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110%er [6312]
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God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 6:32 PM
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As an atheist, I laughed so hard at Dabo’s quote. It was pretty cringe. But it’s just who Dabo is. The man loves Jesus. And it’s so obvious that his religious beliefs have impacted his life for the positive.
Even though we disagree on religion, I wouldn’t want anyone else to represent Clemson University.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 6:41 PM
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Leon, I don't know you so please forgive me if I am stepping on toes. We have had a couple of interactions recently on Tnet and you strike me as an intellect who is incredibly well-read. As such, Faith can be a very unfulfilling concept to get your mind around because it is not something that can be analytically dissected in a satisfying way. Walking by faith and not by sight is a core Christian concept but it can be deeply unsatisfying for someone who thirsts for more "proof" of a heavenly creator.
I will just quietly pray that one day someone of your intellectual equal might spawn a conversation on Faith that encourages you to take another look.
Happy Holidays and Go Tigers!
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 6:57 PM
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And I guess one more thing. You were asking for book recommendations the other day. If you haven't read it, "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel would be a good pickup.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Fear and Trembling***
Dec 21, 2022, 6:58 PM
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110%er [6312]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Unfortunately, I have read that book already and found it unconvincing.
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110%er [6461]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:42 PM
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I am a devout Christian and I actually find that book equally unconvincing.
The thing I find the most convincing is the resurrection. Opponents call it a hoax. The biggest problem with that is the ones who supposedly perpetrated the "hoax" had nothing to gain. They had no monetary gain. They had no political gain. They all were willing to die the death of a martyr to perpetrate a hox? That makes absolutely no sense.
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110%er [6461]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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I am a devout Christian and I actually find that book equally unconvincing.
The thing I find the most convincing is the resurrection. Opponents call it a hoax. The biggest problem with that is the ones who supposedly perpetrated the "hoax" had nothing to gain. They had no monetary gain. They had no political gain. They all were willing to die the death of a martyr to perpetrate a hox? That makes absolutely no sense.
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110%er [7200]
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Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 22, 2022, 1:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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I find people who believe in atheism just a fascinating and as jovial as you do those who are Christians.
I see atheism as one if the most discredited religions out there as well as some who claim their type of Christianity.
A personal walk with Christ as my savior has manifested itself physically in my life and brings a peace that can't be found anywhere else. I can elaborate anytime.
I hope your walk with atheism manifest in your life and you have peace as well.
For Dabo I imagine his walk with Christ is very close and moves as instructed. He definitely has no reservations in bringing to light how Christ has worked in his, his work, his players, his family's, etc... lives. Dabo doesn't just reveal the good that has happened in his life but has told the public thru media etc., the bad, the wrongs and mischief in his life.
I'm glad you pull for Clemson and ur an asset to the board!
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 22, 2022, 10:05 AM
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"I see atheism as one if the most discredited religions out there "
How has it been discredited?
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110%er [6461]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 22, 2022, 11:55 AM
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If one looks at science with no preconceived bias, they will see it.The theories are re written ever time they are proven untrue. Darwin himself said his origin of the species hinged on the simple cell and if the cell were ever shown to be complex, his theory would not be true. Is a strand of DNA inside the cell simple?
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 22, 2022, 12:20 PM
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I can believe there is something outside the natural world, in fact I think it's more likely than not.
The christian worldview is too illogical. I don't think a loving god would ask me to lay down the intellect he supposedly gave me to believe in him.
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110%er [6461]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 22, 2022, 6:36 PM
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Your intellect is wrong. .Travel to France and visit the Louvre. In the science section, there are miles of science books written by the smartest, most intellectual men of their time. Most of what appears in the books has now been proven false. At the time of their writing, the intellectuals believed it and anyone who disagreed was an idiot.
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Commissioner [940]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 23, 2022, 10:04 AM
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That's a feature of science, not a bug.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 23, 2022, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely, ] |
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A loving father would never give up on his children and punish them for eternity.
The bible says he does and will.
The bible is therefor false.
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 22, 2022, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely, ] |
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Whoever said God asked you to lay down your “intellect?” In fact, God says,
Proverbs 1:7
[7] The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: Trotsky I understand. Completely,
Dec 23, 2022, 12:05 PM
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In order to believe it I have to go against my common sense.
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Orange Blooded [2013]
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I think you are a bit confused.
Dec 22, 2022, 4:22 PM
[ in reply to Trotsky I understand. Completely, ] |
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TigerFurLife,
Atheism is not a religion. It is actually the absence of a belief. You’re calling it a “religion” shows just how much you don’t understand what it is. That’s like calling your lack of belief in Allah a religion. In that respect there are hundreds of gods you don’t believe in. Atheists just add yours to that list.
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110%er [7200]
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Re: I think you are a bit confused.
Dec 22, 2022, 8:23 PM
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Huh? Not a religion? Atheism in its core foundation is structurally based and rooted in the foundation of faith that there is no higher power. Atheisms cornerstone is denying the existence of God through pure unadulterated faith in whatever aspect of the believers foundation for believing it is. Atheism has more different faith based views than types of Baptist churches in the Bible belt.
To say its not a religion would be an insult to any decent non godfearing American. I will not stoop that low to undermine its right to live among the other religions such as agnostics, scientology, rastas, etc...
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Orange Blooded [2013]
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Yep. You are clearly confused.
Dec 22, 2022, 9:38 PM
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Because you don’t know what a religion is.
Don’t worry. I don’t expect you to understand.
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110%er [7200]
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Re: Yep. You are clearly confused.
Dec 22, 2022, 11:32 PM
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What brother, not mincing with you. I'm more on the lines of having a comical interaction.
Id rather you just say muck off than devolve to conversation to one piece of rhetoric.
And to say I don't believe in Allah?! I do believe in Allah. Just as any other follower of Christ would. You literally (and I am certain I'm using the word literally correctly) show an enormous amount of ignorance to not just followers of the Bible but also Muslims, Judaism, Christians and all who believe in the God/Allah because even those the 2 words don't sound alike they, again, literally mean the same thing. Both in definition and context. I won't go further in explaining any more differences of these religions. You obviously don't want candor from me.
Just for chits and giggles I actually opened up and took classes on all world religions/mythology and humbly know enough to know when to shut up.
If you disagree just agree to disagree. I will.
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Orange Blooded [2013]
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I don’t collect stamps.
Dec 22, 2022, 11:55 PM
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That doesn’t make me a “non stamp collector”. I don’t play golf. That doesn’t make me a “non golfer”. I don’t play a trumpet. That doesn’t make me a “non trumpet player”.
I don’t believe in Yahweh. That doesn’t make my non belief a religion. It’s just a non belief. The absence of belief…is not a belief or a religion.
And to your hell I go. I’ll let you know how that works out for me.
Maybe one day you’ll understand. Maybe. Probably not.
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110%er [7200]
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Re: I don’t collect stamps.
Dec 24, 2022, 5:57 AM
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So you just have an absence of belief when it comes to any form of the existence of nature, existence of life, etc... if thats true u just don't have an opinion so you really have no religion. I can dig that! Although that is not any form of atheism I've come across. Enlighten me if it is. I am completely willing and open to understand ur individual views. I did not mean to clump you in with general Atheism.
Apologies
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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The word 'belief,' is equal to 'faith,' for in this case...
Dec 24, 2022, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to I don’t collect stamps. ] |
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you believe something which has no scientific proof. Lack of evidence is not evidence. You've deemed your mind to be above others esteeming your opinion without evidence of its value.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: I think you are a bit confused.
Dec 23, 2022, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to I think you are a bit confused. ] |
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It is hard to respond when someone immediately calls atheism a religion. It is their dishonest attempt to lump atheism in with religion as a faith based belief.
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110%er [7200]
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Re: I think you are a bit confused.
Dec 24, 2022, 5:52 AM
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You are correct that it is hard to have an atheist come to terms with the core beliefs of atheism as an ideology/religion (semantics).
The 1st amendment treats atheism as it does every other religion. Atheism as you know is not simply the non belief in creation but the belief system in a different view on the origins and nature of existence.
Its textbook. But I will agree to disagree good sir.
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All-TigerNet [10602]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 10:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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I would recommend "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis. Lewis was a brilliant intellectual who had become an atheist at age 15, having been raised in the Church of Ireland. Lewis is just a fascinating person and writer whose books should be interesting to anyone. A lawyer friend of my brother's, whom I think considers himself brilliant, says that "smart people do not believe in God". I think Lewis, and many other brilliant people prove that incorrect. If true, thank goodness I am not smart!
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All-American [579]
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Excellent recommendation!***
Dec 21, 2022, 10:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Letterman [264]
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Re: Excellent recommendation!***
Dec 21, 2022, 11:07 PM
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2 Points
Study the Cambrian (sp?) explosion - If All of Time were read as a clock, all carbon based animals came into existence w/in a millisecond- only explanation is they were created.
Why Evolution Can’t be True - The only alternative to an intelligent designer is evolution. In the randomness of science I implore to theorize how likely this scenario could play out - ‘I’ll give you x amount of paint for every color, how many random iterations of the paints randomly put together would it take to create the Mona Lisa? Impossible w/out intelligence’
I’m a science guy, these two things help reaffirmed my faith.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I simply believe the Bible.
Dec 22, 2022, 7:35 AM
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I always will. I reckon science will someday confirm that no other explanation is valid. I reckon it might not happen until the day of reckoning but that's good enough for me.
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Orange Blooded [4603]
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Re: Excellent recommendation!***
Dec 22, 2022, 9:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Excellent recommendation!*** ] |
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Our pastor in Houston once said the following re: the requirement of Faith to believe in evolution. "If a person thinks that a tornado can come into a junk yard, put all the parts together by chance and fly out the other end a completed 747 jet full of passengers, then you can believe in evolution." He also stated that believing in evolution requires a lot more Faith than believing in God because there is evidence of God and his creation everywhere you look. There is still to this day, no valid evidence that one species evolved into another.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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I’ve always associated myself with “Doubting Thomas”
I could be convinced. My mind is still open.
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CU Guru [1483]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:12 PM
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I would suggest that you read “Jesus Politics” by Phil Robertson.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:14 PM
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As long as you read “The Language of God” by Francis Collins.
He’s one of the best scientists this country has even had, and also a Christian.
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All-In [27363]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Have you read Darwin’s Compendium.? I bet not.
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Orange Blooded [3985]
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Having read Darwin, it always amazes me…
Dec 21, 2022, 10:01 PM
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That a self adulating scientist would build an entire theory based upon a premise that violates the second law of thermodynamics
Absent the intervention of some external force, everything is descending into disorder, but evolution gets a magical free pass in academia
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CU Guru [1198]
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Re: Having read Darwin, it always amazes me…
Dec 21, 2022, 10:08 PM
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It doesn't violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics because the law only applies to a closed system. The earth isn't a closed system because it constantly gets energy from the sun.
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Orange Blooded [3985]
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Your right, the earth and the solar system, and the universe are not closed systems
Dec 21, 2022, 10:21 PM
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Because they were created by God.
