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Topic: My thoughts on OL.
Replies: 25   Last Post: Oct 20, 2021, 8:28 PM by: FORESTTIGER
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My thoughts on OL.

emoji_events [40]
Oct 19, 2021, 7:44 PM
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I made a post a few days ago saying that I thought 80% of the offensive problems could be traced back to the poor play of the OL. I'll try and explain here. (Sorry if this post is long. I'll try and shorten it as much as possible.)

First, I am biased. I am basing my opinion at least partially on past experience. I have seen a rotten OL. I've seen it for years and years at FSU. The OL problems were a common topic on the FSU message boards even back in the 90's during our 14 year run of ten wins and top 5 finishes. Historically, we had great OLs. Bobby loved the I formation and he would say his favorite play was the toss sweep.

Then, in 1993 South Carolina hired Brad Scott, who was not only the OC but also the OL coach. Bobby hired Jimmy Heggins. To say he was horrible is giving him the benefit of the doubt. Third and one was a passing down for us because our OL would consistently get stuffed. We had Charlie Ward at QB and we had converted to the spread offense, but we had to run it all the time. We commonly had 4 WRs on the field on third and 1.

Our OC became Mark Richt. He catches a lot of grief, but he was an absolute genius in this respect: He figured out how to run an explosive offense even with a horrid OL. He did it by running out of pass blocking schemes. I heard a coach say that in coaches meetings he would tell Heggins, "Protect my quarterback. I'll figure out how to run the ball." The coach told me that in a normal practice with position groups having 15 five minute periods, at least 12 were spent on pass protection.

Well, I see a similarity with the Clemson OL. It was apparent last year. ETN was continually getting hit behind the LOS, but he was good enough to break tackles and gain a few yards. And, TL was good enough to overcome a lot of the OL problems.

Mark Richt figured out how to tweak the offense regardless of who the QB was. He won 10 games with Charlie Ward being mobile and a run threat. He won 10 games with Danny Kannell, a typical drop back passer. He won 10 games with Thad Busby, who was not even a late round draft pick in the NFL. And, he won 10 games (and a national championship) with Chris Weinke. It was great to have an AA QB, but it wasn't necessary. He won 10 games regardless.

Tony Elliott has not figured out how to run an offense with an OL that isn't capable of putting a hat on a hat and winning the battle. (Brad Scott was old school philosophy. "OL blocking is simple. It is moving an opponent from point A to point B against his will.")

I'm no expert. I have no idea how Richt did it. But, he did. Tony Elliott has not figured out how to run an explosive offense with this OL. It doesn't take a first round draft pick playing QB. It takes very good athletes (QB and WR and RB- which Clemson has) and a coach who can figure out how to get an offensive line to at least give the QB time to throw the ball.

And, it also takes a QB coach who can develop a QB. Every QB that Mark Richt coached (he was QB coach and OC), from Charley Ward to Chris Weinke, got better every single year, no exception.

I think DJ is plenty good enough to be the QB of an explosive offense. I think the WR group and the RB group is plenty good enough. The tough part is figuring out how to develop that offense with a rotten OL. Or, get a coach who can recruit and develop a quality OL.

The solution to Clemson's offensive woes are:
1. Hire an OL coach who can coach the OL into to quality unit.
OR
2. Figure out how to develop an offense that can operate behind a putrid OL.
AND
3. Make sure the QB coach is making his QBs better every single year.

That's my perception, for what it's worth.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[2]
Oct 19, 2021, 7:48 PM
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That was spot on!

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[1]
Oct 20, 2021, 3:56 PM
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Plus, it's a fact that Tony did have two NFL type QB's covering for his inability to figure out the blocking, so he never did, and now is shows that if he had worked more on blocking schemes, his offense wouldn't look as #### poor as it does now without a DW4, and a TL16 covering for for his inabilities as an offensive coach, PERIOD. TE is in way over his head without a NFL type QB that could cover up just how bad of a OC that he truly is. The big plays that DW4, and Trevor was able to pull off, was bc both of those guys could/would change what TE had called down to the field, and both of those guys would change the play at the line of scrimmage!!!!

