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All-In [27134]
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Going to regret asking this, but...2000 Mules.
May 9, 2022, 10:17 AM
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Couple of questions for the folks who believe the election was stolen, that I'm (genuinely) curious about your perspective:
1) The election margin was razor tight. How was any pre-arranged "election theft" plan organized where the results were that on the nose? It would seem to me that given the cost/risk, there could be no margin for error, and any plan would have to be significant, which would lead to very lopsided results in favor of Biden. 2) Why did the GOP pick up so many house seats across the nation if the plan was to tank Trump? It strikes me as odd that such a plan would allow for the number of down-ballot races the GOP won, while still giving the White House to Biden.
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Heisman Winner [119709]
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Re: Going to regret asking this, but...2000 Mules.
May 9, 2022, 10:24 AM
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2) not everyone who supports local/state GOP candidates supports Trump
But keep up with your absurd biases...
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All-In [27134]
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Absurd biases?
May 9, 2022, 10:28 AM
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Against what?
And we're not talking about organic ballots here. These would be "manufactured" ballots as a part of an election theft ring organized by Leftist extremists, which to my point, is curious that a plot large enough to tip the White House to Biden would leave room for so many down ballot victories for the GOP.
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All-TigerNet [11637]
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I don't think it was stolen...
May 9, 2022, 10:30 AM
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But GA is currently investigating ballot harvesting. It was pretty widely known that Abrams and her crew participated in ballot harvesting but really hard to prove. The new (racist) voting law will make ballot harvesting much harder.
In GA, you have very clustered areas of dark blue. They often don't vote. Under the old law, anyone could request a mail-in ballot for someone else, and multiple times as well. Pre-fill out the ballot, get the person to 'vote,' carry it to a drop box and you can gather enough votes to flip a close state without impacting any House seats.
The GBI is looking at almost 300 cell phones who repeatedly pinged at a dropbox prior to the election day and then not again.
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All-In [27134]
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I will say that if the election was stolen,
May 9, 2022, 10:33 AM
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ballot harvesting would be the most likely avenue. But this is a pretty big departure from the narrative up to now that suggested the machines were broken or that vote counters were corrupt. Moving the goalposts like this doesn't help with credibility, but I'll be glad to give the evidence consideration if verified from a more authoritative source if/when that happens.
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All-TigerNet [11637]
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Can't speak to other states...
May 9, 2022, 10:47 AM
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But with GA, it's not moving the goal posts. It was widely talked about within the state that Abrams had groups making sure people submitted mail-in ballots. The old voting law was a joke for integrity.
Under the old law: - There were no ID requirements to request an absentee ballot. - Unsolicited absentee ballots could be sent out and they could be sent multiple times. The voter did not need to request.
So Abrams group could request absentee ballots for dark blue areas, and have them sent multiple times. You're not allowed to fill these out for others, but that's almost impossible to prove.
Then the groups would canvas the area and turn in the mail ins to the boxes.
The 1 person, 1 vote still applied. But had they not had 'help' they vote would not have made it in.
Found one article from WSB regarding a harvesting investigation:
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/ga-elections-officials-subpoenaing-texas-group-claiming-they-have-evidence-ballot-harvesting/QNFBWOYS7VB6JCHLTYH3JNYYKI/
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All-In [27134]
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I meant more from the line the Trump team was carrying in
May 9, 2022, 10:49 AM
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their lawsuits. Locally, the watchdogs may have been much smarter about election vulnerabilities.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Re: Going to regret asking this, but...2000 Mules.
May 9, 2022, 10:32 AM
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Everyone knew what the close states were ahead of time. Pretty easy to target.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one. No need to cheat in say Cali. Although I'm sure cheating was rampant there too, cause Cali and they dgaf
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All-In [27134]
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Okay, that's one theory.
May 9, 2022, 10:34 AM
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But wouldn't you still see major lopsided results in more traditional battleground states like Ohio, NC, Florida, etc.?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Why?
May 9, 2022, 10:42 AM
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I don't think trump was gonna route anyone.
I always said when trump won, no way he makes it 2 terms. The hate by the media was too strong
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All-In [27134]
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So you think that the organization intentionally kept it
May 9, 2022, 10:43 AM
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tight?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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no, they did as much as they could
May 9, 2022, 11:31 AM
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obviously it was well organized. And Biden won the national vote by a ton so there's that.
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All-In [27134]
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Good deal. Thanks for walking me through it.***
May 9, 2022, 11:34 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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video proof is video proof
May 9, 2022, 11:36 AM
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and i aint one to say anything should be overturned, but this is important to stop this for future elections.