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CU Guru [1681]
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Re: Having read Darwin, it always amazes me…
Dec 21, 2022, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Having read Darwin, it always amazes me… ] |
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Tell me you don't understand the second law of thermodynamics without telling me you don't understand the second law of thermodynamics.
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Orange Blooded [3985]
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Alright Einstein, teach me about it…
Dec 21, 2022, 10:25 PM
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And please explain yourself when you tell me that the Earth is not a closed system because, the Sun, and the solar system is not a closed system because of what????
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CU Guru [1681]
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Re: Alright Einstein, teach me about it…
Dec 21, 2022, 10:56 PM
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So first off, the second law of thermodynamics insofar as it defines entropy deals with isolated systems, not closed systems. They are not the same thing. You very well may consider the earth a closed system. It's not, but that argument is irrelevant to whether evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics.
An isolated system is a system that exchanges neither energy nor matter with any other system. This describes neither earth, which receives more than 100 quadrillion Joules from the sun per second, or our solar system, which receives radiated energy from both earth and the sun (and other planets). Oh and by the way our solar system also isn't isolated from other solar systems within our galaxy. If it was you wouldn't see any stars.
So the earth is not an isolated system because it literally doesn't meet the definition of an isolated system. Ergo even under the assumption that evolution even *is* an increase in entropy, a localized increase in an non-isolated system does not violate the second law of thermodynamics.
You should have taken a class with Dr Lickfield at Clemson before he retired. He explains all of this very clearly.
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Orange Blooded [3985]
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Is the universe a closed system?***
Dec 21, 2022, 11:48 PM
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Orange Blooded [3985]
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You know something Dr Lickfield could never explain?
Dec 21, 2022, 11:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Alright Einstein, teach me about it… ] |
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How was a law that depends on a closed system proven on a planet that’s not a closed system
And why is that law applied to nearly everything else in physics, but conveniently ignored when discussing evolution
And what about the sun’s radiation or the radiation of stars in outer space magically bring order to the supposed evolution of species when the rest of the universe is decaying into chaos?
Random musings…. I’m sure you know the answers though, right?
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All-In [32580]
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Hey -
Dec 22, 2022, 12:44 PM
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championsof81
this thread had been going along great - like TNet of old - and you jump in with holier than thou
BET NOT . . .
Alright Einstein . . .
Why you gotta be like that ?
Civil discourse.
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Orange Blooded [3985]
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Thanks mom ;)***
Dec 22, 2022, 9:15 PM
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All-In [32580]
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Merry Christmas ! Hope it is a great weekend for you &
Dec 23, 2022, 10:08 AM
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yours.
G O T I G E R S !
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 10:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Honestly asking: if the Bible is the truth, why isn't it the only recommendation?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 11:49 AM
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Because mankind continues to search for it in other places and because the devil is at work doing his best to convince people otherwise. We all have an evil nature within, from the Original Sin of Adam and Eve, and Satan uses that to his advantage to try and convince you that God's Truth isn't really true at all.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:05 PM
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>because the devil is at work doing his best to convince people otherwise.
Any evidence for this?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:35 PM
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What you are describing though is called the "God of the gaps".
We don't understand something, so we put "God" in that space to ease our lack of misunderstanding.
Just because there are things we don't understand, doesn't mean that a higher power must have done it.
As you have probably seen in your lifetime, this "gap" keeps getting smaller and smaller. We used to think that thunder and lighting was a higher power getting mad, or that we must have been created in our current form. Those have been unequivocally answered by science and that will continue to happen. People will still point to all the thing we don't, though, and then claim "God".
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting evidence for the things we believe. The only reason people balk at that notion is because it wrecks their religious convictions.
> The one thing that could mess it all up is man and we are doing our best
This also never made sense to me. We didn't create ourselves. We didn't choose to have our nature. Sounds like someone at the top made some pretty lousy creatures, eh? Not sure how you can create a person and then blame them for acting like a person.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:48 PM
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 5:28 PM
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And it's an obviously mythical account of creation. The earth wasn't formed in a few days, it formed billions of years ago from coalescing star dust.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 7:01 PM
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 23, 2022, 11:57 AM
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> The point is that much of the Bible is parables and also units of time were different as referenced by the guys living to be 600+ years old etc.
I really don't see how you can say things like that and not think critically about it at all.
The Bible never seems to "mean what it says" when talking to you guys. We have crystal clear evidence that the earth wasn't formed in just a few days.
> In any case I was referring to what you said about God making some lousy creatures. According to Genesis it could have been paradise here on Earth if man wasn’t flawed with sin.
Again, WHO created man flawed with sin? Man didn't create themselves. You say that we are born with a sinful nature. Ok... that means we didn't choose it.
Again, think very carefully about what you are saying. God creates man (with the ability to sin) and then punishes said man for doing what they were destined to do. It's obviously ridiculous.
Would you create life knowing that the vast majority of it would suffer eternal damnation? If not, why not?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 23, 2022, 12:29 PM
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 23, 2022, 6:34 PM
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> I didn’t say God created man with a sinful nature or flawed with sin. We were created with the ability to make choices and a conscience. No other creature has that. That’s how most people inherently know right from wrong. Since there was that original sin, then the game changed
That makes no sense. You are saying God created us and that we have an inherit sinful nature. That literally means he created sinful beings.
> No I can’t prove it’s true nor can you disprove it or definitively prove any other theory of creation. There is a lot of historical and archaeological evidence for the origins of Christianity but nothing absolute.
But we do have absolute archaeological and biological evidence that refutes the biblical account of being created in our current form in a short period of time.
> I would say that just from personal observation, the people who believe seem to be a lot happier in life and really have no downside to being wrong.
I mean, that could be said about any religion, though.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 23, 2022, 9:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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My favorite part of Genesis 1 is when it says the Earth, with oceans and vegetation, was created before the Sun. Truly spectacular.
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Letterman [264]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 25, 2022, 3:27 AM
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Because at that time God was the light, there was no need for the sun. when He unveils the new heaven & the new earth to us the lion will lay w/ the lamb & God again will be the light.
Alot of people don’t understand why God allows Satan & bad things to occur but the reason for that is the most important one of all. God doesn’t want to force his relationship upon us, imagine not choosing to marry your wife out of love & choice but be forced to marry her because you have to! That’s not a great relationship, therefore sin separates us from God so we have the freewill to choose to be in a relationship with him or not! Unfortunately, Sin is a disease passed on from the father & it grows stronger & fiercer in time to bring about the End Times.
However, imagine the alternative of having a forceful God that did not grant us freewill, that would be nothing short of enslavement.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 4:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Also the world is getting better. There has never been a better time to be alive and that’s because of humans.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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All of my understanding comes from the Holy Bible. God is the source of that word and that is what I have to stand on. It may not be enough for some but it is enough for me.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:36 PM
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And that's fine, it's totally your prerogative, and I'm thankful we live in a country where we are free to do that.
My only problem with that is when it's used to create laws or is forced upon others.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 2:39 PM
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Which is how many wars have started throughout history.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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All the evil in the world.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 1:15 PM
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Who created this world?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 6:13 PM
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And here I thought you didn't believe 
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 23, 2022, 11:58 AM
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That is funny, I actually laughed.
But... can you answer it?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Ah, but even Doubting Thomas eventually came around so there is clearly still hope for you, Leon
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110%er [6312]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:16 PM
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It took the physical proof for Thomas to be convinced Jesus rose from the dead.
I remember praying in bed as a teenager, begging for Jesus to appear to me. But I didn’t get the physical proof that Thomas got.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:35 PM
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As I mentioned, walking by faith and not by sight can be difficult but we can also ask for wisdom and discernment to help us and God will answer that prayer. He says that very directly in His word.
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1st Rounder [632]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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After Thomas believed. Jesus said, “You believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who believe yet have not seen. “
It takes a lot of faith. ?
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 11:03 AM
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^^^this^^^
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Legend [19567]
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Legend [19567]
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Thomas had to see to believe
Dec 21, 2022, 8:21 PM
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Jesus told him those who didn't see yet believed would do greater things than him.
Hebrews 11:1
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Orange Blooded [4658]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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I love that you said this. So glad you have an open mind. Keep searching.
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Legend [17856]
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Thomas did not doubt who Christ was
Dec 21, 2022, 9:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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He only doubted that He had risen from the tomb - he doubted the word of the witnesses...until he saw Christ himself.
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Legend [19567]
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Thomas's response to seeing Jesus
Dec 21, 2022, 10:40 PM
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"My Lord and my God"
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110%er [7200]
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If you are truly open then I would say
Dec 22, 2022, 2:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Get a copy if the Bible and read the gospels and new testament. And if you believe you are truly open to seeing if its black and white real then some conviction has fallen on you to seek God's love. Pray when reading and ask for Gods guidance.
Christ is there and accepting him with asking forgiveness is all he ask if us. One step towards Christ opens up a lifetime of steps he has taken towards us. It hard to strip away calloused shells we build but Christ has a gentle way of relieving us of them.
I will pray for you sir.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: If you are truly open then I would say
Dec 23, 2022, 9:39 AM
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Here’s the problem…
I have read the gospels. In fact, not only did I read them, but I took notes on them. I would write down bullet points for everything that happened in each gospel.
This was one of the worst things for me to do. Studying the Bible critically helped convince me that it wasn’t the inherent word of God.
Oddly enough, my atheism developed when I tried defending Christianity to the only atheist that I knew. I searched the web for compelling arguments to save an atheist, but the opposite happened instead.
Critically reading the Bible and trying to save an atheist turned me into one. To this day, that transformation is the most unexpected thing I’ve ever experienced in life.
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110%er [7200]
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Re: If you are truly open then I would say
Dec 24, 2022, 6:46 AM
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Brother it sounds like something occurred during that time in your life that hardened your heart. Reading the Bible is good anytime we can. Though reading it to disprove it invites the temptations of doubt before you crack the book.
Asked God to guide you as you read and do so as an innocent with no preconceived thoughts. I love you and pray that this can be accomplished because he is there at your heart ready to come in and fill you with his love.
All we have to do is admit we are sinners and ask for him to enter our hearts to forgive us of those sins. And in Jesus's name u will be saved and your life will be different. Very well may be harder to live but having our savior with us makes it wonderful.
Im praying for you.
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Based on the little I know about you...
Dec 22, 2022, 7:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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... I think you are looking for a rational explanation to convince you of the existence of God, and then the nature and character of God.
Here are a few books I would recommend to you.
I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. - Frank Turek
Believing is seeing. - Michael Guillen
Return of the God hypothesis. - Stephen Meyer
The case for Christ. - Lee Strobel
Cold case Christianity. - J. Warner Wallace
Those books, coming from different perspectives all study the "real world" and come to the same conclusion. There is a God, and His character and nature are accurately described in the Bible.
Three of the authors - Guillen (scientist), Strobel (journalist), and Wallace (police detective) - were all avowed atheists until they studied the evidence trying to prove that Christianity was a lie.
They all explored the claims of Christianity from different perspectives and came to the same conclusion.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: Based on the little I know about you...