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[2]
Oct 19, 2021, 7:54 PM
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You're right. TE is clueless. When The Chad moved on, Dabo said not to worry because TE and JS had learned his system. They probably did, but when the system needs to be changed based on personnel changes just like you mentioned, TE is clueless. He only knows what he copied. Dabo fixed the defense after the WVa debacle, and surely he'll fix the offense in the off season.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.


Oct 19, 2021, 7:56 PM
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Very good assessment of what to do

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Coot!

[1]
Oct 19, 2021, 8:01 PM
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lol, j/k, I know you been here for years.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[4]
Oct 19, 2021, 8:18 PM
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Everything you said makes sense. However, with even mediocre QB play, this team might be undefeated. Even with all the other issues on offense, We would be number one in the country right now if DJ had Kelly Bryant level play. Charlie Whitehurst or Woody Danzlet level would win a Natty as QB of this team. Cole Stoudt level gets this team to the playoffs.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.


Oct 19, 2021, 8:20 PM
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Great insight but geez, we’re 0 for 3.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[1]
Oct 19, 2021, 8:29 PM
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bretfsu You are correct!

I don't give a Rats Hair who is calling the play; if it's not executed up front well enough the play suffers.

QB on his back or running for his life or not being able to set his feet is all OL. RB getting hit before he can hit the hole is OL; not the dang play call.

In some ways; it would be curious to see a new OC - but the same OL play! If folks think a different set of plays works better; yet blocked poorly they are just wrong and I would have to question their football I.Q.

It all starts up front, period on offense!

Having all that talent at WR and RB but having a bad OL is like: "having a Lamborghini body and wheels with a Yugo engine"! It looks sparkly and shiny; but it under-performs on the road!

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Re: My thoughts on OL.


Oct 20, 2021, 3:52 AM
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I agree but I think a better QB coach than Streeter compensates enough to have us undefeated right now. I thought TL regressed a little last year and I blame that on BS.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[1]
Oct 19, 2021, 9:36 PM
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Bret, I always respect your posts. Enjoyed you posting that Sunday talk link too. Good stuff. Is it weekly?

Secondly, I posted a couple weeks ago that we missed Jeff's abilities but missed his dad being around perhaps more. I believed it two years ago and I still believe that today. A ton of football knowledge left when they moved to Florida.

Eloquently laid out (Thank you - love x and o discussions) imo, offensive lines need an identity as well. You can have all 5* but if they're not a unit on the same page, may as well be pick up ball.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[1]
Oct 19, 2021, 9:38 PM
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Bret, I always respect your posts. Enjoyed you posting that Sunday talk link too. Good stuff. Is it weekly?

Secondly, I posted a couple weeks ago that we missed Jeff's abilities but missed his dad being around perhaps more. I believed it two years ago and I still believe that today. A ton of football knowledge left when they moved to Florida.

Eloquently laid out (Thank you - love x and o discussions) imo, offensive lines need an identity as well. You can have all 5* but if they're not a unit on the same page, may as well be pick up ball.




I agree 100%

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Re: My thoughts on OL.


Oct 19, 2021, 9:47 PM
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Or...you could stop wasting your time pretending to be an analyst...and pull for a program that knows how to get it done.

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He does. He just hasn’t changed his name and icon to match it.***


Oct 19, 2021, 10:21 PM
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Great post again Bret. You have some great insight, spot on.***

[1]
Oct 19, 2021, 11:43 PM
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I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created, and with them the animals,
The birds and the creatures that move along the ground, for I regret that I have made them.


Re: Great post again Bret. You have some great insight, spot on.***


Oct 20, 2021, 6:02 AM
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Oline coach should havel been gone 2 or 3 years ago we need a proven Oline coach and a new playbook .This will be a very very interesting off season.

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Re: Great post again Bret. You have some great insight, spot on.***

[2]
Oct 20, 2021, 8:08 AM
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He should have been gone the day after the 2017 semi-final game we lost to Alabama. That O-line performance was as bad as the defense in the Orange Bowl against West Virginia. It should have been a watershed moment, but I understand why it wasn't coming off the success we had. I briefly questioned that thought after the 2018 National Championship but that was just an anomaly.

