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CU Guru [1536]
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Clemson History Lesson
Sep 6, 2013, 4:04 PM
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Sorry if this is an ignorant post but I was born in '87 and graduated from CU in 2010 so I was not around for the Danny era...I was just wondering if someone could give me a little info on what happened. Of course I love the guy for the wins and getting us on top of the mountain with the NC but just get confused about the mixed feelings I see about DF and the administration and what exactly happened...just a young Tiger that is curious about the past and why he left. I love seeing him around and on the sidelines, just wondering.
GO TIGERS...BEAT STATE!!
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110%er [5282]
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110%er [8208]
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Re: Death Penalty Scare
Sep 6, 2013, 4:21 PM
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The NCAA investigators were camped out a Jervey. Everyone was tired of the bad press, and SMU had just been given the death penalty. Bill Atchley resigned as president the same year citing friction over academics vs athletics.
It may have been a hasty decision, but Danny was not adjusting well to the new era of compliance. It was a dark time, but just think where we'd be now if we had a season or two cancelled. That's a serious tattoo.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Death Penalty Scare
Sep 6, 2013, 4:25 PM
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Well I mean to be honest it seems like we have just gotten back to that here the last few years so it def knocked us down...just think where we would be if it would have gotten swept under the rug like I believe most violations to at the bigger SECheat schools do now...not saying i wish that would have happened but we would def be in the elite within the last 30 years.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson History Lesson
Sep 6, 2013, 4:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson History Lesson ] |
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Just crazy to me to think that we ran off arguably the greatest Clemson coach in history, with plenty of time left in him to possible win more NCs, over him wanting a football dorm built..and the fact that one guy did not want him to seem more powerful. I know ppl have to respect the school's administration but suck it up...the football team makes the money for your school nowdays.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 4:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson History Lesson ] |
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but nothing in those two links answers the OP's question and that 2nd link had to have been written by a chickentech alum.....and I assume everyone's aware that ANYONE can contribute to Wikipedia--coots have tried to rewrite Clemson history on Wikipedia with their own loser slant before.
A simple answer to the question posed by the OP is:
Politics.
Because of his football success and the influence the football program cast over campus, Coach Ford thought he was in a position of power and influence similar to that of Paul "Bear" Bryant at Alabama, Woody Hayes at OhioSt and other very successful coaches. The NCAA was changing the football landscape and there were academicians and BOT members who were not happy with NCAA & ACC sanctions leveled on Clemson. To be honest, Coach Ford was simply competing with SEC schools on a level playing field.......In any event, Coach Ford drew a "line in the sand" on the construction of a new football dorm which he'd already been selling to new recruits. The new president at Clemson, Max Lennon, said no. Coach Ford unfortunately found out that Mr. Lennon was his boss when AD Bobby Robinson, who ALSO worked under Lennon was told to fire Coach Ford. And to compound matters, Ken Hatfield was hired and, probably under instruction from HIS bosses, began the systematic dismantling of Clemson's football program--and trust me, while Hatfield's records his first couple of years at Clemson were exemplary, YOUR GRANDMOTHER could have coached that talent to the same record.
Anyhow, thats what happened. During the couple of weeks following Ford's dismissal, students marched on the presidents home, hundreds--if not thousands--of IPTAY members called their representative, the head of IPTAY, and anybody else they could get on the phone and threatened to leave IPTAY....some did, though most came back. Nobody was happy. None of us like discussing it even today
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Legend [19197]
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Good synopsis. Here are some clippings from that time
Sep 6, 2013, 4:53 PM
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Then for 20+ years the admin decided to distance itself from football. It was a sad business. I am glad those days are over.
GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Good synopsis. Here are some clippings from that time
Sep 6, 2013, 5:01 PM
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Wow- def glad we are past that but sucks to think about being a Tiger...
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Legend [19197]
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It ripped the Clemson family apart. We have only
Sep 6, 2013, 5:04 PM
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recently healed the wounds. Last Saturday night is a testament to a family back together again.
BTW: Max Lennon sux!
Message was edited by: AThomas®
Message was edited by: AThomas®
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: It ripped the Clemson family apart. We have only
Sep 6, 2013, 5:08 PM
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If that is def the case why would Danny move back here and stick around- I mean that's a messed up deal what they did to not only Danny but setting the program back that many years...
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Everyone involved shared some portion of blame
Sep 6, 2013, 5:19 PM
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for what happened.....including Coach Ford.