Dec 23, 2022, 9:44 AM
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I’m not really looking for anything. I’m pretty convinced that Christianity isn’t true. However, I could be convinced.
It’s funny to recommend atheists that became Christians when I was a Christian that became an atheist.
Strobel’s book was so unconvincing. I honestly laugh when people suggest it to me. I get surprised that others find it convincing. No offense though.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: Based on the little I know about you...
Dec 23, 2022, 7:02 PM
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It can be very convincing to someone new to the world of textual criticism.
Was for me once upon a time.
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110%er [7200]
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Trotsky you can't be born again then axed
Dec 24, 2022, 11:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Based on the little I know about you... ] |
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Its as simple as whoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. A person born again can be many things., not walking with the lord, backsliding, a hardening if heart and many other things.
It is possible since you were young you may have not been led to lord by his sons blood. If you confessed with your mouth and believed in your heart then you are saved. We can not run from the lord after this because the lord is always with us. Repenting is what must happen at that juncture.
I do not follow a conventional Christian path. I believe what I read in the Bible and if I read any literature that expounds on the teachings if Christ the the lord always tells me if its correct or if I am being deceived.
Thats the wonderful and good news about our lord and savior! The lord does not lie to us and the lord does not want us picking apart our brothers faults because every person here including myself has that plank in our eye when we are trying to get the speck of dust from our brothers eye out.
I'll leave with this.
The Bible tells us the wages of sin is death but gift of God us eternal life through Jesus christ.
You need no books and you need not to open the Bible. You need what I need and that is to go to the lord and give ourselves over to his will.
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110%er [5074]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 7:01 PM
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Thanks for your honesty Leon.
As a Christian I wish you nothing but the best. Go Tigers
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All-In [27363]
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Religion is
Dec 21, 2022, 7:57 PM
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A belief. Nothing more.
Many believe it to be composed of facts .... but it isnt!
The business world has taught me that the Savior for many is the almighty dollar. I made the decision long ago that if a man went to church more than once a week , you better watch him! If he rides around town with his bible on the seat of his pickup, you better stay shy of him! You’re asking for it. I have had the misfortune of having “bible thumpers” take me for a million plus on a recent deal. I can live with it because I know I’m a man of his word.... and I don’t need to put up a false front.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Religion is
Dec 21, 2022, 8:08 PM
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There are pretenders for sure and it can be hard to tell the difference. None of us are perfect and we all fall short no matter how "good" we may think we are. But there will come a day when all of that gets sorted out.
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Legend [19567]
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Wheat and tares
Dec 21, 2022, 8:24 PM
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Philippians 2:5-11
No exceptions, you're either bowing and confessing Him as Savior and Lord, or you're guilty before Him, the only just Judge who died so we would not be judged guilty if we'd only believe from the heart
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: Wheat and tares
Dec 21, 2022, 8:37 PM
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Sounds like mythology to me. 1,000 years from now people will view Christianity the way we view Zeus. People need a God and hope of an after life because deep down they are scared of death and need some ######## guidance to keep them from going crazy and “sinning”.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Wheat and tares
Dec 21, 2022, 8:44 PM
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Actually, the fear of death is greatly diminished when you have faith in someone who shows you there is nothing to be afraid of.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Wheat and tares
Dec 21, 2022, 8:47 PM
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And there is nothing that keeps anyone from sinning. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Our own evil nature is why we needed a savior in the first place because no one can ever be good enough to save themselves.
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: Wheat and tares
Dec 21, 2022, 9:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wheat and tares ] |
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Thanks for confirming my point. You have to have belief in the hope of an after life to not fear death.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Wheat and tares
Dec 21, 2022, 9:35 PM
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I'm sure there are brave souls out there who don't fear death regardless. I'm simply saying it is much easier when you already know what is waiting for you on the other side.
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Legend [19567]
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Been 2000 years already
Dec 21, 2022, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wheat and tares ] |
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still going strong
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Wheat and tares
Dec 22, 2022, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Wheat and tares ] |
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Correct. Every person on this planet has made a decision about Jesus. You either believe Jesus is the Son of God or you don't. As Jesus said, you are either for Me or against Me. Mark 9:40.
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CU Guru [1572]
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Re: Religion is
Dec 21, 2022, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to Religion is ] |
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There is no u-haul behind a hearse, Foresttiger. So I hope you spend all you make before you die.
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All-In [27363]
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Re: Religion is
Dec 21, 2022, 8:51 PM
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I’m working on it!
I just hope the sacred men I have dealt with are happy in heaven! I fear, if there is another destination, that is where they may be found.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Religion is
Dec 21, 2022, 8:55 PM
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Glad to hear it! Just keep an open mind and keep searching for that truth.
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Legend [19567]
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Judging God by the actions of men
Dec 21, 2022, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Religion is ] |
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will always let you down. I'm a pastor, I know! Judge God by what He has said. Even those who believe, and strive to follow Jesus fall short.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Judging God by the actions of men
Dec 22, 2022, 3:27 PM
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Striper, love your perspectives and appreciate all of your input!
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Christianity is a belief based on....
Dec 21, 2022, 9:18 PM
[ in reply to Religion is ] |
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.... a combination of reason, logic and scientific and historical facts.
How much faith does it take to believe that nothing took nothing and created something out of nothing?
How much faith does it take to believe that some atoms who came from somewhere and somehow got together and somehow created ameno acid which sommehow created some protiens and somehow created the information in DNA to create life and this life evolved into grass and horses and fish and trees giraffes and finally into a species that is capable of rational thinking and making moral judgments.
There is plenty of scientific evidence that contradicts that belief and a tremendous lack of evidence to support it.
As for the historical evidence: If Jesus Christ did not resurrect from the grave, what happened. (I've asked this question to people for over 45 years. No one so far has given an answer that has any evidence to support it. Most just scoff and refuse to even try to answer.)
But, people believe it anyway. I admire your faith. I could never have that much faith. I would need some evidence to support it.
As for
I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: Christianity is a belief based on....
Dec 21, 2022, 9:25 PM
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What proof do you have that “Jesus” was resurrected? By the way there is no J in the Hebrew language. His name was yeshua. Why is the god of the Old Testament the complete opposite of the New Testament? Why don’t miracles happen today? Why doesn’t God tell me to sacrifice my children then tell me to stop as I put the knife to their neck?
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Legend [19567]
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There were 500 witnesses to Christ's resurrection
Dec 21, 2022, 9:44 PM
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if you went to court with 500 eye witnesses saying you were innocent, would the judge believe you?
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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If Jesus was not resurrected, then....
Dec 22, 2022, 7:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Christianity is a belief based on.... ] |
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... what happened?
I've asked people to answer that question, and give a reason for their belief, for 45+ years. So far, no one has even tried to give an answer and defend it. I hope you will be the first.
1. Swoon Theory
2. Unknown tomb
3. Wrong tomb
4. Disciples stole the body
5. Pharisees stole the body
6. Romans stole the body
7. Legend
None of those theories stand up as being reasonable or rational. To believe any of those theories you have to accept a whole lot on faith that is contradictory to reality.
Maybe you have an 8th explanation. I'd love to hear it.
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Legend [19567]
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Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then....
Dec 22, 2022, 9:08 AM
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Paul says we worship in vain, our worship is useless, if the resurrection is not true. He suffered horribly, with joy, for the sake of this truth, eventually being beheaded for it
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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If Jesus was not resurrected, then....
Dec 22, 2022, 7:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Christianity is a belief based on.... ] |
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... what happened?
I've asked people to answer that question, and give a reason for their belief, for 45+ years. So far, no one has even tried to give an answer and defend it. I hope you will be the first.
1. Swoon Theory
2. Unknown tomb
3. Wrong tomb
4. Disciples stole the body
5. Pharisees stole the body
6. Romans stole the body
7. Legend
None of those theories stand up as being reasonable or rational. To believe any of those theories you have to accept a whole lot on faith that is contradictory to reality.
Maybe you have an 8th explanation. I'd love to hear it.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then....
Dec 22, 2022, 8:58 AM
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8. A band of nuts made the story up.
All of those explanations are still more plausible than a man rising from the dead, and that same man throwing everybody who doesn't believe it in hell.
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Legend [19567]
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And then were willing to die in horrible ways
Dec 22, 2022, 9:07 AM
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for the lie?
How does that make sense?
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: And then were willing to die in horrible ways
Dec 22, 2022, 9:12 AM
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Muslims are willing to fly planes into buildings and blow theirselves up in the name of Allah....does that make it true?
If I'm choosing a religion based on how strongly it's adherents seem to believe it, I dang sure wouldn't pick christianity.
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Legend [19567]
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How does taking others lives bring glory to God?
Dec 22, 2022, 9:19 AM
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yet that's what Islam teaches. Though many have misused the bible in such ways, that's not what it teaches. I've preached many times that Satan's followers are more committed than Christ's, so we do not disagree there, sadly
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: How does taking others lives bring glory to God?
Dec 22, 2022, 9:28 AM
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I'm just saying that someone dying for a belief doesn't make it true.
Also, there's little proof that any of the apostles were actually martyred, or that they even existed.
But here's what it comes down to for me....
If the bible were true and our eternal destiny depended on our reaction to what it teaches, I don't believe it would be up for debate.
There would be irrefutable evidence that nobody could deny.
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: How does taking others lives bring glory to God?
Dec 22, 2022, 11:25 AM
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Then it wouldn't take faith to be a Christian. god didn't create us to be His robots, he gives us a thing called free will. He wants us to love him on our own volition. Sure He could either make us love Him or show so much "physical evidence" that it His existence and love couldn't be denied, but in doing so we wouldn't have faith and truly believe on our own volition. Thus, our minds would be made up for us. You wouldn't want you mate to be forced to love you or for their mind to be made up for them to love you, God doesn't want this either. And "how important is faith to God?", one might ask. The Bible tells us in the book of Hebrews, "6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6 NKJV
I truly hope and pray that God will reveal Himself through His Son to you in a way that is real to you. "... He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."
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Legend [19567]
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Little proof?
Dec 22, 2022, 2:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: How does taking others lives bring glory to God? ] |
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Jewish history, church fathers who followed the apostles, witnesses across the then known world acknowledge the existence of the apostles and their testimony of Jesus.
Irrefutable evidence? Then there would be no need for faith. God desires us to believe, come in faith. Hebrews 11:6, "Without faith, it is impossible to please God." Romans 1 says you should be able to look at creation and know there is a God. To understand that the complexity that exists did not occur by chance.
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Is your answer reasonable and rational?
Dec 22, 2022, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then.... ] |
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Or do you just believe it because you WANT to believe it.
Actually look at your claim and measure it against the evidence. People can ignore evidence and jump to whatever conclusion they think best fits their desires.
Your statement is illogical and unreasonable and against all human nature and common logic.
A person might be willing to die for a lie that he thinks is the truth (the guys who flew the planes into the Twin Towers in NYC. But, who is willing to die for a lie that he KNOWS is a lie?
I understand if your premise begins with, "There is no God" then you have to come up with an explanation that concludes there is no God.
