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CU Guru [1982]
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At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 24, 2021, 10:01 PM
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Obviously, that would be to add ND. They will say "no", of course.
If they do, I think we have to do whatever we can to hold the 14 together into whatever the new world is.
There are no other name programs out there for the ACC. West Virginia is not a name program, but we could add them if and only if we have added Notre Dame.
None of the B1G programs would come to the ACC. And there's nothing left after Texas/OU that's worth pursuing in the Big 12.
Perhaps we can do a super-alliance with the B1G, with some agreement on playing games against each other. But we won't be joined together into one conference.
The SEC really holds the cards, and the rest of the conferences - maybe...maybe with the exception of the B1G - don't have many good moves available to them. The Pac-12 is a mess. The Big 12 is about to implode. And the ACC only has the ND thing.
And the B1G, though it is very strong, is in an area of the country that is in demographic decline. I'm actually worried they would come to the ACC to pick us apart, maybe taking FSU or something. As I see it, our most likely future is to remain at 14, and somehow weather the storm.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 24, 2021, 10:24 PM
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I agree with what you are saying, but in regards to Notre Dame, if their answer is "no "then the Commissioner needs to say you are no longer welcome.
After that if it's 14 teams then the League needs to consider whether or not to go after some teams that may not be high profile, or to try to find ways to strength the Conference.
My thinking would be a shift to a North and South divisions with the South consisting of Miami, FSU Clemson, Ga. Tech, Wake Forest, UNC and Duke.
The North would then start with N.C. State, Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech ,Boston College, Pittsburg and Syracuse.
Now if Notre Dame says "yes" then we allow them the chance to persuade whatever team ( within a geographical region) to join and then you can decide to move N.C. State to the South with Notre Dame and whatever team Notre Dame seeks to join the North.
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Legend [15730]
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Yes ND is the key. I don’t see an ultimatum so much as an opportunity.
Jul 24, 2021, 10:39 PM
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I think you have to sell it like this: if this goes to four super conferences, Notre Dame’s status as an independent will start to turn from an asset to a liability. All the schools are dealing with the fact that the landscape ain’t what it used to be and ND should be no different.
SO...commit to joining now and have a say in who else joins, and be a big asset that can be used to potentially get the best schools...or possibly join a weaker conference later.
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CU Guru [1653]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 24, 2021, 10:24 PM
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Why not offer ND, then UCF. They have something like 80,000 students a year in undergrad. It's a huge school with a huge arrogant alumni (like ND). If ND won't come then offer WVU or Cincinnati to round it out. All the schools also have solid BBall and other sports teams.
Your points on the other conferences is spot on.
Would hate to see us go to the SEC super conference if that what it becomes but we have to play the best.
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All-In [25850]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 24, 2021, 10:33 PM
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I sincerely hope we don't join the SEC.
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CU Guru [1982]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 24, 2021, 11:25 PM
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If Clemson thought that the SEC would offer membership, Clemson would leave the ACC in a second. Same with FSU at this point, I think.
The SEC holds all the cards right now. If they want Texas/OU, they can get them. I think the same goes for potentially picking off a few ACC teams, whether that includes Clemson, FSU, VT, Miami, or NC State.
They will not come for Tech unless we were part of a larger package, and I don't see that.
This is why I want ND to accept ACC membership, and then expand to 16 with WV or someone that rounds it out. That's the only move the ACC has. If that doesn't happen - if ND says "no" - then the ACC's only real option is to try and keep the 14 together, which would not be easy if the SEC came after our premier football schools.
If Clemson left for the SEC, then the ACC will start to fall apart obviously. At that point, Tech's only hope would be a B1G bid. I doubt that would happen. If the B1G comes south, they would likely try to go into Florida or Virginia or NC...but it's a small possibility that they want to establish a presence in Atlanta, which we could give them.
My hope: The ACC expands to 16 with ND and one other. Short of that, I'll just hope for the best.
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CU Guru [1273]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 24, 2021, 11:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move... ] |
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ND has a student population of 8,000 (+/-), including graduates. UCF is the largest school in the country. Let's offer, or require, ND to join the ACC in CFB. The heich with UCF.
Go Tigers!!!
