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Hall of Famer [22168]
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Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 7:26 PM
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Just curious as to what y'all think? Not an easy question. Too many variables, some of which we probably don't even recognize.
The two big ones are:
1. Brand. Which teams put more eyeballs on the TV when they play?
2. TV footprint. Which teams expand the conference TV footprint thus putting more eyeball on TV set.
I'd rank them in this order:
Tier 1: Clemson and FSU
Tier 2: UNC, UVA, VT, GT
Tier 3: NCSU, Miami, Duke, Pitt
Tier 4: BC, Cuse, Wake, Louisville
I'm sure if I had access to more info I could be persuaded to move some of those folks around. What I really think will eventually matter is who ESPN and FOX think are the top 8. Once that is decided, then the B1G and SEC can fight over which teams go to which conference.
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Varsity [236]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 7:39 PM
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I’d move UNC up and Georgia Tech down.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 7:49 PM
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From an SEC fan’s prospective: UNC and either UVa or Duke would be a good fit
SEC fans would welcome UNC, but are split on UVa.
Why UNC: A true Blueblood basketball program and highly regarded academically. We only have Kentucky right now, so UNC could help us a lot in basketball.
Why UVa: A “state” school with similar academics
Why Duke: Same, and it would ease the transition for UNC.
Why not FSU: Already an overlap in TV markets with UF and AU. Plus FSU spurned an earlier SEC offer.
Why not Clemson: Clemson is a good football program, but we don’t need any more good football programs. Good basketball programs round out the conference and expand TV revenue deals.
ND is attractive just due to the eyeballs they command on TV with their football program. But, they’re really a much better fit for the B1G than the SEC.
Any other ACC schools? No
Just my thoughts.
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CU Guru [1187]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 8:08 PM
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Disagree. Respectively. Football drives everything period. Basketball is a good secondary sport to have on the wings but football drives the conversation. Clemson and FSU are better than half the existing SEC teams right out of the gate before they ever set foot on field. Regardless of FSU spurning a previous offer or not the SEC would not deny them if they were serious about expansion. Same with Clemson. They are simply the best two programs overall in the ACC. I really don't see the SEC taking Duke, UVA, or UNC over an interested Clemson or FSU. Just my take feel free to disagree. Also I will go out on a limb and say that Clemson at least will be in the SEC sooner rather than later.
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110%er [6858]
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100% this. Expansion has nothing to do with any sport other than football
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Feb 9, 2023, 9:16 PM
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So to suggest they would take unc and duke for their basketball prowess is simply absurd. You expand to take football powers, period.
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110%er [5265]
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Oculus Spirit [76698]
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SEC and basketball will always be like
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Feb 9, 2023, 10:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences? ] |
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SCAR trying to be relevant in any male sports and anyone that takes your perspective seriously is a complete fool like the one I am responding to.
Message was edited by: BloodbeOrange®
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Legend [16058]
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Your thoughts as an SEC fan aren’t really needed…
Feb 11, 2023, 6:39 PM
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Hey Boss, I never asked that you respect my opinion. I’m giving you an SEC fan’s perspective of YOUR conference.
Our conference has a certain culture. Your’s appears to be a “Clemson only culture”. They are not the same.
We are like a brotherhood in our conference. We annually hate each other yet, pull for conference members (especially during OOC games/playoff/bowl time)
You think I like UGA? When we fight like h*** against them in-conference? Yet, I will totally pull for them to beat TCU because they represent our conference.
Even though I’m not a Clemson fan, I’ve been respectful while on this board. You may not “respect” my opinion and that is your right. You guys have a good football history that deserves everyone’s respect.
However, the fact is that the SEC is going to 16 teams and Clemson is not in it. The fact is that you are now on the outside looking in. I hope that you enjoy your view!
P.s. I guess that my Tiger rating goes down after this.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Re: Your thoughts as an SEC fan aren’t really needed…
Feb 12, 2023, 1:01 AM
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You’re gonna hate this, because I can tell ego rules your worldview. Wether Clemson joins your glorious conference or not, your team will always be worm fodder. You take football too seriously apparently, and it doesn’t really matter.
