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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: So Biden Flat Out said "trickledown never worked"
Apr 29, 2021, 5:58 AM
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Why should we respond to his foolishness?
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All-In [30804]
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Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 6:05 AM
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If trickle down worked, every warehouse worker at Amazon would be making at least $1000/week for 40hrs work.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 6:41 AM
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No, it proves Bezos is a greedy , egotistical jerk.
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 6:50 AM
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So we should just have an honor system, in so far as not being a greedy jerk? And you agree Amazon should pay taxes?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 6:51 AM
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What do you mean by honor system?
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 7:14 AM
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He’s saying he wants the nanny state to make all decisions for us and also old marble mouff is not to be questioned.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 7:17 AM
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That’s exactly what he’s saying. I just wanted him to say it again. Lol.
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 9:32 AM
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so if a bunch of foxes kept raiding your chicken house, causing you and your local community to go with less food, your response would be, "foxes gotta eat too."?
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CU Medallion [64837]
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I think FBCOOCH may have some real life
Apr 29, 2021, 10:59 AM
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experience with this.
The fox and chicken house example, that is.
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point.
Apr 29, 2021, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point. ] |
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so if a bunch of your neighbors kept stealing your eggs out of the chicken house, causing you and your local community to go with less food, your response would be, "neighbors need eggs too”?
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Oculus Spirit [97666]
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Jeff Bezos makes $42/hr.
Apr 29, 2021, 8:04 AM
[ in reply to Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point. ] |
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It's a salary, but if you break it down, that's his hourly pay. For the purposes of his taxes and the IRS, that's what he EARNS that can be taxed as income. He is income poor so he can pay less capital gains on stock sales, as needed. So even selling his stocks for "income", he pays a much smaller rate. So if Biden raises the capital gains tax to whatever, based on "rich" people with an INCOME over $1M, that has no impact on the Bezos' of the world. That punishes the small business owner who is rich in the eyes of the IRS compared to Bezos. The guy who doesn't have much stock, but makes a very good living running a small business, employs 20-50 people, maybe more. And he earns INCOME of $1 million a year, and pays FAR more taxes than Jeff Bezos or anyone else. As such, there's a huge incentive for those people to shift their income into stocks, to lower their INCOME tax exposure, knowing later when they retire they can sell those stocks on a low retirement income with minimal capital gains. It's the main reason for the inflation in stocks.
Wall Street is the tax haven for everyone these days. It's the world's largest slush fund, if you want to look at it that way. You can add crypto to the list now as well. Anything to transfer income into any type of investment to reep capital gains, lower your taxable income, then sell and get taxed far less. This is the system that has been created due to "trickle down". And honestly, government spending HAS TO BE TRICKLE DOWN, because otherwise it causes inflation, and that's bad for debt and vote-buying, and subsequently reelection. And as long as stocks are a viable incentive to lower tax exposure for the "rich", the market will climb, and climb, and climb.
It's been going on for decades and mouth-breathers just eat up the class warfare rhetoric. And dems toss a bone to them when possible, like Biden is doing now, knowing it makes no difference. That's why they have capital gains rates tied to INCOME. That's a stop-gap to allow the top 1% to play the system. That's the "loophole". Biden can make any capital gains rate he wants to come up with (90%), and create any income cap he wants to, and those with billions in stocks will ALWAYS have a lower income. He could make it $500K, Bezos still isn't impacted. If he made it $80K, Bezos would lower his salary to $70K. Lower your "income" $10K to save billions if you had to sell your stock? Heckuva deal.
The details of this proposal have already been fully leaked, and as we speak accountants are crunching the numbers and seeing what needs to change for minimal impact. I know my own accountant is working on this right now. And I promise there will be adjustments made to ceremonial "salaries" and pay methods to keep things absolutely unchanged for the top .1%.
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Jeff Bezos makes $42/hr.
Apr 29, 2021, 9:29 AM
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I believe that used to once be the strategy during the Eisenhower days, You kept capital gains low and corporate and personal income high so people would reinvest in their own companies, then pay the low capital gains rate when they retire and sell off the business. But I guess that is no longer an option with all the different instruments at a person's disposal to limit their tax liability.
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Hall of Famer [21858]
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Not to split hairs here
Apr 29, 2021, 4:44 PM
[ in reply to Jeff Bezos paying people $12/hr kinda proves his point. ] |
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but Amazon pays people over $12/hr. Average in the SE is pushing 19-22, actually, for new hires. Other positions are pushing 26-30 range (loaders, quality, inventory, etc.). This also doesn't include labor incentives, etc. for exceeding KPIs on the floor...just base.
Maybe janitors and folks, sure. But as far as operators (putters, pickers & packers in particular), they're gobbling up all the labor in their respective markets because they pay more than others.
Why would he pay someone more than what the market value is for their job?
Soon they'll be replace by machines anyways, then what?
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All-TigerNet [13010]
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Re: So Biden Flat Out said "trickledown never worked"
Apr 29, 2021, 7:10 AM
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Biden also said that Hunter is the smartest guy he knows.
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Legend [15730]
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Oh nooo! A politician knocked on the theories of a
Apr 29, 2021, 9:25 AM
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politician from the other party!?! When did THAT become a thing!?!
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Oh nooo! A politician knocked on the theories of a
Apr 29, 2021, 9:30 AM
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so you have nothing to offer to refute this? In chat board vernacular, that counts as a concession.
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Legend [15730]
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Lol. I believe you are correct. I concede.