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All-In [27134]
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If this gets verified and it all leads to the conclusion the
May 9, 2022, 11:43 AM
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election was tainted to the point the outcome was altered, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.
But, and I'm not saying this is you (just some others on this board), don't seem to recognize that the extreme skepticism with the "stolen election" narrative is largely the doing of the Trump campaign's farcical (literally farcical) storyline up to this point. The ballot harvesting theory though is the strongest yet, since it is a real problem with plenty of examples (on both sides) of it. Much more believable than the Trump campaign's original narrative of hacked machines and Venezuelan subs that got plenty of Trump attorneys sued.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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Re: Why?
May 9, 2022, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to Why? ] |
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He got ten million more votes than the first time. He won by a lot.
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All-In [27134]
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This is a terrible talking point, btw.
May 9, 2022, 11:03 AM
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If voter turnout was up, which it was, it stands to reason so would his vote totals, and so would vote totals for the challenger.
Nobody with any grasp on politics would argue Trump was a stronger candidate in 2020 than in 2016 to suggest his vote totals would be higher at a wildly disproportionate ratio than Biden's.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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If it's massively lopsided, it's bad smelling fish
May 9, 2022, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to Okay, that's one theory. ] |
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If the closely contested states become blow-outs in one direction or the other, it has the immediate appearance of cheating and gets a helluva lot more scrutiny.
A couple swing states, margins in the ~10k votes? Might could just fly thru and pass the initial sniff test.
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All-In [27134]
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Re: If it's massively lopsided, it's bad smelling fish
May 9, 2022, 12:44 PM
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My question is how do you get it within the margins? Ballot harvesting would have to happen before the election. There is no way to predict the turnout either. This all rests on misconduct within the vote counting which is probably one of the more often debunked conspiracies.
I suppose it is all possible, but getting it within an acceptable margin seems like a moonshot even for a sophisticated operation.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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That's where the people much smarter than I am come in
May 9, 2022, 1:35 PM
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Have to assume there's some really smart statistics guys that are pouring over the pre-election polling and are just working the number.
"If the polling is accurate and the statistics hold, I estimate we need X number of votes..."
Then someone goes and makes it happen.
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All-In [27134]
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In my experience, even the smart people get the pre-election
May 9, 2022, 1:45 PM
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polling way wrong, especially for turnout. Again, not saying it isn't possible, but this is one hellvua "IF" to overcome, which would defy much of electoral history.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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The mules weren’t enough.
May 9, 2022, 10:56 AM
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Biden was still losing, even with the illegal ballot harvesting/stuffing. That’s why the five key locations in swing states “stopped counting” and kicked out all the observers in the middle of the night. They scanned pre-filled Biden ballots until they had enough for the win.
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All-In [27134]
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Stick with the mules.
May 9, 2022, 11:03 AM
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Your other point has been soundly debunked.
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Heisman Winner [137937]
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Isn't it fascinating how independent auditors in all 5 of
May 9, 2022, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to The mules weren’t enough. ] |
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those states couldn't find evidence of the thing you're 100% certain happened? It's just the damnedest thing.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I'll go by what the audit says. BUT
May 9, 2022, 11:34 AM
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you gotta admit, that was sketchy as hell.
First of all, I've never seen a vote stop the first night. 2nd you kick everyone out and then start counting votes with like 4 people? with no one to oversee this?
So ya, that should never happen ever again. Its just leads to bad speculation and conspiracy theories. If this happened in favor of Trump, it would be ww3
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CU Medallion [73569]
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oh and forgot, they lied about pipes bursting
May 9, 2022, 11:47 AM
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what the hell? all that was sketchy as hell.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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They investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing
May 9, 2022, 4:54 PM
[ in reply to Isn't it fascinating how independent auditors in all 5 of ] |
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What a shocker.
Also the only real audit (not recount, audit) that I am aware of is Arizona, and the key county there refused to cooperate.
Not to mention all the evidence was tampered with or destroyed
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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Re: They investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing
May 9, 2022, 6:13 PM
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Tell us about what was found in the Arizona audit. I'll wait.
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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Re: Going to regret asking this, but...2000 Mules.
May 9, 2022, 11:08 AM
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Apparently, these morons are still clinging to the "stolen" election narrative despite a lack of evidence. This is despite the fact that they lost every court battle, the Arizona audit (a huge embarrassment for them), and they are now relying on cell phone data as "proof" that the election was rigged. My sides are hurting from laughing at how truly dumb and desperate these people are.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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What's the point of Republicans voting in rigged elections?
May 9, 2022, 11:40 AM
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Hopefully, Trump gets back on Twitter soon so that he can hammer the stolen election theme home.
