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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 9:21 AM
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I was looking at where our last 6 years rank among other 6 year spans since 1980. One could argue that this past 6 years is the best 6 year span since 1980.
The difference between the our most current run is that we have a coach that enjoys coaching at Clemson and he seems to want to be here. After the Barnes and OP runs, they couldn't wait to get out of town. After the Cliff Ellis run, we got put on probation. Also this upcoming year, we might have our most talented team yet!
I would rank our most recent 6 year run as number 2 since 1980. Below are my rankings.
1993 - 1998 - Played the toughest schedule, Sweet 16 run, and probably the funnest collection to watch
2017 - 2022 - Sweet 16 run, record ACC Wins in single season, Beating UNC In Chapel Hill, Played the 2nd toughest schedule
2005 - 2010 - Very solid 6 years. Made the NCAA tourney 4 times, Advanced to ACC tourney final. Losing to a lower seed in the NCAA 3 times really made this span drop in my rankings
1984 - 1989 - On probation after this. Disqualified for me
2017-2022:
- Record - 117-74 61.26%
- NCAA Appearances - 2
- NCAA Tourney Wins - 2
- Average SOS - 7.605
- 20 win seasons - 4 (I am including the shortened covid year where we made the tourney)
2005-2010:
- Record - 134-66 67%
- NCAA Appearances - 4
- NCAA Tourney Wins - 1 (Thanks Brownell)
- Average SOS - 7.157
- 20 win seasons - 5
1993-1998:
- Record - 112-79 58.64%
- NCAA Appearances - 3
- NCAA Tourney Wins - 2
- Average SOS - 8.54
- 20 win seasons - 2
1984-1989: We ended up on probation after this run
- Record - 119-69 63.3%
- NCAA Appearances - 3
- NCAA Tourney Wins - 3
- Average SOS - 5.9
- 20 win seasons - 2
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Recruit [93]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 9:31 AM
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One can make the argument that Brad is the best basketball coach in Clemson history. We really won’t do any better. It is what it is when football is king.
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CU Guru [1895]
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Ah yes, aim low!
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May 11, 2023, 9:37 AM
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That's always a formula for success.
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Orange Blooded [3383]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history ] |
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The win in Chapel Hill was against a 8-8 overall 1-4 in the ACC and had lost three in a row before Clemson came to town. It also took overtime to beat the tarheels worst team in decades.
The six year period that you have as our best under CBB, Clemson did not win 20 or more games 4 times. The COVID year Clemson was 16-8 and playing the semi-final game in the ACC Tournament when it all screeched to a halt.
As for Cliff Ellis, he is and was the best basketball coach to ever come to Clemson. Yes, Clemson was put on probation but North Carolina’s no classes for athletes was swept under the rug.
If Cliff would have been given 13 more years we would not be talking about a basketball program with no tradition. And he wanted to retire from Clemson.
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110%er [5483]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 10:03 AM
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The Clemson probation under Ellis stemmed from a question over a transcript for Wayne Buckingham that involved one high school class. Clemson vigorously argued that the grade and class were legitimate and continued to play Buckingham, even in the tournament.
This angered the NCAA and Clemson was hit with an egregious probation and forfeiture of games in the tournament. Anyone who followed the case closely knows it was complete BS. I even remember the normally reserved Jim Phillips railing on how this whole case was without merit.
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All-In [44048]
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Cliff Ellis has had NCAA issues everywhere he’s been.
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May 11, 2023, 10:41 AM
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Let’s not act like the issue at Clemson was an outlier.
The violations were pretty significant for the NCAA to vacate our entire Sweet 16 run in 1990.
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110%er [5483]
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Re: Cliff Ellis has had NCAA issues everywhere he’s been.
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May 11, 2023, 10:56 AM
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I followed the investigation closely back then and no it was not significant but rather a terrible injustice to the school and most of all Wayne Buckingham.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Attempting to counter a factual post with your opinions isn’t the way to win an argument.
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May 11, 2023, 11:56 AM
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I wouldn’t take advice on winning arguments from someone who has never won an argument. HTH
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Walk-On [101]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history ] |
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Um, as a student, I celebrated Clemson winning the ACC and regularly going to NCAA. If you think you could argue that Brad is better than that, then I guess you might think a recent election was stolen. It's a fantasy land - Brad is a good coach, the sky is green, and Putin is a swell fellow.
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Orange Blooded [2480]
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Lol another Brownell Bro. Btw… where are you getting 2nd toughest schedule?
May 11, 2023, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history ] |
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What is that referring to? We notoriously have easy schedules and this past season was arguably the easiest ACC slate anyone has ever had.
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CU Medallion [65456]
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All you Brown-L pumpers seem to want to pick just select
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May 11, 2023, 9:43 AM
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portions of the turd to polish. No matter how you break it up, the grand total still comes to 3 NCAA Tourney appearances in 13 years.