Apr 29, 2021, 9:48 AM
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I really don't know enough about Trickle Down Economics, nor did I hear Joe Biden's speech. I just thought it was a funny thing to knock right-leaning board members on.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Oh nooo! A politician knocked on the theories of a
Apr 29, 2021, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Oh nooo! A politician knocked on the theories of a ] |
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Haha it’s also funny that you think St Ronnie would have anything to do with today’s Elephant party, and they’d drum him out too
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Legend [15730]
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Rest assured, when I want an opinion on "What Reagan would
Apr 29, 2021, 9:48 AM
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do", you will be the FIRST person I come to.
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Rest assured, when I want an opinion on "What Reagan would
Apr 29, 2021, 9:53 AM
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it is has been our financial model for the last 35 years, and a complete failure when you look at the deficits we have been running as a result. The idea with middle out is that consumers pick the winners and losers, not the government.
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Legend [15730]
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Wow. After reading that, I guess Joe Biden was right.***
Apr 29, 2021, 10:07 AM
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Wow. After reading that, I guess Joe Biden was right.***
Apr 29, 2021, 10:14 AM
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well, it led to incredible growth and technological achievement, but if you are one that cares about deficits, it ultimately created more problems, especially when you consider we have also moved so fast over the last 30 years that it has caused a tremendous amount of anxiety for people trying to keep up, especially those around retirement age. I mean the entire tump movement was kind of fueled by people who felt like they were being left out and left behind.
I am just throwing stuff out there. I mean honestly, for me it was a great thing. I doubt we would have the technology we have today had we not open the floodgates on cheap money.
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Lot o points [155644]
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Nope
Apr 29, 2021, 10:16 AM
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yup, I mentioned that above, but we never figured out how to cut spending without it negatively impacting the eocnomy. I mean you know who would really hate entitlement cuts, Walmart. I bet a sizable portion of their revenue comes from government handouts. So it seems to me the self-perpetuating problem may be more complicated than just lazy people not wanting work cause wages are too low.
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Lot o points [155644]
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Typical massive oversimplification
Apr 29, 2021, 10:23 AM
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I know it’s fun to think about the govt shipping trainloads of greenbacks to Amazon and Wal-mart for nothing, but breaks are transactional in exchange for infrastructure development (store, warehouse, office building construction) and job creation. Some of the exchanges are poorly made, some are beneficial, but they’re all for something.
If you want to talk about breaks stemming from basic creative accounting loopholes, then sure, we probably agree, but that’s a minority of the tax breaks they receive. It’s foolish to think that if you just cut all incentives l, they’ll continue with the same level of build-outs as before.
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Heisman Winner [111396]
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Re: Typical massive oversimplification
Apr 29, 2021, 11:32 AM
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IDK Obed, it seems like trickle-down kind of went like, "Let's all quit our jobs, but keep spending money." And of course, we all know the math never checks out when it comes to the extra revenue created from the growth stimulated by tax cuts, offsetting the tax cuts themselves. I mean nowhere close, like 30 trillion not even close.
It is just a gimme to people who already have too much, sold as sound economic policy. But heh, like It said, I allowed me to live in height of human civilization and witness some of the most rapid and profound technological achievements in modern human history, brought on by this very growth. I guess that makes me lucky. But then again, had I not known about all this cool stuff, I never would have missed it.
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Legend [16226]
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Don't taxpayers subsidize any company or business that
Apr 29, 2021, 12:35 PM
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does not pay an employee enough for a full work week to house, clothe, and feed themselves and their dependents? Not to mention health care. While we may not be transferring cash and funds direct to many companies, we are having to fill in the survival gaps through various programs, tax credits, grants, etc. in order for many businesses to be more profitable, while often simultaneously these companies themselves are not contributing to this support due to structuring no tax liability.
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All-In [34533]
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^^^yep, we dont have a revenue problem.***
Apr 29, 2021, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to Nope ] |
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CU Guru [1381]
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All-In [34533]
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Well, for one, no one gives a #### about SloJoe. Every word
Apr 29, 2021, 10:17 AM
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is a lie.
2. Reagan created the longest expansion of the economy in US history. In his 8 years the average family income rose $12,000...the equivalent of 36,000 today.
3. Biden voted for the Reagan tax cuts
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All-In [46800]
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Even Bush Sr. knew that
Apr 29, 2021, 10:20 AM
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he called it "voodoo economics"
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All-In [31855]
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Bush wasn't talking about the Supply Side...
Apr 29, 2021, 10:41 AM
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economics / Laffer Curve with that comment. He was talking about Reagan's backing of Kemp's plan to cut income taxes by 30% and the impact of that on inflation...which was around 20% annually at the time.
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Hall of Famer [24687]
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Tinkle-on Economics... The Cayman Islands did well.***
Apr 29, 2021, 11:46 AM
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All-In [34100]
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Re: So Biden Flat Out said "trickledown never worked"
Apr 29, 2021, 11:52 AM
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"Something-d-o-o economics. Voodoo economics."
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Hall of Famer [21858]
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Man - I didn't know Xiden even gave a speech last night
Apr 29, 2021, 4:58 PM
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I'll have to read up on it and see what he said - being serious, no troll. Article looks like an opinion piece so won't read that one in particular. But related to the topic...
I like the concept of trickle down economics. I guess your definition of it working has to do with whatever parameters you put in place to define success. Is it purely the wage gap / wealth gap? Or is it that allowing money to circulate through investors creates employment opportunities throughout the country?
In my opinion, the bigger issue with our modern economy is Wall Street skimming too much off the top for Main Street. So it's simply not trickling down b/c they're just trading it back and forth generating profits that never realize or surmount to any improvements for us out here rowing the boat.
I don't think that's a knock on the concept of trickle down economics, though. It's more so a knock on the lack of regulation and the policy influence the Street has had on the Uniparty over the last 30 years.
Employment starts with investment from the private sector. At scale, private companies generate more opportunities for those of us working and generating value in our economy...not the government. The government plays a critical role sure, but its job is to support, not create.
p.s. what's tml?
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