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All-In [27134]
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Enough Republicans asked that in the GA Senate runoff to
May 9, 2022, 11:44 AM
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give Dems both seats. Not a great strategy, but don't tell MAGA that Trump lost the Senate because of his insane post-election behavior.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Trump purposely screwed the pooch in the Georgia Senate
May 9, 2022, 11:47 AM
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races to show his power over the party.
It won't be the last time he does that.
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All-In [27134]
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He basically endorsed Abrams over Kemp.
May 9, 2022, 11:55 AM
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Honestly, the strongest Trump theory is that he was a Dem plant designed to undermine the GOP. All of his actions would back up that theory.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Here's why GA Repubs were willing to lose 2 senate seats
May 9, 2022, 7:30 PM
[ in reply to Enough Republicans asked that in the GA Senate runoff to ] |
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The 'traditional' Republicans hate Trump more than the Democrats.
Long answer illustrated by one example ... it will make sense if you can wade through it.
Trump's rise to power without pandering to the funders of the traditional Republicans introduced a huge risk factor to the 'dark money' that enrich the 'traditional' Repubs & Dems. Their (justifiable) fear was that Trump might decide to push for legislation that would shut down these avenues for self-enrichment.
"Trump risk": Passage of a law that would prevent organizations which receive Gov't funding (i.e., colleges, universities, media outlets [including NPR]) from being able to donate to PACS or political campaigns. The 'ban' on such Gov't funded organzations from donating to political campaigns would be for 365 days after their most recent receipt of Gov't funds.
Why this would be important? Example: UGA is the biggest lobbyist in the State of Georgia; UGA's single biggest funder is the State of Georgia. UGA gets money from the State of Georgia, and then re-sends that money to their favored political candidates. This is racketeering ... a Federal crime ... but legal by virtue of crooked laws.
What about 'suppression of free speech'? The organization that wants to preserve its free speech can do so, but not if they 'bribe' the Gov't via contributions to political parties, candidates, or PACs. They can either take the Gov't money -or- speak up as they please ... but they do not get both.
Why does this matter to politicians?: You know this, but here goes anyways: The politicians use money send to their political campaigns to employ parents, offspring, siblings, nephews & nieces, etc. etc. They then get their family relations to donate to the politician's non-profit organization. The politician then pays his wife a fat salary for being a high ranking officer of the non-profit organization.
Punchline: Guys like Trump who are not part of the traditional politicians' fundraising racket pose a great risk of exposing it and then dismantling it. That's why the 'traditional Republicans' would rather lose the Senate than to win the Senate; losing the Senate would give the 'traditional Republicans' cover for when reform laws that Trump would propose would then have no chance of passing a Democrat-controlled Senate. The 'traditional Repubs and Dems' racketeering scheme remains intact.
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All-In [42166]
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Moon landing was faked. 9/11 was an inside job.
May 9, 2022, 1:41 PM
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Birds aren't real. Biden is played by another actor. The 2020 election was stolen.
All are the conspiracy theories of nutjobs. Not only should they not be entertained with discussion, they should be summarily dismissed and mocked.
Sorry if that sounds flippant, but you're having to argue well-known facts with people who are so enamored with Trump, they can't accept that he simply lost because he was a ###### president.
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All-In [27134]
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I think the ballot harvesting angle actually holds water as
May 9, 2022, 1:49 PM
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a method of execution, as opposed to rigging election machines or some great cabal with the election counts, but as I said in the OP and further in the thread, there is a mountain of contradictions to overcome as well as a basic vetting of the evidence. So this is not so much as a wait and see, as a come find me when you have the proven receipts.
Still the most obvious answer is that Trump was an awful candidate in a high turnout election, which both explains why he still lost to Biden even with higher vote totals, while the rest of the GOP had a really good night for down ballot races.
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Lot o points [155907]
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I think your question #2, when flipped, spurs a lot of the
May 9, 2022, 7:36 PM
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controversy.
If, the GOP picked up so many seats, why didn't the Presidential race turn out positively as well?
Not saying that's my line of thought, but it's A line of thought amongst the "stolen election" crowd. That anomaly can be positioned either way.
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All-In [27134]
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Yeah. I can see how that might puzzle them, though it's hard
May 9, 2022, 9:59 PM
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for me to understand how it's not obvious to them since I'm one of the GOP voters who didn't vote for Trump, but voted for many down-ballot Republicans.
AND HONESTLY I'M STARTING TO QUESTION A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE'S COMMITMENT TO CLEMSON SINCE IT SEEMS THEY DIDN'T VOTE FOR THE CLEMSON PROFESSOR RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. NOT TRUE FANS.
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