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110%er [8514]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 24, 2021, 10:40 PM
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Very good post. If Texas and Ok move to the SEC, the sky has not fallen and would that not make it easier for the ACC to be relatively sure of getting a spot in the football playoffs? The Big 12 would almost be a nonfactor since they would have to add 2 lesser programs just to keep being relevant. The SEC will be a mess because with 2 more power programs in the mix, going undefeated will be a tougher task than it always is. A 14 member ACC is a survivor especially if the league improves in football and regains it's position as the premier basketball conference.
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110%er [7134]
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thats a good point if tExas and Ou join the SEC they're
Jul 26, 2021, 8:57 AM
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chances of making the CFP go down, not up. even if there are 12 teams in the CFP. I'm sure there will be a cap on how many teams can be in the 12 per conference. Whereas if they stayed in the Big 12 they one if not both would be in it every year. In the SEC they'd likely be jockeying with 5 other schools for those 2 or 3 cfp spots.
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Orange Blooded [2848]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 25, 2021, 12:47 AM
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Maybe all of the other conferences and presidents should vote the SEC out of the NCAA and do their own thing.
SEC and money are going to kill this game.
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Let ND Keep Their TV Contract If They Join
Jul 25, 2021, 4:35 AM
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So ND is the key most agree. Since it could be the saving Grace if it joins the ACC I'd let them keep their TV contract with NBC. The ACC still gains by them adding gravitas to the conference. Word it saying any team in the conference can make its own TV deals. ESPN may even like the idea of ND in the conference more than they dislike the NBC aspect. Possibly their games could be carried on NBC and a few on the ACC Network. Let's go after them.
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All-TigerNet [12233]
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Kind of feel for Jim Phillips - he is having to live with
Jul 25, 2021, 7:41 AM
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24 years of ACC decisions made by Swofford and his cronies. That's right - 24 years of Swofford at the helm of the ACC and what do we have to show for it? The ACC being 4th in revenue among the Power 5 conferences despite having multiple recent national champs in Football (Clemson, FSU) and Basketball (UVA, Duke, UNC).
Swofford may have done a few good things for the ACC but for the last 10 years the ACC has needed a ravenous carnivore running things and what we've had is a timid "nice guy" herbivore who was largely a follower (not an innovator) coasting to retirement. All the while the SEC has been crushing the competition on the PR front and established revenue streams that has now put them in a position to essentially take over the NCAA.
Quite frankly, Jim Phillips has a very weak hand when it comes to convincing ND or any other top tier programs to join the ACC. No one in their right mind would leave the SEC or Big 10 to come the ACC right now - they would be taking a serious pay cut and loose their voice among the two conferences best positioned to govern college athletics when the NCAA corpse is finally buried. Seriously - what is Phillips' best sales pitch to prospective members? "Join the ACC - you may not make as much money but at least we have nice weather in about half of the conference footprint..." The only thing Phillips has going for him is his past relationships with Notre Dame and the Big 10. Maybe Smitty is right and the best we can hope for is some kind of partnership with the Big 10 to counter the SEC's influence.
Ultimately though, I think we are about to see affirmation of two time proven truths: 1)"He who has the money (the SEC and Big 10) makes the rules" and 2)"The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must". If the Texas/Oklahoma realignment happens, we are quickly headed towards a Power 2 essentially running college football with the ACC, PAC12, and what's left of the Big 12 being relegated to a "punching bag".
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Orange Blooded [3348]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 25, 2021, 2:56 PM
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What if I were to tell you the ACC could probably land two of the top three largest universities in America, and that they're located within the current footprint of the ACC? Sounds good theoretically anyhow.
1. University of Central Florida - 58,913 students
3. Florida International University - 48,439 students
https://blog.collegevine.com/biggest-colleges-in-the-us/
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Athletic Dir [887]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 25, 2021, 5:39 PM
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I would tell you that neither one of those teams open up a new market for you. Nor to they have brand appeal or rivalries. The SEC has made work with rivalries. WVU has rivals in the ACC. Pitt, VT, UVA.. ND has a national brand that will help command TV revenue.
UCF and FIU has neither. The ACC shouldn't add teams just to get to 16 and that is what UCF or FIU would be, just numbers.
