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Orange Blooded [2669]
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This is actually infuriating.
May 11, 2021, 9:46 AM
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There are only 2 options here. He is lying and has a hidden agenda, or he is so senile and lost that he has no clue what he’s talking about.
This labor issue is insane. The company my friend works for in the meat packing industry has over 1000 open positions that they can’t fill. The co-packers that he works with are all at 50% capacity meaning they are getting about half of what the we need to satisfy demand.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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110%er [8889]
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Re: This is actually infuriating.
May 11, 2021, 9:52 AM
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a couple folks on here get excited when they read meat packing so be careful
and yes, *Biden is full of beans
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All-In [34486]
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Re: This is actually infuriating.
May 11, 2021, 9:55 AM
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a couple folks on here get excited when they read meat packing so be careful
Thou doth protest too much.
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110%er [9646]
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Uh oh. Ya been Shake-speared!***
May 11, 2021, 10:01 AM
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Hall of Famer [24687]
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Nice...***
May 11, 2021, 9:51 PM
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110%er [9646]
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I gotta agree. Please at least admit that it MIGHT be PART
May 11, 2021, 9:52 AM
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of the problem.
No link (too lazy) - but I read on ABC a statement by an economist who was blaming business owners for offering wages that were too low in a tight labor market. His statement completely ignored the REASON for the tight labor market.
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All-In [46800]
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That nobody wants to go to work to a ###### job
May 11, 2021, 10:03 AM
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when they can sit at home and make the same amount of money?
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110%er [9646]
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Yes - that's reason for the tight labor market that he
May 11, 2021, 10:05 AM
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ignored.
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All-In [46800]
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Well one of two things are going to happen
May 11, 2021, 10:12 AM
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Businesses will see this as temporary (which they do) and work half/quarter staff until the UE+400 ends (which it is)
Or
Businesses will see this as permanent and have to raise wages (some are) or provide better benefits (some are, not Obed®)
Will be interesting to see which route our labor market takes.
But it does say a lot about our the poverty wages many companies are paying when a $400 bump in benefits produces a tight labor market.
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110%er [9646]
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You're right - it'll be interesting how it plays out. An
May 11, 2021, 12:33 PM
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extra $1600 a month (tax free) is a significant difference.
I've always believed if wages were increased - then employers would hire fewer people which equals higher unemployment. If a business person (I'm sorry - business carbon-based lifeform) chooses to keep full staff at higher wages - then prices go up.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [46800]
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Ah.. you're a boomer. That makes a lot of sense***
May 11, 2021, 1:17 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Ah.. you're a boomer. That makes a lot of sense***
May 11, 2021, 1:31 PM
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Ah.. you're a boomer. That makes a lot of sense***
May 11, 2021, 2:30 PM
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I know young people in there 20s that are making bank because they have high skill levels.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Ah.. you're a boomer. That makes a lot of sense***
May 11, 2021, 2:39 PM
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All-In [46800]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I'm sure you got that job by your strong handshake abilities***
May 11, 2021, 2:41 PM
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Hall of Famer [24687]
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And maybe if Bezos paid like that...***
May 11, 2021, 9:54 PM
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CU Medallion [56005]
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The labor market has been tight for years.
May 11, 2021, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to I gotta agree. Please at least admit that it MIGHT be PART ] |
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In 2019 the UE rate was 3.5%. It's fair to acknowledge that UE and stimulus might be additional contributing factors right now, but their impact is fleeting and it would be a tight labor market either way.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: The labor market has been tight for years.
May 11, 2021, 10:37 AM
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In 2019 the UE rate was 3.5%. It's fair to acknowledge that UE and stimulus might be additional contributing factors right now, but their impact is fleeting and it would be a tight labor market either way.
Umm no. It’s directly related to stimulus and unemployment benefits. That is what current unemployed workers are saying. Industry leaders are saying that they have never seen labor shortages as bad as this.
Also workers just show up whenever they want. They can just no call no show one day knowing that the labor market is so short, companies have no choice but to keep them employed.
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All-In [31855]
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That would only be true if the jobs report and number....
May 11, 2021, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to The labor market has been tight for years. ] |
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of total ppl on UE were much different.
The total number of people on UE coupled with the number of available jobs clearly points to the COVID relief as the problem.
