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110%er [7915]
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Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 8:52 AM
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Wondering why so many of our fans want our coaches to fall on their swords and/or throw our players under the bus to the media? How would it benefit our program or recruiting? Is is so important to your mental health that our coaches say things which will not benefit our program so you can say you were right? Is your self-esteem that low that you need this type of validation?
Perhaps you should trust your eyes but know that sometimes the things we cant see also matter then just let it go. We had a great season by any measure and a bright future so why not enjoy it instead of dwelling on something which will not benefit the team learn to be happy and celebrate our success. I remember a time from about 1992 to 2010 where we would have given our right eye to win 11 games and a conference championship. Now all we can do is whine about what could have been.
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Legend [18250]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 8:57 AM
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As much as they scream about how prideful the coaches are not to admit they were wrong, they are just as bad seeking the vindication that they were correct in their assessment. If coaching is as easy as TNET makes it sound we are set after Dabo retires because we have about 1000 certified coaches here ??
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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seeking vindication for the truth . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 9:36 AM
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is not "just as bad" as seeking vindication for smoke screens and distractions.
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Freshman [-79]
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No, it's bad when folks don't accept the truth and
Dec 9, 2022, 9:59 AM
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have to invent narratives to fill in the gaps.
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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That is, too bad when people do that . . . and it's too bad
Dec 9, 2022, 10:05 AM
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the coaching staff did that in their attempts to waive off the facts everyone was noticing. They had every right to hold a different assessment about who the starter should be - that's their job and their decision, and I'm not someone who things they owed us a "behind the scenes blow-by-blow," of every last detail. But at a minimum, they ought not be throwing up smoke screens to distract from or distort the truth on people's basic, accurate observations.
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Freshman [-79]
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It's weird when some people think their speculation is
Dec 9, 2022, 12:45 PM
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factual when in reality the facts are smacking them in the face.
Cade was developing and DJ was winning games.
Why is this such a complex issue for you? Why create fictional stories when the facts are clear?
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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Indeed that is weird - but also impertinent . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 2:48 PM
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. . . it's entirely unrelated to this situation.
You're wrong on multiple fronts - assessing a QB doesn't reduce to just "winning games." DJ certainly did contribute plenty, but an assessment of who the starter ought to be can't be reduced to "winning games." That's a one-dimensional analysis that ignores the fact that wins and losses aren't solely the function of QB play.
But even if we put that aside and assume for the sake of argument that the coaches made the right decision at every juncture at the QB spot this year . . . even then (and much more important than the point abouve) like I said earlier, the coaching staff has every prerogative to make decisions supporters, fans, the media, etc. disagree with. They do not have to agree with us all or answer to us of if they don't wish too. And if they do, they certainly don't have to give a blow by blow. But blowing smoke and distracting from the facts on the ground (not the upshot of those facts pertaining to who ought start) when asked . . . and essentially telling folks certain things aren't happening and or are irrelevant to the calculus . . . or just distracting from them . . . and implying they are ill-motivated for doing so (all of which they did) is problematic.
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MVP [544]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wondering about our fans ] |
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Its not vindication they want, its adoration. Most of the ones still screaming loud enough for all to hear want a big pat on the back and everyone to tell them congratulations on how right they were. If they were as faithful fans as they pretend they would have already known Dabo wasn't going to apologize for doing what he felt was right. He never has before. So they just keep going on about it, hoping that people who trust Dabo are going to pull a 180 eventually. The rest that are still complaining are just pot stirrers that get their jollies off being contrarians.
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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And yall complain about US beating the dead horse . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 9:34 AM
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Sheesh.
Very few want the coaches to fall on their swords, and almost no one wants them to "throw the players under the bus." What they want is for the evasiveness and lying to stop. Quit telling reporters and fans they aren't seeing what they're seeing (QB play was "no where near the reason why we lost") "Look over here, I won two nat'l championships!" "Quick, look over there, DJ doesn't play safety!" "Quick, look at this shiny distraction while I refuse to answer the substance of your question and thereby label it as untrue or impertinent."
