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Which is exactly my point: Clemson basketball fans aren't anything special. I know that is disappointing to you and others who like to think we are this loud, passionate fan base who rocks Littlejohn. But the reality is that we don't do that any better than any other fan base. Every fan base will show up when their team is winning. Duh.
What we don't show up for is a team that plays hard and is competitive virtually every night, but hasn't quite been able to turn the corner. That is exactly what we have been throughout most of Brownell's tenure. I can't help but wonder if a consistently loud environment in Littlejohn could have made the difference in some of those narrow losses.
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110%er [6967]
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Re: It's undeniable that Purnell got better results...
Jan 21, 2017, 7:07 AM
[ in reply to It's undeniable that Purnell got better results... ] |
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Good grief, Purnell has us in the ACC championship game and in the NCAA tourney as high seeds. These are accomplishment we will never see from Brownell. I do not understand why some people disparage Purnell, he was a very good coach
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110%er [6153]
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Oliver PurnelL quit on Clemson ... he was a decent coach who
Jan 20, 2017, 11:09 AM
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... wasnt satisfied with being the Clemson coach.
Hard to praise a guy who quit on us when we needed him.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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You may have stopped reading at some point after the title.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:13 AM
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"I point this out, not to praise Oliver Purnell, but simply to remind the excuse makers and the woe is us crowd of what is possible at Clemson with only mediocre facilities and the right coach. Imagine what could be accomplished with our wonderful new facilities and a decent coach."
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Varsity [203]
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Purnell did better than Brownell, but Purnell is not the
Jan 20, 2017, 11:17 AM
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benchmark. We can do better than never winning an NCAA tournament game.
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All-In [27348]
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Re: Purnell did better than Brownell, but Purnell is not the
Jan 20, 2017, 11:23 AM
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Clemson has won tournament games. Never is not the correct word. In fact, if not for a miracle shot my UConn, my Tigers would have made it to the final eight.
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Varsity [203]
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Purnell never won a tournament game, hence he is not
Jan 20, 2017, 11:29 AM
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the benchmark. That was my point.
I was a student at the UCONN miracle. We wold have played Duke next, which we had already beat once to win the ACC regular season title. I was on a floor level seat for that one.
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110%er [5465]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3308
Joined: 1/19/05
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Re: Oliver Purnell followed Larry Shyatt and coached us 7 years.
Jan 20, 2017, 10:34 PM
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You are so right. Sad to say but it seems BB only knows how to lose close....except for Louisville.
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CU Medallion [55241]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58317
Joined: 7/18/07
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Re: Oliver Purnell followed Larry Shyatt and coached us 7 years.
Jan 21, 2017, 7:33 AM
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With Purnell, you couldn't trust him to be the coach the next day bc he will pull up in during night and leave....
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Legend [16646]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9354
Joined: 11/1/14
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Re: Oliver Purnell followed Larry Shyatt and coached us 7 years.
Jan 21, 2017, 7:45 AM
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OP left. Why did he leave?
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Orange Blooded [2468]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2831
Joined: 2/7/13
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They'll give him 2 years at new LJ whether we like it or not***
Jan 21, 2017, 1:01 PM
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All-In [43977]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32912
Joined: 2/22/03
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What is this statement based on?!?
Jan 21, 2017, 2:53 PM
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You might be right, but you have no basis for saying this with such certainty. Don't you think the rest of this season might play a role in Brownell's future? Because it certainly should.
If we tank and have an awful, uninspired end to the season, Radakovich will likely let Brad go after this season. If we turn things around and make the NCAAs, he will probably keep him. Something in between will likely make it a tough decision for DRad, but there is no way he knows now what he will do.
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Orange Blooded [2471]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2672
Joined: 9/17/10
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Thank you!! Lot of amnesia on this board
Jan 21, 2017, 3:06 PM
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Like people forgot what Purcell did. CBB is not the solution. Past time to move on.
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