Message was edited by: E36Tiger®
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Your thoughts as an SEC fan aren’t really needed…
Feb 13, 2023, 8:47 PM
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A couple of pointers when replying:
1) Use Spellcheck, it works!
2) Why in the world are you posting at 1:01 am on Tigernet?
Get some sleep man. Then, rise early and get some exercise. It does wonders.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Legend [16058]
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And that is why coots will always be Beta males...
Feb 14, 2023, 12:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Your thoughts as an SEC fan aren’t really needed… ] |
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Hoping for the Alpha to carry them along and beg for them to "appreciate" you. Good luck with that. Its certainly worked well for SCAR football in the past.
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CU Guru [1355]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 13, 2023, 9:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences? ] |
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Mainly cooterville scared crapless. I honestly hope Clemson ends up on Big 10. Want a conference where tons of athletes don’t just mark X when asked to spell name!
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All-Conference [434]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 8:09 PM
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SEC
Virginia and North Car market for sure.
From a football standpoint I would say NCST and VTech
FSU and Clemson just to really lockout the South for football.
Big 234. Florida, SC, Virginia and NC mkt.
FSU, Clemson for football and UVA and UNC for all sports and "academics"
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Orange Blooded [3371]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 8:25 PM
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Why would anyone think UNC would add academics to the SEC. Have we so quickly forgotten the African Studies scandle?
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110%er [6858]
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Academics is becoming an after thought, virtually irrelevant
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Feb 9, 2023, 9:18 PM
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I think we are quickly approaching these teams being connected with the school in name and location only.
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Orange Blooded [3286]
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Asst Coach [706]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 12, 2023, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences? ] |
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Yeah, every school lets their players skate through. I wouldn't tug on that thread with our PAS department and PRTM. UNC is an excellent school as a whole, and would be #2 in the SEC behind Vandy.
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Letterman [270]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 8:16 PM
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The wild card in all of this is state politics. Can UNC move on and leave the Wolfpack high-and-dry? Same applies with VT/UVA.
You will recall that this is what got VT in (and kept Syracuse out) during the first Big East poach. And there was some flack between UCLA, Cal, and the UC Board of Governors over the latest Big 10 grab.
Just sayin…
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 9:14 PM
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Everyone,
Good points by all. Who really knows how this whole thing will end up.
Honestly, SEC fans really don’t want to expand beyond 14. Many think that Texas/OU is too much while others even think TAMU/Mizzou was a bridge too far as well. (Most seem ok with SCAR / Arky)
Do we expand further? I would propose that it happens closer to the ACC GOR expiration in the 2030’s.
So, Texas/OU to the SEC in 2024/25 and then nothing much until 2 years before the GOR expiration. 2035? or so?
By then, all bets are off! Let me know what you think.
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CU Guru [1187]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 9, 2023, 9:31 PM
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That's fair, but honestly I don't see a world that stands still till 2035. I have always said there is not a "contract" solid enough to hold up progress/money. Never has.. never will. If the SEC or any conference is put in a situation where they have to add teams or die, any contract will be more of a nuisance rather than a road block. Lawyers make money everyday negotiating out of and into contracts.
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Orange Blooded [3049]
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You are speaking for the entire SEC?
Feb 14, 2023, 7:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences? ] |
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You seem so confident about it.
This is a message board and everyone has opinions. It's very "rich" that you are so confident with your opinion-like it is fact. You "know" so much about the SEC and how the entire conference thinks. Like you are the SEC spokesman.
Give us a break... please.
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Letterman [255]
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Just bring back the old ACC minus Wake and Duke
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Feb 9, 2023, 10:21 PM
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8 schools (Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, NC State, UVA and VT) is all you need to dissolve the GOR and form a new conference. Those 8 schools would generate enough TV dollars to beat the current deal. Then if you want to get completely crazy you take the 8 most valuable PAC schools left (Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Cal, Utah, Colorado, Arizona & AZ State) and form a west division.
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Orange Blooded [3950]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 10, 2023, 6:52 AM
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The the expansions by the SEC and B1G is about money and power. Also Football is the driving factor. So these two conferences are going to grab up the programs and make them the most money and more a more powerful football conference.
There’s only a handful of programs left that will help these conferences in this area.
Clemson, Oregon, FSU, Washington, and maybe VT and UNC because they do draw a lot of eyeballs out the state of UNC. That’s it.