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Oculus Spirit [97669]
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Dollars = Labor
May 11, 2021, 10:14 AM
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I'm a total believer in Marx on this issue. Typical intellectual though. States this irrefutable fact, then goes on to use it to justify communism. BUT, he's absolutely right about this VERY fundamental fact. A dollar is a completely arbitrary unit used to quantify LABOR. Period. Very simple concept. And totally not taught or believed by many. But at the end of the day, it's the reality. A dollar is worth no more than the labor someone is willing to expend to earn it.
The government totally screwed up two ways, offering the added unemployment benefits, and tossing out checks (printing money). Up until this pandemic, money was ALWAYS filtered through the labor market. It's the real reason behind "trickle down". Debt is not a problem as long as it is exchanged for labor. Take out a $300,000 mortgage, build a house. You pay the labor to build it, then repay the debt with your labor. That is a neutral relationship between the debt dollar and labor in that equation. It is the reason almost 100% of our government debt, and stimulus in the past, has ALWAYS been geared towards companies and businesses, to "trickle down". It has to. Give a company money (debt) and they will produce a product, and in doing that the dollar is exchanged for labor, still.
BUT, put money directly into people's pocketbooks and wallets, and you have then bypassed the labor part of the equation. That money has not been exchanged for labor, and as such, it devalues all the other dollars out there that are exchanged for labor. That's where you get inflation. It's not hard to quantify our inflation either, as a result of these two debt expenses of the government. Take our GDP, then find the percentage of it that has been printed and distributed in the form of added unemployment benefits, and direct checks. THAT is probably pretty close to "real" inflation. Whatever is debt that goes straight from Washington into a wallet or pocketbook, or bank account, without being exchanged for labor, that sum, as a percentage of GDP, is a pretty good approximation of excess inflation, or at least excess inflation above what the economy dictates through the normal evolution of wages and salaries.
And the fact that Trump was on board for the direct payments, and actually wanted more than dems, is a big reason he lost the election IMO. A lot of this happened under Trump. And it has continued with Biden. Free money is votes. I had no option last election for a sound fiscal future. Haven't for years really.
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All-In [46800]
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I'm with you on most of this, but you're missing a key part
May 11, 2021, 10:22 AM
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that COVID has directly affected.
You stop at putting money in people's hands (by-passing labor as you put it) but you stop there.
In a normal economy by-passing labor (your words) and putting money in people's hands is an extra step in the money momentum process that provides immediate results. People get money such as stimulus checks, people go out and spend that money on products that required labor to produce increasing demand for products which in-turn will eventually increase supply (because supply always lags demand). The economy starts humming again.
Trickle down on the other hand takes time. Hence the "trickle" part. People laid off and an economy that is stalled doesn't want a solution that takes time.
All of that works in a normal, open economy.
The problem we are running into now is the money momentum was in potential energy. People got all of this stimulus money and had very few places to spend it. Now that economies are opening back up, markets are back operational, supply is lagging but demand (thanks to the checks) is through the roof.
Supply always lags demand. Supply is always inelastic in the short term. Demand is much more elastic.
To summarize, UE+400 should end here very very soon. People are vacinnated etc, supply chains are coming back online. End the +400 and you'll see the shortage start dropping.
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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All-In [34100]
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Re: Dollars = Labor
May 16, 2021, 8:35 PM
[ in reply to Dollars = Labor ] |
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The only problem with your equation is that dollars don't signify labor. They signify value. I could sell you a watch, which I had in turn received as a gift, and you could pay me with money you had received as a gift. In that exchange, no labor was involved.
This isn't to say that money doesn't sometimes correlate to labor, but that's only because the particular labor had value.
Which gets to the converse point. Money does not necessarily signify labor, and--conversely--labor doesn't necessarily equate to money. If you perform labor that no one values, you won't be paid for it.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: This is actually infuriating.
May 11, 2021, 10:55 AM
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Socialism always leads to supply problems
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Legend [17245]
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Meat and Poultry processing plants are typically crap jobs.
May 11, 2021, 11:10 AM
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My guess is that few if any on this Board would work in one nor want a family member to work in one.
Immigrants and non-citizens fill many of these jobs. Improved working conditions, better benefits and higher wages would make these jobs more attractive to a broader population of the US workforce.
Of course price of meat would have to increase.
A contributing factor to the low price of the US food supply is the low cost of migrant and immigrant labor.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Meat and Poultry processing plants are typically crap jobs.
May 11, 2021, 1:20 PM
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This is true. However advancement opportunities are vast for those who prove to be competent and reliable.
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