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Topic: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.
Replies: 51   Last Post: Mar 10, 2016, 11:29 AM by: greatertater
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Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.

[3]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:04 PM

Unless we are going to spend more on a coach (I think Brownell is paid 13th in ACC) we are not going to fire him this year. It would look bad on us to fire someone during renovations when the team had to travel for every single game.

A bunch of people on here are saying it was an awful coaching job this game. How so? Someone explain exactly what it was that was awful coaching. Not just spew something, but say something intelligent. Leaving Roper in... I agree that was Brownell making a bad move. What else?

And as I said before the ACC began this year, I said we would win .500 in the ACC and no one gave this team a chance. The outperformed people's expectations and then every body gets mad when we play about where we are. (It was a choke job and some of it lays on Brownell no doubt, but there were some dumb, dumb plays down the stretch)

Next year, Brownell will need to make the tourney or there should be a change. We should be good enough even if JB doesn't come back. If he does, we should be in pretty easy.

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Re: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:07 PM

I don't care what they have to do. Start paying players...Nick Nolte and Blue Chips this MFer if you have to!! Make basketball relevant again. It breaks my heart!!

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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


did you see the offensive plays drawn up to end regulation

emoji_events [7]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:08 PM

and OT? Did you see the conservative clock management to just throw up threes as the shot clock winds down. Did you see our All-ACC player not getting opportunities to isolate and draw fouls the last 5:00 minutes? Yes, it's coaching!!

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This!!!


Mar 9, 2016, 10:10 PM

What game was he watching?

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I for one am glad you are stopping. You are one of the most ignorant posters ever. You obviously think very highly of your own opinion, unlike the rest of us - RockHillTiger


I agree some is on Brownell...


Mar 9, 2016, 10:12 PM

but I also saw horrible shots with 20+ seconds left on the shot clock. Which is on the players as well. And sometimes the other team will determine who can take shots. Like for instance that last possession Avery made a horrible horrible decision when GT was not going to JB get the ball. (And I think Avery played one of his best games too)

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Re: I agree some is on Brownell...


Mar 9, 2016, 10:16 PM

If the players are jacking up shots, whose job is it to tell them to stop and go inside? THE COACH!!!!

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Agreed... which is why I said not pulling Roper was


Mar 9, 2016, 10:28 PM

a bad decision.

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Re: did you see the offensive plays drawn up to end regulation

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:14 PM

No adjustment to "prevent" defense as time winds down (let em keep hacking Georges-Hunt like a buncha dopes). Nobody back to defend full court lob for layup as time expires. No inside-out play to expend clock and maintain lead with high-percentage shots.

Either he's inept or his players are impulsive and out of control. Both possibilities warrant termination.

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GO TIGERS


Bad timing for termination unless we pony up


Mar 9, 2016, 10:29 PM

money as I have said in other posts.

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Re: did you see the offensive plays drawn up to end regulation

[1]
Mar 10, 2016, 1:30 AM

As a Tech fan, it was odd to see an opposing coach have bigger gaffes than our own, as Brownell had tonight. Y'all willed us back into this game.

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No TO to set up final shot in regulation!

[2]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:09 PM

Good night.

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I agree... bad decision.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:13 PM

Sometimes you let the game roll on... we weren't playing well enough for that.

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didn't he call TO before 2nd free throw?

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:44 PM

Im sure he set up a play then. Problem was Holmes walked the ball up the court which left no time to run a play.

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considering we could not defend the ball screen... either

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:11 PM

on it or backside... and we could not stop them off the bounce the last 5 minutes...

I thought we'd see some of the zone we'd played at times this year

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He's used up his chances, DRad has no choice.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:11 PM

We need a younger; offense minded coach.

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Dont necessarily disagree...


Mar 9, 2016, 10:25 PM

I just think this would be bad timing. Like I said, it is playing at the Well that drove this... not as an excuse for him, but because of the perception of getting rid of someone right after that situation.

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It's always the right time to try and get better.***


Mar 9, 2016, 10:40 PM



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Re: Dont necessarily disagree...


Mar 10, 2016, 10:20 AM

Screw the perceptions. Do we want to get better or are we satisfied with mediocrity, and that's being generous. Make the move now!

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Sigh.... it is the perception that the candidates that


Mar 10, 2016, 10:53 AM

we will be trying to get will have. If there is a good young coach wanting to take the next step... and that is what we show, it will put doubts. The support of the admin and fans would need to be there or they will wait until a better opportunity comes. Again, if we are willing to pay to get someone, that is a different story.

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Re: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:11 PM

Enough of this argument of giving him yet another year. He's been here for six seasons already. He has done jack-squat with his time and regressed from where OP put the program. Get rid of him.

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OP did not leave the program in good condition


Mar 9, 2016, 10:43 PM

(not an excuse, but the truth) if we weren't just coming off playing in the Well, then it would probably be fine to let him go. But that hurts perception in potential candidates eyes.

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It's not like we haven't given Brownell time.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:51 PM

He's been here six years. No good coach would be scared away by us firing him after playing this year in Greenville. If they are scared off by that, I don't want them as our coach.