UVA doesn’t give any power to football and doesn’t draw near enough eyeballs for TV revenue. Even in that market. No one cares about education or the other sports.
Also these conferences definitely don’t care what the fans think.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 11, 2023, 6:12 PM
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I agree
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Orange Blooded [3049]
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You posted something slightly different earlier...
Feb 14, 2023, 7:55 AM
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"Why UNC: A true Blueblood basketball program and highly regarded academically. We only have Kentucky right now, so UNC could help us a lot in basketball.
Why UVa: A “state” school with similar academics
Why Duke: Same, and it would ease the transition for UNC."
You agree that football is driving conference expansion, but the SEC is going to prioritize recruiting a basketball school on the next expansion?
Is it football or basketball that's driving expansion?
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Orange Blooded [4491]
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Speaking as one from BXII: Duke, UNC, FSU, Clemson
Feb 10, 2023, 7:17 AM
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And just jumble the rest up.
Duke's brand is unequivocally superior in terms of reach and audience. UNC is close behind.
FSU can thank Bowden and a ton of TV coverage for their brand awareness.
Clemson's a late-comer to the big reach game.
College brands are just so hyper-regional.
TBH, growing up I thought Clemson was in Alabama and Auburn was in Georgia although I was very aware of Auburn because of Bo.
So much was tied to those coveted prime time TV games back then when you watched what the three networks wanted you to watch.
Had NO idea there was a USC in South Carolina. None whatsoever. Until Holtz.
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Orange Blooded [4316]
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Hall of Famer [22259]
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It really doesn't matter... I think CU & FSU are going to be
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Feb 10, 2023, 7:24 AM
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left with no chairs when the music stops. The SEC is done for a while, they hit it out of the park snagging Texas and Okla, and have 16 teams. The BIG is still at 14, but I don't see them coming down south if they expand. Regardless, those will be your two super conferences going forward. Bigger conference payouts, bigger TV contracts, etc. The ACC money gap will be huge in a few years...
It's hard to believe how badly the ACC misread the tea leaves and the changing landscape of college football. Totally asleep at the wheel. Give the devil his due, the SEC has always been two steps ahead of all the other conferences... they're playing 3-D chess and everybody else is playing Connect 4. Being stuck in the ACC until 2036 is absolutely ridiculous. Hate to say it, but even Maryland outmaneuvered us...
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Orange Blooded [4491]
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This ^^^^
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Feb 10, 2023, 7:30 AM
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"... they're playing 3-D chess and everybody else is playing Connect 4. "
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 10, 2023, 7:31 AM
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You know college sports are screwed if the decision makers are Fox and ESPN.
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All-Conference [410]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 10, 2023, 7:32 AM
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Clemson , FSU, UNC ( no members from NC)
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Legend [17751]
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Football-wise, FSU is looking pretty good
Feb 10, 2023, 7:40 AM
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Got some good genetics. Wasn’t looking too good for a while. But found herself what appears to be the right man and getting that old mojo from back in the day when she was in those Whitesnake videos on MTV. Ever growing populace of Florida helps too.
Then I guess Clemson because of recent success and ….. not sure who else football wise
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All-TigerNet [13035]
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I'm just hoping we can maintain the level of attractiveness
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Feb 10, 2023, 8:35 AM
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we do have. We honestly don't bring a ton outside of football as our basketball program is mediocre and our fan/alumni base is comparatively small to other football powers. Clemson is pretty attractive while the football team is making 6 straight CFPs and winning national titles. I think it's substantially less attractive losing 3 games a season.
It just kind of feels like these last few years may have been our window to parlay our football success into a move away from the dying the ACC, but it wasn't feasible due to the outrageous GOR. And whenever we finally get into a position to escape the GOR we may no longer be a prominent football power.
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Orange Blooded [4435]
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I DEFINITELY share these same concerns!***
Feb 10, 2023, 8:48 AM
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Orange Blooded [4435]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
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Feb 10, 2023, 8:50 AM
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Clemson & FSU are the two giants left in the ACC with Miami and UNC also pretty attractive.
Really really need Washington & Oregon to be invited to the Big 10. I think the SEC would react to that and invite us in.
