|
Replies: 19
| visibility 1
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Natural "Immunity" may not be all it's cracked up to be
Aug 31, 2021, 12:08 PM
|
|
Lately there is a lot of information being presented around the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 and how it built up immunity for individuals over time - proven by seeing various markers in their bone marrow etc.
However, there is a body of evidence (Pre-Covid) which suggest this may not be all its cracked up to be. Specifically the world's first "pandemic" was the Russian Flu of 1889-1891 which killed millions of individuals, but still many survived with "immunity". So how are these linked?
The 1918 Spanish flu's largest mortality rate was individuals between the ages of 20-40 years - and specifically centers around 28-32 year olds. Why is this important then?
Those individuals were born between 1887-1891 - right when the Russian flu was circulating during their childhood. A paper linked below details a working theory around this, in that, these individuals had the Russian flu, but decades later when another flu version came around, their body misinterpreted the invader and caused their immune system to fight the wrong battle - allowing the Spanish flu, and other related illnesses, to overtake someone.
So why is this important today? Because citing the Spanish Flu as a reason why natural immunity works is not true. We have spoken extensively on mutations and viral replications so, yes in the immediate times, do you get protection? Yes. In 1 year? 5 years? 20 years? do you? Most likely not.
So again, I know this is a lot of text, but I hope it provides some additional context for individuals who are sitting on the fence about getting the vaccine. We have no idea how long and how well natural immunity will work. We know with vaccines we will need to evolve and continue to train and boost our systems to beat this deadly virus. And we have the ability to do so.
"We hypothesize that in 1918 many persons had second lifetime exposures to an immunodominant T-cell epitope that was conserved on an internal protein of the 1918 pandemic strain and a heterosubtypic other strain (e.g., 1889 pandemic strain). When persons were reexposed to the identical epitope in 1918, epitope-specific memory CD8+ T-cells produced excessive cytokines, chemokines, immune cell activation, and epithelial cell necrosis. The immunopathologic effects of the dysregulated T-cell response transiently increased susceptibility of infected hosts to respiratory bacterial strains against which they lacked protective antibodies."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3310443/
|
|
|
|
 |
All-In [46798]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
The NIH? You mean the department that Fauci's wife is over?
Aug 31, 2021, 12:09 PM
|
|
lulz nice try librul
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Re: The NIH? You mean the department that Fauci's wife is over?
Aug 31, 2021, 12:13 PM
|
|
? This article is from 2014. Not everything is politized.
Also I'm pretty sure Fauci isn't married to Francis Collins....
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46798]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
I'm going to need at least 3 youtube videos and 2 memes
Aug 31, 2021, 12:19 PM
|
|
to even think that this might be credible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-99]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 3740
Joined: 9/5/20
|
Your ignorance is astounding!
Sep 2, 2021, 6:38 PM
|
|
I can only hope you did not graduate from Clemson.
The format data comes in is meaningless. A doctor or a researcher or a scientist in an interview or a discussion with others on YouTube is no less relevant than them writing an article.
Many of the videos I post are of symposiums attended by experts that are invited. One such video was supposedly and put on by the Smithsonian and Johns Hopkins sponsored by the Bill Gates foundation. That is the kind of symposium that very few people get to attend. But now everyone can watch it on YouTube. Dr. Fauci was one of the speakers. This was in 2017. Dr. Fauci showed slides and evidence that proved vaccines are in effective against flu like viruses.
MIT has an excellent YouTube channel. You can get a free MIT education on numerous subjects on YouTube.
YouTube is the future of independent credible unbiased investigative journalism. Matt Taibbi, Alex Berenson, Glenn Greenwald, Sheryl Attkisson and other credible independent journalist, mostly left-leaning, are on YouTube! As are dozens of left-leaning and progressive academics and thought leaders.
I get the overwhelming amount of my news and information from left-leaning sources.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46798]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
There's this thing called Peer Reviewed Research
Sep 3, 2021, 8:04 AM
|
|
look it up
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22935]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16892
Joined: 12/2/00
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Re: The NIH? You mean the department that Fauci's wife is over?
Aug 31, 2021, 12:27 PM
|
|
Lolz...I did at first for sure but see it now 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2692]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3406
Joined: 7/3/07
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Re: natural infection plus vaccine gets my vote
Sep 2, 2021, 5:29 PM
|
|
I am not saying there isn't a benefit to natural immunity ... because there is.