I want a winner. Our administration better be committed to going out and getting one.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


That is my caveat. I dont think Clemson will put the money


Mar 10, 2016, 10:54 AM

up for a big time coach. That is based of what Clemson has done for basically its entire basketball history.

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Here you go as example - last 12 seconds of regulation


Mar 9, 2016, 10:12 PM

That's just one totally inexcusable example. I have more.

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That was on Avery, unless you are saying not


Mar 9, 2016, 10:19 PM

calling a timeout... which I would agree that should have been done... but it also shouldn't have taken 7 seconds to get it across half court.

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He sucked at LJ and The Well


Mar 9, 2016, 10:12 PM

Stopping using "lack of home court" as a ### excuse! He would suck @$$ even if he had cameron indoor for a home court.

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Read what I said and then try again.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:21 PM

I said it would not be a good idea to fire him while in this situation. It will make legit young coaches less likely to come here. Again, if we want to pony up and pay someone in the top half, then that would be an ok move, but I doubt Clemson will do that based on history.

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I suggest woodworking, or model airplane building...

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:13 PM

because analyzing basketball strategy and prognostication of future outcomes is not for you.

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I called the .500 in the ACC before it started.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:18 PM

And do you think we will pay a coach in the top half of the ACC, or do you think the next coach we hire will be another low offer. And like I said, the playing not at home and then making a lateral move will make the pickings of coaches even slimmer. Because a good young coach that will move up will not want to come into that situation.

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Re: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:14 PM

Last two plays out of timeouts. Especially Avry driving too late in the game clock. Your blind optimism is immensely frustrating. No chance he gets fired, he might even get another extension for getting close to the NCAAs. Taking the moral high ground by supporting an underwhelming product is something "real" fans love to do.

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Firing him doesn't look any worse


Mar 9, 2016, 10:14 PM

Than blowing an 18 point lead to Gt in the ACC tournament on prime time tv.

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The lack of confidence his teams play with is a reflection

[3]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:17 PM

of him.

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Agreed...

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:23 PM

Sometimes they look unbeatable, sometimes the look like they don't know what they are doing. That is partly coaching.

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Why are you assuming that we won't spend more on a coach?


Mar 9, 2016, 10:24 PM

We should have learned our lesson by now that trying to do basketball on the cheap doesn't work. Our mostly pathetic basketball history should have taught us something.

We have our money into facilities. I'm optimistic that our president and AD both see the importance of being committed to basketball and not just football. We need to view ourselves as deserving more than a training ground for the young up-and-comers or the mid-major coaches. Get someone who has proven himself on the high major level. Make sure he's passionate, a good motivator, and a great recruiter. And pay him well and give him what he needs so that Clemson is a destination job and not merely a stepping stone.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


If we do, great. And it would be an ok move to go


Mar 9, 2016, 10:45 PM

ahead and do it. If not, then it would be a bad move. I am basing that Clemson will not spend the money based on history.

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I hear what you are saying.

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:53 PM

I'm hoping that DRad and Clements are more committed to basketball and can see how short-sighted and wimpy Clemson has been about basketball all these years. Talk about unfulfilled potential!

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.

[4]
Mar 9, 2016, 10:31 PM

In 1985, the NCAA tournament expanded to 64 teams.

Since then, Clemson has missed a post season tournament 10 times. 2 with Ellis, 4 with Shyatt, 1 with Purnell, 3 with Brownell.

In other words, the percentage of Clemson making a post season tournament since then has been 68%.

Ellis: 80% (8 of 10)
Barnes: 100% (4 of 4)
Shyatt: 20% (1 of 5)
Purnell: 86% (6 of 7)
Brownell: 40% (2 of 5)

IF Clemson makes the NIT this year, Brownell will have made a post season tournament 50% of the time. (3 of 6)
IF Clemson makes the NIT this year, and the NCAA next year, Brownell would have make a post season tournament 57% of the time. (5 of 7)
IF Clemson fails to make the NIT this year, Brownell will have made a post season tournament 33% of the time. (2 of 6)

I don't understand the desire to give Brownell another year. New building or not, his performance is well below what this program has done. Shyatt was bad, Brownell is arguably just as bad or worse (4 more teams make the post season now than compared to Shyatt). Brownell is a good man, and not a bad basketball coach. He gets quality young men to campus, and graduates them. But he doesn't win enough games. If SCar can go out and poach a coach from the Big 12, and VA Tech can grab a coach from the Big East, there is no reason Clemson cannot do the same.

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Great analysis. Numbers don't lie.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:32 PM

nm

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Great analysis.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:47 PM

If Clemson is willing to spend the money then it is an ok move, but Clemson has not been willing to spend the money on a BB coach in... forever.

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Re: Great analysis.

[1]
Mar 9, 2016, 11:15 PM

Agreed to an extent. Clemson couldn't afford Smart last year. Texas gave him huge money. I don't think Smart was out of Clemson's price range when Brownell was hired. Would Smart have come here? Who knows, all we know is that he did a heck of a job at VCU.