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So...what I gleaned from this...

[1]
Oct 20, 2021, 8:35 AM
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is that Clemson needs to hire Mark Richt as an offensive consultant.

Of course, Coach Richt's son, Jon, began his college playing career at Clemson before transferring to Mars Hill.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: So...what I gleaned from this...

[2]
Oct 20, 2021, 10:07 AM
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Richt would be a great hire except

1. His Parkinson's disease has slowed him down. His comment is, "I can do anything I used to do, only slower. Before I walk I have to think about walking. Before I talk, I have to think about what I'm going to say and then say it."

2. He has shown absolutely no interest, even before being diagnosed with Parkinson's, of returning to coaching.

My point was, and still is, when you have a horrible OL you better have a great OC who can figure out how to overcome that.

My secondary point was that a QB coach should be a guy who can make his QBs better every year. When Mark Richt left, until Jimbo got here, none of our QBs improved. Chris Rix as as good or even better as a freshman than he was as a senior. Same with every other QB during that time frame.

Richt never got the credit, especially by FSU fans, for the great job he did. (When he left for Georgia, Jeff Bowden was promoted to OC. Just compare the results with Jeff as OC to Mark's record.)

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Re: So...what I gleaned from this...


Oct 20, 2021, 10:22 AM
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Excellent point. What QB have we had in the last 8 years that didn't stay level, or even regressed during that time... And I'm not just talking about our starters. That said, most have transferred and we really don't have the sample size except this year, puma. Why wasn't he ready to take the reigns? Miss? Development? Idk.

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Re: So...what I gleaned from this...


Oct 20, 2021, 7:09 PM
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bretfsu

Exactly Right!

If your OL isn't great: you better have an OC who can overcome that. If your OL isn't great you had better have a QB coach and QB who can make plays outside the pocket!

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Re: So...what I gleaned from this...


Oct 20, 2021, 10:07 AM
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Obviously, none of know, unless you're inside Dabo's circle. I trust Dabo knows exactly what's going on. Imo, we've been addressing the OL issues much like we have with safety position group. We have recruited, on paper, our best OL in Dabo's tenure.

Why are they not performing or not developing to their paper rank? I know, it's a tough eval with most misses from HS to college of any position group... Would you agree? Good example, Mayes, stud coming in, praised by Dabo but why not starting? I don't pretend to know, but I do know we've super productive with 2 and 3* jimmy and joes on the oline the last decade. Why? Perhaps 2 generational qbs? Maybe, but the only thing that's changed is we lost Jeff and Brad. This is the first year we've cycled through (WR) of any influence from js... This is also the first year since 13? That we haven't had a kid under center that could NOT run the offense by themselves.

Is it TE? From the outside, it appears so. I'll wait until the end of year to see our progression but we should know for sure the first game next season. Sure am interested in reading what you and other knowledgeable posters versed in x and o's think. Tiger o, quozzel, etc etc that posted excellent discussions back in January and February.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.


Oct 20, 2021, 4:00 PM
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But we're running the ball fine. I'm a bit confused about what you're suggesting.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.


Oct 20, 2021, 4:10 PM
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I don't think I.L. is the problem. I think the scheme makes them look bad.

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Re: My thoughts on OL.

[1]
Oct 20, 2021, 6:40 PM
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Bret .... that was excellent and absolutely the best explanation of any that I have heard. Our troubles running the ball with the best runner we have ever had just illustrates your point even more clearly. And actually our O-line did protect Trevor pretty well last year, so in a way we mimicked what Richt was doing at FSU.

I suggest that you copyright your comment so that Walt Deptula doesn't copy it and claim that it was his work!

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Re: My thoughts on OL.


Oct 20, 2021, 8:28 PM
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I have always thought that really good coaches would find a way to win. Any coach with a roster of superstars should win and win big. apparently I was very wrong. Clemson has a loaded roster and struggle against ordinary opponents.
I’m anxious to see what happens if they accidentally figure out DJs problem. They say he doesn’t have one! They are wrong!

Go Tigers. . A well coached and talented Panther team awaits you in steel city

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