I can play the "pick and choose" game as well. In our last ONE game, we got beat by a team that had no business even staying in a game with a good Power Five team, much less one that was whining to the heavens about being snubbed by the NCAA Tournament.
If Brown-L were to be fired tomorrow, he could NEVER complain about not being given a fair shot. I will agree with you on one thing, Clemson must not really "care" about basketball. Because, if we did, Brad Brownell would have been fired several years ago. And all the turd polishing in the world will never change that fact.
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110%er [5482]
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Re: All you Brown-L pumpers seem to want to pick just select
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May 11, 2023, 9:46 AM
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Well said. Fire Brad. Away with constant mediocrity.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Re: All you Brown-L pumpers seem to want to pick just select
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May 11, 2023, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to All you Brown-L pumpers seem to want to pick just select ] |
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Agreed. The apologist kill me. I keep reading for a great laugh. Brownell loves being here because he gets paid very well for average work. Comparing certain years is misleading as well as far as the ACC. One must be very young to think the ACC is close to what it once was.
ACC basketball was at one time what SEC football is today.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: All you Brown-L pumpers seem to want to pick just select
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May 11, 2023, 12:05 PM
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I used data since 1980. I am using strength of schedule that is on the sports reference site. Of all the 6 year spans that I listed, our most recent one was the second toughest schedule.
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Legend [18790]
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Oculus Spirit [80342]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 9:53 AM
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Prior to the 2022-23 season....this is going to be our most talented team yet!
Now prior to 2023-24....this is going to be our most talented team yet!
I love how you Brownell Bros. try to count that play in game as a NCAA tournament win.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 10:00 AM
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Lol. It was a win in the NCAA tournament no matter how much you want to minimize it.
Brownell beat a 12 seed in the NCAA tournament
Purnell lost to a 12 seed, a 9 seed, 10 seed
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 10:21 AM
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Why are you bringing Purnell into it? Brownell won a play in game with OP players.
Brownell lost to Oakland and Morehead State in a first round NIT game at home.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 10:27 AM
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Yes we did. Those were bad losses.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 9:54 AM
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If only he had been here just those 6 seasons.
If only the program was on an upward trajectory since the first of those 6 seasons you selected.
If only he wasn’t putting his most talented teams on the court yet getting the same lack of results.
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 9:54 AM
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What exactly is the significance of 6 years? Might that have been chosen in order to make one coach's time frame seem better than the other 6 year runs?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 10:07 AM
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Well it was the most recent run we are on, so most relevant
It's when we got the facility upgrades which
I believe is a turning point in our program
It's basically the halfway point of his tenure.
You do realize Clemson has never had any sustained success. It's not going to be much different if we do 8 years or 10 years
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All-In [44048]
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Legend [16935]
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Re: Oh you mean like how Dabo apologists refer to the last decade
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May 11, 2023, 10:49 AM
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HAHAHA!!!!!!!! How many championships has Brad won.
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Oculus Spirit [80342]
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Not even an nit championship. lol***
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May 11, 2023, 11:30 AM
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Legend [19607]
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How quickly we forget
May 11, 2023, 4:40 PM
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that World Championship a few years back.  ">
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All-In [31310]
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Re: Oh you mean like how Dabo apologists refer to the last decade
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May 11, 2023, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to Oh you mean like how Dabo apologists refer to the last decade ] |
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Dabo does not need apologist. If 3 losses a season causes people to want a change in coaches they need to find another team. He has a pass for a good while with myself.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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All-In [44048]
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The most recent two years constitute the new normal.***
May 12, 2023, 11:41 AM
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: Oh you mean like how Dabo apologists refer to the last decade
May 11, 2023, 3:14 PM
[ in reply to Oh you mean like how Dabo apologists refer to the last decade ] |
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Not really - it makes some sense to compare decades. It would be more like if someone decided to compare the last 7 years of the football program with other 7 year periods simply because the last 7 years would begin with the first trip to playoffs. This "7 year period" would make this time frame look comparatively better than if they chose to compare any other time frame.
Of course, when comparing the football program, even the last 2 years would likely compare favorably with most other 2 year periods with the exception of other Dabo or Ford back-to-back seasons!
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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We're no longer cultists? #### I miss being in a cult
May 11, 2023, 3:41 PM
[ in reply to Oh you mean like how Dabo apologists refer to the last decade ] |
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So we've been downgraded from cultists to apologists? When a coach takes us to the heights Coach Swinney has, you get the benefit of the doubt when you go freaking 21-6, in your "down/rebuilding" years.
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Legend [16256]
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I would say that Brad would trade his left nut for the level
May 11, 2023, 3:49 PM
[ in reply to Oh you mean like how Dabo apologists refer to the last decade ] |
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of success that Dabo has had these past two seasons - Top 15 final rankings, an ACC Championship, Orange Bowl berth (equivalent to at least a Sweet 16), Top 10 recruiting classes - except Brad's fat and happy enough with the bank he's pocketing without having to produce anything of substance to have to make that kind of sacrifice.
