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Hall of Famer [20482]
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Manchin apparently won't back "For the People"...
May 13, 2021, 9:12 AM
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...but he will apparently back the John Lewis Voting Rights act. (H.R.4).
It's about what I thought was going to happen. Biden isn't going to get his sweeping, omnibus, all-things-included voter reform bill. I didn't think he was going to get For the People (I didn't think Manchin or Sinema would sign off on that)...but there was just no way the Dems were going to sit passively on their hands with their thumbs up their butts and wait for the 'Pubs to gerrymander them into extinction again, either. That trick worked once...in 2011. It's 2021, now.
Take a look at what's actually in H.R.4. Especially in regards to redistricting.
It's all they need.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_Voting_Rights_Act
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All-TigerNet [11611]
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How effing racist...
May 13, 2021, 10:34 AM
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A photocopy of the ID must be submitted with the mail in ballot?
You racist ####### ########.
Did I do it right?
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: Manchin apparently won't back "For the People"...
May 13, 2021, 11:18 AM
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All-In [48440]
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Because it's designed that way...
May 13, 2021, 11:56 AM
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but we've had a republican controlled state house for 25 years or so, so I'm not sure why you think it was set up to advantage democrats or that this is an example of it "going both ways."
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Rock Defender [52]
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LOL this right here makes it a nonstarter
May 13, 2021, 11:28 AM
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Hall of Famer [20482]
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Re: LOL this right here makes it a nonstarter
May 13, 2021, 12:49 PM
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They actually weren't shot down for being "unconstitutional", they were picked at a bit a time and over many court cases because various aspects of them were not specifically spelled out or ran afoul of various statutes and rulings.
H.R. 4 specifically spells them out or clarifies those gray areas. Basically a lot of legal eagles went through the old statutes with a fine-tooth comb and straightened things out again. If H.R. 4 is passed, it'll fly. I mean, as a first order of business, aspects of it will of course get challenged in court because that's what happens - we're a litigious society, we sue, all the time! - but basically H.R. 4 was specifically designed to clean up the old statutes after 55+ years of those kind of legal challenges so it's likely going to stand up in court for awhile.
In particular it stops partisan gerrymandering in its tracks, and gerrymandering is particularly pernicious to democracy. The reason for that is simple: because it allows representatives to choose their voters instead of the other way around. What results isn't democracy, it's just the show of it. The end result of a gerrymandered system is fore-ordained. It's a pretend democracy.
The GOP flat-out stole a boatload of House seats in 2010 with Operation REDMAP...and frankly, it's been nothing short of absolute poison to our democracy. Ask John Boehner. The result has been extremists on both sides, because what you get is a bunch of totally safe seats where extremist whack jobs from the fringes of the party win lopsided elections by 50 points - people like Marjorie Taylor Green on one side, and AOC on the other.
People who represent competitive, non-gerrymandered districts - and thus have to worry about representing everybody - tend to be far more sane and moderate. And those are the people who actually solve problems rather than create them.
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: LOL this right here makes it a nonstarter
May 13, 2021, 2:22 PM
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Hall of Famer [20482]
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Re: LOL this right here makes it a nonstarter
May 13, 2021, 3:51 PM
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Sigh. And here's where old T3 raises his head again.
The thing that makes H.R. 4 potentially challenging isn't so much its legality, its getting it passed to begin with. There's zero Republican support for it, so obviously it doesn't pass the 60-vote threshold for beating the filibuster. The question then becomes: do Manchin, Sinema, and several of the other Dem moderates use Reconciliation + the Kamala tiebreaker to force H.R. 4 through the Senate...which is an altogether different proposition, and something Manchin and the moderate wing have not yet indicated they're committed to doing?
H.R. 4, if it's brought before the Senate, won't pop until late summer and won't really become a thing until fall, and that's when we'll see what cards Biden is actually holding.
Forget "For the People". That's dead on arrival. It just doesn't have the votes, period. It's talking head fodder. H.R. 4 - the John Lewis bill - is going to be the actual live issue. And it can definitely have major consequences down the road.
Again, the Dems are going to try...and if this thing gets passed, you'd better believe they've gone through it as carefully as possible to make sure it's as legally bulletproof as possible. The whole point of this bill is to strengthen the 1965 act that's been steadily weakened by Court decisions.
That's not really the issue. The issue is: can the Dems actually pass it?
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: LOL this right here makes it a nonstarter
May 13, 2021, 4:07 PM
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All-In [39020]
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Hall of Famer [20482]
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Re: Uh they can’t use reconciliation to pass this***
May 13, 2021, 5:41 PM
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No, they'd have to waive the filibuster for it. Which is what makes passing it such a push.
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Hall of Famer [20482]
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All-In [39020]
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A softer approach to using the federal government
May 13, 2021, 5:32 PM
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to ensure perpetual power for themselves. Cheered by self described libertarian leaning Quozzel. LOL
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Hall of Famer [20482]
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Re: A softer approach to using the federal government
May 13, 2021, 6:09 PM
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That's what gerrymandering is, man. When you gerrymander a district, you're essentially allowing the representative to pick their voters, ensuring they never have to actual "win" an election again.
The concept of actual "democracy", at that point, is pretty much puppet theatre, since the result is fore-ordained.
Competitive districts are what allow actual democracy to happen.
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