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Hall of Famer [21614]
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So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob
Aug 16, 2017, 12:50 PM
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and also think that White Nationalists and the KKK are violent racists at the same time?
I have made it pretty clear I detest Trump. But he's right that both sides are to blame for the violence.
Both sides included awful people. Both sides included pre-planned violence. The loser who murdered that innocent girl was probably being attacked himself. It looks like his car was being bashed by bats before he rammed anyone. Obviously that is no excuse for his despicable actions and he should be convicted of murder but it's stupid to pretend like the same result would have happened without antifa paramilitary groups involved.
Antifa is substantially bigger than all the neo-nazi groups put together. And the mainstream media (minus Fox) sympathizes with them and covers up their obvious violence and threats to free speech.
White nationalists are not a threat nationally because both sides of the aisle condemn them and their numbers are still tiny. Antifa is being painted as merely "counter-protesters," even though anyone who really follows their work know they are essentially a rehash of the Roter Frontkampferbund from Weimar Germany. They are a political street gang who are violently attacking people they disagree with and declaring Free Speech should not exist.
If White nationalists were bigger in numbers and initiating attacks on legal protests nearly to the same extent, then I would be much more worried about them. They have no chance at altering society, except to hasten the material destruction of our past. Antifa, and their apologists are fast changing society as we speak, and doing so undemocratically.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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no you can not
Aug 16, 2017, 12:53 PM
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everything Trump said was correct, but anything but only criticizing all the white groups by name was only allowed.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I don't think everything he said was correct, but the things
Aug 16, 2017, 12:56 PM
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that everyone seems to be freaking out about are pretty reasonable.
Both sides were violent. That's a fact.
He explicitly denounced the white nationalists and the neo-nazis.
He was wrong in his characterization of how many "normal people" were involved in the Friday night white-nationalist march.
And he's right at the arbitrary nature of politically correct monument removal.
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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ADL isn't going to like this....***
Aug 16, 2017, 12:55 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Most of the people who hate the way I talk about Trump
Aug 16, 2017, 12:57 PM
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will like this, and most of the people who like the things I say about Trump will hate me for this.
I'll never make any friends here. 
It's the price one pays for being logical.
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Walking a tight rope... As I posted previously, it's about
Aug 16, 2017, 1:01 PM
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Divide and Distract... rumpT is along for the ride.
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Lot o points [155901]
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CU Medallion [56069]
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All-In [28802]
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Wonder how that will be received***
Aug 16, 2017, 1:06 PM
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All-In [26968]
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You can think that, and you can also say it.
Aug 16, 2017, 1:03 PM
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At any time, except when it could be construed you are defending the KKK. Otherwise, you're asking for trouble.
There should be a buffer of, like, a week after the KKK has been mentioned, and EXCORIATED COMPLETELY.
Then, you can bring up Antifa (being careful not to mention the KKK) and excoriate.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I'm more about just saying what I think is true.
Aug 16, 2017, 1:13 PM
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I'm not a politician. Timing things because other people are wound up and temporarily biased has nothing to do with the truth. That is merely manipulating your audience.
Antifa contributed to that girls death by unnecessarily initiating violence with obviously dangerous people. There is a pattern of the media ignoring antifa. That also contributes to future deaths in these violent times.
Screw a buffer. That has nothing to do with reality.
If people care more about a single dead person than they do about 100,000 other dead people, then they should be asking themselves why. How many died in Chicago this weekend? I guess their deaths are not as important? 1,000 gang related deaths are not as important to this country as 1 person killed by a crazy racists white dude.
10 violent protests that don't involve white nationalists are less worrisome than 1 that does.
People are suffering from group-think induced mental illness. Perspective is totally gone.
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All-In [26968]
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Hey, I don't make the rules.***
Aug 16, 2017, 1:14 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Please direct me to the one who does.***
Aug 16, 2017, 1:15 PM
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All-In [26968]
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We do.
Aug 16, 2017, 1:25 PM
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Some of us are like you, who like people to just say whatever they think is true. Most people, not like you, like to freak out about stuff.
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Lot o points [155901]
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All-In [26968]
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I do.
Aug 16, 2017, 1:23 PM
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Maybe you haven't noticed, but I have not disagreed with the content of what the President has said about the Charlottesville incident. I have made some criticism of the manner and timing, I think.