Hate on, coot.
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All-In [40767]
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Your “good enough” mentality
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May 11, 2023, 10:43 AM
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is exactly what is holding Clemson basketball back right now.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Your “good enough” mentality
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May 11, 2023, 10:45 AM
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I have stated my opinion on the program and which direction we should go many times. You have no clue what my views are.
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Walk-On [101]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
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May 11, 2023, 10:49 AM
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Why should we disregard 7 years? How did you come up with 6 years? That's not the typical "round" number like 5? Could you perhaps be cherry picking to make your argument better? I'm not a fantasy guy. Coaches are judged by their entire lousy tenure. But, I don't get the munchies every other day either; maybe that would help me see your post as something better than toilet paper.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
May 11, 2023, 11:46 AM
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Nobody is disregarding the first 7 years.
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Legend [16256]
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The last 6 years Brad has had an average 40th ranked
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May 11, 2023, 11:23 AM
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recruiting class and finished these seasons with an average 75th-ranked program based on the results on the court. That includes our Sweet 16 year. That is an abysmal underperformance playing out over your supposed best 6 years since 1980.
Let me repeat this for the hard of hearing: Brad turns top 40 talent into 75th-ranked results. Consistently. You should feel for all those kids he lets down with his lackluster coaching instead of trying to justify his continued presence at the helm keeping them down.
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Orange Blooded [3945]
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Re: The last 6 years Brad has had an average 40th ranked
May 11, 2023, 3:35 PM
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Slam Dunk!
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All-In [40100]
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3 out of thirteen years making it to the NCAAT!
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May 11, 2023, 11:27 AM
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Ahhh, that’s so good!!!
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All-In [38095]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
May 11, 2023, 12:04 PM
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You're obviously trying to make a point here... the problem is we all know it. You also don't know why we were put on probation. Get some unbiased facts and try again.
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All-In [44048]
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We were put on probation because we broke the rules.
May 12, 2023, 11:43 AM
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The same reason why we were put on probation in football in the 80s.
You can claim unfairness or conspiracy all you want, but the truth is that rules were broken and the violations were well-documented. Thankfully, we have avoided NCAA sanctions since then.
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110%er [7930]
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Isn't this kinda like uncle Joe claiming this is the best
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May 11, 2023, 12:28 PM
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economy ever?
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All-In [38095]
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Re: Isn't this kinda like uncle Joe claiming this is the best
May 11, 2023, 12:31 PM
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Hahahahahahaha.... Well if you compare it to the 4 years under Jimmy Carter...
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CU Guru [1893]
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I would enjoy coaching at Clemson and want to be there too.
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May 11, 2023, 2:43 PM
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If I was grossly overpaid for the results I produced and had zero accountability or expectations.
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Orange Blooded [3945]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
May 11, 2023, 3:26 PM
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By most talented team yet you mean Brownell's most talented team yet? Certainly nowhere close to say our team with Elden Campbell and Dale Davis. PJ Hall is a great player but who knows how we will equate to the NBA. Greg Buckner was certainly well ahead of him as a junior.
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All-In [44048]
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How was Buckner well ahead of PJ as a junior?
May 12, 2023, 11:52 AM
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As a junior at Clemson, Greg Buckner averaged 15.6 points per game, 4.5 rebounds per game, 1.9 assists per game, and 1.1 steals per game. He shot .483 from the field, .708 from the free throw line, and .315 from three. He did this in 32.5 minutes per game.
PJ Hall averaged 15.3 points per game, 5.7 rebounds per game, 1.0 assists per game, and 1.1 blocks per game. He shot .535 from the field, .786 from the free throw line, and .398 from three. He did this in 24.6 minutes per game.
As you can see, PJ shot better from the field, from the three point line, and from the free throw line. On a per 40 minute basis, PJ averaged 24.9 points and 9.2 rebounds per game, compared to Buckner's 19.3 points per game and 5.6 rebounds per game.
Again, how do you figure that Greg Buckner was "certainly well ahead" of PJ Hall as a junior? I don't see any support for that notion whatsoever.
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All-TigerNet [13487]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
May 12, 2023, 12:07 PM
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So, your takeaway is we should be happy with where we are and who we have as a coach and stop complaining about wanting more and about what we don't have. Just revel in missing the Top 35 end of season AP rankings in 12 of 13 years and 10 of 13 NCAATs.
I guess if we all accept this as the best we can hope for then we really don't need a basketball board any longer.
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110%er [5395]
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Re: Last 6 year results compared to Tiger Basketball history
May 12, 2023, 3:34 PM
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Clemson football and basketball were not fun to watch this past season. As a fan, you never knew which team was going to show up. After the bowl game blowout, Dabo fired Streeter and hired Riley. After the NIT loss, I asked which assistant Brad was going to fire. I am not aware of any basketball personnel changes. I do not know historically how the 6 year spans of Clemson Men’s basketball compare. I do know that there were some years that I really enjoyed watching basketball.
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