I suspect you may be in the category of "I not only don't believe in God. I not only don't want to believe in God. I strongly want to NOT believe in God."
If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: Is your answer reasonable and rational?
Dec 22, 2022, 12:32 PM
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"Or do you just believe it because you WANT to believe it.
Actually look at your claim and measure it against the evidence. People can ignore evidence and jump to whatever conclusion they think best fits their desires."
I've read all the Lee Strobel books. I've read Mere Christianity. Read a lot of Craig Blomberg and William Lane Craig.
Christianity is a fascinating thing and I've done a lot of studying into it and still do. At the end of the day nobody knows, not even the most knowledgable New Testament Scholar, who wrote the gospels and what their intentions were.
There is very little to corroborate any of their lives outside the New Testament. The Jewish historian Josephus barely mentions Jesus, and when he does it is believed that most of what he said was a forgery by a later christian scribe.
We know for a fact that there were added passages. Not to mention the hundreds maybe even thousands of christian sects that have disagreed on important theological matters throughout history and still today.
"Your statement is illogical and unreasonable and against all human nature and common logic.
A person might be willing to die for a lie that he thinks is the truth (the guys who flew the planes into the Twin Towers in NYC. But, who is willing to die for a lie that he KNOWS is a lie?"
Again though, there is little proof that they actually were martyred and the extent of the persecution is up for debate.
"I understand if your premise begins with, "There is no God" then you have to come up with an explanation that concludes there is no God.
I suspect you may be in the category of "I not only don't believe in God. I not only don't want to believe in God. I strongly want to NOT believe in God."
If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?"
I don't think I would worship someone who was going to torture the majority of the human population for eternity.
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Thanks for your reply.
Dec 22, 2022, 2:36 PM
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I appreciate your honesty.
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: Is your answer reasonable and rational?
Dec 22, 2022, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is your answer reasonable and rational? ] |
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You accept Josephus’ writing a, but you discount FOUR primary source documents? You also discredit the contemporary writing of the Acts by Luke? Are you really suggesting that the Gospels aren’t primary source documents because why? Because they are apart of the Bible? So? That doesn’t discredit the fact they are primary source documents, and they WERE written in the first century. You may not believe what the Gospels say, but you cannot deny they are primary source documents.
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then....
Dec 22, 2022, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to If Jesus was not resurrected, then.... ] |
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A band of nuts made it up. Or took bits and pieces from previous religions and put them together to make a new religion. Then that said religion started spreading when Constantine( a pagan) made it the religion of Constantinople to control the people and give them something to live for. Also, how weird is it that Easter isn’t actually a Christian holiday? It’s a pagan holiday celebrating Ester, the goddess of fertility, hence the eggs. And Easter bunny. I’m sure you’ve heard the term ####### like rabbits. What about Christmas? Also a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice. Christianity is literally paganism made modern.
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Legend [19567]
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What lie are you ready to die for?
Dec 22, 2022, 9:13 AM
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Peter was crucified upside down. Paul was beheaded. James killed by the sword. Others burned at the stake, thrown to the lions, lit on fire to light the streets of Rome.
People don't die for lies
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: What lie are you ready to die for?
Dec 22, 2022, 7:19 PM
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People die for lies all the time. They are convinced they are are not lies...
So Islam must be true then. How many Muslims and other religions die for said religious beliefs?!?
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then....
Dec 22, 2022, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then.... ] |
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"Or took bits and pieces from previous religions and put them together to make a new religion"
This is the most likely scenario.
You can find bits and pieces of a lot of different religions and major religious figures in christianity and Jesus.
The funny thing about modern christianity is that it looks a whole lot different than what I would call New Testament christianity.
The New Testament christians were on a mission to spread the gospel. If you want to hear the gospel now days you have to go to a church, and even then you might not hear it.
And if you go to a few different churches, you will hear a bunch of different beliefs.
That's one of the major things that turned me away from it, that christians can even get their own religious beliefs straight.
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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I don't know about that.
Dec 22, 2022, 10:44 AM
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I think this thread is evidence that Christians, including Dabo, are willing to spread the message of Christ outside the walls of the church.
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All-TigerNet [10602]
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Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then....
Dec 22, 2022, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: If Jesus was not resurrected, then.... ] |
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I would be curious to know what you think the Bible teaches that does not make this planet a better place.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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I mean, why is #7 so hard to accept as the answer.
Dec 22, 2022, 10:27 AM
[ in reply to If Jesus was not resurrected, then.... ] |
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It's exactly what you consider the thousands of other religions to be. What's adding one more to that list?
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Because it doesn't fit the definition of a legend.
Dec 22, 2022, 10:50 AM
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Just like the assassination of Abraham Lincoln or John Kennedy doesn't fit the definition.
The story of Christ being resurrected was documented (Biblical and extra-Biblical) by eyewitnesses and contemporaries of those eyewitnesses. Christianity didn't start 200 years later when a guy said, "My grandpa would sit around the campfire and tell me stories about what his grandpa told him."
People believe Brutus killed Julius Caesar. They would scoff at someone who called that a legend. People would scoff at someone how called The bombing of Pearl Harbor a legend.
Sorry, the resurrection of Christ does not meet the criteria of a legend.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Because it doesn't fit the definition of a legend.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:38 PM
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> Sorry, the resurrection of Christ does not meet the criteria of a legend.
Going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
Outside the Bible, where are the contemporary accounts that people literary rose from the dead? Where are the accounts for ANY miracles that stand up to the historical scrutiny that Julius Caesar/Pearl Harbor did?
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: I mean, why is #7 so hard to accept as the answer.
Dec 22, 2022, 11:56 AM
[ in reply to I mean, why is #7 so hard to accept as the answer. ] |
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One of the biggest things that separates Christianity from the "thousands of other religions" is that it is not based upon works. Salvation comes by faith and faith alone. All these others require you to do something to achieve "salvation", or "enlightenment", or "paradise", or whatever it may be to be successful at that religion. In following Christ, Christianity, it's not about what I do, but instead it's about what He did. Jesus paid my sin debt that I could never pay with His blood, His life, on the cross. We can now accept salvation through faith in Jesus and a true belief in His sacrifice for us. It's not a person's works that justifies them in the sight of God. It is their faith in Him and His Son. Now, I will say this, once a person has chosen to accept this free gift of salvation through faith, works will then follow. When someone really enter into a relationship with Jesus, their actions, behaviors, wants, and desires will start to change. Will they be perfect and never sin? Will they never be tempted with the sins that have plagued them from the past? No! The "sin nature" we are all born with will remain, however they will now have more power to resist more often and that will grow as they mature in Christ. Here's a neat way to put it, "being a (true) Christian doesn't mean you'll be sinless, but being a (true) Christian means you will sin less". God bless you, have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: I mean, why is #7 so hard to accept as the answer.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:17 PM
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> When someone really enter into a relationship with Jesus, their actions, behaviors, wants, and desires will start to change.
I'll have to take your word for that one. I grew up going to church and saw no difference between people claiming they were saved and those who were not.
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: I mean, why is #7 so hard to accept as the answer.
Dec 22, 2022, 3:40 PM
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That's the difference between a True believer that believes with all their heart and not only he wants Jesus to be their savior but also their lord. Where they stop following their preferences and will and start seeking His. It takes more than just a mental assent to the existence of the man Jesus you must follow him and seek Him in all aspects of your life. It has to be in your heart, the deepest part of you. There are a lot of people who have it all up in their head but it's not in their heart. And that's really sad. Again I will reiterate, a Christian is not going to be perfect, they are going to fail they are going to do dumb things, hurtful things, mean things that non-believers do as well. But, they shouldn't embrace it it should repent soon after when they realize error of their ways. The conviction of the holy spirit will bring around what is termed a Godly sorrow in their heart and they will ask the Lord for forgiveness. And not only will that happen but their heart will change. They're minds about certain things will change. And there will be good things that are produced from their relationship with christ, that's how Jesus said we will know it who is a Christian and who isn't by their love for one another. When you love someone you do things that show that love. When the love of Christ gets inside you it starts to show in other places. Now I know a lot of people who are unbelievers will see a quote Christian send and all of a sudden oh my gosh look at this hypocrite and then write them off as not being a Christian or a true Christian or a good christian. Truth is everyone is a hypocrite no one is perfect no one always does the right thing. But the difference between a non-believer who sins and a Believer who sins is that the believer has forgiveness. By grace through faith in that alone not by anything that they can do. The forgiveness for all the bad stuff we've ever done in our life are going to do is sitting right there in front of us someone has stepped up and said I will pay your debt, but we have to accept that. But the biggest thing for a non-believer is realizing that they need a savior because a lot of times life is good and like why do I need any saving. Saving from what? My life is good. But the fact is we're all born with this same nature that must be accounted for. We naturally know how to lie, steel, throw temper tantrums, Etc. No one has to teach us that because it's ingrained in us from birth. That is the sin nature I'm talking about, we have to be taught what is right and how to behave and what is good. And all those things that are right and good comes from god. Our rules and laws from God's law. And God's law is for our good to help us, it also is there to show us that we are not perfect and we do need Him. I'm very sorry that you've been exposed to a lot of people who claim to be Christians but their life did not show that. That's one of the biggest tools of the enemy which, is Satan who wants all to fail and be ######. False professors of Christianity are one of the biggest detriments to the spreading of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that there has ever been. I hope you start to come in contact with the true Christians that will share Christ's love with you and that you'll be able to see it in their actions as well as in their speech. May God bless you on your journey for truth.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: I mean, why is #7 so hard to accept as the answer.
Dec 23, 2022, 12:03 PM
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> Saving from what? My life is good. But the fact is we're all born with this same nature that must be accounted for. We naturally know how to lie, steel, throw temper tantrums, Etc. No one has to teach us that because it's ingrained in us from birth. That is the sin nature I'm talking about, we have to be taught what is right and how to behave and what is good.
That logic ruins the whole thing for me.
If we are born with this sinful nature, that means we were created with it. That means God created us with a sinful nature. Which in turns means we were created knowing full well that we would be punished for doing something we literally have no control over. That doesn't sound the least bit loving to me. I also don't believe you can justify that without twisting yourself into a pretzel, either.
A truly loving option doesn't involve eternal hellfire (which, btw, wasn't really part of Christian doctrine until the 2nd century anyway).
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110%er [7200]
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Re: Religion is
Dec 24, 2022, 11:11 PM
[ in reply to Religion is ] |
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Right on forest. It sure dies seem that way now
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All-TigerNet [12529]
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I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 21, 2022, 8:03 PM
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Christians are right. I must admit, I have had doubts. There's an old saying, "The truth is the walls of hospitals have heard more prayers than the walls of churches." That has certainly been the case for me. I have prayed very hard in hospitals, rarely gone to church. That's just me.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 21, 2022, 8:19 PM
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That’s an interesting perspective. I’m not sure I’d want Christianity to be right though. The idea that a God would penalize us for our own thoughts is pretty weird to me. Or penalize us for the things that occur to us in our dreams.
Plus, the descriptions of Heaven aren’t appealing. Worshipping God, 24/7, for eternity? What if I want to take a nap?