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Orange Blooded [3370]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 25, 2021, 9:37 PM
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You can add USF to that list as well. Like you stated, they don't have wide name recognition outside the state of Florida. Already have two schools there with a large brand that bring major tv coverage and they wouldn't add enough to interest anyone to give the ACC a more lucrative contract.
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All-TigerNet [10844]
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Legend [16209]
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I don't know that expanding is the best course forward.
Jul 25, 2021, 6:43 PM
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14 teams is ideal for a 12-game regular season schedule with 8 conference games and the rest variety. I don't get the whole Super Conference desire, when it comes down to it, from the casual fan's point of view. Did the SEC really improve by adding SCar and Arky other than hitting the magic 12 number from 10? Texas A&M seems to be the one true plus out of the last 4. The league is still dominated by the few originals.
There's no universe where colleges on the East Coast are no longer competitive with teams in the southeast. It just doesn't work that way. Kids aren't all going to have to play in the southeast to get some NIL or go on to a pro future. To me the ACC's best move from here is to keep cool, make sure its current members are in it for the longer haul, and find ways to gain better mileage out of our current assets - i.e. get rid of divisions and let all the programs play each other more often and mix it up.
There is one move that is borderline blasphemy among many of the old schoolers, and that would be to replace Wake Forest with West Virginia, through some kind of shared revenue formula or such where Wake continues to compete in all other sports but goes AAC in football, while West Va joins in all full time. Notre Dame will not have to join a conference unless schools simply boycott scheduling them. Don't care to have them full time anyway - viva la independence. That would give the ACC 16 schools in all sports but only 14 in football, and Wake is still a part of the ACC but won't have to go full tilt on keeping up with the football side. Seems like a win / win and something that would leverage up our revenue for all involved.
Go Tigers.
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Trainer [29]
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Re: I don't know that expanding is the best course forward.
Jul 25, 2021, 7:12 PM
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Kinda like swapping WV w/ a more consistent bottom feeder, how'd you arrive at WF?
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Legend [16209]
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Re: I don't know that expanding is the best course forward.
Jul 25, 2021, 8:55 PM
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I believe Wake struggles with justifying the expenses necessary to carry out their league duties with football and the rest of that school's mission. Wake excels at many other sports, but today's commitment to football is just a different beast. I don't know that they wouldn't appreciate the break from the financial responsibilities that living up to the level of commitment necessary to contribute to the group brings in that arena, what with their smaller endowment and alumni support base.
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Trainer [29]
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Trainer [29]
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Trainer [29]
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All-In [36205]
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In a Super Conference World ND Won't Survive They Gotta Go
Jul 25, 2021, 9:17 PM
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to somebody someday
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Hall of Famer [24629]
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Re: At this point, the ACC only has one attractive move...
Jul 25, 2021, 10:38 PM
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I don't think "weathering the storm" with a bunch of weak sisters is a way to survive and be relevant.
As I stated in my post earlier, CU better be looking out for CU and not the ACC. We have no business spending our time and energy worrying about what the weak ACC is going to do to react to being left behind in the changing landscape. We want to be a part of an elite conference because we are elite. Call or send registered letter to the SEC commish and request an SEC application to join ASAP. The handwriting is on the wall.
IMO, only way ACC stays relevent is to become a basketball conference. CU and FSU leave for the SEC. Acc invites Villanova, Gonzaga, Marquette and Memphis and expands by 2 teams.
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CU Guru [1824]
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^Agree
Jul 26, 2021, 8:32 AM
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Maybe I am wrong but all this talk about the ACC expanding is moot to me. If Clemson stays in the ACC we are done. The conference will be dead if the SEC gets Texas and OK it just won't know it for a few years. Dabo is a wiz at recruiting, but even he can't compete with that. All the great games would be within the SEC so most great players would want to play for those schools and get that exposure for their NIL deals.
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Varsity [202]
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ACC needs to be working to kill 12 team playoff
Jul 26, 2021, 1:50 PM
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With the 12 team playoff, Notre Dame has much less incentive to join any conference, and it allows the SEC to put more than two teams into the playoffs. Kill the 12 team playoff and there’s much more pressure on Notre Dame to join and it disrupts at least part of the SEC‘s plans.
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