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Legend [16058]
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Disagree. I would put them like this...
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Feb 10, 2023, 4:12 PM
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Tier 1: Clemson and FSU
Tier 2: UNC, UVA, VT, Miami
Tier 3: NCSU, GT, Duke, Louisville
Tier 4: BC, Cuse, Wake, Pitt
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Disagree. I would put them like this...
Feb 13, 2023, 11:58 PM
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Legend [16058]
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I hate Miami but they did win a NC in 2001.
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Feb 14, 2023, 12:21 AM
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Still a long time ago.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I hate Miami but they did win a NC in 2001.
Feb 14, 2023, 12:33 AM
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CU Guru [1998]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 11, 2023, 9:30 AM
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The level of attractiveness of any school depends on the conference you're discussing. I assume the OP's view is centered around the SEC or maybe B1G's interest.
Now that the B1G has taken USC & UCLA, they are at 16 teams, just like the SEC. Any of the ACC schools could potentially be attractive to the B1G if they want to expand into an area that's recruiting-fertile and truly expand their footprint. The ACC also offers a lot of programs that are good from an academic standpoint. Tech is not on many people's radar in these discussions. But we do offer the B1G a foothold in Atlanta, which would be a big deal, IMO, coupled with great academics & AAU membership.
The SEC doesn't gain anything by going after FSU, Miami, Clemson, Louisville, or Tech. They already have those states. So, those programs don't expand their pie. I think the SEC would likely target schools in NC & Virginia.
Personally, I'd like the ACC to hang in there, and try to renegotiate our TV deal. If something doesn't happen, then I think the conference will fall apart beginning around 2031 or so, as schools make moves when they're within 4 to 5 years of the end of the GOR.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 11, 2023, 6:16 PM
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Reasonable opinion based on what has occurred.
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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Sir, you nailed it
Feb 11, 2023, 7:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences? ] |
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SEC: USCe, Florida, UGA and Kentucky don't want Clemson, FSU, Miami, Tech or Louisville to be added. Quite frankly, I think UF covers Florida better than FSU and Miami put together; obviously UGA trumps Tech and Kentucky beats UL. Even though we are a better football school than USCe, the SEC doesn't need us.
UNC and UVA are obvious territorial targets, but their football traditions suffer. Clemson could be a target if they value our national brand and winning tradition. Nobody else in the ACC is worth a dime to the SEC. (ND is obviously not going to the SEC).
B1G: They should have interest in UNC, Tech and Clemson. Possibly FSU, but I dunno. My guess is they have bigger interest in Oregon and UW (not to mention ND).
We should all keep in mind a big issue affecting conference expansion: New teams must bring value to the TV package and not dilute the per school annual revenue.
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Orange Blooded [2890]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 12, 2023, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences? ] |
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It seems to be an accepted troupe that having SCar “locks up” TV viewership in the state. I must be an outlier as I have not interest whatsoever in watching anything concerning them but will make life altering choices to watch Clemson.
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Hall of Famer [22447]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 12, 2023, 11:23 AM
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I agree completely with tier 1. I would propose a couple of changes to your tiers 2 and 3.
Your OP:
Tier 2: UNC, UVA, VT, GT
Tier 3: NCSU, Miami, Duke, Pitt
Mine:
Tier 2: NCST, Miami, VT, Pitt
Tier 3: UNC, UVA, Duke, GT
Reasoning - I think NCST AND Miami fill your #1 criteria better than UNC and UVA, and NCST and VT cover the same geographic area for your #2 criteria. Pitt expands the TV footprint and brings more eyeballs to the TV than GT. I almost put GT in tier 4 because they just don’t do much for either category. Thought about moving BC up but that would be strictly geographic because the football brand is terrible. All of these comments are based on football only.
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110%er [6461]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 12, 2023, 8:35 PM
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FSU, Clemson, NCSU, Miami and no other team.
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Legend [16213]
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Re: Most attractive ACC teams to other conferences?
Feb 13, 2023, 10:12 PM
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Clemson
UNC
FSU
NC State
Miami
Pitt
Louisville
Va Tech
Ga Tech
Duke
UVA
Syracuse
BC
Wake
Brand, sport, media, tomorrow. That's where I see us.
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