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Legend [19567]
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He sent His Son so that there would be no penalty
Dec 21, 2022, 8:26 PM
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for those who will believe.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: He sent His Son so that there would be no penalty
Dec 22, 2022, 12:39 PM
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To save us from what exactly? Something he created?
The biggest argument I hear is that we were "free" to choose. Ok, but you still have a major gun to your head (hell) if you don't do as told. Not sure how free that is.
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Legend [19567]
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Why would you not want to do what God
Dec 22, 2022, 6:34 PM
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has told you? Is He telling you things that are bad for you?
God did not create sin, in Him there is no sin. We choose sin. We like sin, even the bible says it is "pleasurable for a season." Problem comes when we love our sin more than God. That makes sin an idol and our choices, our God. They come first for us.
God wants Himself to come first for us, though in this life, we never perfect that, as sin is always within us
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Why would you not want to do what God
Dec 23, 2022, 6:38 PM
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> God did not create sin, in Him there is no sin
He created us and we win. I don't see any way around saying that he created sin.
> Why would you not want to do what God has told you? Is He telling you things that are bad for you?
I mean, if he was real and told me that, sure I'd listen. But it's literally just people like you telling me that he exists without any evidence whatsoever.
> God wants Himself to come first for us, though in this life, we never perfect that, as sin is always within us
Again, if God didn't create us, there would be no sin. But you are saying that he did, therefore, he literally created sin.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 21, 2022, 8:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the ] |
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I would say you have acquired some perspectives that are not exactly in line with the Christianity I am familiar with and believe in. However, I respect your opinions and your right to choose what to believe or not believe. Christianity is not something to be forced on someone and I hope I haven't come across that way here.
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All-TigerNet [10602]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 22, 2022, 10:55 AM
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Great perspective. The human reaction is to be offended when someone disagrees with you or to lash out at those that disagree. Being a Christian is overcoming human nature and responding in love rather than anger. I am of the opinion that we are all born to be sinful ....... every last one of us. As Christians, we should spend each day trying and overcome that sinful nature, and although we all fall short, we are forgiven if we ask for it. I admit that I have a long way to go and daily ask God not to give up on me.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 22, 2022, 12:36 PM
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And He never will. As the Good Book says, "I will never leave you or forsake you."
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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If you sincerely hope Christianity is right...
Dec 21, 2022, 9:22 PM
[ in reply to I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the ] |
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.... then I suggest that you search for yourself what Christianity really is, and not just what you think it is.
Christianity is right. And, to those who believe it is not merely a desire that it be right. Christ will change your life.
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: If you sincerely hope Christianity is right...
Dec 21, 2022, 9:30 PM
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I think your self righteous attitude is the problem. You religious folk are all the same, you know your religion is right and everyone else’s is wrong. So, somehow you are right but the billions of others who believe differently are wrong? So people who are raised Hindu or Muslim, just like you were raised Christian, deserve to go to hell because they don’t believe a foreign religion? That’s like saying you deserve to go to hell because you don’t believe in Islam or Hinduism to them. It makes no sense. Completely illogical
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Legend [19567]
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God is not a God of disorder, but of order
Dec 21, 2022, 9:50 PM
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Satan is the deceiver and author of confusion. So either all roads are right and lead to heaven, even though they differ starkly, or one does.
Jesus said, "I am the way, I am the truth, and I am the light. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'
Narrow is the way to life, and few find it. Wide is the path to destruction.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God is not a God of disorder, but of order
Dec 23, 2022, 1:51 PM
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> Narrow is the way to life, and few find it. Wide is the path to destruction.
And that sounds loving to you? To create a situation where only a few will avoid eternal suffering?
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Legend [19567]
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All have the chance, including you
Dec 23, 2022, 4:10 PM
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all you have to do is believe from the heart. He provided the way, you have to take it
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: All have the chance, including you
Dec 23, 2022, 6:40 PM
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Imagine a Hindu saying this to you. Would you just believe it without evidence? Of course not.
This is EXACTLY what you are doing right now. I find it extremely odd that you only ever hear about God through people and never straight from the source.
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110%er [6461]
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Yes, Christians believe we have been given the truth.
Dec 22, 2022, 7:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: If you sincerely hope Christianity is right... ] |
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Just like atheists do. Just like Muslims do. Just like any other religion or belief system does.
But, our belief is supported by reality. Our belief is supported by overwhelming evidence.
People have a worldview that falls into one of two categories:
1. I will live my life as though God does not exist.
2. God affects the way I live my life.
Dabo, and I, are in group 2.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: Yes, Christians believe we have been given the truth.
Dec 22, 2022, 9:02 AM
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Atheists don't believe they have been given the truth.
They simply take the world and the evidence as it is and are still searching for the truth.
Christians ignore things that don't suit their worldview, but at the same time try to prove it with science and history.
For example, when the historical process undermines christianity you ignore it, but when it helps your case you embrace it.
Also, you ignore science that points to evolution, but I guarantee you run to the doctor when you are sick and rely on science.
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All-TigerNet [10602]
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Re: Yes, Christians believe we have been given the truth.
Dec 22, 2022, 11:02 AM
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When I think of atheists, I think of Madelyn Murray O'hair, founder of American Atheists and I think whose lawsuit against prayers in school was upheld by the Supreme Court. Her son later became a Christian and once when an interviewer asked her if her son came back to her and asked for forgiveness, would she forgive him. Her answer was "no, I don't have to, because I am not a Christian". She could not have answered more perfectly.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Yes, Christians believe we have been given the truth.
Dec 23, 2022, 1:54 PM
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Do we want to go down that road and start giving anecdotes of how Christians behave?
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CU Guru [1444]
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Where is the proof of evolution?
Dec 22, 2022, 11:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, Christians believe we have been given the truth. ] |
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If science truly points to evolution, which implies random creation, and one species creating/evolving into another species … then with all the species in the world, why is there absolutely NO evidence of one species evolving into another by the existence of half of one species and half of another species?
Can you accept that the absence of evolution is proof of intelligent design .. by God?
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Yes, Christians believe we have been given the truth.
Dec 23, 2022, 1:52 PM
[ in reply to Yes, Christians believe we have been given the truth. ] |
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> Our belief is supported by overwhelming evidence.
I'm assuming you can provide this? I've never seen a single shred of hard evidence for anything supernatural, so this would be very helpful if you actually possess it.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Do you think that what you believe is right?
Dec 22, 2022, 7:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: If you sincerely hope Christianity is right... ] |
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Perhaps you think that not believing anything is the right attitude or that allowing for anyone to believe whatever they wish or want. Maybe that's right?
Anyway you shake it you are a man of faith, whether you believe or believe that you don't believe.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 22, 2022, 11:17 AM
[ in reply to I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the ] |
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Think about what that means, though. You, or someone you love, is in the hospital, so you pray for them. Does that mean, that you or your loved one would have died if not for the prayer? Also, it doesn't seem to work every time. It's almost as if the result is statistically the same whether you pray or not.
Basically, you always here that it's "God's will". Ok, but then how does prayer come into the picture? He won't act unless you pray? Was it God's will that you pray to get better?
All of these silly questions go away when you realize it's just a myth.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 22, 2022, 12:00 PM
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All I can tell you is that we were all uniquely and wonderfully made in His image and God has a plan for each of us. As it says in Jeremiah 29:11, it is a plan to prosper us and not harm us. Since it is God's plan for each of us individually, how it unfolds is rarely in the manner with which we expect. Prayer is our way to communicate our wants and needs and in asking for forgiveness when we fall short of God's glory. God chooses to answer based on His love for us and His plan for us but that doesn't mean it all turns out precisely the way we asked.
The Bible also says that His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are above our thoughts. We live in the natural and He is supernatural so we are not equipped in this life to understand all of God's plan. Some things we will have to patiently wait to understand in the next life but when Jesus returns, every knee will bow and much clarity will be suddenly instantaneous.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 22, 2022, 12:21 PM
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> All I can tell you is that we were all uniquely and wonderfully made in His image and God has a plan for each of us.
Unless he did this through evolution, this is unequivocally not true. There is so much hard evidence that it is 100% clear that we evolved. Literally, the only people who don't know that are religious people that have an agenda.
> much clarity will be suddenly instantaneous.
How terrible that this information would be withheld until after you die, though.
So we are given no hard evidence about what we should do until after it's too late?
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 22, 2022, 12:29 PM
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That is where faith plays a role. I believe in the source of the information coming from God's word and I place my faith in its accuracy. Again, that may not be enough for some but it works for me.
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 22, 2022, 7:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the ] |
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I am sorry, but you do not understand the meaning of "made us in his image". He made us in his "spiritual image" not bodily image.
I do believe that we have evolved over the years much like evidenced in animals that have lived in different environments, but I have yet to see the fossils of a half man/half monkey or a half fish/half human. Dogs do not evolve into cats, or monkeys into humans. There is a spirit in man that allows us to love others ....... not because they feed us or give us shelter, but pure brotherly love. I can't find an answer for that outside of my faith.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the
Dec 23, 2022, 12:08 PM
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> I do believe that we have evolved over the years much like evidenced in animals that have lived in different environments, but I have yet to see the fossils of a half man/half monkey or a half fish/half human. Dogs do not evolve into cats, or monkeys into humans. There is a spirit in man that allows us to love others ....... not because they feed us or give us shelter, but pure brotherly love. I can't find an answer for that outside of my faith.
I love being told I don't understand something just to be countered with a massive misunderstanding.
> Dogs do not evolve into cats, or monkeys into humans.
You're correct, that's not what the theory of evolution claims. This is pretty basic middle school biology, it would be trivial to clear up your misunderstandings if you did a little reading.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I hope this gives you insight into prayer and what it accomp
Dec 24, 2022, 11:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'm not an atheist, but rather person that hopes the ] |
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My mother passed away a little under a year and a half ago. Very devastating and I would not bring it up if I did not want you to truly understand prayer.
She had Parkinson for probably the last 7 to 10 years and congestive heart failure for a few months. Did I pray for a miracle? Of course I prayed for a miracle. Though my relationship with my savior let's me know that science has no cure for Parkinson and the medication causes more problems than the effects of the disease. I would gladly give the rest of my days to spend 1 more with my mother just to tell her I love her and hug her and let her know how much she meant to me.
I'm gonna finish weeping now.
I prayed for God's will to be done and that if it was my mothers time then for him to come take her home. I prayed that prayer and the only other prayers were for her to be as comfortable as she could be until he took her hand. No one will escape God's will. As with the first sin was locked hand in hand with death and sin so was God's plan for man to have a relationship with our lord and after Christ our lord and savior.
Praying for someone to beat a sickness is wise. Do I think God delivers us from sickness. Of course but it has to be in his plan. For me to think I can change God's plan is putting myself on a level with him.
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:06 PM
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Fellow atheist here and I share your views on Dabo and the positivity it has brought on him.
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110%er [6312]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:13 PM
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It’s honestly crazy to see how religion impacts people differently.