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Lot o points [155901]
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no, you're getting into fluff like "buffer zones" and
Aug 16, 2017, 1:25 PM
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other pap. If it's truth, it doesn't need a buffer zone, for those who value honesty.
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All-In [26968]
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I think your sarcasm meter may need a tweak.
Aug 16, 2017, 1:26 PM
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My first post in this thread was definitely tongue-in-cheek.
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Lot o points [155901]
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mea culpa.....it's hard to know which end is up anymore.
Aug 16, 2017, 1:27 PM
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My own meter has jumped the shark it appears.
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All-In [26968]
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It is a crazy time.***
Aug 16, 2017, 1:28 PM
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All-In [28802]
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I also think they escalated the violence in Charlottesville
Aug 16, 2017, 1:05 PM
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That doesn't make them responsible for the guy who rammed his car into counter-protesters, even if he did it out of frustration with whatever violence he saw. At any rate, I think we're seeing what can happen when people don't follow the law and engage in political violence to keep others from speaking. It certainly doesn't make already nutty, itching for violence nazis any more peaceful.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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as stated by the DNC email leaks, they are meant to provoke
Aug 16, 2017, 1:09 PM
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violence so it can be caught on camera. i doubt any of them thought they'd get run over tho, but expect more deaths in the yrs to come imo.
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All-In [28802]
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Meh. The conspiracy stuff is unneeded
Aug 16, 2017, 1:13 PM
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These people genuinely think they need to fight nazis, who shouldn't be allowed to preach their hate in public. They think they're protecting oppressed people. Even if they're also trying to provoke violence, that's not their fundamental mission and it's not necessary to say that it is in order to oppose them.
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Lot o points [155901]
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The real trick is getting people to engage in completely
Aug 16, 2017, 1:15 PM
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fascist behavior all in the name of battling fascism. It would be funny if so many didn't get the irony.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Re: Meh. The conspiracy stuff is unneeded
Aug 16, 2017, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to Meh. The conspiracy stuff is unneeded ] |
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No one's fundamental mission is violence, unless you are a mercenary/MMA fighter because you love it.
But violence is their salient answer to the problems they perceive. It's not something they hold in reserve for extreme situations. It's their plan... every time they deploy.
Bash the fash is real.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I'm not talking about this particular protest really
Aug 16, 2017, 1:54 PM
[ in reply to Meh. The conspiracy stuff is unneeded ] |
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But yes, there were there for violence as well or they wouldn't be dressed in their riot gear with clubs
But just look at the election. All the Trump rallys, the protestors were sent there to cause violence so it'd get caught on camera.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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and the dnc emails proved they do this***
Aug 16, 2017, 1:55 PM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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actually it might have been the video sting. i forget which
Aug 16, 2017, 1:56 PM
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now.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob
Aug 16, 2017, 1:10 PM
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Same opinion here but you said it much better than i. ??
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CU Medallion [60228]
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hence their name: "ANTI First Amendment"
Aug 16, 2017, 1:17 PM
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they are bigtime troublemakers, but for some reason I am unable to imagine, they are protected by the national media.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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CNN refers to them in euphemistic terms and
Aug 16, 2017, 1:27 PM
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ignores their extreme violence. Here is their profile of the group...
What is Antifa?
Antifa is short for anti-fascists. The term is used to define a broad group of people whose political beliefs lean toward the left -- often the far left -- but do not conform with the Democratic Party platform. The group doesn't have an official leader or headquarters, although groups in certain states hold regular meetings.
Antifa positions can be hard to define, but many members support oppressed populations and protest the amassing of wealth by corporations and elites. Some employ radical or militant tactics to get their message across. [Uh... that's the kindest possible way to put it. Imagine if they were so soft on the KKK!]
Scott Crow, a longtime Antifa organizer, says the "radical ideals" promoted by Antifas are starting to be adopted by liberals. "They would never have looked at (those ideals) before, because they saw us as the enemy as much as the right-wingers." The majority of Antifa members don't fall into a stereotype. Since the election of President Donald Trump, however, most new Antifa members are young voters.