Yeah, some want some huge dramatic mea culpa. I tell ya, that **would** be appropriate, but I would not say necessary. If the crap above and like material would cease, that would be just peachy.
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110%er [7915]
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Re: And yall complain about US beating the dead horse . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 9:53 AM
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Sheesh.
Very few want the coaches to fall on their swords, and almost no one wants them to "throw the players under the bus." What they want is for the evasiveness and lying to stop. Quit telling reporters and fans they aren't seeing what they're seeing (QB play was "no where near the reason why we lost") "Look over here, I won two nat'l championships!" "Quick, look over there, DJ doesn't play safety!" "Quick, look at this shiny distraction while I refuse to answer the substance of your question and thereby label it as untrue or impertinent."
Yeah, some want some huge dramatic mea culpa. I tell ya, that **would** be appropriate, but I would not say necessary. If the crap above and like material would cease, that would be just peachy.
So you state you dont want something then write that you want what you just stated you do not want. Why would a mea cuplpa be appropriate when it would only serve to hurt the program? How would admitting they (the coaches) screwed up by not playing Cade sooner because DJ sucked help the program?
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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No that's not what I stated . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 10:16 AM
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I did not say that I wanted what I didn't want, or that I demanded what I don't demand, or anything like that. What I said is that I do not think that kind of thing (a direct mea culpa), is *necessary,* but I think it would be preferable or desirable - a stand up thing to do, given how this was handled and how many times Dabo and Streeter made blanket dishonest implications about the intentions and observations of various critics.
I also don't share your belief that it would hurt the program if they acknowledged it. I think everyone outside the program who's been paying attention already knows, and seeing someone triple down on a mistake will drive away recruits and transfers more than someone who learned a lesson and evolved and changed as a result.
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110%er [7915]
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Re: No that's not what I stated . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 11:41 AM
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I did not say that I wanted what I didn't want, or that I demanded what I don't demand, or anything like that. What I said is that I do not think that kind of thing (a direct mea culpa), is *necessary,* but I think it would be preferable or desirable - a stand up thing to do, given how this was handled and how many times Dabo and Streeter made blanket dishonest implications about the intentions and observations of various critics.
I also don't share your belief that it would hurt the program if they acknowledged it. I think everyone outside the program who's been paying attention already knows, and seeing someone triple down on a mistake will drive away recruits and transfers more than someone who learned a lesson and evolved and changed as a result.
So you think its preferable and desirable? Why in terms of how would that help the program and how could it be done without someone being hit by the bus? The thing is there is more to the story than your version so I dont think it can be done without saying things harmful to our program. Perhaps you could simply accept the situation and move on?
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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No . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 2:55 PM
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Again, it would be a stand up thing to do b/c the staff treated some folks in a disrespectful and dishonest and evasive way in defending themselves. They had every right to disagree and make a different decision than the critics, but the manner of defending their decisions involved much too much distraction and false implications about motives and observations of said critics. So, given that behavior, a mea culpa would appropriate - just in simple moral and leadership terms. That's why I think it would be preferable. And my answer on why I don't think it would hurt the program is the same as before . . . I think most outsiders see it as a mistake already, and see the doubling down as stubbornness and maybe a bad football judgment. As such -**that** is what's gonna do the damage - not a mea culpa. A mea culpa could show that he wasn't insular and that he had learned from that mistake. A lack of one could be seen by some as an unwillingness to see the writing on the wall.
As for moving on, you could also accept the disagreement of everyone on the other side of this issue and move on. There's a lot of folks on here than want to gripe about beating a dead horse, but it seems they really have no problem with beating dead horses - they jsut don't like the one that some choose to beat. They have their own, though.
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Freshman [-79]
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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No - swing and a smack right into the teeth of the matter***
Dec 9, 2022, 10:05 AM
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s
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Freshman [-79]
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Do you smoke weed?
Dec 9, 2022, 12:48 PM
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The truth, AGAIN, is very simple.
Cade was developing and DJ was winning games.
You're not smacking anything, dude. Youre making up narratives to fit your misplaced feelings.
Steeeeriiike TWO!
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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See my post above, you're not paying attention . . .