I'm not being politically correct, just factual.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Everyone involved shared some portion of blame
Sep 6, 2013, 5:22 PM
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I see what you mean being that there were things going on- but are there actually records of the violations or was it just under investigation? I mean did we actually get caught under major violations or just investigated? Most coots talk trash about this to me and I feel like they really have no idea what really happened.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: Everyone involved shared some portion of blame
Sep 6, 2013, 5:43 PM
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As I stated in an earlier post, Coach Ford simply began leveling the playing field as he recruited against SEC schools who were ALL doing the exact same thing.
Yes. We committed major violations. Reported them all to the NCAA and took our punishment. A certain IPTAY "bigwig" who shall remain nameless (although his initials are BC Inabinet) used to hold court at the old Holiday Inn on 123 at the lake after the games where players filed into his room for their "envelope"....the contents varied depending on the type game they'd played....and I'm not telling anything that everyone doesn't already know......its fairly common knowledge......but the crap hit the fan when a Clemson alum in Tennessee "outbid" UT for the services of two players named Cofer and Minor. Later, they both changed their minds and played elsewhere and I don't think either one made a big impact in college football. UT reported us to the NCAA
Hey---when we started to get the talent in, we started to win....impressively. Down in the trenches where games are won and lost, NOBODY wanted to face our guys. They were tough....and a couple of them were kinda mean too!!lol
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 4:55 PM
[ in reply to I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy.... ] |
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That was very helpful..Thanks! Just kind of sucks to think about CU doing that and being like that..I mean that really set us back and just now maybe getting over it...hate to think the the CU "family" that I know was once that divided...
GO TIGERS!
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 5:06 PM
[ in reply to I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy.... ] |
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So let me get this strait- we hired a bad coach (the admin) on purpose to set the football program back because it was overshadowing academics..if that is true that is very sad and I am glad CU had changed for the much better!
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Legend [16186]
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Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 5:35 PM
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I am old. Here is my view.....
Clemson fired Red Parker in 1977 and elevated Coach Pell to head man. Danny was OC for Coach Pell, coached the OL and was young and darn good. WE cheated under Pell. By WE, I mean many backers of the school helped many players get into school, buy clothes, and be regular students. We gave LOTS of players lots of small and not so small benefits in excess of what the rules allowed. What we were doing was par for the course at that time and we were mostly just matching what the big schools in the deep south were doing. But we were johnny come late to the party and our cheating attracted attention.
Pell left us for Florida in 1978 but the pattern established under Coach Pell continued under Coach Ford.
We won the national title in 81 but there was a lot of talk about recruiting irregularities throughout that year. We would play on national TV and Jim Lampley would call us an outlaw school. MEANWHILE, quite a few players were getting sweet deals on used cars, which attracted a lot of attention.
The NCAA investigation attracted a lot of attention. Assistant Coach Willie Anderson was personally cited for illegally inducing kids to sign with us. And we went on MAJOR PROBATION, no TV, no bowls, loss of scholarships in late 1982.
I think the whole Clemson community, including the BOT did not want to ever repeat the negative pr that came with probation and told Coach Ford that if we got into trouble again, heads would roll.
In 86 or 87 there were rumors of minor issues regarding recruiting inducements, tshirts, rides, $50 and the like. We admitted minor problemss and got a hand slap. In 88 and 89 there were again rumors of violations.
(I think some of the rumors were true. I could not swear in court, but I think money changed hands on the day CHester McGlocton signed.)
Against this backdrop, Max Lennon and Coach Ford fueded with Coach Ford always having the fans in his hands and Max Lennon, ever the idiot, failing miserably to deal effectively with Coach Ford. And by that I mean, Danny was a great great football coach and was doing 99.9% of his job PERFECTLY with respect to the rules....he just talked too much and Lennon wanted to be the only guy talking.
Anyway, with politics in the forefront, with an NCAA investigation going on, I THINK LENNON FORCED FORD OUT and that we got off light from the NCAA at least in part because of that. This is highly debatable. Guys who played then swear Coach Ford's later years were marked by high rules compliance and I believe them. But I think McGlocton's family got some money from somewhere.
So Ford was forced to resign and Clemson then wandered in the football wilderness for 20 years.
I almost worship Coach Ford. He had faults, but he was and is a great man. I hate Max Lennon. Lennon was eventually run off from Clemson and then run off as President of a two bit NC college when the faculty revolted.