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Heisman Winner [111574]
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Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob
Aug 16, 2017, 1:22 PM
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trump is right in the sense that they had the legal right to walk around with assault rifles while screaming horrible racist and antisemitic things in the state of Virginia, and that legally it was wrong for people to disrupt their protest. But how could you expect anyone to believe that they did not stir up and antagonize people to the point of conflict, and who would not want to grab a bat and run these guys out of their own towns had it happened where they lived? it was hardly a peaceful demonstration, and very much one intended to provoke people and grab headlines. They knew exactly what they were doing. There is just no way to defend that kind of behavior.
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Lot o points [155901]
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so if someone says something that offends you to your
Aug 16, 2017, 1:23 PM
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core, you'd be ok to grab a bat and have a go at them, and be legally protected? Because that's what you just said.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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welcome to why radical rioting leftists never get called on
Aug 16, 2017, 2:47 PM
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the left and the media let it go cause they always have some social view that justifies violence and rioting and beating people and shooting cops.
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Lot o points [155901]
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I think we know balm wouldn't really do that.
Aug 16, 2017, 3:06 PM
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He'd just give them a bunch of nasty thumbs downs, like he did my post. That'll show the Nazi scum.
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Heisman Winner [111574]
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Re: I think we know balm wouldn't really do that.
Aug 16, 2017, 3:40 PM
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I did not TD you(just gave you plus 1 before you call me a liar again), nor did I say people who grab bats should be legally protected. At this point you are being completely disingenuous..
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It's a logical fallacy.....
Aug 16, 2017, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob ] |
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to assume that by someone saying that Antifa has a part of the blame for violence, that is someone defending white nationalists.
I'm not defending white nationalists. Neither was Trump. In his judgement of the situation, which is usually chaotically stupid, White nationalists and Antifa were both violent and the bad result happened because of both of them.
Do you have any evidence that there was violence initiated by the Neo-Nazis or the White nationalists against anyone that was not already engaging in violence? That would be needed to reasonably blame it on one side.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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To your first question,
Aug 16, 2017, 1:46 PM
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you are allowed to think anything you want. I'm glad you posted, because that means you want to hear other thoughts as well. All of this is IMO, of course:
Nothing you said in your introduction is wrong, really. Although I disagree that the MSM "covers up" for Antifa. It's there, all over the place if you're paying attention. That said, Antifa is not the entirety of the left here in the US. I believe BLM is substantially larger here, better connected and led, with a clearer mission and messaging. Therefore, they (usually) get more press than Antifa.
To say that white nationalism is NOT a threat, however, demonstrates what I think is a failure to understand how racism becomes institutionalized. The passive acceptance of white nationalism, but more importantly the GROWTH of this community is alarming in that context. Why? Not because their current numbers are a real threat to elections or our democracy as a whole, but because they are empowered by actual policy shifts that THEY CLAIM support their stated goals, and vice-versa. Normalizing or passive acceptance of white nationalism WILL equate to passive acceptance of more "pro-white" policies in government, and those are policies that do not agree with American ideals.
For example, it's no coincidence that the largest white power rally in decades comes on the heels of xenophobic proposals to cut legal immigration in half, and bisect our continent with a 30-foot wall. They feel empowered by both, because they support their mission. Does that mean these policies are a direct product of white nationalism? No, but it does not mean that they are unrelated. They flow and grow, together. After the wall is built and the influx of immigration is slowed, what happens next to protect predominantly white institutions from natural demographic changes?
I do have one question for you about the Nazi killer from this weekend... where did you get the information that his car was being beaten prior to hitting the gas? In this video, it sure looks like he's going full speed before even approaching the crowd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35ubCt5L8N4
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All-In [31891]
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building a wall on the border and adjusting...
Aug 16, 2017, 2:00 PM
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immigration levels is not "xenophobic".
HTH
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Yeah I'm not sure how having a border and enforcing it
Aug 16, 2017, 2:03 PM
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is anything but that.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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There is an erroneous section of your post...
Aug 16, 2017, 2:00 PM
[ in reply to To your first question, ] |
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The passive acceptance of white nationalism, but more importantly the GROWTH of this community is alarming in that context. Why? Not because their current numbers are a real threat to elections or our democracy as a whole, but because they are empowered by actual policy shifts that THEY CLAIM support their stated goals, and vice-versa. Normalizing or passive acceptance of white nationalism WILL equate to passive acceptance of more "pro-white" policies in government, and those are policies that do not agree with American ideals.