What i am saying is that how long does that immunity last? how does it respond to mutations? what mutations does it respond to or not? What happens if another virus uses that immunity against you? Etc.
That's what I am asking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-99]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 3740
Joined: 9/5/20
|
Most of the studies now are showing natural immunity
Sep 2, 2021, 6:33 PM
|
|
Is superior to these vaccines. And they are showing the efficacy last longer. In fact they have been a lot of scientists talking about the fact that natural immunity could last for years because natural immunity does something to vaccines do not. They program the T cell immune response.
And tons of virologist, immunologist, and other doctors and scientists are saying if you are still producing antibodies from having Covid you do not need to get vaccinated. In fact that can be detrimental.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Re: Most of the studies now are showing natural immunity
Sep 2, 2021, 10:17 PM
|
|
And my question is how long does it last? What forms of the virus does it protect against?
Simple questions...yes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: Most of the studies now are showing natural immunity
Sep 3, 2021, 6:11 AM
|
|
Most likely a really long time and most likely protects against variants far better than the vaccine. That’s the best your questions can be answered at present. No one can answer your questions about the vaccine either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Re: Most of the studies now are showing natural immunity
Sep 3, 2021, 9:19 AM
|
|
Correct. No one can answer because no one knows.
And correct we are unsure on how long vaccines will last, but we do know this.
1) the virus will mutate as we have seen (delta, mu, sigma, etc)
2) hundreds of studies are being conducted testing how vaccines respond to changes and how to counter it
3) how many studies are being conducted to analyze natural immunity? And immunity from which strain? which type? timings etc?
4) do we know how natural immunity works against viruses that develop to counter it? ie mutate to use the immunity against you?
So i do hope natural immunity is stronger and lasts a really long time. I am hopeful it will. But like most non-vaxxers who suddenly delve into medical science for treatments if they do catch covid, why is there a continual wish to test nature? We have the ability to evolve and counter?
Why not give yourself the highest level of protection instead of tempting fate? You have no idea if natural immunity will help or hurt you. With vaccines, we do not beyond avoidance of doubt, we can eliminate death. And virtually eliminate serious hospitalization, ventilator and ICUs.
Why do you want to leave your family straddled with 100ks of thousands of debt and potential loss of you? I just don't understand that.
It's selfish. Please convince me how it is not. I am truly curious
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: Most of the studies now are showing natural immunity
Sep 3, 2021, 11:41 AM
|
|
I believe I am giving myself the highest level of protection. Many doctors back that up. History backs that up. Knowledge of how the body backs that up. Not selfish at all.
By the way, don’t kid yourself. The vaccine does not eliminate death and the vaccine carries risks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Re: Most of the studies now are showing natural immunity
Sep 3, 2021, 1:18 PM
|
|
So there it is...."I believe I am giving myself the highest level of protection." There is literally no other thought for others. It's just about you.
Also you aren't giving yourself the highest defense. Research shows Vaccine + Natural Immunity from Covid infection provides highest.
I just read all these stories about young men leaving widows and fatherless children needlessly. Just because they thought it wouldn't happen to them.
So it's cool. I really hope nothing happens to you. Or your family. Or anyone close to you. But it saddens me you literally care about no one else but yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: Most of the studies now are showing natural immunity
Sep 3, 2021, 1:42 PM
|
|
I’ve tried being nice but your ignorance is astounding. I’m talking specifically about ignorance in this matter. Not insulting your intelligence. I just can’t explain it to you any further. I’m not the least bit selfish and I absolutely do care about others. So, go on believing you can’t spread the virus to others and that you’re bomb proof. I really hope you figure this out someday. I also hope you stay safe. I mean that as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40872]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42929
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-99]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 3740
Joined: 9/5/20
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 50%
Posts: 1512
Joined: 8/3/16
|
Re: You have it completely wrong about what happened in 1918.
Sep 2, 2021, 10:20 PM
|
|
What do I have wrong? This article provides a narration on the study I provided.
The Spanish flu used the natural immunity gained in 1889 flu strain against it's hosts. It' tricked the body to defend the wrong thing and allowing other infections to overwhelm the victims.
This is exactly what happened.
So please explain how I am wrong without calling me ignorant or illiterate please. I am attempting to be rational and respectful. You so far are not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 19
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
">