My aunt, for example, lives a very unhealthy life. She is morbidly obese. We’ve tried to encourage her to eat healthier, exercise, and lose weight. Her responses is always “Why does it matter? I’ll get a new body in Heaven anyways.”
Christianity has turned her idle because she believes Heaven awaits her no matter what. Whereas it has made Dabo work harder and appreciate his life even more.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:18 PM
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I spent my career in and around hospitals. I used to watch Lung Cancer patients during Chemo treatments walk outside and have a smoke. Rationalization can be a very powerful coping mechanism.
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Imagine the progress that could occur if everyone believed this is the only life we get.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:50 PM
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If everyone believed this was all there was, we would have nothing but anarchy. Every dog for himself and anything goes...
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Orange Blooded [4658]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:01 PM
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If you’re an atheist, there are no rules because there is no ultimate authority but self. There’s no right. There’s no wrong.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:04 PM
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My response was based on what I believe would happen if everyone felt that way. If we all live by our own standards and believe there are no consequences for our actions because there is no right or wrong then I believe our world would get even crazier than it is already.
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Legend [19567]
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There is a way that seems right to man
Dec 21, 2022, 9:25 PM
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But leads to destruction
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a way that seems right to man
Dec 21, 2022, 9:55 PM
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Enter by the narrow gate...
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Orange Blooded [4658]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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100%
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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You’re wrong. I’m an atheist. I know it’s wrong to steal, rape, kill for anything other than self defense. I know it’s wrong to abandon your family. I know it’s wrong to take another mans wife. I don’t know what to tell you man. I don’t believe in God and I know right from wrong
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Legend [19567]
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Where do you think that moral standard came from
Dec 21, 2022, 9:41 PM
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a hint is, you were made in His image
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CU Guru [1681]
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The origin of modern western morality and ethics
Dec 21, 2022, 10:00 PM
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predates Christianity by about 700 years, but go off.
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Legend [19567]
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It doesn't predate creation
Dec 21, 2022, 10:16 PM
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which is where God said, "let Us make man in Our image."
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CU Guru [1681]
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Of course it doesn't predate creation
Dec 21, 2022, 10:29 PM
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"Creation" for lack of a better term occurred several billion years ago. God "making us in his image" didn't "happen" until about 300,000ish years after evolutionary changes resulted in the first #### sapiens. The earliest codes of law/morality predate ancient Judaism's decision to say man was created in god's image by over 1500 years.
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Legend [19567]
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Who created?
Dec 21, 2022, 10:35 PM
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Creation requires a Creator. At no time has something came from nothing. Someone had to create the first something
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CU Guru [1681]
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But wait, if at no time something came from nothing
Dec 21, 2022, 11:13 PM
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Where did the someone come from? Your logic doesn't make sense.
The answer is we don't quite know for sure what made the conditions right for the generation of the products of matter on a universal scale. There are plenty of theories but it's one of science's great questions with many theories, the least convincing of which is divine creation.
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Legend [19567]
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And that's where faith comes in
Dec 22, 2022, 7:09 AM
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as the bible teaches God is eternal. Always was, is and will be. Can I logically explain that? Of course not, and I'm glad I can't. A God I could perfectly understand in this imperfect body and life would not be God. There is mystery to many aspects of God, as there should be. He's God, we are not. There is no mystery as to how He forgives sin, as He has clearly revealed that to us. He's clearly revealed much to us, and other things He's reserved just for Himself. As God He has that right.
If we knew everything about God, we'd be creating humanity and life out of thin air. We'd be making new trees to replace harvested ones, valuable minerals to fill our coffers, new suns, moons and stars. But we aren't, because we can't, as we are not God.
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110%er [6461]
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Re: And that's where faith comes in
Dec 23, 2022, 7:12 AM
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The biggest problem in understanding the existence of God is that The human mind thinks in time. God does not exist in time. He created time. In the beginning (which includes the beginning of time) God created..... Time began and time will end. The human mind is somewhat capable of dealing with eternity future, but it is totally incapable of dealing with eternity past. In actuality there is no future or past with eternity. Eternity is simply eternity.
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Legend [19567]
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Our feeble human minds can define eternity
Dec 23, 2022, 7:22 AM
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nut we have no concept as to what it really means to have always been and will always be
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110%er [6461]
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Re: Who created?
Dec 23, 2022, 7:07 AM
[ in reply to Who created? ] |
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It takes "blind faith" to believe that something came from nothing. It takes more faith to believe this universe came from nothing and that the energy to power it came from nothing than it takes to believe in a supernatural creator.
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Legend [19567]
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It amazes me that folks can look at everything man has built
Dec 23, 2022, 7:27 AM
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or made and know someone created that thing, but want to assign pure chance to everything not made by man, of which all are far more complex than the things made by man. The mathematic gymnastics to say that DNA occurred by pure chance are just absurd to the ridiculous
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: It doesn't predate creation
Dec 22, 2022, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to It doesn't predate creation ] |
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That creation story you are referring to is only a few thousand years old. Man has been around for orders of magnitude longer than that.
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Legend [19567]
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Was there a creation? If so, who created?
Dec 22, 2022, 2:45 PM
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the account given to Moses was roughly 3500 years ago. A date for creation is not given, and I'm not one to assign one. But it still does not remove the fact that Someone had to create the first something, that the first something did not magically appear from nothing
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Was there a creation? If so, who created?
Dec 23, 2022, 12:10 PM
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Where did the creator come from?
If you say he always existed, why can't we say the universe always existed? It's the exact same logic.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Where do you think that moral standard came from
Dec 22, 2022, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to Where do you think that moral standard came from ] |
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Correct again. There must be some standard to determine what is right and what is wrong. That standard is the Bible.
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Orange Blooded [4658]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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You are 100% making my point. Where do you think that comes from? I think God gives us a conscience. It certainly isn’t society. The only reason any of us know what is “wrong” is that there is an ultimate authority (God). Notice I didn’t say religion.
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Legend [19567]
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Man's standards are whatever he decides they are
Dec 21, 2022, 9:59 PM
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each person has his own view of right and wrong. Some lead moral lives, other extraordinarily evil ones. Without God's standards, it is chaos. Which is what we see now, and throughout history. Man apart from God is capable of extreme evil and immorality. Even with God that sinful nature is still in us, but the One in us is stronger than the one in the world. 1 Jn 4:4
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110%er [6461]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 10:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Who determines right and wrong? With no morals absolutes, there is no right and wrong.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 23, 2022, 1:59 PM
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> Who determines right and wrong?
Who do. Not that hard.
> With no morals absolutes, there is no right and wrong.
Or, you know, they could just be relative.
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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You are correct. You know right from wrong.
Dec 22, 2022, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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But, without God, you have no rational basis for justifying what is right and wrong.
Hitler thought killing the Jews was right. For 200 years some Americans though slavery was right.
You think stealing is wrong. What if someone said, "No, stealing is right." What basis do you have to impose your opinion on him?
If there is no God, if all we are are a bunch of molecules thrown together by chance, then we are nothing more than moist robots who are only reacting to stimulus from other moist robots.
Right and wrong, good and evil, are nothing more than opinions - without an outside agent decreeing what is right and what it wrong.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: You are correct. You know right from wrong.
Dec 23, 2022, 1:58 PM
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> But, without God, you have no rational basis for justifying what is right and wrong.
This is unequivocally not true. The vast majority of people do not believe in your god and the vast majority of them have morals similar to yours.
There are people on this planet who have never even heard of the bible and they aren't running around in chaos.
Morality evolved just like everything else about us. It's pretty simple really. I don't like when someone harms me, and I'm not a psychopath, so I do my best not to harm others.
It's a bit scary sounding that Christians think they would have no morals if they didn't believe in god.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Except that's not the case at all. Religious people are definitely not morally superior at all.
They are rule breakers and selfish, just like everyone else.
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110%er [6461]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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No. That is just her convenient excuse.
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CU Guru [1483]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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I pray everyday on my way to work for you and others who don’t know the Lord.
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CU Guru [1917]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:14 PM
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Don't know about football but baseball is mentioned in the Bible.
1-Genesis-"in the big inning
2-Abraham was attempting a sacrifice
3-Mary went to the well with a pitcher
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110%er [6312]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:21 PM
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This one made me laugh quietly to myself
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All-TigerNet [10480]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 10:04 PM
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Do you have children?
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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4. Numbers 11:32
Dec 21, 2022, 9:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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No one gathered less than ten homers.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I balk at believing those are baseball references.***
Dec 22, 2022, 7:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Then you can strike out on your own...
Dec 22, 2022, 11:04 AM
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... and walk down the line until you hear a wild pitch from someone who manages to to convince you that your are safe in you belief.
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Trainer [35]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 24, 2022, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Old Oswald said it well: "Belief is not the result of an intellectual act, but the result of an act of my will whereby I deliberately commit myself. But will I commit, placing myself completely and absolutely on God, and be willing to act solely on what He says? If I will, I will find that I am grounded on reality as certain as God’s throne.
It is the matter of the will. Belief must come from the will to believe. There must be a surrender of the will, not a surrender to a persuasive or powerful argument. I must deliberately step out, placing my faith in God and in His truth. And I must place no confidence in my own works, but only in God. Trusting in my own mental understanding becomes a hindrance to complete trust in God. I must be willing to ignore and leave my feelings behind. I must will to believe. But this can never be accomplished without my forceful, determined effort to separate myself from my old ways of looking at things. I must surrender myself completely to God.
Everyone has been created with the ability to reach out beyond his own grasp. But it is God who draws me, and my relationship to Him in the first place is an inner, personal one, not an intellectual one. I come into the relationship through the miracle of God and through my own will to believe. Then I begin to get an intelligent appreciation and understanding of the wonder of the transformation in my life."
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CU Guru [1572]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 8:35 PM
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Hebrews 11:1
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
By the way, Leon, your nom de guerre, was an atheist and communist also. As well educated as you seem to be, I presume you know what the NKVD did to him in August 1940 in Mexico City.
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All-Conference [402]
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You know God exists
Dec 21, 2022, 9:04 PM
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But you suppress the truth. It’s not comfortable knowing you are accountable to your Creator and Judge. But there’s no excuse. No defense to account for your suppression of the truth. Jesus died for those He saved. He is the way, truth and life. You can only come through Him.
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All-In [27363]
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To end this discussion
Dec 21, 2022, 9:07 PM
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Let me confuse you with facts: There are four thousands recognized religions in the world!!! So, is yours the right one???
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 21, 2022, 9:14 PM
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I honestly cannot speak to what others believe. I can only tell you that my belief comes from the Holy Bible which I believe is God-inspired and God-breathed and that it is His inerrant word.
What I can also tell you is that if I'm wrong and there is no heaven or hell and I simply turn into dust at the end of my life then that is the worst thing that will happen to me.
However, what if I'm right and His word turns out to be true?
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CU Guru [1295]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 21, 2022, 9:37 PM
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Not a very convincing argument. What if the Muslims are right and you go to their hell?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 21, 2022, 9:46 PM
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I'll just have to take my chances that they aren't right...