1. There is no acceptance, passive or otherwise of white nationalists by anyone outside of their own group. Even Trump specifically and explicitly denounced them. Both sides of the aisle very loudly declared that there is not place for them in this country.
2. Their NATIONAL numbers are barely enough to swing a single congressional election. They are still tiny, even after their exponential growth.
3. How has anyone normalized them? Did you not see people all over the place falling over themselves to show the world just how much they hate the white nationalist cause?
4. What's a single law or policy or ordinance over the last 5 years that has been changed that affected any other group that was done so by neo-nazi or white nationalist influence. I ask this because BLM and Antifa mobs are causing some serious permanent changes.
5. Do you disagree that for every person who has stated any direct support for white nationalists there have been about 100 who express total opposition to them? Can you say the same for the reverse?
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Antifa stands for Anti Fascist
Aug 16, 2017, 3:52 PM
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I like their agenda.
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Lot o points [155901]
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Fascism in the protest of Fascism is still Fascism.***
Aug 16, 2017, 3:55 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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No.
Aug 16, 2017, 4:38 PM
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But I like their agenda far more than making whites the superior race.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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that seems like a false dichotomy.
Aug 16, 2017, 4:48 PM
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Its not one or the other
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I support puppies, but I don't support PETA mobs beating up
Aug 16, 2017, 5:29 PM
[ in reply to No. ] |
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people who own purchased dogs as opposed to rescues.
(Yes, I made that up, but it's a relevant analogy.)
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All-In [31891]
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Assume you support the Patriot Act then...
Aug 16, 2017, 4:48 PM
[ in reply to Antifa stands for Anti Fascist ] |
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I'm mean, you're a patriot, right?
But anyway, it's funny that you support a group because of their name.
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All-In [28802]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob
Aug 16, 2017, 5:20 PM
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Antifa stands for Anti Fascism.
They're stated goal is to 'fight' Nazism and Fascism.
(See WWII U.S. Soldier)
In my view, anyone who beats a Nazi about the face and shoulders is a patriot.
I appreciate the intellectual discourse around the issues.
But for context, let's remember what Nazi's actually do:
Auschwitz Consentration Camp - 1944, Mother and 4 children having been selected for gas chamber.
They were dead within 45 minutes of this photo being taken.
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Heisman Winner [111574]
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Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob
Aug 16, 2017, 5:25 PM
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depends on if they are wearing hoodies, then it is open season on them. 
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All-In [28802]
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So you support political violence?
Aug 16, 2017, 5:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob ] |
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Does it matter to you that these people have attacked opponents who aren't nazis, because they, in their infinite wisdom, have determined that they were secretly fascists?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Antifa hit Anne Coulter supporters in the head with poles.
Aug 16, 2017, 5:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob ] |
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I do not like Anne Coulter AT ALL, but hitting a woman in the head with a metal pole because she wants to hear a super-conservative speak at a public event is pretty disgusting.
So comparing them to WW2 vets is a bit of a stretch.
Nazi's do suck. No argument there. But communist paramilitary thugs suck too. I could post a bunch of stuff about Stalin but I assume you know the drill already.
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Lot o points [155901]
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Both my grandfathers fought in WWII.
Aug 16, 2017, 5:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: So am I allowed to think Antifa are a violent mob ] |
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You comparing them and their brave peers to these hysterical POS thugs is insulting enough to make me want to beat you about the head and face, but since I actually am anti-fascist, I would never do that.
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CU Guru [1482]
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Re: Both my grandfathers fought in WWII.
Aug 16, 2017, 6:22 PM
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A visit by Nazis should not be met with pacifism.
The fact that some on here think Nazis should be "heard out" or allowed to "express" themselves is absurd.
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Lot o points [155901]
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There's a reason that this concept was the cornerstone
Aug 16, 2017, 6:26 PM
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of the first amendment of the constitution.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Both my grandfathers fought in WWII.
Aug 16, 2017, 6:30 PM
[ in reply to Both my grandfathers fought in WWII. ] |
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Obed, my grandfather, my mothers daddy had part of his leg blown off in WWII so clearly you and i agree.
The only way i agree with fighting those FAKE Nazi's is in self defense. What they have to say isn't going to cost me jailtime, my life, my family, etc. Maybe I'm much older than many of my fellow liberals here who has no issue fighting etc.
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