What I also believe is that Clemson suffered a lot for cheating in the late 70s and early 80s even while we were not doing anything at all that was not perfectly common at Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Alabama, Auburn and the like.
I am terrifically proud of the fact that these days we are ranked in the top 5 in football, the top 15 in football attendance, the top 25 among public universities overall and that we do everything the right way.
But we did get some mud on ourselves in the late 70s and early 80s and Coach Ford was running the show for some of that time, and he was running the show EXACTLY like other coaches at the schools I named.
That's my story.
Harley
((BTW, for the Gamecocks out there, you guys went on major football and basketball probation in the 60s and 70s. The Gamecock AD and Head coach had a slush fund from which he paid the tuition and fees of players who were ineligible to play in football. This resulted in SC forfeiting games, firing the football coach and vacating a title. In Basketball, in the Mike Grosso case SC was similarly embarrassed. I throw this in because many SC fans seem to recall everything about Clemson's troubles and nothing about their own.)
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Member [28]
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Re: Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 5:44 PM
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On the head Harley I remember my dad calling Ford a sacrificial lamb!
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 6:00 PM
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I generally like all the men who wear orange and coach the Tigers. They are almost always "My GUY".
I make an exception for Coach Hatfield. He inherited a top ten program and gave us a losing season and had us at the bottom of the ACC in his 3rd year. He did not know his players. He shifted our recruiting to Arkansas, Texas and Louisiana. He lived out of town and fairly deliberately did not associate with the Clemson family. His last year he had a terrible team but by solid game day coaching and a lot of luck had a good record, even while the program was in terrible shape. He demanded a contract extension and quit when he did not get it. Good riddance. Hatfield went on to a long mediocre run at Rice.
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Member [28]
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Re: Re: Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 6:39 PM
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Hatfield got hired for one of these two reasons.1) the only hc stupid enough to want the job after the way Danny was treated. 2) he was hired with one purpose, tear down what Danny built
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 5:09 PM
[ in reply to I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy.... ] |
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So let me get this strait- we hired a bad coach (the admin) on purpose to set the football program back because it was overshadowing academics..if that is true that is very sad and I am glad CU had changed for the much better!
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy....
Sep 6, 2013, 5:30 PM
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well, Clemson University is first and foremost an academic institution. IMO, the academics needed to get stronger influence in McFadden and they did.....and Vickery became a model to the nation. Even the chickens sent a committee to
Clemson to study Vickery's success rate before building their own institution for athletic/academic enhancement
There are ways to go about doing things...some of our administrators just didn't have a really good grip on that vision then. Its easy to look back and criticize, but, in a sense, Clemson was kind of "feeling" its way along as it made the adjustments to collegiate sports today.
and then there was unc, who for decades have lied and cheated and, for all intents and purposes, not received the sanctions they so richly deserve. All that crap about academics being "first" at unc and the absence of controversy was a lot of hooey----going back to Dean Smith's era.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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20+ years of mediocrity
Sep 6, 2013, 5:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't mean to sound particularly grumpy.... ] |
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Ken Hatfield was not a "bad" coach per se ... he was just not a great hire for Clemson at the time.
Fact is that basically no coach was going to come in to that situation and be successful.
We spiraled into mediocrity and stayed there for a long, long time.
When we ran Coach Ford off, we basically sealed our fate for the next 20 years.
Of course, the (true or not) reasoning behind running Ford off was that the NCAA was poised to bust us. Maybe it was true, or maybe it was an ill-conceived and unnecessary pre-emptive strike.
We'll never really know.
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Orange Blooded [2762]
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Orange Blooded [2831]
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Re: Clemson History Lesson
Sep 6, 2013, 4:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson History Lesson ] |
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From what I remember reading is that Robinson made up the allegations so the NCAA would investigate the football program. Before the NCAA had a chance to clear the program Robinson got Danny to resign. The NCAA later came back and said there were no violations.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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What?
Sep 6, 2013, 4:58 PM
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Ya know, I've heard some whoppers in my time.......that's close to the top
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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All-In [27366]
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I don't think that even makes it to the level of "Hog wash"***
Sep 6, 2013, 6:13 PM
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Commissioner [908]
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Similar for me, I was born in 1983, graduated in 2006
Sep 6, 2013, 4:15 PM
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I've never heard the full story. I think it's a matter of some recruiting tactics that the administration would prefer not to recognize happened. Since it was under his watch, he gets the blame. Clemson completely turned on athletics after football got busted, and it's only appeared to recommit in the last few years.