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 9:30 AM
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If there really is a god up there that set it up like that he's a sick POS.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 12:21 PM
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Wow, and we were getting along so well
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 12:41 PM
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I mean think about it.
I'm not trying to be rude.
But the christian worldview says an all powerful god created a bunch of lesser beings knowing they would not follow his rules and that the majority of them would spend eternity being tortured.
On what planet does that make sense?
Not on earth.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 12:53 PM
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It wasn't crafted on earth. But that's beside the point. The real point is God sacrificed His one and only Son and had him pay the price for the sins of the world past, present, and future. He gave us a way to be saved from the torture you mention but it does require an acceptance of the sacrifice made and a belief in the one who paid the price for our sins.
Intellectually, it may not make sense to you but the clay doesn't get to tell the potter what to make of it.
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: To end this discussion ] |
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"One of the biggest things that separates Christianity from the "thousands of other religions" is that it is not based upon works. Salvation comes by faith and faith alone. All these others require you to do something to achieve "salvation", or "enlightenment", or "paradise", or whatever it may be to be successful at that religion. In following Christ, Christianity, it's not about what I do, but instead it's about what He did. Jesus paid my sin debt that I could never pay with His blood, His life, on the cross. We can now accept salvation through faith in Jesus and a true belief in His sacrifice for us. It's not a person's works that justifies them in the sight of God. It is their faith in Him and His Son."
Posted above, applies here too. No need for the anger and name calling. No one is forcing anything or being harsh in speech, just talking. God bless you and yours. May you find truth.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Legend [19567]
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There is only one with a God who loved you so much
Dec 21, 2022, 9:31 PM
[ in reply to To end this discussion ] |
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that He sent His Son to die for your sins so you could be with Him for eternity.
Love is mentioned just 24 times in the Koran. It's always Allah loves sacrifice. Allah loves obedience. Allah never loves you. God the Father does, and He best demonstrated that, that while we were all still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: There is only one with a God who loved you so much
Dec 22, 2022, 11:29 AM
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You do realize that both Islam and Christianity are Abrahamic religions and that "Allah" is just what they call "God".
They are literally referring to the same god. They both derived from the same place.
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Legend [19567]
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Anyone who has read both the Bible and the Koran
Dec 22, 2022, 9:32 PM
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can clearly see that while the word God may be used, they do not speak of the same God. Read the bible and of Abraham and Ishmael, where the Abrahamic lines descended from. Which was blessed and which was not? Allah never sent his son to die for our sins, only Jehovah God, the Father, did that. That's a pretty big difference. In fact, the Koran offers no road to forgiveness of sins, only the bible does
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Anyone who has read both the Bible and the Koran
Dec 23, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Neither version is real. They are both myths. But they 100% both derive from the same origin.
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All-Conference [402]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 6:23 AM
[ in reply to To end this discussion ] |
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So the existence of thousands, even millions, of counterfeits somehow makes the original and authentic invalid? Stop suppressing the truth.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 9:04 AM
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The original? Lol
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: To end this discussion
Dec 22, 2022, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: To end this discussion ] |
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it's not the original. It's not even one of the first religions.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: You know God exists
Dec 22, 2022, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to You know God exists ] |
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That's a huge claim with so little evidence. Can you provide even a shred of concrete evidence for this claim?
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Thanks for the post.
Dec 21, 2022, 9:08 PM
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I've never understood why people who don't believe in God get so upset with those who do.
If Dabo said he lived his life based his belief in the flying spaghetti monster, he wouldn't have received the vitriol he received today.
I suspect it is because those people who claim they don't believe in God have this inner conscience that tells them they are wrong.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Thanks for the post.
Dec 21, 2022, 9:16 PM
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The good news is, at least in this post, people have been very respectful and seem to be having an honest discussion on something that can be very divisive. And they are doing it without getting overly personal which is great.
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All-Pro [650]
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Re: Thanks for the post.
Dec 21, 2022, 9:19 PM
[ in reply to Thanks for the post. ] |
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Why did i ever think this was a football bored?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Thanks for the post.
Dec 21, 2022, 9:22 PM
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Because sometimes we want to be more than just "bored."
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Trainer [31]
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Re: Thanks for the post.
Dec 21, 2022, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to Thanks for the post. ] |
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They most definitely have that small inner voice that truly wonders.
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110%er [7157]
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Truth is offensive to those who don’t see it
Dec 21, 2022, 10:29 PM
[ in reply to Thanks for the post. ] |
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Jesus was brutally murdered bc of the exact same disdain and hatred. It’s to be expected until every knee has to bow.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Thanks for the post.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to Thanks for the post. ] |
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> I've never understood why people who don't believe in God get so upset with those who do
You must be joking. Religious people encroach on those who are not, far more often, than the other way around.
Maybe you just don't see it, but religious people say some pretty nasty stuff.
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All-American [579]
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Why the hate? My beliefs below simplified
Dec 22, 2022, 8:04 PM
[ in reply to Thanks for the post. ] |
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There is really only one enemy- satan.
He is the father of lies and the source of hate.
Gotta give the evil one some credit - he better than pretty much all other beings KNOWS who his true enemy is - our God.
Hence, why Christians and their beliefs will always be attacked by “the world” i.e. satan. Whereas most other belief systems are excluded from the hate and attacks. They are not satan’s enemy, so no need for him to try to destroy them.
Just some observations with contemplating.
Go Tigers! Go Dabo and go God!
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:15 PM
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Romans 1:20 my brother. Jesus still loves you.
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110%er [5381]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 21, 2022, 9:24 PM
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I just got home from a Christmas wine dinner and read your post. When my dad died , I too doubted God. Please continue to keep your mind open and pray. I will pray for you too.
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All-In [27363]
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There is a big difference
Dec 21, 2022, 9:32 PM
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Between atheists and agnostics so don’t confuse the two! I assure you that I am not an atheists.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 21, 2022, 9:42 PM
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I get it. As an agnostic, you don't believe or disbelieve. That's good because it means there is still an opportunity for you
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 21, 2022, 9:44 PM
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And the final word for the evening:
CLEMSON 79 GA TECH 66
Go Tigers!
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All-In [27363]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 21, 2022, 9:47 PM
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AMEN
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All-In [27363]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 21, 2022, 9:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: There is a big difference ] |
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I assure you that I live my life that way. All 80+ years of it. Just because I don’t go for a sermon every Sunday and sit in the same pews with those who proclaim to be “men of god” doesn’t mean there is no hope for me lol
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Legend [19567]
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Hope is in God
Dec 21, 2022, 10:07 PM
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at 80, you understand, that here, life is but a vapor. Here a moment, gone the next. As good a life as any of us try to live, we have all sinned and need those sins forgiven and cleansed. Jesus alone offers that. Hebrews 9:27 says, "Man is appointed to die once, and then the judgment."
At that judgment, only one thing matters. What have we done with Jesus? Have we come to Him a sinner needing that forgiveness, and received His grace? Or have we rejected Him?
By grace, through faith you are saved, and not of works. We cannot earn it, it is a free gift of God through faith alone
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Orange Blooded [4658]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 21, 2022, 9:47 PM
[ in reply to There is a big difference ] |
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I’m a Christian but I totally respect agnostics but not atheists. There is no way a person can Know there is no God.
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CU Guru [1681]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 21, 2022, 10:02 PM
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Atheism doesn't mean someone knows there isn't a god. It means they don't believe there is a god.
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110%er [7157]
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The humorous part i find about atheism itself is another
Dec 21, 2022, 10:41 PM
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Belief system. When you reduce it down they’re simply proclaiming what they believe in. Just like those that they fervently continue to lecture.
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Hall of Famer [22168]
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There are very few true atheists.
Dec 22, 2022, 11:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: There is a big difference ] |
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"I don't believe there is a God" is a consistent statement with "I'm open to the possibility there is a God."
If the second sentence describes you then you fit the definition of agnostic, "I don't know whether God exists or not. He may, but I don't believe He does. With evidence I would be willing to change my belief to, 'I don't know for certain but I believe God exists'."
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: There is a big difference ] |
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There is no way to know for sure Santa Claus doesn't exist either.
It seems like if your god was actually up there, he wouldn't make it up for debate and send billions of people to hell.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 9:29 AM
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He gave us free will and free choice. He chose us before we chose him. Many are called but few are chosen because we refuse to choose him back. Jesus had the power to save us but we have to accept what He did for us. As Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
The choice is yours...
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 9:34 AM
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If I would have seen him raise from the dead I'd believe it.
Why out of the billions and billions of people that lived did only show substantial proof to a handful?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 10:32 AM
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There were over 500 first-hand eyewitness accounts of what happened on the day of His crucifixion. He presented himself to many witnesses after his resurrection. Prophesy was fulfilled at a rate that was against nearly impossible odds.
And at some point, Faith has to come into play without necessarily having all of the knowledge laid out in front of you. I assume you have been a passenger on an airplane before. I doubt you interviewed the pilot before you took off to find out how many years he had flown, how many hours he had, how much sleep he got, and how much he drank the night before. In other words, you would put yourself and your loved ones on a flight and trust your safety in the hands of someone you don't know anything about and have never met and feel just fine that you are in good hands and are well taken care of.
This is the same kind of faith I place in Jesus Christ.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: There is a big difference ] |
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Wow. Listen to what you just said.
You don't respect people who don't believe in god because there is no way to know for sure.
By the same token, should I not respect christians because there is no way to prove there is a god?
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: There is a big difference ] |
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> I’m a Christian but I totally respect agnostics but not atheists. There is no way a person can Know there is no God.
Ok, but the opposite is also true until you can provide proof otherwise. It would be trivially easy to prove his existence if he existed and wanted to.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 1:01 PM
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You are correct. If you believe that God has not manifested Himself to you, please read Romans 1:19-20. God has manifested Himself to everybody.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 1:17 PM
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Ok, so a religious text claims something so we are just to believe it? I'm dead serious, why don't you take other religious texts just a serious? They have the same amount of evidence.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to There is a big difference ] |
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Agnostic atheism is a thing (that would be me).
If you do not believe in god(s), then you are de facto an atheist. You can also be agnostic on top of that.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 12:06 PM
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An agnostic doesn't take a side. An atheist does. If you blend the two, then how does that work in terms of belief, disbelief, or no belief?
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 12:31 PM
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> An agnostic doesn't take a side. An atheist does.
That's simply not correct. The lack of belief in something isn't "taking a side".
I don't believe in unicorns, because I don't see any evidence that I should. I'm not "taking a side", I just don't have a reason to believe they exist. If a unicorn appeared in my driveway, my lack of belief would vanish in an instant.
An agnostic is "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable"
The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's very easy to see that you can not currently believe in a higher power, but also think it's probably unprovable/unknowable.