Dec 9, 2022, 2:58 PM
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See my post above on this thread.
(A) Your QB analysis is simplistic, I disagree with it;
(B) The QB issue isn't what I think any mea culpa should be about unless he and Streeter earnestly comet to that conclusion themselves. I don't think Dabo owes and apology for not starting CK earlier if he still doesn't think that was the best thing. I'm talking about the way he handled it. As referenced earlier.
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110%er [9656]
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It’s probably not as many fans as it seems like…
Dec 9, 2022, 10:03 AM
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because we’ve discovered that some individual people have multiple screen names that they complain from.
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Associate AD [837]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 10:05 AM
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I’m very grateful for the success of this season there are many teams that would trade places with us in a skinny minute. I’m excited for the future and trust in the coaches to continue our winning ways on and off the field. I’m proud to be a Clemson Tiger!
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 10:20 AM
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It's called human nature. Go read any board out there and you will see all of the same stuff and some of it is much worse. They had to hire extra protection for the coach's family at OSU after they lost their 1 and only game to MI because of death threats from their fans.
Complaining about fan behavior is kind of silly because human nature, and the sinful nature within, is never going to change...
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Hall of Famer [22412]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 10:44 AM
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It is also the definition of entitlement but we know that word is not allowed when describing fans.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 10:46 AM
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We are entitled to our entitlement 
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Hall of Famer [22412]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 10:51 AM
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Is that like the folks that are only happy when they are unhappy? ?
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 12:50 PM
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I resemble that remark...
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Some of our fans are under the delusion....
Dec 9, 2022, 10:22 AM
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that being a fan, an alumni, a member of IPTAY and/or a season ticket holder entitles them to having the coaches explain their thought processes/decision making, and it doesn't. IT JUST DOESN'T !!!
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Freshman [-79]
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Hey man, I bought tickets and went to games!
Dec 9, 2022, 12:50 PM
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I should have Dabo's cell number, dammmit!! Dabo answers to me!
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Legend [17502]
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Cade's superior play to DJ is self-evident
Dec 9, 2022, 10:39 AM
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There is no genie to put back in a bottle. The train has left the station. Go Tigers! Beat Tennessee!
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110%er [6610]
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Because All Most Fans can do is cheer or complain
Dec 9, 2022, 10:51 AM
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Most people don't have the kind of money that can used as a blunt force instrument to affect anything. I'm sure the biggest boosters that have direct access to Dabo and his staff get the answers that most aren't privy to.
Even in our playoff/Nation Title runs fans were finding things to fuss about. As has been posted it's human nature.
When you care about something and invest your time and whatever money you can afford, sitting on the sideline and having no opinion just isn't good enough.
Clemson fans are a big family. We can say what ever we want about the team and coaches but no outsider had better say anything bad or we'll come after you.
The last few weeks fans have been pretty lathered up one way or another about missed opportunities with Cade/DJ. The fussing is starting to wind down and by the time the Orange Bowl gets here most of us will be fine and look forward to next year.
It's the circle of fan life.
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110%er [8514]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 11:12 AM
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Because they are not fans but just people who think everything in the world will always go right and do not understand life does not work that way.
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 9, 2022, 3:03 PM
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Let's think through that recruiting thing. Any QB we want real bad has probably been to camps with CK. Those guys all know how good he is, and by all accounts, he's really good. They watched him sit all year, and, like everybody else in America, they were scratching their heads about it. It sort of looks like Clemson is going to play the upperclassmen no matter what. So these 5 stars are looking at a situation where, barring injury, they will sit for a year and then either transfer or sit another year. Why wouldn't they just skip all that and go somewhere that plays true freshmen? I would. The perception of unfair evaluation can be pretty lethal when recruiting guys who have every intention of playing soon. So I hope we clean that up. It shouldn't require throwing anybody under the bus. It's weird that so many people consider fairness a threat to the culture.
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CU Guru [1935]
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Re: Wondering about our fans
Dec 11, 2022, 2:12 PM
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No need to wonder, many fans are morons of every school out there. My school has them, too, but proportionately there seems to be a lot if ignorance here lately.
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