Correct me if I'm mistaken people.
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Orange Blooded [2438]
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Let's play....the FAMILY FUED!!
Sep 6, 2013, 4:17 PM
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You are certainly not ignorant, but solving the history of Northern Ireland might be an easier project. 
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Let's play....the FAMILY FUED!!
Sep 6, 2013, 4:23 PM
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Haha that is kind of what I figured being that there are prob many different aspects of what happened...but I have heard the story about Clemson kind of turning its back on football and athletics after that and used him as a scapegoat type deal...and it seams as if we are back now I just hate to think that my University would do that being around it in the late 2000s...I mean I have never been part of so much passion and love for a school and its athletics....I think we are doing things the right way now and headed back to the top the right way!
Love being a Tiger!
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Scout Team [173]
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Re: Let's play....the FAMILY FUED!!
Sep 6, 2013, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to Let's play....the FAMILY FUED!! ] |
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Many versions abide. For a fact, Clemson went on probation for boosters paying recruits. The recruits mentioned in the NCAA documents both ended up at Tennessee and neither became a force. Just as a statement of fact, everyone did that. There were many other rumors but the NCAA documents are available to look at on line. What happened next has always been conjecture. Danny constantly pushed for better facilities and a nice football dorm. The administration told him to stop but he persisted. He as a real thorn in their sides. He spoke about it constantly at all of the rubber chicken gatherings. When the second set of violations came up, rumor has it the administration offered up Danny to the NCAA to lessen the penalties. Please remember that the second half is just what has been knocked around in some corners for a long time.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Let's play....the FAMILY FUED!!
Sep 6, 2013, 4:34 PM
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I guess that is just hard for someone my age to grasp given going through the Tommy Bowden years where all we talked about was getting better facilities and improving all of that..I guess it was a different time then but I think the man knew what it was going to take and maybe back then CU wasnt "All In" with the athletics like we are now...??
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Re: Read the Danny Ford book by Larry WIlliams.
Sep 6, 2013, 4:27 PM
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If yall want to read something interesting about Clemson and college sports, read Tates Locke's book, "Caught In The Net"...wow.
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Orange Blooded [4299]
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I was born in 1965
Sep 6, 2013, 4:39 PM
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My recollection of why we kicked Danny out was less related to NCAA stuff and more political. Many large IPTAY supporters wanted him gone due his conservative approach to offense. Even though we had straight 10-2 years, folks were still wanting more. Sounds crazy, I know. Also, Danny wanted things done his way, he bucked the AD and administration. With the talent we had the year after he left, you or I could have gone 10-2 just as easy as Hatfield did it. Then came the wishbone.
Again, this is just my perception of the situation having lived through it in my early 20s. There could easily be more to the story than that, but this is what I recall being the typical chatter surrounding Clemson football.
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Orange Blooded [2762]
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I can vouch for that- Triple option was under scrutiny
Sep 6, 2013, 6:07 PM
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or was at the urinals during halftime...
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Orange Blooded [2061]
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little known fact
Sep 6, 2013, 4:50 PM
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the allegations of late night party involving a bull dog, a goat and de-feathered hen were finally confirmed as being the over active imagination of Monte Kiffin
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All-American [564]
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Tigrjm76 Nailed It
Sep 6, 2013, 4:55 PM
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Tig
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All-American [564]
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Those Were Very Dark Days
Sep 6, 2013, 5:15 PM
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I was in the Dallas airport when I first heard the news of Coach Ford's firing. Heartsick can only describe my reaction. Coach Ford gave us some great football teams and some great memories but in the end university politics destroyed any momentum we had. I'm sure Coach Howard knew the long-term damage our self inflicted wounds would do when he tried to calm the crowd (mob) that day. After two decades we may finally be able to put all that baggage behind us. I hope so. Last weekend was unbelievably special. Now on to the next game with SC State. Go Tigers.
Message was edited by: TGRPWS®
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Those Were Very Dark Days
Sep 6, 2013, 5:20 PM
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Yea I can only imagine but I think its something that a younger Tiger like myself is even tough to read about, but I think it is good to know what CU went though and how far we have come and the fact I truly believe we are doing it the right way bc of it now...GO Tigers..all the way to Pasadena!
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Trainer [35]
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Re: Clemson History Lesson
Sep 6, 2013, 5:31 PM
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May I suggest you read the book,"The Danny Ford years at Clemson."This gives about the best info about what happen.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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