Honestly, I don't care if Clemson basketball is a stepping stone and proving ground for a young coach who runs for some money. That coach isn't going to get big money somewhere else unless he wins big here. Good on him, thank you for your service, next man up. You can't be a destination job without having success, and I think there is a pretty direct correlation between success and money in the program.

I don't see any reason that over a 10 year period, the expectation for Clemson basketball is that the team makes the NCAA 6 or 7 times, NIT 1 or 2, and misses the post season no more than 2 times. Take away Shyatt and Brownell, and 80% or more in post season play is not out of the realm of possibilities, nor historical performance, heck I'd even argue it's low (Ellis' 2 misses were the immediate 2 seasons after he got in that little dust-up with the NCAA). I'm asking for a little more time in the NCAA tournament than history suggests, but I'm not expecting a final 4 or anything at this point, just an invite.

We can talk about winning those games when Clemson gets to those games. But you gotta walk (dance) before you can (make a) run.

Man, I miss the days of trying to defend Purnell for making the NCAA tourney and not winning a game...

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Re: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.


Mar 9, 2016, 10:48 PM

If we don't fire him after this year we just don't care about basketball, we can do better.

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Re: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.


Mar 10, 2016, 9:16 AM

SO....

1. The last play of the regulation....what was that?! We walk the ball up the court and basically go one on one. While I realize Holmes had been having his way much of the game (not really in the last 5 minutes though), you have a First Team All-ACC player and he doesn't get to touch it?!?! BB says Holmes had that option....I don't give him the option. I win or go to OT with my All-ACC player.

2. The last play of the game....we don't have a play that gets someone a better look than that? I would have to look again, but did they even try an off-ball screen? DeVoe literally had no separation. Again....where is your All-ACC player?

*****I know.....JB had a chance the possession prior to expand the league, but that's even more reason to go back to him IMO. He has been money and the only consistent player we had this year.

3. AND....at what point to do you figure out how to get Nnoko from only playing 5 minutes a game because he can't defend without fouling?

I have never been a coach nay-sayer for any sport at Clemson, but I think there needs to be some serious evaluation the next month or so. It's not just about the horrible loses we had this year, but look at what we have recruited in BB's tenure. No reason we can't attract better talent to Tiger Town. It's not all about facilities.

For those that say we over performed...I call BS. That is based on some pre-season perceived potential of the team. After playing 8 or so ACC games, this team showed they are pretty good. A good coach gets the consistency needed out of his team to win at least 3 of those games that we blew toward the end of the year. Losing an 18 point lead with 8 and a half to play is just ridiculous and is NOT all on the players!!!

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What else!?!


Mar 10, 2016, 10:21 AM

Did you watch the game? How about Clemson's last possession in regulation where Holmes just strolls up the court and then throws up garbage that hits nothing? That was the play BB called? Or how about Clemson's last shot in OT? The off the back of the backboard special. That was great play calling. It takes a real idiot coach to blow an 18 point lead with 8+ minutes left. But BB has been doing it very well all year to teams with less talent. It's time for a change.

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Re: What else!?!


Mar 10, 2016, 10:23 AM

Hey, that was an amazing shot to end the game. You try hitting the back of the backboard from that angle.

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Re: What else!?!


Mar 10, 2016, 11:03 AM

Hire a great high school coach like coach Morris was in football and triple his salary. If he wins keep tripling it. If he doesn't win you haven't lost much. Heck, let Dabo find the guy.

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Re: Ok everyone...l et me lay this out.


Mar 10, 2016, 10:30 AM

Why don't you explain what was so good about his coaching job last night instead. Blew a 13 point lead against the same team 2 weeks ago.

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Bro his record over 6 years is BAD.

[1]
Mar 10, 2016, 11:01 AM

And the counter to the "give him one more year" would be.....YOU FIRE THE GUY AFTER ONLY ONE YEAR IN THE NEW FACILITY?

Brownell OUT, next guy in. He's had time and cannot produce. Facilities schmacilties. More than half of the NCAA tourney teams would trade facilities with us in 2 seconds.

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I am telling you... it is not about giving him one more year


Mar 10, 2016, 11:12 AM

or not. Unless Clemson is willing to make a move on a good coach, and not just a lateral move that we will pay a guy around 1 mil... it would not be good to fire him this year.

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Maybe but waiting won't help either


Mar 10, 2016, 11:20 AM

We need to take a chance on a young guy with a vision (Dabo mold) and see what he can do.

Or break out the checkbook and hire the best coach on earth.

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Re: I am telling you... it is not about giving him one more year


Mar 10, 2016, 11:22 AM

I totally agree with that. It's time for CU AD to decide if we want a team that will compete for Championships consistently or just settle for middle of the road year after year....

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The last possession of reg and OT was so poorly drawn up...


Mar 10, 2016, 11:20 AM

Avry Holmes should have passed back to Jaron to hit the game winning three at the end of OT. Brad should told Avry to give it back to the best player for the game-winner. Both of the final shots to end the game were embarrassing. You have to draw up a better plan for that.

It was embarrassing to watch such poorly coached plays that you so often see other teams capitalize on.

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just curious why, going by the past five seasons, you think we will


Mar 10, 2016, 11:29 AM

Go to the NCAA tourney next year?

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