Most atheist, like myself, don't go around identifying as atheist. Just as we don't identify as someone who doesn't believe in ghosts. If you don't golf, you don't call go around calling yourself a non-golfer do you?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 12:45 PM
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According to Webster:
Agnostic
1
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2
: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
political agnostics
This is what I meant when I said an agnostic does not take a side.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 12:58 PM
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You quoted #1 but you left out #2
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 1:18 PM
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That's fine, I'm just saying "Agnostic Atheism" is a thing. #2 is irrelevant to that.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 22, 2022, 2:37 PM
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Yes, I think I understand. You do not believe in God because you believe it is an unknowable principle or fact and His existence cannot be proved or disproved.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: There is a big difference
Dec 23, 2022, 2:01 PM
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Close. I don't believe because I have seen no reason to. The exact same reason I don't believe in ghosts, unicorns, or Santa. I just don't get flak for not believing in those.
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All-In [43989]
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Thanks for your honesty on this.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:02 AM
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I’m a Christian, and I also cringed at Dabo’s quote about NIL.
I love that he is outspoken about his faith. I believe he is genuine. I appreciate that he runs our program with Christian principles in mind.
But comments like this one about NIL make it seem like he’s trying too hard. I don’t think it will impress most Christians, nor do I think he will convert people from other belief systems with this comment. It was just weird, and it was odd that he chose to talk about it when and where he did.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Thanks for your honesty on this.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:08 AM
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Orange Blooded [2574]
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Re: Thanks for your honesty on this.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:41 AM
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I was raised in a Baptist church and felt guilted into going to church by my grandparents who were very religious. I’m not an atheist but I am a person who has to see it to believe it. There is no way anyone can really know that everything in the Bible is true. You weren’t there thousands of years ago. You must have Faith to believe it’s all true. I respect that but for me that is not entirely convincing. I do believe there is A God. I just feel there is no other way to explain the beautiful earth and the creation of people and animals. I just don’t know if the way it was explained in the Bible is entirely accurate.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Thanks for your honesty on this.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:57 AM
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Thanks for your honesty on this.
Dec 22, 2022, 8:48 AM
[ in reply to Thanks for your honesty on this. ] |
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I too had a cringe moment when I "heard" about it but once I actually watched the clip and Dabo's delivery of the message, I did not feel the same way. Dabo is a strong witness of his faith and sometimes he uses his platform to boldly witness to the masses. I'm sure he follows the great commission and wants to spread the Good News from time to time. I think most of us see his genuine faith come through, as we have seen on many occasions, and I should never have doubted that there might have been anything more to it than that.
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110%er [5683]
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: What if Brownell said it?
Dec 22, 2022, 4:36 PM
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Yes, if I heard about it without seeing it firsthand and watching how it all came about, I would feel exactly the same. For me, it wasn't about the messenger as much as it was about the message and the context in which it was spoken. In fact, I would have felt the same way if it was the President of the University or really anyone else who has that platform and how they were using it.
My concern all along was that it was being used in a way to promote an agenda (recruiting) rather than in an honest moment of reflection and communication of one's values. I tended to lean toward the former when I "heard" it but then changed to the "latter" when I actually watched it.
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All-In [25381]
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Perhaps, one of the most thought-provoking and
Dec 22, 2022, 4:17 AM
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interesting threads I've seen in a long long time.
My compliments and best wishes to all of our friends who have participated, for I have been deeply impressed with much of the wisdom.
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: Perhaps, one of the most thought-provoking and
Dec 22, 2022, 7:31 AM
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This thread is literally the most respectful I have EVER seen people be online in regards to Christianity and atheism.
Seriously, I applaud all of you! Even the ones who disagreed and argued a little didn't get all personal and whacky about it!
Just to throw my two cents in. I'm a Christian as well. I believe Christ walked the Earth as a man, lived a sinless life and died and rose again to save any and all who would believe. I do not believe in evolution as it is taught. I'm not saying some forms of evolution may not exist but I do not believe we somehow grew from absolutely nothing to a collection of atoms that "evolved" into man.
With all of that said I don't believe we should push or be hateful to anyone who doesn't believe. The only sure fire fact we ALL know and can agree on with zero chance of being wrong, is that we all live and share this same planet. Regardless of what does or doesn't happen after we die, we are all here now. We're in this together whether we like it or not. There is no reason to make things harder on anyone regardless of their beliefs or lack there of. Just my opinion. Y'all carry on now 
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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It's a shame the video clip Tnet posted was taken our of...
Dec 22, 2022, 7:49 AM
[ in reply to Perhaps, one of the most thought-provoking and ] |
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context.
It led to much confusion and unless arguing and I shame the owners for not taking it down and apologizing for permitting such a divisive and misleading video clip.
SHAME!
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: It's a shame the video clip Tnet posted was taken our of...
Dec 22, 2022, 8:43 AM
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I guess that is one way to look at it but I appreciate the diversity of thought and discussion on what can be divisive but can also be informative when honorable folks set personalities aside and just share their honest thoughts and respectfully listen to those who may not quite see it the same way.
It was a good discussion overall and I appreciate all of the inputs and sharing that took place.
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Orange Blooded [3182]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 9:45 AM
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First off let me start by saying I was raised in a nazarene church attending every Sunday Morning/Night, every Wednesday, till the day I left for the military at 17 and I believe all people have the right to practice whatever you believe without judgement/persecution.
I wholeheartedly believe there is a god/higher consciousness, however you loose me with the Bible/Christianity. There are over 4000 religions and many older than Christianity, so who am I to say they are ALL wrong and ALL Christian’s are right?
I’ve never felt comfortable with church, attending church, or anything to do with the Bible. All I remember growing up is the horrible anxiety I would get from attending church and nothing made sense to me. Didn’t add up!
Now, my wife is a devout Christian, but we respect each others beliefs and don’t really discuss it and our children were raised to do what makes you happy with no pressure from my wife or myself on how they should believe.
I feel people should be free to practice what makes them happy!
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 9:51 AM
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God gave us all free will and free choice to believe or not believe in whatever or whomever we want. The invitation was extended from the death and resurrection of His son but you have the right to decide whether to accept or reject it. No one else can do it for you. I walk in my faith and believe in God's Word. That is simply the choice I made and I can discuss what it has done for me in my life but I have no right to force it on anyone else. Only Jesus can save, not me...
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 1:39 PM
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"free" to "do as I say" or "hell". Oh, and btw, we'll make it super confusing by letting you be born into random other religions so that you grow up being told something else is the correct religion so you "choose" wrong through no fault of your own. Good luck!
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 2:29 PM
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To each his own... good luck to you as well.
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CU Guru [1257]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with Jesus Christ!
One day you will see how real and true Christianity is when must bow at the knee
to our Lord and Savior at Judgement day!
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 11:43 AM
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As a former Christian, I just don't believe you when you say you actually have a relationship. I used to say all this same stuff and really believed it. However, looking back, there was just people saying these things. He doesn't actually talk back to you, appear to you, or anything of the sort. I tried and tried and searched and searched. Nothing.
It's literally just a belief (albeit an extremely powerful one!). But we hear the same fervent nonsense from Muslims, Hindus, and Scientologist. They all have the exact same amount of evidence: Unsubstantiated texts.
Imagine a Muslim saying you will bend the knee one day. You would completely disregard them without a second thought. It's just as easy to dismiss your claims because you are simply pointing to an ancient text (which I doubt you know how was written and canonized) but are unable to provide literally any concrete evidence.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:14 PM
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Just speaking for me personally, I can understand your point because while I intellectually understood the rationale behind a relationship, I wasn't always feeling it. My perspective changed when I made a conscious decision to read the Holy Bible on a regular basis. My wife bought me a chronological, bible in a year version that lays out what you read every day so you can complete the bible, cover to cover, in one year. It works out to reading about 4-5 pages a day so it really isn't that daunting.
I'm going on 3 years now of reading the bible and studying in detail with a small group of men each week. This time spent has helped me develop my relationship with Christ and has made it more real to me because I simply understand things much better than I ever did before.
Nothing worthwhile in life comes easy and you do have to put some effort into it if you want to see the results, just like any other relationship you have with someone. All I can tell you is this is something that has worked for me and now I rely on it every day.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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Really? What is today's date? December 22, 2022. All of mankind keeps time based on an event that occurred some 2022 or so years ago (Jesus was actually born 3 or 4 BC). Mankind would not keep time based a non-event or a hoax.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 1:28 PM
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lol yes they would. It was set by a religious person. It's exactly the type of thing they would do.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 12:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: God/NIL ] |
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And then I'm gonna drop my drawers, tell him to kiss my crusty white butt and do a belly flop into the lake of fire...
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I'm not silly enough to be an athiest, but I'm also not
Dec 22, 2022, 10:55 AM
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a Christian so I share your outside-looking-in approval of Dabo's Christian-based "moral" handling of the program.
Thumbs up
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 11:42 AM
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As a Christian, I always recommend reading the Bible to non-believers, starting with Psalms 14 and 53. Always go to the source of ultimate truth.
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Orange Blooded [2132]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 3:51 PM
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I'll just say this to those that don't believe. As someone who loves Jesus and believes He died on that cross for my sins that if the day I die I find out I was wrong what have I lost? A life that I tried to fulfill by being a good human being and that when I did not meet those expectations I asked for forgiveness from my Heavenly Father and fellow man. Now I ask, what if you're wrong? Eternal damnation for eternity is what you're willing to risk? I wonder if ppl can grasp the concept of "eternity". Absolutely NO mercy forever and ever. That's WAY WAY more than I'm willing to risk. Also I ask only one thing else, how is this universe created from nothing. Science wants you to believe that nothing created something. There's an old adage which goes "scientist will give religious ppl 10 miracles if religious ppl will give scientists 1". That means scientists can't explain how nothing created something so scientists want you to give them that one miraculous miracle that all of a sudden something appeared and they'll give you that Jesus was a miracle worker. You see nothing can create something when that nothing was between the hands God Almighty. Don't go to your death hoping you were right.
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Orange Blooded [2147]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 4:15 PM
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You’re forgetting one possible scenario…
One of the other religions is right and you wind up in their version of hell.
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All-Pro [650]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 22, 2022, 6:31 PM
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Ya'll have convinced me. This ain't a football board at all. Sorry for interrupting.
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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You of the latest version of it?
Dec 22, 2022, 6:44 PM
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There IS a God and he thinks like I do.
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Head Coach [758]
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Re: God/NIL
Dec 23, 2022, 8:16 AM
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Dabo just loves to tweet them every now & then...Dabo has the courage of his conviction...how many now days will stand up for their?.seems like all the pervs do!
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All-In [32580]
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This thread is incredible. LOVE the Clemson Family.
Dec 23, 2022, 10:09 AM
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Merry Christmas All ! !
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110%er [6320]
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Not sure why people love to mock someone for their beliefs
Dec 24, 2022, 10:02 AM
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"we are so tolerant", yea until a Christian white man talks about his faith, and then atheistic lefty wack jobs want to burn him at the stake.
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110%er [6320]
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I also find that atheists are more religious than Christians
Dec 24, 2022, 10:07 AM
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As a Christian, I really do not care if you believe or not...
However, atheists are extremely dogmatic about their non-beliefs and want to erase all religions from Earth.
I can get along with agnostics, but atheists are so arrogant, that I do not want to talk to them. To have the arrogance to claim, that you know that there is nothing supernatural in this universe is more hubris than I can tolerate.
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